Exactly Why WCC Made a Big Mistake Eliminating Double Bye for 1 and 2 Seeds

[Zagceo]

I don't care for the day off, but this seeding format is much better for the WCC not looking like some amateur-hour league.

Jamie Z has breathed new life into the WCC by bringing in BYU (a perennial high RPI team) and Pacific.

He also has put into place incentives for schools to schedule less bottom-feeder teams. This is a long game for raising the conference profile, not just about one seasons results.

I want GU to win as much as any of y'all, but I want it to look like they win a tournament that isn't overly slanted against the lower seeded teams. It smacks of insecurity, IMO.

I agree and hope that the new incentives really work in not only better non conference games but also better recruiting because of those games.

[strikenowhere]

I want GU to win as much as any of y'all, but I want it to look like they win a tournament that isn't overly slanted against the lower seeded teams. It smacks of insecurity, IMO.

If you are going to have a conference tournament to determine the auto-bid, why shouldn't the tournament be slanted against the lower-seeded teams? Maybe they should recruit better/coach better/etc in order to improve their seeding and chance to make the tournament. If a team goes through a 2+ month conference schedule and wins the regular season crown, why shouldn't they get rewarded by having better placement to get into the post season? These are young men that understand the concept of the spoils of victory and the consequences of defeat.

To me, this restructuring of the WCC tournament is nothing more than an attempt to provide perennially crappy programs an improved shot at fleeting glory by making the best teams in the conference have to churn through them. Another round of games provides an extra chance at an upset to occur which could potentially increase the NCAA Tournament revenue share should anyone not named Gonzaga/BYU win the crown.

[Once and Future Zag]

If you are going to have a conference tournament to determine the auto-bid, why shouldn't the tournament be slanted against the lower-seeded teams? Maybe they should recruit better/coach better/etc in order to improve their seeding and chance to make the tournament. If a team goes through a 2+ month conference schedule and wins the regular season crown, why shouldn't they get rewarded by having better placement to get into the post season? These are young men that understand the concept of the spoils of victory and the consequences of defeat.

To me, this restructuring of the WCC tournament is nothing more than an attempt to provide perennially crappy programs an improved shot at fleeting glory by making the best teams in the conference have to churn through them. Another round of games provides an extra chance at an upset to occur which could potentially increase the NCAA Tournament revenue share should anyone not named Gonzaga/BYU win the crown.

The seeding already works against them, that's what seeding is. It disadvantages the lower teams and advantages the better teams.

This is a return to looking like a normal conference.

In the end, if we get beat by a lower seed, then we deserve to be penalized by the NCAA committee.

[gonzagafan62]

If you are going to have a conference tournament to determine the auto-bid, why shouldn't the tournament be slanted against the lower-seeded teams? Maybe they should recruit better/coach better/etc in order to improve their seeding and chance to make the tournament. If a team goes through a 2+ month conference schedule and wins the regular season crown, why shouldn't they get rewarded by having better placement to get into the post season? These are young men that understand the concept of the spoils of victory and the consequences of defeat.

To me, this restructuring of the WCC tournament is nothing more than an attempt to provide perennially crappy programs an improved shot at fleeting glory by making the best teams in the conference have to churn through them. Another round of games provides an extra chance at an upset to occur which could potentially increase the NCAA Tournament revenue share should anyone not named Gonzaga/BYU win the crown.

This.

[CDC84]

Interesting thought. Who makes that call? In terms of the auto-bid? I thought it was the NCAAs choice who gets the auto-bid. Conferences without a tourney get the winner of reg season (Ivy League is the only one I can think of) and any conference with a tourney, the NCAA gives the auto-bid to the tourney champs. Could the WCC say "we're 'giving' it to our reg season winner and you can do what you want with our tourney winner" - - is that possible?

I am asking, I don't really know and it is an intriguing idea for a 8-12 ranked type of conference.

I could be wrong, but it is to my understanding that any conference can do what it wants to do. If they want to give the auto-bid to the regular season champ but stage a conference tournament to make money and to give teams in the league a chance to enhance their NCAA tourney resumes, they can do so.

The problem is that TV (ESPN, CBS) might not be happy with a conference who chooses to do this. They like the drama of championship week and the auto bid format of these tourneys. It increases ratings.

[gonzagafan62]

I could be wrong, but it is to my understanding that any conference can do what it wants to do. If they want to give the auto-bid to the regular season champ but stage a conference tournament to make money and to give teams in the league a chance to enhance their NCAA tourney resumes, they can do so.

The problem is that TV (ESPN, CBS) might not be happy with a conference who chooses to do this. They like the drama of championship week and the auto bid format of these tourneys. It increases ratings.

Exactly. This is why nobody sees the Ivy league on a regular basis, unless they play that one game playoff and tie at the end.

[caduceus]

http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/ct/Gonzaga.html

Earlier this morning it said 12 .... And now is 12.6. Or maybe I wasn't wearing my readers at 0'Dark hundred and "thought" I saw 12.0.

It was 12.0 yesterday. They update the team pages once a day, usually in the wee hours. The "live" RPI listing of all the teams is updated every few minutes.

[Zagdawg]

As was mentioned earlier-- it is all about the money.

The top seeds are much bigger draw than the lower end seeds and their 30 fans that travel with them to Vegas-- if I can get the GU/BYU fanbase to the arena 2 days earlier to watch the 1st Zag and BYU games against the lower seeds -- it means a lot more money for the Orleans/and for TV and in turn the WCC gets a better deal. Even though we know the extra RPI hit for the teams that earned the top seeds doesn't really matter to the WCC-- only to the teams that take the hit.

The two teams that will fill the arena are BYU and the Zags -- the more games they can get them in the arena -- the more $$ the WCC will realize.

[bigblahla]

I don't care for the day off, but this seeding format is much better for the WCC not looking like some amateur-hour league.

Jamie Z has breathed new life into the WCC by bringing in BYU (a perennial high RPI team) and Pacific.

He also has put into place incentives for schools to schedule less bottom-feeder teams. This is a long game for raising the conference profile, not just about one seasons results.

I want GU to win as much as any of y'all, but I want it to look like they win a tournament that isn't overly slanted against the lower seeded teams. It smacks of insecurity, IMO.

Z-Man is useless and just waiting for his next gig. BYU came to the WCC because it was the best fit for their Olympic sports and Tiger Ted from Pacific was Z-man's old boss. He is utterly useless when it comes to aiding the brethren in increasing attendance at basketball games. The crappy conference schedule was what it was because he and no one else at WCC headquarters were paying attention and if they were then they should be fired for that atrocity called a schedule. If he left tomorrow no one would miss him.

Go!! Zags!!!

[Zagdawg]

"The crappy conference schedule was what it was because he and no one else at WCC headquarters were paying attention and if they were then they should be fired for that atrocity called a schedule."

Can you imagine being the intern who reviewed/approved this years WCC schedule when it came back from the contractors who designed it---- "Well I guess it looks ok".

[Hoopaholic]

HEY - who snuck in the Kool-Aid!?

If no Spokane, I am hoping hard for San Diego - have never seen a tourney game live & would love it! Agree w/ poster above - just no East Coast Time Zone Please!!!

ME TOO

[FieldHouseFishHouse]

1 Seed Gonzaga and 2 Seed BYU have been rewarded (sarcasm) with opportunities to play games against Santa Clara and LMU, respectively.

These games provide ZERO upside for both teams. Wins for Gonzaga and BYU might actually drive down their RPIs. Losses dramatically decrease odds at an at-large berth for both teams. Santa Clara has an RPI of 206, while LMU has an RPI of 179.

Reasons why our game against Santa Clara stinks:
RPI will go down, win or lose
Santa Clara contested the Zags both times this season, and for some reason, they match up well against us
Tough to beat any team three times in one season
Santa Clara has a game under their belt in that arena and are used to rims and shooting backdrop
Santa Clara gets a day of rest on Friday
Santa Clara gets to play loose; with everything to gain and nothing to lose

I surely hope that both Gonzaga and BYU win and make this a moot point, but I'm frustrated nonetheless. The top teams need to be rewarded for their regular conference season effort. At the very least, why don't they reseed so the highest remaining seed plays the top seed in the quarterfinals (i.e. Zags should be playing LMU) ???!!!???

Interesting post. I think I disagree with you on a few things.

1 - Will their RPI really go down? I just did the math on the back of a napkin. It looks like a win over SCU will drop their RPI by 0.0007. In this case GU's would stay at RPI#24 because they are 0.0015 points ahead of Louisville.

2 - Yeah, it's hard to beat a team 3 times. However, in the tourney the past is the past. You only have to beat the opponent in front of you...having lost to the Zags twice already does not give SCU an advantage.

3 - Zags get to rest on Friday too...and Thursday.

4 - A win late in the season is worth more than usual. The Committee admits this. Record in the last 10 games is a factor they take into consideration. This format also gives the Zags a chance to add 2-3 wins to their resume instead of 1-2.

5 - When you get above 24 wins, you are in rarified territory. 26 wins vs 25 is significant to the committee, so getting another chance to beat a middling team could be good for the Zags.

Edit to clarify - Getting to the title game will knock the Memphis game out of the "last ten played". So winning the tourney will get the Zags to 8-2 in the last ten. Losing in the title game will make them 7-3. Without the quarterfinal game, their record would be 7-3 or 6-4 in those scenarios. Of course this is very specific to this year's schedule and where our losses fell.

[Gozags99]

Interesting post. I think I disagree with you on a few things.

1 - Will their RPI really go down? I just did the math on the back of a napkin. It looks like a win over SCU will drop their RPI by 0.0007. In this case GU's would stay at RPI#24 because they are 0.0015 points ahead of Louisville.

2 - Yeah, it's hard to beat a team 3 times. However, in the tourney the past is the past. You only have to beat the opponent in front of you...having lost to the Zags twice already does not give SCU an advantage.

3 - Zags get to rest on Friday too...and Thursday.

4 - A win late in the season is worth more than usual. The Committee admits this. Record in the last 10 games is a factor they take into consideration. This format also gives the Zags a chance to add 2-3 wins to their resume instead of 1-2.

5 - When you get above 24 wins, you are in rarified territory. 26 wins vs 25 is significant to the committee, so getting another chance to beat a middling team could be good for the Zags.

Fieldhouse, I respect your counter arguments, and you raise good points that should not be dismissed

[DZ]

I could be wrong, but it is to my understanding that any conference can do what it wants to do. If they want to give the auto-bid to the regular season champ but stage a conference tournament to make money and to give teams in the league a chance to enhance their NCAA tourney resumes, they can do so.

The problem is that TV (ESPN, CBS) might not be happy with a conference who chooses to do this. They like the drama of championship week and the auto bid format of these tourneys. It increases ratings.

Oh, to be certain, ESPN would go poo flinging monkey insane. The entire "Championship Week" or whatever would be dismantled if others followed. Who wants to watch Holy Cross beat Colgate or whatever unless they know that someone's going nuts at the end of it. Nah, now that I think about it, love them or hate them, unless you're an Ivy league university with endowments measure in 10 plus figures, it's just not going to happen regardless of how fair or sensible it is.

[maynard g krebs]

They could still use the double bye. The bottom 4 teams played last night. The 2 winners would play the 3&4 seeds on Saturday, those 2 winners play the 1&2 on Monday and the 2 winners play for the WCC Tournament Championship...and the auto bid, on Tuesday.
All the teams have a chance, with a day of rest and preperation between thr first 2 games and Mondays games, the winners (and leaders) of the regular season get the double bye and all teams benefit. The WCC loses 2 games on TV, but probably not ESPN tv, just on TheW or BYU TV, so it isn't a huge loss.
It has a better chance of 2 teams getting into the field of 68 and so more money, to encourage parity (or expensive gala events for the coaches) so the league is better off.

One small problem with that scenario. That's for 8 teams, not 10. The bottom 4 are 7-10, not 5-8, so if the 2 bottom 4 winners play the 3 and 4 seeds the 2nd day, you are leaving the 5 and 6 seeds out of the tournament. Oops!