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Thread: BYU may get Big 12 invite

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by seacatfan View Post
    Um...aren't GU fans constantly talking about how they need to get out of the WCC and into a better conference?
    Yeah, but Bart has never been in that group.
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    If it happens, whether it's football only or all sports...I think BYU would get crushed in the Big 12 in football. Their program isn't remotely as good as TCU was when they moved up to the Big 12, and it still took the Frogs several years to make the adjustment to the higher level. BYU's ceiling would be middle of the pack in the Big 12 I think.

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    One big problem I see with BYU going to the Big XII, is the Texas Longhorns. While I would agree, that BYU will struggle to compete against the top tier of the Big XII in football and basketball, it is my understanding the UT gets the lion's share of the TV revenues regardless. This is the very reason programs left the Big XII some years back. So unless UT is willing to give up a little bit of the pie, it may be a financial negative for BYU to "share" their football revenues. And lets not forget, football is what pays the bills in these conferences.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by hooter73 View Post
    No one is surprised. I doubt they have much love to give the WCC on their way out either. Kinda a "bye, thanks for... well, bye!"

    The WCC; same as it ever was.
    As somebody who "grew up" in the PNW, finished high school in Texas, and has lived in Provo for the last six (and has had MBB season tickets for those six years), let me provide my perspective:

    - I am obviously excited over the possibility of BYU being invited to join the Big 12.
    - While I hope we are invited in all sports, I will really miss the WCC competition, destinations and relative proximity to Provo.
    - The WCC has been a great partner. The conference and member institutions took us in when we were in a very difficult situation. BYU fans recognize this, and are very appreciative of it.
    - When we joined the WCC, I do not think any of us anticipated dominating the conference, especially Gonzaga. That being said, I also don't think we expected lose some of the games we have lost which speaks to either how dangerous WCC teams can be or how bad we can be when not motivated (not sure which).
    - I have great respect for Gonazaga as an institution, for the basketball program and for the fans.
    - I appreciated very much when the Gonzaga administration took a stance and asked the students not to make a mockery of our religion. I fully anticipate that Big 12 schools, students and administration, will not show the same "courage" necessary to take such a stance.
    - While I have not attended a game in the Kennel, I have had very enjoyable conversations with your fans in the Marriott Center in Provo. I hope they also enjoyed the experience.
    - Should we leave the WCC, I too hope we can continue a tradition of playing Gonzaga.
    - As to those who dislike our fans, what can I say? There are a few bad apples in every bunch. This is certainly true for BYU fans and the LDS Church as well. Just don't be close minded to everyone you meet because of this.

    In conclusion, whether we stay or go, I hope your program and the conference continues to progress and make waves on the national stage. I personally cheer for Gonzaga for all but the 2 or 3 times a year they play BYU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    There is nothing in that article that indicates they are contemplating anything but "All Sports" in with the Big 12.

    The possibility of a football only thing didn't come up and the A.D. was blathering about the difficulty in getting "Big 5" games for all their sports.

    WCC wasn't even mentioned.

    They're gone the second that someone says they're allowed in.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    There is nothing in that article that indicates they are contemplating anything but "All Sports" in with the Big 12.

    The possibility of a football only thing didn't come up and the A.D. was blathering about the difficulty in getting "Big 5" games for all their sports.

    WCC wasn't even mentioned.

    They're gone the second that someone says they're allowed in.
    Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
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    Local message boards are saying UT and Governor Abbott are making a push for Houston, with UT threatening to leave the XII if BYU is selected over Houston. I also read that Oklahoma wants Cincinnati. My prediction is they are NOT at the top of the list, but they're in if the expansion is 4 teams. Unless you're a Texas or an Oklahoma with numerous national championships, P5 invites come when a team is winning, and BYU hasn't been winning.

    EDIT: Here's what I'm reading from:

    "Another hiccup just came this morning: Looks like Texas (the state and the school) is making a power play to get Houston invited. If Houston isn't invited, UT will leave the Big12. This is all being arranged by the governor. On top of that, a records request by Fox unearthed Big12 documents that state Memphis and Cincinnati are ahead of BYU-Provo in the pecking order (despite the prognostications of the sportswriters in this cherry-picked list).

    So in summary, Houston is definitely first in due to political maneuvering (ironic, isn't it, Cougar fans?). Second is either Memphis or Cincinnati. Fourth is BYU-P.

    If the Big12 expands by 4, BYU-P is in! If they expand by 2, looks like not." - http://www.deseretnews.com/user/comm...expansion.html

    Having grown up around BYU fans, the history is always the same: lots of drum-beating and hype, following by total disappoint.

  9. #59

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    A few things. First, I personally don't know any BYU fans who have anything but good feelings about the WCC. I would love to get BYU into the Big12 as a full participant. But if that didn't happen, and we ended up football-only, staying in the WCC wouldn't be a bitter pill to swallow, at all. You folks have treated us well - really welcomed us. I was almost to the point of giving up on BYU sports, towards the end of our time in the MWC. The conference was incompetently run; there was resentment all through the conference for BYU (for a variety of reasons - a few of which we probably deserved; most of which, we didn't); and a good chunk of the games were not being televised. The feeling in the WCC has been completely different. There is mutual respect here. And there are already a few decent rivalries (especially BYU-Gonzaga). With time, those would only improve. And, what's even better, with those rivalries, there (at least so far) hasn't been the nasty, hypocritical, anti-religious sentiment that BYU found in nearly every opposing gym in the MWC.

    Even if we end up leaving for the Big12, I hope we'll keep the series going with at least Gonzaga.

    As for the previous comment from zagdontzig, are you really using reader comments from an article by the Deseret News as a basis for what might really be happening in the expansion situation? Unless I have missed something (and as closely as I've been following this process, I don't believe I have), there has been nothing said that is even close to, "If Houston isn't invited, Texas is leaving." When I read that in your post, my heart sunk. It's a much, much stronger statement than anything I had heard, to date. And it would be a real game changer.

    This is what the Texas President (Greg Fenves) actually said: "As we look at opportunities for Big 12 expansion, I support considering [Houston] for the conference. UH is a huge asset for Texas." That clearly doesn't even get within shouting distance of, "If Houston isn't invited, Texas is leaving."

    Anyway, back to the first point (I actually registered here this week to be able to make this point), whether we stay or leave, you and your conference have nothing but respect from this BYU fan. And I believe that places me firmly among the majority.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by DomCasual View Post
    A few things. First, I personally don't know any BYU fans who have anything but good feelings about the WCC. I would love to get BYU into the Big12 as a full participant. But if that didn't happen, and we ended up football-only, staying in the WCC wouldn't be a bitter pill to swallow, at all. You folks have treated us well - really welcomed us. I was almost to the point of giving up on BYU sports, towards the end of our time in the MWC. The conference was incompetently run; there was resentment all through the conference for BYU (for a variety of reasons - a few of which we probably deserved; most of which, we didn't); and a good chunk of the games were not being televised. The feeling in the WCC has been completely different. There is mutual respect here. And there are already a few decent rivalries (especially BYU-Gonzaga). With time, those would only improve. And, what's even better, with those rivalries, there (at least so far) hasn't been the nasty, hypocritical, anti-religious sentiment that BYU found in nearly every opposing gym in the MWC.

    Even if we end up leaving for the Big12, I hope we'll keep the series going with at least Gonzaga.

    As for the previous comment from zagdontzig, are you really using reader comments from an article by the Deseret News as a basis for what might really be happening in the expansion situation? Unless I have missed something (and as closely as I've been following this process, I don't believe I have), there has been nothing said that is even close to, "If Houston isn't invited, Texas is leaving." When I read that in your post, my heart sunk. It's a much, much stronger statement than anything I had heard, to date. And it would be a real game changer.

    This is what the Texas President (Greg Fenves) actually said: "As we look at opportunities for Big 12 expansion, I support considering [Houston] for the conference. UH is a huge asset for Texas." That clearly doesn't even get within shouting distance of, "If Houston isn't invited, Texas is leaving."

    Anyway, back to the first point (I actually registered here this week to be able to make this point), whether we stay or leave, you and your conference have nothing but respect from this BYU fan. And I believe that places me firmly among the majority.
    If I was a BYU fan, I wouldn't want to be in the WCC...even if the Big 12 only took football. But the respect is appreciated. I would personally be in favor of BYU, SMU, and Gonzaga finding a place somewhere else, but that won't happen for now. I actually think BYU ramped up their recruiting in a way that shows they are serious about basketball. SMU has a good team, right now...but they aren't recruiting nearly as well as BYU or Gonzaga, and they needed a down year from Gonzaga and a bad schedule to do what they did. Eventually, they are going to have a hard time keeping up.

    The WCC is going to be a 1-2 race between Gonzaga and BYU in the coming years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Crazy View Post
    If I was a BYU fan, I wouldn't want to be in the WCC...even if the Big 12 only took football. But the respect is appreciated. I would personally be in favor of BYU, SMU, and Gonzaga finding a place somewhere else, but that won't happen for now. I actually think BYU ramped up their recruiting in a way that shows they are serious about basketball. SMU has a good team, right now...but they aren't recruiting nearly as well as BYU or Gonzaga, and they needed a down year from Gonzaga and a bad schedule to do what they did. Eventually, they are going to have a hard time keeping up.

    The WCC is going to be a 1-2 race between Gonzaga and BYU in the coming years.
    You have no credibility talking about the WCC if you repeatedly say "SMU" instead of "SMC".

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    Quote Originally Posted by soccerdud View Post
    You have no credibility talking about the WCC if you repeatedly say "SMU" instead of "SMC".
    Typo.

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    A good question might be, why isn't SMU - Southern Methodist University - being mentioned as a Big 12 candidate along with the Univ of Houston.

    Seems like a natural fit if the football team evolves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    Local message boards are saying UT and Governor Abbott are making a push for Houston, with UT threatening to leave the XII if BYU is selected over Houston. I also read that Oklahoma wants Cincinnati. My prediction is they are NOT at the top of the list, but they're in if the expansion is 4 teams. Unless you're a Texas or an Oklahoma with numerous national championships, P5 invites come when a team is winning, and BYU hasn't been winning.

    EDIT: Here's what I'm reading from:

    "Another hiccup just came this morning: Looks like Texas (the state and the school) is making a power play to get Houston invited. If Houston isn't invited, UT will leave the Big12. This is all being arranged by the governor. On top of that, a records request by Fox unearthed Big12 documents that state Memphis and Cincinnati are ahead of BYU-Provo in the pecking order (despite the prognostications of the sportswriters in this cherry-picked list).

    So in summary, Houston is definitely first in due to political maneuvering (ironic, isn't it, Cougar fans?). Second is either Memphis or Cincinnati. Fourth is BYU-P.

    If the Big12 expands by 4, BYU-P is in! If they expand by 2, looks like not." - http://www.deseretnews.com/user/comm...expansion.html

    Having grown up around BYU fans, the history is always the same: lots of drum-beating and hype, following by total disappoint.
    Local Media Morons are saying that this all about the money and any invite will be good for 10 years only because the Big 12 TV deal only lasts for 10 more years. They are also saying that the applications are being viewed as sort of a reverse auction (how little $ will you want). Several of these school are only making around 5m a year now so doubling that would be a bonus. Currently, Big 12 members are taking in 30 m a year. With that $ in mind and the geography too, it could easily be Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, and UConn that are added leaving BYU out in cold. Be prepared for the unexpected, after all, it is the Big 12 we're talking about..
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    A good question might be, why isn't SMU - Southern Methodist University - being mentioned as a Big 12 candidate along with the Univ of Houston.

    Seems like a natural fit if the football team evolves.
    Not even on the radar. Stadium too small, past problems too pervasive. Not gonna happen bad feelings all around.
    Birddog

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birddog View Post
    Not even on the radar. Stadium too small, past problems too pervasive. Not gonna happen bad feelings all around.
    Thanks.

    I suppose that makes sense. Although, it is amazing to me that a major market like Dallas isn't a bigger draw, but I'm not there and don't understand the undercurrent in Big 12 country the way you do.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    Thanks.

    I suppose that makes sense. Although, it is amazing to me that a major market like Dallas isn't a bigger draw, but I'm not there and don't understand the undercurrent in Big 12 country the way you do.
    Dixie I believe TCU is in Ft. Worth so SMU isn't needed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogozags View Post
    Dixie I believe TCU is in Ft. Worth so SMU isn't needed
    Which is kind of funny Bc SMU and TCU used to be in Big 8 together I believe. No way for SMU anymore though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogozags View Post
    Dixie I believe TCU is in Ft. Worth so SMU isn't needed
    I had forgotten that. Yes, that sounds right. TCU is a power, and it is a power even though it's a small school IIRC.

    I guess there's no going back to the glory days of Eric Dickerson, no classes, good pay ...at least at SMU.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzagafan62 View Post
    Which is kind of funny Bc SMU and TCU used to be in Big 8 together I believe. No way for SMU anymore though.
    They were never in the Big 8, they were long time members of the Southwest Conference which was for most of it's history just Texas schools and Arkansas. The SW Conf was Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, SMU, TCU, Baylor, Rice and Ark. When Ark bolted in the early 90's Houston took their place.

    In the mid 90's the Big 12 was formed and one of the intents was to form a stronger conference with state schools. Ann Richards then Gov of Tex would not hear of any move by Texas without including Baylor. She had powerful political allies and Texas had to abide in order to join the Big 12. The rest of the schools had to find some crumbs to survive. Most of the charter members of the Big 12 didn't want Baylor which was mostly a doormat in all sports, but had to accept them to get Texas. Baylor further mucked things up when they had their basketball scandal and now some 10 years later their sexual abuse scandal. UT has been a pain in the ass to the Big 12 with their outsized ego. They are the reason that Nebraska and Texas A&M bolted. Mizzou always thought they were above the B12 , not sure what Colorado was thinking when they left, it was a lateral move at best IMO. Baylor is probably gonna get a good spanking by the B12 before this mess is over.
    Birddog

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    Birddog--I'm pretty sure Houston and Arkansas were in the SWC together at some point.

    As far as Texas being a PITA to the rest of the Big 12, I can't believe Oklahoma has been willing to put up with it. Their football tradition is nearly as rich as UT's. They don't have a population nearly as big as the state of Texas, but a big athletic department and rabid fanbase. Good basketball off and on as well. Just seems hard to believe that Okie and Nebraska let Texas just take over their conference. Nebraska obviously got fed up and left.


    edited--Looked it up, Houston joined the SWC in all sports except football and basketball in '72, was participating in all sports by the mid 70's. Arkansas left in '91, so a decent overlap of the two. Houston was definitely a member during the Phi Slamma Jamma days.

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    TCU had to take a circuitous route to rejoin many of their former conference mates (WAC, Mountain West, maybe C-USA briefly?). Houston, SMU and Rice have also bounced around but are still stuck in smaller conferences. I never quite understood why Baylor was the chosen one that got to tag along with the bigger state schools and those other 4 didn't. Baylor eventually got good at football and men's and women's bball, but for many years they were bad at everything.

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    Connecticut fans have to be sweating bullets hoping they can get out of the lame AAC this time. Their football program isn't very appealing, but men's and women's basketball sure bring a lot to the table.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by seacatfan View Post
    TCU had to take a circuitous route to rejoin many of their former conference mates (WAC, Mountain West, maybe C-USA briefly?). Houston, SMU and Rice have also bounced around but are still stuck in smaller conferences. I never quite understood why Baylor was the chosen one that got to tag along with the bigger state schools and those other 4 didn't. Baylor eventually got good at football and men's and women's bball, but for many years they were bad at everything.
    Baylor has a huge lobby in Texas political circles, they are the flagship Baptist University ala BYU to Mormons. Baylor is probably only a little bit behind Texas and A&M in Texas political clout. I stand corrected about Houston, I was going by my occasionally faulty memory.
    Birddog

    Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DomCasual View Post
    A few things. First, I personally don't know any BYU fans who have anything but good feelings about the WCC. I would love to get BYU into the Big12 as a full participant. But if that didn't happen, and we ended up football-only, staying in the WCC wouldn't be a bitter pill to swallow, at all. You folks have treated us well - really welcomed us. I was almost to the point of giving up on BYU sports, towards the end of our time in the MWC. The conference was incompetently run; there was resentment all through the conference for BYU (for a variety of reasons - a few of which we probably deserved; most of which, we didn't); and a good chunk of the games were not being televised. The feeling in the WCC has been completely different. There is mutual respect here. And there are already a few decent rivalries (especially BYU-Gonzaga). With time, those would only improve. And, what's even better, with those rivalries, there (at least so far) hasn't been the nasty, hypocritical, anti-religious sentiment that BYU found in nearly every opposing gym in the MWC.

    Even if we end up leaving for the Big12, I hope we'll keep the series going with at least Gonzaga.

    As for the previous comment from zagdontzig, are you really using reader comments from an article by the Deseret News as a basis for what might really be happening in the expansion situation? Unless I have missed something (and as closely as I've been following this process, I don't believe I have), there has been nothing said that is even close to, "If Houston isn't invited, Texas is leaving." When I read that in your post, my heart sunk. It's a much, much stronger statement than anything I had heard, to date. And it would be a real game changer.

    This is what the Texas President (Greg Fenves) actually said: "As we look at opportunities for Big 12 expansion, I support considering [Houston] for the conference. UH is a huge asset for Texas." That clearly doesn't even get within shouting distance of, "If Houston isn't invited, Texas is leaving."

    Anyway, back to the first point (I actually registered here this week to be able to make this point), whether we stay or leave, you and your conference have nothing but respect from this BYU fan. And I believe that places me firmly among the majority.
    Thanks for joining in Dom,
    please come back and contribute often,
    with a much appreciated angle on the Zags

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