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Thread: Ichiro!

  1. #1
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    Default Ichiro!

    Congrats on the 9th Straight 200+ Hit Season! Another record for the Mariners left fielder! Ichiro's other biggies: (1) MLB hits record; (2) 8 seasons w/200 hits and 100 runs.

    Extra gravy in a nice season for the Mariners. Playing .500+ baseball almost the entire way. Being competitive. Nice job for their first-year Manager Don Wakamatsu; and how wonderful to have Junior back.

    :]

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    If he had played in the US for his entire career, he would be a cinch to beat Pete Rose's hit record. Too bad all those hits in Japan don't get to count.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

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    Here's another "too bad," LongIsland: the various sports networks/stations outside the Northwest pretty much blew off the story. At least, Kiddwell hasn't heard a peep except from Fox Northwest.

    This is a MAJOR sports feat.

    :[

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    Not a huge Ichiro fan. Mariners pay him way to much money for hitting singles. Here is my argument. Ichiro gets paid 18 million and Franklin Gutierrez gets paid $455,000. Ichiro has 79 runs and 40 rbi. Gutierrez has 72 runs and 60 rbi. Granted Ichiro has a better batting average and gets more singles than Gutierrez but the run production numbers are virtually the same. I for one believe Gutierrez numbers are better than Ichiro's because Gutierrez has 20 more rbi. As for defense I think it is a wash they are both above average defensive players. Gutierrez gives the Mariners almost the same production as Ichiro for 17.5 million dollars less. That is money that could be spent elsewhere to improve the team. The Mariners problem is run production. We need a corner outfielder who can hit for power and get us some rbis.

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    Eroop22, you talk about numbers that depend on your teammates. The reason Ichiro!'s numbers are down is mostly due to his teammates inability to either drive him in or get on base in front of him. With his batting average and on base percentage there is no other reason why he shouldn't be over 100 runs scored for the season. While Ichiro!'s salary is high I would argue that he is well worth the money. His numbers are off the charts. I don't think you understand the significance of what he just did. He broke a record that has stood since 1901. That's a long time. He also generates a lot of income for the Mariners by being one of the most popular players in America and in Japan. He just made a .500 team relevant in September with his hits record.

    Comparing him to Gutierrez isn't really fair either. He is in the early stages of his career where the team has more control over his salary. He is earning well below market value and I'm glad that the Mariners have the kind of management not afraid to deal a popular guy like Putz to go get Gutierrez. That was a great move, but it is nearly impossible to put a team together with all $500k players and be good. You have to pay for a guy that has shown that he can be an all star player.

    If you really want to complain about guys eating up salary look no further than Carlos Silva and Miguel Batista. Those guys contribute next to nothing to the team and cost the Mariners over $20 million this year.

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    @gu03alum
    No doubt Batista and Silva are overpaid so are Beltre and Johjima. My whole point is Ichiro is a singles hitter. We have a problem scoring runs. I completely understand the significance of what Ichiro just accomplished. He however is not worth 18 million a season. Runs and rbi are not always dependent on your teammates. If Ichiro would hit more home runs his run total and rbi stats would go up. Many mariner players have said Ichiro could lead them in home runs if he wanted to. He chooses to hit singles so that his hit total goes up. He is also not a team player. Played center for a while decided he didn't like it. Told management to move him back to right field. This was not a good move for the team. But he was willing to play Center for Japan in the wbc go figure. Ichiro will only do what is best for Ichiro and not the team. Nick Markakis numbers are similar to Ichiro and he makes 3.35 million.

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    Fangraphs says that Ichiro! is worth $20.1 million this year. Gutierrez is worth $21.2 million (I love the new management). This only takes into consideration his on the field value. Ichiro! is a hero in Japan and very popular in the US. I really don't know how you can say that he is not worth his salary. You say he doesn't get along with teammates. First of all, chemistry is overrated. I think it is more of a product of winning and losing rather than the other way around. I know at work when things are slow people annoy me a lot less. Also the main guys complaining about Ichiro! were Silva and JJ Putz. How are those guys doing this year?

    Here is a list of Ichiro!'s awards:

    2001 - Gold Glove (AL) (OF)
    2001 - MVP (AL)
    2001 - Rookie of the Year (AL)
    2001 - Silver Slugger (AL) (OF)
    2002 - Gold Glove (AL) (OF)
    2003 - Gold Glove (AL) (OF)
    2004 - Gold Glove (AL) (OF)
    2005 - Gold Glove (AL) (OF)
    2006 - Gold Glove (AL) (OF)
    2007 - All-Star MVP
    2007 - Gold Glove (AL) (OF)
    2007 - Silver Slugger (AL) (OF)
    2008 - Gold Glove (AL) (OF)

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    How can you not like this guy after seeing this?

    Ichiro!'s favorite American expression

    Warning: there is some profanity on this video

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    Never said I don't like the guy. I said I am not a huge fan. Some of the things he does rub me the wrong way. I actually kind of enjoy watching him play. My whole point is he is overpaid. If he made less than 10 million I probably wouldn't be complaining.
    Last edited by Eroop22; 09-15-2009 at 07:46 AM.

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    His job is to get on base... it is other's responsibility to get him home. He does his job... very very well. He is never going to be a power hitter. The way you make it sound is that he could hit HRs any time he wants but he just doesn't try. I think that is a totally bogus statement.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

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    Not saying BP is anything like actual pitching but Ichiro puts on quite a show. I have personally seen Ichiro take BP around 20 times and he never disappoints. Not saying he could hit home runs when ever he wants to. I do think if he wanted to he could hit 30 plus home runs. But he will never do this because it would decrease his hit totals. Other players have said he could win the home run derby if he wanted to. Putz said he would bet his whole year salary on it that he would win. Brett Boone and Mike Cameron have also said he would win. These are just a few of the players I have heard say he would win. Here is a good article about Ichiro turning down the home run derby every year.

    http://www.seattlepostglobe.org/2009...home-run-derby

    I know Ichiro gets paid to get on base. My whole point is he is overpaid he is a singles hitter who plays outstanding defense. He may be the best singles hitter of all time. But you don't pay a singles hitter 18 million. I would also assume the Mariners are paying him to advance runners. Ichiro has 1 sac fly and 2 sac hits this year. Not a team player only out for his own stats.

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    wow. its this simple: ichiro is one of the best hitters in mlb... history. top 5 hitters, ever in my book.

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    Wow I cant believe you guys don't get this. All I am saying is Ichiro is overpaid. Since we are all zags fans I will use a former zag as an example. Jason bay doesn't bat .300 and sure he strikes out fairly often. But he gets on base 200 plus times a season just like Ichiro. They may not all be hits but last time a checked a walk still got you to first base. His career on base percentage is only .001% less than Ichiro's. He also gets you about 30 home runs and 100 rbis every season. What do the Red Sox pay for this 7.8 million. So what I am saying is you could have a couple Jason Bay's for what you are paying Ichiro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eroop22 View Post
    Wow I cant believe you guys don't get this. All I am saying is Ichiro is overpaid. Since we are all zags fans I will use a former zag as an example. Jason bay doesn't bat .300 and sure he strikes out fairly often. But he gets on base 200 plus times a season just like Ichiro. They may not all be hits but last time a checked a walk still got you to first base. His career on base percentage is only .001% less than Ichiro's. He also gets you about 30 home runs and 100 rbis every season. What do the Red Sox pay for this 7.8 million. So what I am saying is you could have a couple Jason Bay's for what you are paying Ichiro.
    You do not understand baseball's salary structure at all. Jason Bay will be a free agent this year and will make a lot more money. You have to play a certain amount of years before you are eligible for free agency. That is why you have players like Bay and Franklin Gutierrez making less than others might be making for similar stats. Felix Hernandez only makes $3.8 million this year. He is easily worth what CC Sabathia makes. This does not make CC overpaid. The other part is that Ichiro generates a lot more revenue than a guy like Bay because he opens up the Mariners to the entire Japanese market. Bay is a great guy, but does he really have the international following that an Ichiro has?

    Also, I'm not sure if you even understand baseball at all. Leadoff hitters are much more rare and hard to find in baseball. There are not very many Ichiro's out there. Home run hitting outfielders, first baseman, and designated hitters are relatively easy to find. See Russel Branyan for example.

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    I know you have to be on the teams 40 man roster for six years and not have a contract the following season to be a free agent. It's not like the mariners have an open check book. What happens when Felix is a free agent and the mariners don't resign him. Are you still going to be happy with Ichiro's contract. Home run hitting outfielders are so easy to find the Mariners don't have a single outfielder with more than 16 home runs. All you need to know is Ichiro makes 4 million more than Albert Pujols. That should be enough to prove to anyone Ichiro is overpaid.

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    Lets see... he has missed exactly 16 games through last year. Has led the league in BA twice and led the league in at bats 6 times since 2001. He has been in the top 10 in runs scored every year he has played. Top 10 in triples every single year he has played. All this without resorting to the power hitters crutch of PEDs. I guess he should have roided up and hit homers instead.

    Plus, regardless of his numbers, the viewership and money they get from Japan way more than pays for his salary.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

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    I am not saying Ichiro isn't a great player. Just saying he is overpaid and not always a great teammate. He is one of the best defensive outfielders in baseball god knows he has cannon for an arm. My problem is we are paying him like he is 5 tool player and at best he is a 4 tool player. I am not going to argue my point anymore. You guys can keep drinking your Ichiro Kool Aid.

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    I am tired of your worthless arguments. It's been stated a bunch of times on here by me and LIZF that Ichiro is worth the money due to his hitting and due to his ability to draw fans and interest to the Mariners from all over. Your comparisons of the players that he makes more money than are stupid. If Albert were a free agent today he would probably sign for something like AROD money. St. Louis got a good deal with him. The numbers don't lie. He is a rare talent that just broke a record that has stood for 108 years. I have already shown you that his reputation of being a bad teammate is false and doesn't matter much anyway. Chemistry is always better when you are winning. I haven't heard anything about him being a bad teammate at all this year. Do you want to know why? It's because the team is decent this year.
    Last edited by gu03alum; 09-15-2009 at 06:22 PM.

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    gu03alum
    Sorry I offended you with my Kanye West post. I in no way meant for it to come of like I was a racist. You are right my comment was in poor taste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eroop22 View Post
    I am not saying Ichiro isn't a great player. Just saying he is overpaid and not always a great teammate. He is one of the best defensive outfielders in baseball god knows he has cannon for an arm. My problem is we are paying him like he is 5 tool player and at best he is a 4 tool player. I am not going to argue my point anymore. You guys can keep drinking your Ichiro Kool Aid.
    You are missing the point. He likely brings in millions in advertising and merchandise sales in Japan for the Mariners. I'd say he more than likely pays for his salary just based on that alone.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

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    Quote Originally Posted by gu03alum View Post
    I am tired of your worthless arguments. It's been stated a bunch of times on here by me and LIZF that Ichiro is worth the money due to his hitting and due to his ability to draw fans and interest to the Mariners from all over. Your comparisons of the players that he makes more money than are stupid. If Albert were a free agent today he would probably sign for something like AROD money. St. Louis got a good deal with him. The numbers don't lie. He is a rare talent that just broke a record that has stood for 108 years. I have already shown you that his reputation of being a bad teammate is false and doesn't matter much anyway. Chemistry is always better when you are winning. I haven't heard anything about him being a bad teammate at all this year. Do you want to know why? It's because the team is decent this year.
    Good stuff and the FanGraphs. Do you read USS Mariner? Folks over there have stated around 1/4 to 1/3 of Ichiro's salary is deferred to when he retires. This reduces his salary burden considerably and further increases his value to the team.

    Also the story from last year about Ichiro being a bad teammate is such a canard. I'm sure people in that locker room may have felt that way, but I imagine few if any of those guys who whispered such complaints have little to do with the current team.
    We lost, we won; either way we had fun. - Eduardo Galeano

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    Quote Originally Posted by xjzico View Post
    Good stuff and the FanGraphs. Do you read USS Mariner? Folks over there have stated around 1/4 to 1/3 of Ichiro's salary is deferred to when he retires. This reduces his salary burden considerably and further increases his value to the team.

    Also the story from last year about Ichiro being a bad teammate is such a canard. I'm sure people in that locker room may have felt that way, but I imagine few if any of those guys who whispered such complaints have little to do with the current team.
    Yeah, I love USSMariner. I hit it up a couple of times a day.

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    How do you like that home run?

    Ichiro! = game winner machine

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    ichiro is a HOF'r no doubt. best hitter to play the game, hes so consistent.

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