Next Year's TEAM

[hondo]

1 season, I believe.

[Zaglaw]

Hondo is correct. My understanding is that she has 1 year of eligibility. So, we have her for just next year.

[sylean]

Hondo is correct. My understanding is that she has 1 year of eligibility. So, we have her for just next year.

yes, I think that is right....the NCAA/WCC did poorly on this decision...punished the young student for changing her mind and made her sit out extra long time imo....

I wonder about Chandler....is she really a red shirt soph?

[ZagDad84]

yes, I think that is right....the NCAA/WCC did poorly on this decision...punished the young student for changing her mind and made her sit out extra long time imo....

I wonder about Chandler....is she really a red shirt soph?

I don't think the WCC has any say in this manner. The real question is why GU offered a 2-year scholarship to a person who can play only one year. Unless Mak screwed up with transfer credits or did not do something she needed to or was responsible for, the most likely error falls on GU's compliance officer. It is unlikely that any of us will know the real story.

ZagDad

[hondo]

I saw Mak in the 3 point shooting contest before the intersquad game last Oct. and I would have given her 2 years of scholarship for one year of play based on here shooting in that contest. It was my understanding that many felt that Mak may have been allowed to play more than 1 season when she transferred in.

[ZagDad84]

I saw Mak in the 3 point shooting contest before the intersquad game last Oct. and I would have given her 2 years of scholarship for one year of play based on here shooting in that contest. It was my understanding that many felt that Mak may have been allowed to play more than 1 season when she transferred in.

I saw her win the 3-point shooting contest as well at the inter-squad game. I think at that time the fans were being told that she was still expected to play beginning with the start of the 2nd semester.

ZagDad

[ladyzaga]

I don't think the WCC has any say in this manner. The real question is why GU offered a 2-year scholarship to a person who can play only one year. Unless Mak screwed up with transfer credits or did not do something she needed to or was responsible for, the most likely error falls on GU's compliance officer. It is unlikely that any of us will know the real story.

ZagDad

Cant see this as the responsibility of Mak as the student should not be the one reviewing the situation... or the compliance officer who should be acting on a coaches recommendation.

One and done makes no sense for the program so the coaches must have thought there was some grey area in the rulebook. As you say, we will never know the real story but it is a shame a player loses 1.5 years.

Speaking of never knowing the real story, I hope the NCAA rules in Elle's favour but I would not be shocked if they went the other way. The case is obviously medical, but I dont think the actual injury was ever released where as in the vast majority of cases, if not all, it seems the team releases the nature of the major injury that removes a player for the season. It was released in Emma W case. Maybe I missed it.

[seacatfan]

Mak was a mid season transfer wasn't she? I don't understand what happened to 1/2 of a season of eligibility for her. Happens all the time. McClellan for the GU men is one example. Was eligible around the mid point of 2014-15 and then had all of this season to play. Seems like a raw deal for Mak and GU.

[ZagDad84]

Cant see this as the responsibility of Mak as the student should not be the one reviewing the situation... or the compliance officer who should be acting on a coaches recommendation.

One and done makes no sense for the program so the coaches must have thought there was some grey area in the rulebook. As you say, we will never know the real story but it is a shame a player loses 1.5 years.

Speaking of never knowing the real story, I hope the NCAA rules in Elle's favour but I would not be shocked if they went the other way. The case is obviously medical, but I dont think the actual injury was ever released where as in the vast majority of cases, if not all, it seems the team releases the nature of the major injury that removes a player for the season. It was released in Emma W case. Maybe I missed it.

My intention was not to blame Mak. I do know the graduate transfer rule requires you to actually "graduate" before you can transfer (IE Vernon Adams from EWU to UO). If he did not graduate, he could not transfer. Thus, it fell on Vernon to make sure he graduated if he wanted to transfer. That is the graduate transfer rule. I do not know if there were (are) any student requirements in the student transfer rule (ie, must be a student in good standing, must be making progress towards a degree, etc.) which is the only way Mak would have any responsibility.

As you mention, this program cannot afford to through away scholarships. It is the compliance officer's job to know the in and outs of the NCAA rules and guidelines. I would agree that there likely were (are) some grey areas that were interpreted differently between GU and the NCAA with the student paying the price.

It should be a relatively simple and straight forward process for a student to transfer if he/she desires. Yet time and again we hear of issues of students losing a year or more of their eligibility because of transferring. In Mak's case, she played a year and a few games, so she plays for less than 1.5 years, has to sit for 1.5 years and hen gets to play a single year. This is not right.

The medical redshirt for Elle should be equally straight forward. However, with the NCAA being the NCAA it likely will be anything but easy.

ZagDad

[ladyzaga]

I also need to have one more chance to reply to Sylean before summer is upon us.

guard play is always the key...LS will be a huge upside as long as she plays the game we need her to play and not try to do everything. I would sure love to see her stretch the court next year as it sounds like we me be able to catch a pass over our shoulder...something we struggled with this year.....the addition of Mac and Chandler, whatever they play, because I read that Chandler can actually also play point, will be an upside.....I believe Zhane is a pure shooter, I have heard you say this many times this year Sylean but I have to note that only Shaq and Melissa had poorer shooting percentages that Zhane. In my opinion, a 30% shooter is far from pure. and is a good defender and I want to see more of her....Emma S has improved in many ways but where she'll fit in I don't know... my guess is she will continue to start because she has continued to start despite, IMO, some consistently poor play over extended periods of time.

Elle....can you imagine a Chandler/Mac/Elle trio?...if Mac and Chandler are as good as we've heard...wow... hopefully we will get the chance. Elle needs to win her case and we need her on the defensive side of the ball. One thing we need is scoring but we also need defense. Do we know more about Mak other than the that she can shoot? The forum is very high on Chandler and I sure hope she is the real deal.

I don't know what Kacie will do great question, earlier in the year we lamented how Zykera and Kacie were not in there....well Zykera recieved her chance and, quite frankly, embarrassed our coaches with her far from bench worthy play. Why would Kacie stay after the coaches have virtually redshirted her for two full seasons? I hope she stays and gets a legit chance. and I don't know how soon Jamie will see action...

I just want the best players to play....period...freshmen..transfer..soph/junior/senior......the best players whom ever that may be, not just the flavor or favorite of the month... Trust me, our coaches are not the flavor of the month types. In fact I would argue that it is to the teams detriment that they do not change things a bit despite looooong stretches of questionable effort and results this season.

I really think Grace has to be in the mix....we need a 2nd big post to give Emma W a rest....I just hope she isn't redshirted....usually those Aussies are ready to play from the get go.... IMO there is no chance we will redshirt Grace. Emma will need a rest and she will not be ready until Conference given the knee injury and when it happenned this year. I just hope Grace can finish, I know Emma can and our lack of finish by the bigs this season was a killer when we stuggled to score from outside.

exciting to think about....

Yes, it is exciting but there are many questions. I think we have lost more seniors than any other WCC team which may mean we are still a year removed from going undefeated I know I have said it way too many times but before I go for the summer I need to say again...our coach(es) need to be better or we are going to need better coach(es). This was a trying season and one win against BYU and another in the WNIT against a very questionable opponent does not make me forget my frustration from November to Vegas.

[Cavebear33]

I keep wondering about Kacie. I think she's much better than just constantly riding the bench. Her playing minutes have been brief, and I realize she probably hasn't shown in those minutes what she needed to for more time on the court. It makes you wonder if she's perhaps trying too hard when she does get the opportunity. Obviously, what coaches see in practice enters into her game time as well. She may have just fallen into the cracks because of the make-up of the roster. I wonder if a player in her situation might think the grass is greener somewhere else. In all the discussion above, her name is not mentioned. I know she's one of the most popular girls with her teammates, and she's very supportive of them. I just hate to see someone's college basketball career relegated to practice play and a cheerleader role.

[ladyzaga]

I keep wondering about Kacie. I think she's much better than just constantly riding the bench. Her playing minutes have been brief, and I realize she probably hasn't shown in those minutes what she needed to for more time on the court. It makes you wonder if she's perhaps trying too hard when she does get the opportunity. Obviously, what coaches see in practice enters into her game time as well. She may have just fallen into the cracks because of the make-up of the roster. I wonder if a player in her situation might think the grass is greener somewhere else. In all the discussion above, her name is not mentioned. I know she's one of the most popular girls with her teammates, and she's very supportive of them. I just hate to see someone's college basketball career relegated to practice play and a cheerleader role.

Agreed. There are some who truly are meant to be, as you say, "relegated to practice play and a cheerleader role" but I fear Kacie has much more to offer than that. I worry that in her case "the grass is greener somewhere else". I also agree she is very popular with her teamates and I have found her delightful in what limited interactions I have had with her and have seen her have with others. Losing her would not be a good thing but I would not be shocked... saddened, but not shocked.

[ZagDad84]

I keep wondering about Kacie. I think she's much better than just constantly riding the bench. Her playing minutes have been brief, and I realize she probably hasn't shown in those minutes what she needed to for more time on the court. It makes you wonder if she's perhaps trying too hard when she does get the opportunity. Obviously, what coaches see in practice enters into her game time as well. She may have just fallen into the cracks because of the make-up of the roster. I wonder if a player in her situation might think the grass is greener somewhere else. In all the discussion above, her name is not mentioned. I know she's one of the most popular girls with her teammates, and she's very supportive of them. I just hate to see someone's college basketball career relegated to practice play and a cheerleader role.

I also agree. She appears to nothing but positive and a great cheerleader for the team. Any team would love to have this type of person on their team. Transfers usually happen when a player is not happy with their current team in some fashion. The team is not winning, the player is not getting playing time, the player wants to move closer to home, the player does not see themselves progressing or improving in their current position, etc. Unfortunately, Kacie falls into more than one of these categories and it certainly would be understandable if she chose to leave which would be our loss. We need Kacie on our team.

ZagDad

[sylean]

I suspect that Mac quit before knowing the consequences...accepting her was probably out of desparation because we had a very poor recruiting year....KK was are only junior this year and she was the only junior,besides Melissa, because KK redshirted...the classes were very uneven....which is why our team was basically 4 seniors and 4 freshmen, throw in KK and Emma S...Mac IIRC had the choice to play this season in Janurary but only one semester that was it....she opted to play a full season upcoming this fall......its nobody's fault but things did not work out well for her....if its the NCAA to blame I wish the coaches around the country would put in some new rules to allow better transferring....not that I like people transferring all over the place, but for Mac to have to sit as long as she has is infuriating to me....I hope that her senior season is a blast for her...

coaching is not easy.....look how many big time coaches have lost this year, men and womens side....its a learning curve and even those with vast exp make mistakes...Few said the other day that he probably should have played Eric late in the 2nd half.....
.
If its any consulation, the coaches seem to recruit well.
it was primarily Lisa that got Jill, and it was this coaching staff that got LS and Zyk and Zhane, and the big from Australia and the pg from the Tri cities....

re Kacie:...I thought about this...KG actively went after two players from the Zag team..Jill and Bando...he did not go after Kacie nor Emma S.....why?.....he recruited them....he knew them.....but he didn't try to poach them...ask yourselfs why.....yes, I know coaches are always full of bluster as was KG because he would brag about the recruits on his radio show......but apparently, he really only wanted two of them...why?

I think Emma S tries very hard...energetic....but I see her role diminishing as next season rolls on....Mac and Elle and Chandler will get lots of time...and yes, I believe that Elle will be back....I think the injury was a torn mcl or similar....if Karno gets a redshirt, Elle should...

I suspect that the coaches were torn between sticking with exp and filling in with the freshmen, but to their surprise, the freshmen were quite dynamic..I don't think it was in the coaches plan to have the freshies play so much but they couldn't very well NOT play them, they brought so much to the game...I hope the coaches didn't just chuck this year, thinking they could never get anywhere without Emma or Elle and and Shaq and then Kiara....and I hope their playing rotations weren't based on loyalty or sentiment...I hope not.....

.Lady, I've just watched so many repeat games, and I think when Zhane is set up properly, she does have a pretty little jumper....I still like her game....besides if the coaches were going to look at stats only, some players would not have played much this year....enough said...lol


for me, I am so pumped up for next season...all I do at night is sit on the couch and rewatch whatever games I can....ignoring the tv and the hubby....lol....its going to be a long off season and I don't like baseball nor arena football....its the garden I guess...

[ZagDad84]

I suspect that Mac quit before knowing the consequences..The only people on the hook is the college offering the scholarship. Mak got her scholarship paid for, it is GU who did not get her services. It is GU who gets only 1 year of play for 2 years of scholarship. It is GU's responsibility to research the potential for transfer. As Ladyzaga noted above; GU was likely a little needy and hoped they could get her for 1.5 years. It unfortunately did not work out for the lady zags. .accepting her was probably out of desparation because we had a very poor recruiting year....KK was are only junior this year and she was the only junior,besides Melissa, because KK redshirted...the classes were very uneven....which is why our team was basically 4 seniors and 4 freshmen, throw in KK and Emma S...Mac IIRC had the choice to play this season in Janurary but only one semester that was it....she opted to play a full season upcoming this fall......its nobody's fault but things did not work out well for her....if its the NCAA to blame I wish the coaches around the country would put in some new rules to allow better transferring....not that I like people transferring all over the place, but for Mac to have to sit as long as she has is infuriating to me....I hope that her senior season is a blast for her...

coaching is not easy.....look how many big time coaches have lost this year, men and womens side....its a learning curve and even those with vast exp make mistakes...Few said the other day that he probably should have played Eric late in the 2nd half...Nobody said it was easy. Look at the turnover in the WCC. If you don't win, you will eventually be replaced. This was not a good year for production, no matter the reason. The girls did not play to their full potential. If next year ends like this one, the coaching seat may begin to get a little warm. ..
.
If its any consulation, the coaches seem to recruit well.
it was primarily Lisa that got Jill, and it was this coaching staff that got LS and Zyk and Zhane, and the big from Australia and the pg from the Tri cities You mean Moses Lake. Jill looks like the real deal and LS has good potential. How good the rest of the recruiting class is yet to be determined. ...

re Kacie:...I thought about this...KG actively went after two players from the Zag team..Jill and Bando...he did not go after Kacie nor Emma S.....why?.Since KG only has one sophomore on his squad with a transfer coming in next year from Purdue, I would say he did not have the scholarships to offer....he recruited them....he knew them.....but he didn't try to poach them...ask yourselfs why..I don't see anything nefarious. He can only offer the scholarships he had available. ...yes, I know coaches are always full of bluster as was KG because he would brag about the recruits on his radio show......but apparently, he really only wanted two of them...why?

I think Emma S tries very hard...energetic..She plays very good defense. Her issue was her inconsistency on the Offensive side of the board..but I see her role diminishing as next season rolls on..Certainly very possible..Mac and Elle and Chandler will get lots of time...and yes, I believe that Elle will be back....I think the injury was a torn mcl or similar....if Karno gets a redshirt, Elle should.Not entirely the same. When Karno went down he could hardly walk until he had surgery. Elle played in 8 more games after she injured her knee which could put her in a grey area..

I suspect that the coaches were torn between sticking with exp and filling in with the freshmen, but to their surprise, the freshmen were quite dynamic..I don't think it was in the coaches plan to have the freshies play so much but they couldn't very well NOT play them, they brought so much to the game...I hope the coaches didn't just chuck this year, thinking they could never get anywhere without Emma or Elle and and Shaq and then Kiara....and I hope their playing rotations weren't based on loyalty or sentiment...I hope not..The coaches were trying to win games and put people in who were playing better. I think, at times, the coaches were too slow in changing personnel and other times, they yanked a person who was hot. Their substitution patterns, at times, did not make sense to the casual observer....

.Lady, I've just watched so many repeat games, and I think when Zhane is set up properly, she does have a pretty little jumper..Zhane was not the best defensive #2 on the team so she has to be an offensive threat. Yes at times, she was very effective but she had did not perform on the offensive or defensive end better than Emma S. who was roasted many a time on this board. If she wants to play more next year, she will need to shoot a much better percentage or she will likely be riding the pine. If you look at the #2 and #3 positions, we lose Shaq but may gain Elle, Mak and Chandler, so we have two additional people vying for playing time at her position. ..I still like her game....besides if the coaches were going to look at stats only, some players would not have played much this year....enough said...lol


for me, I am so pumped up for next season...all I do at night is sit on the couch and rewatch whatever games I can....ignoring the tv and the hubby....lol....its going to be a long off season Yes it is a long way till next November.and I don't like baseball nor arena football.Too bad...its the garden I guess...

Have a great summer Sylean. My garden needs tending as well.

ZagDad

[pony]

Hear that Kacie is transferring back to Canada, sure wish her the best of luck, such a nice intelligent young lady. I'm sure sister schools like carroll college would love to have her.

[sylean]

shoot....I liked her...we shouldn't have recruited her if our intentions were to only have her sit on the bench...shame on us for doing that to her...but I have my own theories about what went on(KG over recruited several smallish guards( Bando,Kacie, Laura Cornelius, Georgia,Emma) knowing he would be leaving, even early in the season...knowing that he could pull Bando, the best of his recruits, other than Jill, he didn't want to leave us with nobody so he made a big deal out of Laura Cornelius,Georgia, Kacie, etc..)

yep, I'm piling on KG again....

but smiling that he didn't get Jill....TAKE THAT GRAVES!

[ZagDad84]

shoot....I liked her...we shouldn't have recruited her if our intentions were to only have her sit on the benchWhen you recruit you never know how somebody's skills are going to translate to the D-1 level. Some do and some don't. ...shame on us for doing that to her.I don't know that we did anything to her except gave her a college scholarship. I am sure she was not given a scholarship so she could ride the pine. If you don't think she was given a fair chance, that is understandable, but that falls entirely on LF and her staff not KG...but I have my own theories about what went on(KG over recruited several smallish guards( Bando,Kacie, Laura Cornelius, Georgia,Emma) knowing Now I am even more impressed with KG. He recruited these players for YEARS and then signed them MONTHS (say November) before the Oregon job was even open knowing that he could pick and choose which GU recruits he could take when the Oregon job was offered. Of course he knew how many scholarships UO would have available so his selected recruits would follow him. So he improved the Oregon team and diminished the GU team all in one fell swoop months and years before the UO job was even available. O'K he would be leaving, even early in the season...knowing that he could pull Bando, the best of his recruits, other than Jill, he didn't want to leave us with nobody so he made a big deal out of Laura Cornelius,Georgia, Kacie, etc..)

yep, I'm piling on KG again....

but smiling that he didn't get Jill....TAKE THAT GRAVES!

I got to hand it to you Sylean. When somebody puts a bee in your bonnet you go after them. In this case I think you should be writing fairy tales for the Brothers Grimm.

ZagDad

[ladyzaga]

Please say this isn't so...

shoot....I liked her...we shouldn't have recruited her if our intentions were to only have her sit on the bench...I did too. I don't believe for a second she was recruited with the intention to sit on the bench. I think she was recruited because of her skill, athleticism and her earned pedigree. (Canadian National Program etc) Unfortunately her coach (KG) left and our new staff seemed to stick with their recruits (ie. Emma S.) Somewhere the tunnel vision track of our coaches veered to Stach and away from Kacie which was a big mistake IMO. shame on us for doing that to her... I am with ZagDad on this one. Worse things have happenned than getting two years of scholarship but I do blame our coaches for her minutes this year. If it is true she is leaving I am sure she would have stayed if she would have recieved the time on the court she deserved given the garbage year we have just witnessed at the 2 position. I have my own theories about what went on(KG over recruited several smallish guards( Bando,Kacie, Laura Cornelius, Georgia,Emma) knowing he would be leaving, even early in the season...knowing that he could pull Bando, the best of his recruits, other than Jill, he didn't want to leave us with nobody so he made a big deal out of Laura Cornelius,Georgia, Kacie, etc..) Also with ZagDad on this one. This conspiracy stuff is not fair to KG nor is it fair to our players. We are a special place and we only lost Bando who, if I am not mistaken, was from Eugene. We might have lost her anyway.

yep, I'm piling on KG again....

but smiling that he didn't get Jill....TAKE THAT GRAVES!

If KB is leaving I wish her all the best. The choice to go back to Canada is a good one as she can revive her National Program hopes (which our coaches may have dashed) and, I believe Canadians who go from us to Canada can play immediately without sitting out a year. Is this true?

My bigger fear is that her positivity will be a void that we may not fill. I will say it again, despite all the bluster and rose colored thoughts I see on this board, the attitudes, at times, of some of our players this year were far from "Gonzaga" like. Maybe some of them graduated, and all of them will be a year older next year... My Grandpa used to tell me the only person who can cure selfishness is yourself.

Again, I hope it is just a rumor, but if Kacie really does leave I am sure she will be a standout wherever she lands.

Maybe she can send the board some links to her success?

[Zag 77]

....TAKE THAT GRAVES!

You don't see it very often, but once in a while you might catch a snarky comment here about Kelly Graves. I do not think it makes a bit of sense. GU womens basketball was total dog poop when he took it over. All he did was serve 14 years over which time he produced 7 NCAA Tournament appearances and put GU Women's basketball on the map. It went from drawing a couple dozen family and friends to regular sell out crowds.

Look, it is wonderful that Mark Few wants to stay at GU for the rest of his career (I hope) but I don't see why Kelly should take a bunch of $hit because he wanted to move up to a better opportunity. Its not like he stayed a couple of years and moved on to the next offer he got. He turned down plenty before he left.

And as for taking some recruits, get over it. The reality is that athletes commit to the coaches, not the schools. There are some exceptions, but not that many.

[ZAGS ATTACK BASKET]

Here's the people we know are good.

Makenlee Williams will be the leader of our team next year and is a proven commodity. Jill Barta will get even better with Makenlee Williams giving us a 2nd 20 point scoring threat. Emma Wolfram will be a stud at center with Grace Collett being her backup at center. Laura Stockton and Emma Stach will share duties at guard. Zykera Rice and Zhane Templeton should both see serious minutes.

Again Chandler Smith, Jessie Loera, Grace Collett must prove themselves. We will see next year. I hope coach gets Zykera Rice up to speed on her defense assignments. Because if Zykera Rice earns playing time I see her averaging over 10 points a game easy.

I am not impressed with Kiara Kudron at all. She is not a good shooter, and makes stupid turnovers, not fluid. Would like to see Kudron get much more bench time in favor of above players.

Lastly if Elle Tinkle comes back we would have 8 players who could all score points. 1. Barta 2. Williams 3. Wolfram 4. Stockton 5. Stach 6. Rice 7. Templeton 8. Tinkle.

[northwest1]

You don't see it very often, but once in a while you might catch a snarky comment here about Kelly Graves. I do not think it makes a bit of sense. GU womens basketball was total dog poop when he took it over. All he did was serve 14 years over which time he produced 7 NCAA Tournament appearances and put GU Women's basketball on the map. It went from drawing a couple dozen family and friends to regular sell out crowds.

Look, it is wonderful that Mark Few wants to stay at GU for the rest of his career (I hope) but I don't see why Kelly should take a bunch of $hit because he wanted to move up to a better opportunity. Its not like he stayed a couple of years and moved on to the next offer he got. He turned down plenty before he left.

And as for taking some recruits, get over it. The reality is that athletes commit to the coaches, not the schools. There are some exceptions, but not that many.

Agreed. Maybe the Graves resentment is because some have not bought into the current coaches or it is a feeling that coaching is a career long commitment and it is a betrayal on a personal level if they should leave. Nothing stays the same forever. The secret is to keep things moving forward and not to fall back.

Gone is the 20 year commitment in the coaching circles except for a few exceptions like Stanford.

About recruits, well the only thing about the Bando thing is she is playing in her hometown. If she was from Seattle or Boise then there may be a point but to act like it never happens with a coaching change is silly. From what I have read I don't think there is much fear that he will be competing for the same recruits in the future. Heck, he is still in the running for recruiting that McDonalds All American MVP guard from California, Ionescu. There might be an occasional player but I don't believe the overlap is that great to where it will be a constant concern.

Sometimes we worry about what the other guy is doing too much.

[sylean]

..

[bigblahla]

Nothing against the girl but IMO For all intent and purpose Emma Stach is dead wood...too small, too slow on both ends of the court,...her good plays will only avg against her bad plays...all players have their moments if they get PT but I have seen her overwhelmed by size and athleticism and would advise her to transfer out because PT will be scarce....would give every minute she played to Chandler Smith without hesitation...

just my opinion

Go!! Las Zagas!!!

[Zag 77]

Bigblaha, was it really necessary to say that about a 19 year old ? Come on, some of the players are dumb enough to actually read the stupid rants that get posted here.