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Thread: Don't be surprised if

  1. #1
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    Default Don't be surprised if

    the '13-'14 Zags are one of the best Zag teams ever, and could go deeper in the NCAA tournament in March then last years team.

    It may seem that the '13-'14 Zags are going to be inexperienced because they lose three starters, and that they may have to rebuild rather than reload. However, if you take a closer look at the roster you will see that this is not going to be a young team because there are so many players on the team who have red-shirted.

    Let's begin with Sam Dower who should have graduated last year. He's a red-shirt senior. You might think that Coleman and Nunez are beginners to Div 1 basketball, but Coleman should actually be a senior this year, and Coleman a Junior, and both of these guys played in perhaps the toughest conference in America, the Big East. Nunez played for Louisville. Drew Barham played for Memphis for two years and is also a red-shirt Senior who should have graduated last year. And finally, Kyle Dranginis is a red-shirt Sophomore (should be a junior). And even though Coleman and Nunez will be playing for the Zags for the time next season, they both were practicing on the Zag team last year, learning the system and getting familiar with the players.

    After losing 3 starters you would expect that it would take some time for a team to become cohesive, and build good chemistry among the squad. But IMO that is not the case next season. This is going to be a very experienced Zag team. There is not going to be a single player who will have to adjust to Div 1 speed and the quality of the players. These guys have all played on Div 1 courts across America. We will not have to incorporate two Freshmen who are untested in Div 1 basketball, and who do not know the Zag system. We have a proven player in the Big East who averaged 13 ppg and a red-shirt Sophomore who played for Louisville and is all about proving himself. And if you take a closer look there is really not even a single player who is a legitimate Sophomore. Dranginis had one year as a red-shirt so should be a Junior.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    This is going to be a good team, a really good team. It will just be a lot different from last season in that we will be more guard-oriented and we will have depth on the perimeter and not in the paint, the exact opposite of last season. This team will be solid and most of us know it, but we had a ridiculous amount of talent and depth in the post last year so that is why a lot of us aren't so sure about the 13-14 team.

    I just see Pangos being Jimmer 2.0 and we will lose a game or two that we shouldn't but we will be dangerous in March, which is all that matters.
    "After holding open practices during his first three seasons, Romar closed them to reporters last season, citing the "Gonzaga factor." He felt his team was compromised before the 2004-05 game against the Zags, that the opponent awaiting him and beating him 99-87 in Spokane seemed a little too well prepared."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    And if you take a closer look there is really not even a single player who is a legitimate Sophomore.
    Don't forget about PK, his international experience definitely adds some games under his belt, but he's only had 1 year of NCAA ball. Hopefully he is a big force down low all year long, the team will need some solid minutes from him.

    I'm definitely excited for Coleman to take the floor as well.

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    Default Could be

    I am concerned about rebounding and general toughness in the paint. I hope my concerns are alleviated, but these are my concerns. I have no others at this point on the court.

    My other concern is the apparent backsliding on the OOC scheduling front. Worst schedule since, I don't know, maybe 2004 or so.

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    We have a red-shirt sr. guard, David Stockton!!!

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    I would be surprised. Shocked, actually.

    The potential is there to be a great team, but 'best ever'?

    COME'ON MAN!

    (hope i'm wrong)

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    Quote Originally Posted by KStyles View Post
    Don't forget about PK, his international experience definitely adds some games under his belt, but he's only had 1 year of NCAA ball. Hopefully he is a big force down low all year long, the team will need some solid minutes from him.

    I'm definitely excited for Coleman to take the floor as well.
    yep. You got me!!!! lol
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BULLDOG#1 View Post
    I would be surprised. Shocked, actually.

    The potential is there to be a great team, but 'best ever'?

    COME'ON MAN!

    (hope i'm wrong)
    I knew there were fans out there who would be surprised and even shocked; and believe me you are not alone, Bulldog#1. I didn't say "the best ever" I said one of the best ever. I also did not say better then last years team who I think was the best team ever along with the '99 team (tied). I had to ask myself about the Morrison team vs last years team. Both of these teams were exciting all season long, and especially during the last month of play before the NCAA tournament. And I had to give it to last years team. As awesome as it was for Adam to be running for the player of the year and the player with the highest average, I believe that last years team, who was making a run at becoming the #1 team in college hoops, and then finally getting there and holding that spot for three weeks was the most exciting Zag basketball ever for me, accept for the '99 NCAA run to the elite 8.

    For me the '13-'14 Zags will compete against the 2000 Zags for the third most exciting season in Zag history. Yes! I think this years team will be better then the Heytveld, Pargo, Downs, Bouldin and Gray team.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    I will be shocked...I do not expect this team to even approach last years accomplishments ...maybe a top 25 team.....maybe a win or even two in the tourney...and March is not the only thing that matters to me...not even close... it is the season...but...others have different expectations...

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=Reborn;928726]the '13-'14 Zags are one of the best Zag teams ever, and could go deeper in the NCAA tournament in March then last years team.

    It may seem that the '13-'14 Zags are going to be inexperienced because they lose three starters, and that they may have to rebuild rather than reload. However, if you take a closer look at the roster you will see that this is not going to be a young team because there are so many players on the team who have red-shirted.

    Let's begin with Sam Dower who should have graduated last year. He's a red-shirt senior. You might think that Coleman and Nunez are beginners to Div 1 basketball, but Coleman should actually be a senior this year, and Coleman a Junior, and both of these guys played in perhaps the toughest conference in America, the Big East. Nunez played for Louisville. Drew Barham played for Memphis for two years and is also a red-shirt Senior who should have graduated last year. And finally, Kyle Dranginis is a red-shirt Sophomore (should be a junior). And even though Coleman and Nunez will be playing for the Zags for the time next season, they both were practicing on the Zag team last year, learning the system and getting familiar with the players.

    After losing 3 starters you would expect that it would take some time for a team to become cohesive, and build good chemistry among the squad. But IMO that is not the case next season. This is going to be a very experienced Zag team. There is not going to be a single player who will have to adjust to Div 1 speed and the quality of the players. These guys have all played on Div 1 courts across America. We will not have to incorporate two Freshmen who are untested in Div 1 basketball, and who do not know the Zag system. We have a proven player in the Big East who averaged 13 ppg and a red-shirt Sophomore who played for Louisville and is all about proving himself. And if you take a closer look there is really not even a single player who is a legitimate Sophomore. Dranginis had one year as a red-shirt so should be a Junior.[/QUOT

    Coleman is a nice addition. I expect Dower to have a very good year.

    Karnowski will be able to compete against upper echelon centers next year. This year he will be consistent against WCC cupcakes.

    I think Gonzaga gets bounced per the usual in the 2nd round of the NCAA Tourney this year against a #2 or #3 seed after garnering a #6 or #7 seed.

    Next year I think the eternal optimism resurfaces barring a key injury to Coleman, Bell, Pangos or Karno. For the Zags to compete for a FF in 2014-15 they desperately need to recruit another PF/C that can contribute immediately or snag 1 of those elusive grad student transfers who can play immediately. If all those cards align we may be able to overcome other "non-player" deficiencies and make that elusive run in 2015 to Lucas Oil Stadium.

    Oh ya and adding Perkins would also be helpful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGonzagaFactor View Post

    I just see Pangos being Jimmer 2.0
    I disagree. Jimmer was freaky athletic in addition to his range, and could hit a pullup 27 footer while tightly guarded. He was a scorer first who carried his team.

    KP is a floor general who needs to facilitate the offense and hit the open shot. Sure he can get hot and make 7 out of 10- he's crafty about finding openings. But he'll never average 20+ a game, and if he tried to it would kill the Zags.

    That said, I agree that this team will have the potential to surprise people. There will be a bigtime scoring threat at all 5 positions, and it will be a nightmare for opposing teams to game plan. Dower and Karn can both score efficiently one on one, and if you double them a shooter is open, so it's pick your poison. No one guy will need to score a ton of points, and there could be 5 guys between about 9 and 14 ppg. Those are the hardest teams to plan for imo.

  12. #12
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    If the Zags win two games in the NCAA tournament then I would have to say that it would be the season that counted. If they are as successful as I think they will be, I think many, many people like you will be shocked. And that fact alone will make it a great season.

    How many fans thought Gonzaga would become the the team they became last year? Who felt Olynyk would become the player he became? Last years season was such a surprise to all of us. Honestly, if the Zags are as good as I think they will be (not expect) I will not be as surprised as I was last year. Last year at this time I thought that PK might actually start ahead of Olynyk.

    One thing that I think is going to happen is that PK and Dower are going to be a lot better than many think. Sam Dower has the potential and offensive skills to explode. Many of the "talking heads" actually felt that last year would be Sam's breakout year, not Kelly's.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    2 games= swt 16. Nice but I don't think so unless we get a HUGE break......and lots of luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 229SintoZag View Post
    My other concern is the apparent backsliding on the OOC scheduling front. Worst schedule since, I don't know, maybe 2004 or so.
    SintoZag, I don't see where the Zags are backsliding at all in the OOC games that have been scheduled. The OOC games are just as tough if not tougher then last years.

    Syracuse is a top ten team for sure. Finished in the Final 4 last year.
    Memphis finished in the top 20 last season and is ranked in 15th in the preseason poll. Finally Baylor won the NIT last year and is ranked 21st in the preseason basketball poll.

    Kansas State with Bruce Weber as their coach, in their house will be really tough. West Virginia in their house will be tough. And Dayton and Colorado State will certainly be tough games as they are quality teams from good conferences. this could be the toughest OOC schedule we've had in a long time, especially because our toughest games are on the road.

    The OOC games at home may not seem to be really all that good, but I think you have to like the Colorado State and New Mexico St games. They are both good basketball programs.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Default That WOULD be a surprise

    I guess in a general sense ANY team that makes the dance could do better than Few and crew did last year including the new Zags.

    Last year's team makes it easier for you to look smart come March by only managing to win 1 game.

    I hear what you're saying about experienced players which is why they will be OK and could get streaky hot from outside on any particular day.

    However, the Zags lost 2 NBA players-one of them a lottery pick and Mike Hart (and gle)

    That team went 32-3. I predict these new (but veteran) Zags lose at least twice that many.

    ZZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    2 games= swt 16. Nice but I don't think so unless we get a HUGE break......and lots of luck.

    Isn't "getting a huge break and LOTS of luck" the definition of success in the NCAA tournament? lol
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    2 games= swt 16. Nice but I don't think so unless we get a HUGE break......and lots of luck.
    technically no.

    In some cases (play-in games), 3 wins gets a team into the Sweet 16

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    Agree completely, Reborn. All can score too. A bit small with the starters offset by chemistry and confidence. Going to be a fun year!
    Go Zags!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjm720 View Post
    Agree completely, Reborn. All can score too. A bit small with the starters offset by chemistry and confidence. Going to be a fun year!
    These are the guys that are capable of averaging 10-20 ppg

    1. Pangos
    2. Coleman
    3. Dower
    4. Bell
    5. Karnowski
    6. I think Nunez has that capability
    7. I also think Dranginis has it too.

    Add Barham and Stockton and you have a pretty experienced team, and a team that is capable of scoring more than 80 ppg. This could be one of our better offensive teams. In this sense it reminds me of the '09 team with Heytvelt and Pargo ect.

    I remember hearing a few years ago an analysis on teams that can make a deep run in the tournament. The analyst said it is teams that have 3 guys that can get you double figures consistently and are all capable of creating plays for themselves. Next years team really does have five or six guys.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    I'm on board with the Zags having a very successful season and agree with Reborn on his outlook. Even if the Zags lose six games as zagzilla predicted, I take into account that the FF teams from last season lost an average of 8 games.

    A decent seed, an upset in third round and Zags will be lookin' good!

    Go Zags!

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    Quote Originally Posted by exclusivelee View Post
    technically no.

    In some cases (play-in games), 3 wins gets a team into the Sweet 16
    Not for us. For us always 2. Could be 3. Unlikely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 229SintoZag View Post
    I am concerned about rebounding and general toughness in the paint. I hope my concerns are alleviated, but these are my concerns. I have no others at this point on the court.
    I have to agree with Sinto here, and in essence Reborn as well. The only guy I''m not seeing is one who has been instrumental to the Zags successful seasons. The Mike Hart. The Mark Spink. The Pendo. The Mike Nillson.

    I can't see where that toughness is going to come from. Getting the timely rebound when we most need it. Doing all the little things. The intangibles. Making the plays that occur off camera that swings the game in our favor.

    I, too, hope that the guy either emerges from a player currently on the roster (PK?) or that Kuso 2.0 is still out there...because when the chips are on the line, we're going to need a tougher than nails player who will not be denied.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maynard g krebs View Post
    I disagree. Jimmer was freaky athletic in addition to his range, and could hit a pullup 27 footer while tightly guarded. He was a scorer first who carried his team.

    KP is a floor general who needs to facilitate the offense and hit the open shot. Sure he can get hot and make 7 out of 10- he's crafty about finding openings. But he'll never average 20+ a game, and if he tried to it would kill the Zags.

    That said, I agree that this team will have the potential to surprise people. There will be a bigtime scoring threat at all 5 positions, and it will be a nightmare for opposing teams to game plan. Dower and Karn can both score efficiently one on one, and if you double them a shooter is open, so it's pick your poison. No one guy will need to score a ton of points, and there could be 5 guys between about 9 and 14 ppg. Those are the hardest teams to plan for imo.
    I see what you mean, but we don't have the inside depth we had last year. There will be a lot of floor time for Kevin with Karno and/or Dower on the bench.

    I predict a big change in Kevin's game because this year he will be relied upon to score a lot more. If Jimmer had Olynyk and Harris on his team, I believe his game would have looked a lot more like Kevin's. There's no need to take deep contested 3s when you have 2 NBA bigs down low. I am excited to see what Pangos does with more pressure to score on his shoulders. I think we've barely scratched the surface of what KP can do offensively.
    "After holding open practices during his first three seasons, Romar closed them to reporters last season, citing the "Gonzaga factor." He felt his team was compromised before the 2004-05 game against the Zags, that the opponent awaiting him and beating him 99-87 in Spokane seemed a little too well prepared."

  24. #24
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    I think our biggest improvement over last year's team will be our bench play. There are 3 guys on that bench who I think could start: Barham, Nunez and Dranginis. These 3 guys will be able to score off the bench if they don't start. And as you can see, they are all 3 pt shooters. The other guy off the bench is Stocks. Our bench did not play good in the NCAA tournament at all last year. We were gravely outplayed by Wichita St, and even outscored by Southern. Off the bench the Zags got 9 against Southern and 6 against Wichita St.

    As much as most Zag fans love Mike Hart the Zags will be so much better off by having Coleman at the 3. Unfortunately, basketball teams need to score points and Hart did not help the Zags at all, and imo he hurt them. We really such a hard time finding someone who could bring power at the 3. Hart averaged 2 pts a game. And because of our limitations at the 3 Few had to play Stockton and Pangos or Stockton and Bell. And this made us way too small, and Stockton is as limited as Hart on offense in terms of scoring. IMO Stockton's minutes will be decrease considerably. Next year the Zags will have lots of players at the 3, and Stockton then because purely a back up point guard, which he really is. When you have guys on the court like Hart and Stockton it really limits what you can do.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    I think our biggest improvement over last year's team will be our bench play. There are 3 guys on that bench who I think could start: Barham, Nunez and Dranginis. These 3 guys will be able to score off the bench if they don't start. And as you can see, they are all 3 pt shooters. The other guy off the bench is Stocks. Our bench did not play good in the NCAA tournament at all last year. We were gravely outplayed by Wichita St, and even outscored by Southern. Off the bench the Zags got 9 against Southern and 6 against Wichita St.

    As much as most Zag fans love Mike Hart the Zags will be so much better off by having Coleman at the 3. Unfortunately, basketball teams need to score points and Hart did not help the Zags at all, and imo he hurt them. We really such a hard time finding someone who could bring power at the 3. Hart averaged 2 pts a game. And because of our limitations at the 3 Few had to play Stockton and Pangos or Stockton and Bell. And this made us way too small, and Stockton is as limited as Hart on offense in terms of scoring. IMO Stockton's minutes will be decrease considerably. Next year the Zags will have lots of players at the 3, and Stockton then because purely a back up point guard, which he really is. When you have guys on the court like Hart and Stockton it really limits what you can do.
    Wow, that is bad.
    "After holding open practices during his first three seasons, Romar closed them to reporters last season, citing the "Gonzaga factor." He felt his team was compromised before the 2004-05 game against the Zags, that the opponent awaiting him and beating him 99-87 in Spokane seemed a little too well prepared."

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