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Thread: Zags didn't choke vs. Wichita St?

  1. #51
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    Andy Glockner is definitely a GU sympathizer. I've tweeted him a few times about the zags and he has mentioned back about our bad tournament luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DADoZAG View Post
    Didn't realize you were part of the team, Zippy.

    Go ZAGS!
    WE ARE all part of the Zag's. Without us, all these teams would be nothing. Why cuz if a players shoots a 3 and no one cares to listen or see it, does it matter?

    WE ARE G.U.
    Love the zags for life

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTZag03 View Post
    I agree.

    All my friends rail on me anytime I say "we" referring to one of the two teams in all of sports that I care about - GU being one. Yes, I have an emotional connection to the team and I identify with them. I also to a degree live vicariously through them. So what? It's life. Regrettably in the case of Gonzaga I was never on the basketball team (although once I did register for the basketball team when there was a glitch in the program). However I did actually represent GU in D1 athletics, so I think it is entirely appropriate for me and other people to say we versus they when referring to the team. Otherwise why do we spend so much time here? Why do we care? If we don't identify passionately with our student athletes, the student body, the university, and the alumni, then why follow basketball at all?
    Beautiful. Agree 250%
    Love the zags for life

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags11 View Post
    WE ARE all part of the Zag's. Without us, all these teams would be nothing. Why cuz if a players shoots a 3 and no one cares to listen or see it, does it matter?

    WE ARE G.U.
    Yeah, what he said.

    Kinda nice not to get blasted because you have an opinion that may not be agreed upon by 100% of the posters. Ahhhhhhh, an odd feeling...but I could get used to it.

    Now, back to my prozac. And Zag jammies.

  5. #55
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    Default Choke?

    Gonzaga FG 36% 21/59 WSU FG 50% 25/50
    Gonzaga 3 PT 35% 8/23 WSU 3 PT 50% 14/28
    Gonzaga FT 69% 20/29 WSU FT 67% 12/18
    Gonzaga REB 39 WSU REB 30

    Missed bunnies cost GU the game.

  6. #56
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    The no-call foul on KO was so obvious that no serious observer, even Shockers, would have argued it.

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    Default Unsolicited Advice for those who wallow...

    While I anticipated, in fact predicted that our beloved Zags would go down to Wichita (and mostly for match up issues), it felt awful. However, by now we should be used to going down early, if not often, in the NCAAs. Making the tournament 14 years straight is an accomplishment to be proud of.

    Wichita was always capable of shooting a high percentage of shots. They shot 53% in Omaha against my Blue Jays (and lost by a dozen because Creighton shot 70%). Wichita plays good defense, rebounds well, and when they get hot, they can beat just about anybody, ask Rick Pitino. It's time to do like Emy Lou...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzTirzJsFM8

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by siliconzag View Post
    While I anticipated, in fact predicted that our beloved Zags would go down to Wichita (and mostly for match up issues), it felt awful. However, by now we should be used to going down early, if not often, in the NCAAs. Making the tournament 14 years straight is an accomplishment to be proud of.

    Wichita was always capable of shooting a high percentage of shots. They shot 53% in Omaha against my Blue Jays (and lost by a dozen because Creighton shot 70%). Wichita plays good defense, rebounds well, and when they get hot, they can beat just about anybody, ask Rick Pitino. It's time to do like Emy Lou...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzTirzJsFM8
    I agree with siliconzag's sentiments here. That being said .... here's a slight correction. While it's true that HC Mark Few's Zags have been to 14 straight NCAA tournaments, the Gonzaga program has been 15 straight. I point that out because, in the history of NCAA Men's Basketball .... only 6 programs have had longer streaks.

    And in terms of current (or active) streaks .... only three schools have longer active streaks than Gonzaga

    What's interesting to me is only 5 schools currently have active streaks longer than 8 consecutive.

    We all know that there's much more work to be done. I'm looking forward to the Zags' next Sweet 16, their next Elite 8, and their first Final Four. I'm confident that these will happen in my lifetime (which is a comment that would have been deemed ludicrous 15 years ago today).
    Last edited by GoZags; 06-23-2013 at 10:11 AM.

    "To be continued ....."
    Father Tony Lehman, SJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagaZags View Post
    Gonzaga FG 36% 21/59 WSU FG 50% 25/50
    Gonzaga 3 PT 35% 8/23 WSU 3 PT 50% 14/28
    Gonzaga FT 69% 20/29 WSU FT 67% 12/18
    Gonzaga REB 39 WSU REB 30

    Missed bunnies cost GU the game.
    As the article states it was more Wichita hitting shots on 9 straight possessions with Bell being out.

    We win by 6-7 if Bell is playing because he would have stopped 2-3 of those threes they made in that 9 possession stretch. Also Stockton would not have been on the botched inbounds.

    Have I driven home 10 times now that no one is mentioning Bell (our top perimeter defender) being injured?
    “People can talk. People can speculate. These guys are hungry and they're ready to go." Mark Few

  10. #60
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    Default News flash

    The Zags lost. No one can argue if so and so played the Zags would have won. WSU was better that day. WSu went to the Final Four, the Zags lost in the round of 32, again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    In the history of NCAA Men's Basketball .... only 6 programs have had longer streaks.

    And in terms of current (or active) streaks .... only three schools have longer active streaks than Gonzaga

    What's interesting to me is only 5 schools currently have active streaks longer than 8 consecutive.
    This fact means H.S. recruits will honestly believe they will have 4-5 opportunities to play in the NCAA tournament during their career. And they can see that if they really are as good as they think, they will know that they will be the ones to put us over the edge. Every kid wants to play in the Dance and our consistency is matched by only 4-5 other programs, EVER.

    That will bring recruits on its own in spite of Wichita beating us.
    “People can talk. People can speculate. These guys are hungry and they're ready to go." Mark Few

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oregonzagnut View Post
    As the article states it was more Wichita hitting shots on 9 straight possessions with Bell being out.

    We win by 6-7 if Bell is playing because he would have stopped 2-3 of those threes they made in that 9 possession stretch. Also Stockton would not have been on the botched inbounds.

    Have I driven home 10 times now that no one is mentioning Bell (our top perimeter defender) being injured?
    And 10 times we've realized that's a moot point OZN. WSU was 7/14 from deep in the first half IIRC, and Bell was in that whole time. Bell is one man, their whole team was hitting. It's not like Bell coul have guarded Early and stopped any of his three 3's. It was bad team defense combined with insanely hot shooting. If you want to blame somebody, blame few for not developing our bench better through out the season. Dranginis has a skill set that would hve helped tremendously when GB went down but for most of the season he was sat for Barham. IMO the #1 team in the nation should have the ability to beat a team like WSU even when a guard goes down.

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    Damn...if only you experts had been coaching...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    Damn...if only you experts had been coaching...
    no #### bartruff

    however I don't buy into the spin that teams get hot and there's nothing to be done. Disagree. So does that mean GU's better 3 point D with Bell has nothing to do with Bell?

    yes, teams get hot, and yes, there are ways to cool them off too. How about Green going crazy (getting hot) in the Finals, and then Miami game planning to run him off the line in games 6 and 7 when he struggled mightily? Did he just go cold, or did the D adjust?

    edit: bigger question to me is that KO went 0-3 from deep and KP 4-12. that's 27%, and most of those were good looks. throw in their combined 13-19 from the line at 68% and E's poor start...loss. It still took that amazing shooting performance from WSU to pull it off, but GU (we???) can look in the mirror for the answers imo. Not luck, or unlucky
    Last edited by bballbeachbum; 06-23-2013 at 01:28 PM. Reason: edit

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZAGGED OUT View Post
    And 10 times we've realized that's a moot point OZN. WSU was 7/14 from deep in the first half IIRC, and Bell was in that whole time. Bell is one man, their whole team was hitting. It's not like Bell coul have guarded Early and stopped any of his three 3's. It was bad team defense combined with insanely hot shooting. If you want to blame somebody, blame few for not developing our bench better through out the season. Dranginis has a skill set that would hve helped tremendously when GB went down but for most of the season he was sat for Barham. IMO the #1 team in the nation should have the ability to beat a team like WSU even when a guard goes down.
    Then it's all moot. But IMO, losing Bell mattered a lot.
    “People can talk. People can speculate. These guys are hungry and they're ready to go." Mark Few

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    Everyone is a arm chair coach or player. Sometimes teams are just hot and cant be stopped. However, IMO when you lose every NCAA Tournament game by a team hot from 3's, it is more then just hot from 3's.

    We rarely lose to NCAA Tournament teams by Post play. Why? IMO, it is a coaching strategy. Make a team beat us from 3 is our rule of thumb. It works when we win, doesn't when we lose. A huge deal is our half time adjustments that seems Few and company arent elite at doing.

    When they get good at doing adjustments we will see Few get to E8. I do agree teams get hot or teams are JUST better. WSU made F4, but whats that mean? They WERE a good team, but Zags were better and last yr should of been F4 at worst. HUGE letdown.
    Love the zags for life

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags11 View Post
    Everyone is a arm chair coach or player. Sometimes teams are just hot and cant be stopped. However, IMO when you lose every NCAA Tournament game by a team hot from 3's, it is more then just hot from 3's.

    We rarely lose to NCAA Tournament teams by Post play. Why? IMO, it is a coaching strategy. Make a team beat us from 3 is our rule of thumb. It works when we win, doesn't when we lose. A huge deal is our half time adjustments that seems Few and company arent elite at doing.

    When they get good at doing adjustments we will see Few get to E8. I do agree teams get hot or teams are JUST better. WSU made F4, but whats that mean? They WERE a good team, but Zags were better and last yr should of been F4 at worst. HUGE letdown.
    still closing your posts all po'd with HUGE letdown? everybody here already knows that I thought; is that still the choice closing line...HUGE letdown. Seriously, it's summer already man, that perspective will get you where? It was a huge letdown for all the followers of the team, I'm unclear on what you're trying to say unless it's still simply to vent.

    as for armchair coach or player, you're right of course and just like on the court it all plays out. this board helps do that over a season and seasons really well seems to me, just like on the court.

    on adjustments, it's win some, lose some for Few imo. More on the shooting: KP and KO took 2/3 of the team's shots at 14-39 for 36%...lots of good execution getting lots of those shots, especially the threes I talked about before; add in E's 2-8...the Zag shooting didn't respond. Maybe that's on Few some as the coach

  18. #68
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    Everyone....everyone....well, I can't speak for everyone but it appears to me that everyone has a opinion but not everyone thinks their opinion is a fact...

    IMHO only the experts do that.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bballbeachbum View Post

    however I don't buy into the spin that teams get hot and there's nothing to be done. Disagree.

    yes, teams get hot, and yes, there are ways to cool them off too.
    It's been pointed out that on most of the 3's there was a defender closing out with a hand up. I don't have tape but my recall is that several were well behind the line.

    It's not like there was one guy you could "run off the line"; it was multiple shooters.

    So the question is, what could have been done differently?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maynard g krebs View Post
    It's been pointed out that on most of the 3's there was a defender closing out with a hand up. I don't have tape but my recall is that several were well behind the line.

    It's not like there was one guy you could "run off the line"; it was multiple shooters.

    So the question is, what could have been done differently?
    shoot better, that's my point. make open shots, which GU had and missed by their best players

    and also, generally, that guys get hot or cold and teams get hot or cold but that's not all it is in explaining why, there are reasons. I didn't call out the Zags for that, but do not follow the direction of that explanation on good shooting vs. bad shooting

    I know there was more than one guy to "run off the line," and also to stop from penetrating, and other things too...certainly answers in that as an explanation (which losing GBj didn't help) even tho running someone off the line is different than a hand in the face; lots of shooters can shoot with a hand in their face. And with the players GU had it didn't surprise a team went off from 3 no matter what D GU played with hands in faces too, and I felt GU would need to outgun teams in this situation before the tourney started and posted that; just didn't believe we had the D game to consistently shut perimeter scorers down. Believe others were wary of this as well, and especially once GBj went down, that made things harder for that team in that game

    so I'm not calling GU out for that and expected something like this. I just believe there are more to the reasons on why teams get hot or not

    so what could Zags have done differently? shoot better!



    OK, so what about Green...did he just go cold or did the Heat adjust is the Zags better 3 point D with Bell an anomaly or because of his play out there defending? what do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bballbeachbum View Post
    shoot better, that's my point. make open shots, which GU had and missed by their best players

    and also, generally, that guys get hot or cold and teams get hot or cold but that's not all it is in explaining why, there are reasons. I didn't call out the Zags for that, but do not follow the direction of that explanation on good shooting vs. bad shooting

    I know there was more than one guy to "run off the line," and also to stop from penetrating, and other things too...certainly answers in that as an explanation (which losing GBj didn't help) even tho running someone off the line is different than a hand in the face; lots of shooters can shoot with a hand in their face. And with the players GU had it didn't surprise a team went off from 3 no matter what D GU played with hands in faces too, and I felt GU would need to outgun teams in this situation before the tourney started and posted that; just didn't believe we had the D game to consistently shut perimeter scorers down. Believe others were wary of this as well, and especially once GBj went down, that made things harder for that team in that game

    so I'm not calling GU out for that and expected something like this. I just believe there are more to the reasons on why teams get hot or not

    so what could Zags have done differently? shoot better!



    OK, so what about Green...did he just go cold or did the Heat adjust is the Zags better 3 point D with Bell an anomaly or because of his play out there defending? what do you think?
    I think injuries are a part of the game ...... that they shouldn't ever be used as an "excuse" but could be used as an "explanation" or a "contributing reason". i.e. Bell was significantly slowed v Southern and significantly slowed for the first half of the Wichita State game. It got to the point where he just couldn't go for the 2nd half of the round of 32 game. Mark Few (who was keenly aware of Bell's injury) felt that part of Bell was better than the alternative. Again, not an excuse .... but an explanation ..... The Zags were blessed throughout the first 30 games or so of the season to be injury free .... it just caught up with them at an incredibly inopportune time.

    As for team defense in the Wichita State game? WSU took the shots that the Zag's staff wanted them to take. There were very few easy buckets made by the Shockers. They made the shots and they won the game. It's pretty simple.

    "To be continued ....."
    Father Tony Lehman, SJ

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    I closed it out with that cuz that's what it was. Fact. It is june and i replied before with lets move on. Fact. Then this thread exploded and so i made a opinion. . We gave them the shot Few wanted. Fact. We lose to NCAA Tournament teams by 3's that get hot. Fact. We rarely lose to post play teams.

    It is what it is. Alot is opinion and some are opinion with facts entwined with it. Some People think if you dont believe or agree with Few or Players, then your a hater and not being objective. Sadly, that is opinion of posters here sometimes.

    Closing, We have had a awesome streak to make march, smart clean kids and a wonderful coaching staff. We don't "Shock" anyone in March either anymore. Fact. I enjoy every game, and every season. I love this board for the mature posters here but run into some adults who act like kids. Opinion.
    Love the zags for life

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
    I think injuries are a part of the game ...... that they shouldn't ever be used as an "excuse" but could be used as an "explanation" or a "contributing reason". i.e. Bell was significantly slowed v Southern and significantly slowed for the first half of the Wichita State game. It got to the point where he just couldn't go for the 2nd half of the round of 32 game. Mark Few (who was keenly aware of Bell's injury) felt that part of Bell was better than the alternative. Again, not an excuse .... but an explanation ..... The Zags were blessed throughout the first 30 games or so of the season to be injury free .... it just caught up with them at an incredibly inopportune time.

    As for team defense in the Wichita State game? WSU took the shots that the Zag's staff wanted them to take. There were very few easy buckets made by the Shockers. They made the shots and they won the game. It's pretty simple.
    Agree
    Love the zags for life

  24. #74
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    The article sheds no new light on the nightmare for me. Everything "revealed" was known very soon after the game - and many of the points were known as the nightmare unfolded.

    What this article fails to address is that Few can't win big games and Gonzaga doesn't know how to play defense when it really matters.


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    Quote Originally Posted by kyle dixon View Post
    The Zags lost. No one can argue if so and so played the Zags would have won. WSU was better that day. WSu went to the Final Four, the Zags lost in the round of 32, again.
    Brilliant comment.

    I'd like to add to it that some teams didn't make it to the tournament. Again.

    I'd like to also add that some other teams lost in the round of 64. Again.

    I'd like to also add that some other teams lost in the round of 32. Again.

    I'd like to also add that only 4 teams made it to the Final 4. Again.

    I'd like to also add that only 1 team won it all. Again.

    Not to brag or anything, but I think my commentary is much more brilliant. Again.

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