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Thread: I can't make anymore excuses; our guards suck

  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Crazy View Post
    I see what you are saying. I see KD as a 3 (though, he can play limited 2). But when you throw 3 other guards out there with him, that can't score, it kind of changes the dynamic on the floor. Apologies for the confusion. I am not in favor of playing 3 guards with a guard/forward like KD and placing Wiltjer at the 5.

    There are some that would look at any combination of Perkins, Emac, KD, Melson, and Alberts on the floor and call that a 4-guard rotation. Especially if the play is altered, as well. Hope that clears everything up.
    cheers man, no confusion

  2. #227
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    Lol. Hart avg 2.0 ppg. Your grasping at straws in this debate. Bell would crap on Perkins in every way......but ppg and 3pt % half his career.

    Perkins is also better rebounder. He also avgs more assists more a gm. Perkins also had more steals per gm.

    So technically I could say Perkins craps on bell. See? So we are going off stats and not opinions.

    Bell wouldn't carry this team either. So Perkins is better in everything but ft %. Carry on though with blind hate for Perkins and melson. Make up another useless counter argument like you tried with hart.

    And I loved bell but my point was they wouldn't of carried this team at this point in their career like Perkins either.
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  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezag View Post
    Perkins is improving and that is a good thing. Unfortunately, every other guard is stagnant or regressing.

    What we are really missing is a 3rd reliable scorer every game behind Domas and KW
    Agree.
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  4. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags11 View Post
    Opinions on bell vs Perkins. I gave you stats. And we were talking stats. Perkins outscored bell so far every yr but Jr yr. And has better 3pt % on two of the four.

    So your talking opinion vs facts. Factually Perkins scored more then bell right now then bells senior year.
    Perkins is actually starting to trend in a nice direction. People are using so much eye test and emotional volatility, though...that we are missing how well he is doing. On some level. Per game, Josh already has a larger role in terms of minutes played and his responsibilities. But let's remember, GBJ was also playing alongside KP. The fact that he was able to be as effective as he was offensively was impressive.

    If you look at the stats beyond points scored, I would actually take JP from an offensive perspective. He has yet to completely figure out defense in the WCC, but his ORtg is still off the charts, so the margin between the two makes that lack of defensive production not so unbearable for the time being.

    What we don't have is a KP, for Josh. That other guard to work in tandem with. *That* is what made those two so special. There is that potential next year with NWG.

  5. #230
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    Coach crazy I agree. My point was I don't see a bell or pangos taking over much more then Perkins at this point in career if they lost Kelly per say.

    Perkins will be just fine.
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  6. #231
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    The Perkins vs. Bell comparison seems pointless. Perkins is the PG. Bell played 2G his whole career and was the defensive stopper. Totally completely different roles they played on their teams, how do you actually compare them? Sure you can look at stats but I just think it's an apples to oranges comparison.

  7. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by seacatfan View Post
    The Perkins vs. Bell comparison seems pointless. Perkins is the PG. Bell played 2G his whole career and was the defensive stopper. Totally completely different roles they played on their teams, how do you actually compare them? Sure you can look at stats but I just think it's an apples to oranges comparison.
    There is some relevance, as we have yet to see how NWG and Perkins will function together. But yes, Bell was functioning in a different capacity...although I don't know that that changes things beyond assists and a few other categories? Perkins actually played very good defense pre-WCC. He most likely won't be the same defender that Gary was, he'll be just fine in defending who he is asked to. Gary's DRtg wasn't actually stellar much of his career from an overall perspective, but that doesn't take into account the fact that he was often times guard the best player 1-3 on the court.

  8. #233
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    I'm trying to recall the last guard that dribbled himself into trouble more than Perkins. I can't say Meech because he could dribble himself out of trouble, rectifying the situation he got himself into.

    Nope, I can't ever recall a GU guard that dribbled into no man's land, without purpose, more than Perkins.

    And folks want to give him credit for his handles. The entire problem with Perkins is his handles. Not that he doesn't have them, but that he doesn't know how to use them, or worse, allows his handles to take over his game to the point that he is ineffective as a point guard.

    I put Perkins below Goodson in the point guard pecking order in the Mark Few era. He really should move over to shooting guard for the remainder of his GU tenure. He really should.
    I miss Mike Hart

  9. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by MickMick View Post
    I'm trying to recall the last guard that dribbled himself into trouble more than Perkins. I can't say Meech because he could dribble himself out of trouble, rectifying the situation he got himself into.

    Nope, I can't ever recall a GU guard that dribbled into no man's land, without purpose, more than Perkins.

    And folks want to give him credit for his handles. The entire problem with Perkins is his handles. Not that he doesn't have them, but that he doesn't know how to use them, or worse, allows his handles to take over his game to the point that he is ineffective as a point guard.

    I put Perkins below Goodson in the point guard pecking order in the Mark Few era.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Bro, Mick, thank you. That hopefully lightened the mood for everybody.

  10. #235
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    Mick wow. I'm done in here. Lol
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  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags11 View Post
    Lol. Hart avg 2.0 ppg. Your grasping at straws in this debate. Bell would crap on Perkins in every way......but ppg and 3pt % half his career.

    Perkins is also better rebounder. He also avgs more assists more a gm. Perkins also had more steals per gm.

    So technically I could say Perkins craps on bell. See? So we are going off stats and not opinions.

    Bell wouldn't carry this team either. So Perkins is better in everything but ft %. Carry on though with blind hate for Perkins and melson. Make up another useless counter argument like you tried with hart.

    And I loved bell but my point was they wouldn't of carried this team at this point in their career like Perkins either.

    Perkins plays PG, obviously his assists are higher.

    Let's talk defense.... You don't want to.

    Using just stats is so stupid. Bell was a volume shooter. Perkins doesn't shoot as many.

    If you actually think Perkins is as good at shooting, well, you're wrong.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickMick View Post
    I'm trying to recall the last guard that dribbled himself into trouble more than Perkins. I can't say Meech because he could dribble himself out of trouble, rectifying the situation he got himself into.

    Nope, I can't ever recall a GU guard that dribbled into no man's land, without purpose, more than Perkins.

    And folks want to give him credit for his handles. The entire problem with Perkins is his handles. Not that he doesn't have them, but that he doesn't know how to use them, or worse, allows his handles to take over his game to the point that he is ineffective as a point guard.

    I put Perkins below Goodson in the point guard pecking order in the Mark Few era. He really should move over to shooting guard for the remainder of his GU tenure. He really should.
    You just lost any credibility with putting Goodson above Perkins. Goodson is tied with Winston Brooks as the worst PG ever. Bankhead was a more serviceable guard the Meech. And how exactly do you define a player after 17 games? Goodson Career 5 pts and 2 assists per game, Perkins 10.4 and 3.7 the turnovers are about (favor Goodson ) even, which is the only category you could even think to say he was better in, nobody with any basketball knowledge would begin to say that. No measurement possible, stats, eye test, astrological sign, or shoe size would give the Meech the nod over Perkins.

  13. #238
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    Wow - I am hoping this thread stays open until the USD game and then self destructs.

  14. #239
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    Yeah, Meech makes Perkins look like Damien Lillard lol

  15. #240

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    Quote Originally Posted by GUfan34 View Post
    Yeah, Meech makes Perkins look like Damien Lillard lol
    Mick's work is done here. He got everyone to chill out for a second haha.

  16. #241
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    Well yeah, but if Perkins came over the middle, Meech would light him up!

    This post is for March Madness seeding purposes only.

  17. #242

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    Quote Originally Posted by sittingon50 View Post
    Well yeah, but if Perkins came over the middle, Meech would light him up!

    Wasn't Meetch a conerback? What's a cornerback doing on that kind of wonky zone D?! You clearly know nothing about football!! (Sorry, was getting to cordial in here. Just throwing out nonsense to get things going again.)

  18. #243
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    I've said it before and I will say it again....there is NO ONE like BOL KONG!

  19. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by GUfan34 View Post
    Perkins plays PG, obviously his assists are higher.

    Let's talk defense.... You don't want to.

    Using just stats is so stupid. Bell was a volume shooter. Perkins doesn't shoot as many.

    If you actually think Perkins is as good at shooting, well, you're wrong.
    Yea Perkins avg more steals per game then bell. Now your nitpicking. Keep swinging. Lol
    Love the zags for life

  20. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezag View Post
    I've said it before and I will say it again....there is NO ONE like BOL KONG!
    Bol Kong!

    Room for some Guy Landry Edi discussion?
    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right

  21. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheZagPhish View Post
    Bol Kong!

    Room for some Guy Landry Edi discussion?
    yes and Manny Arop

  22. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Crazy View Post
    There is some relevance, as we have yet to see how NWG and Perkins will function together. But yes, Bell was functioning in a different capacity...although I don't know that that changes things beyond assists and a few other categories? Perkins actually played very good defense pre-WCC. He most likely won't be the same defender that Gary was, he'll be just fine in defending who he is asked to. Gary's DRtg wasn't actually stellar much of his career from an overall perspective, but that doesn't take into account the fact that he was often times guard the best player 1-3 on the court.
    This is all true.

    However, I think that people forget that Bell could play the point, too - and, had that Pangos guy not come in the same recruiting class, he may have been playing it. He was a PG in HS, and people forget that in his frosh season, Bell often ran the point whenever Kevin was sitting down. Instead, we had Pangos, shifting Bell over to allow him to concentrate on his other gifts.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  23. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags11 View Post
    Yea Perkins avg more steals per game then bell. Now your nitpicking. Keep swinging. Lol

    Riiiight, steals is the sole measure for defense

    Learn the game. You are a fantasy sports nut

  24. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    This is all true.

    However, I think that people forget that Bell could play the point, too - and, had that Pangos guy not come in the same recruiting class, he may have been playing it. He was a PG in HS, and people forget that in his frosh season, Bell often ran the point whenever Kevin was sitting down. Instead, we had Pangos, shifting Bell over to allow him to concentrate on his other gifts.
    Sorry have to disagree with you on this. Stockton ran the point with Pangos on the bench and even when Pangos was on the floor, allowing Pangos to shoot. Gary did a lot good things, but playing PG was not one of them.

  25. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaZagFan View Post
    I think the best thing that could happen to this team would be for Wiltjer and Sabonis to both get injured for about 6-8 games, nothing serious but just keep them on the bench and force the other players to step it up! We might lose some of those games, but face it, the ONLY way this team makes the NCAA tourney this year is to win the WCC tourney and that won't happen if the guards and players other than Wiltjer and Sabonis don't start playing at a higher level.
    The best idea I have seen so far.

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