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Thread: Expanding the WCC to Ten

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by USF View Post
    I would vote Gonzaga out. If you are not happy in the little old WCC, then actively seek another conference affiliation. Many of us older guys remember when Gonzaga wasn't even an NCAA team. And we remember when you were very mediocre. And we remember your "crappy" gym. Obviously, you guys have risen to new heights. Whose to say that other WCC schools can't do the same? I think Portland is doing it right now.

    USF used to completely dominate the WC(A)C. USF had a No. 1 ranked team in the 70's. SCU had a No. 2 ranked team in the 60's. LMU went to an Elite 8with the late, great Hank Gathers. Pepperdine had many Tourney appearances in the 90's. I don't remember ever hearing another WCC team ever asking Gonzaga to leave the conference in one of their down periods.

    I think what I see on this board is a complete lack of respect for the history of this conference. We could easily argue that USF helped build what is now the WCC. No WCC team aside from USF has ever gone to a Final Four. USF did it three years in a row in the 50's (and won 2 National Championships). And SCU and SMC and LMU carried on the tradition. I have a feeling a lot of posters here never heard of Baylor, Russel, Burgess, Ogden, Cartwright or Rambis. Congrats to Gonzaga for your success, but NCAA basketball existed before 1999.

    GO DONS
    Personally, I love the WCC, but I love Gonzaga more. Wouldn't you say the same thing about USF?

    Also, whether we like it or not, appreciation of the history and nostalgia of collegiate conferences has gone by the wayside in favor of maximizing the revenue associated with college basketball and football. For example, the BCS destroyed the years and years of history associated with college's best bowl games.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by USF View Post
    I would vote Gonzaga out. If you are not happy in the little old WCC, then actively seek another conference affiliation. Many of us older guys remember when Gonzaga wasn't even an NCAA team. And we remember when you were very mediocre. And we remember your "crappy" gym. Obviously, you guys have risen to new heights. Whose to say that other WCC schools can't do the same? I think Portland is doing it right now.

    USF used to completely dominate the WC(A)C. USF had a No. 1 ranked team in the 70's. SCU had a No. 2 ranked team in the 60's. LMU went to an Elite 8with the late, great Hank Gathers. Pepperdine had many Tourney appearances in the 90's. I don't remember ever hearing another WCC team ever asking Gonzaga to leave the conference in one of their down periods.

    I think what I see on this board is a complete lack of respect for the history of this conference. We could easily argue that USF helped build what is now the WCC. No WCC team aside from USF has ever gone to a Final Four. USF did it three years in a row in the 50's (and won 2 National Championships). And SCU and SMC and LMU carried on the tradition. I have a feeling a lot of posters here never heard of Baylor, Russel, Burgess, Ogden, Cartwright or Rambis. Congrats to Gonzaga for your success, but NCAA basketball existed before 1999.

    GO DONS
    I'm pretty sure if there were internet message boards 30 years ago Dons fans would be far, far worse than what your reading here. Continue to think otherwise, by all means, because you guys practically invented arrogance.
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  3. #53
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    The problem with C-USA as opposed to the MWC is that the C-USA teams are so spread out. They go from Texas-El Paso to East Carolina. I don’t know how those teams manage to survive all the travel.

    The fact of the matter is that as others have indicated, a move to another league, going independent, etc., just isn’t going to happen for Gonzaga. It’s nothing but a fantasy thought experiment.

    I’ve been going to WCC men’s basketball games involving and not involving Gonzaga for years and years at the various campuses, and the conference is truly special and unique.

    That being said, I do think it’s a legit question whether adding Seattle U. and Denver would cause more harm than good….not just for Gonzaga, but Pepperdine, USF and everyone else. I’d like to see more current WCC teams continue to get better first.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by USF View Post
    I don't remember ever hearing another WCC team ever asking Gonzaga to leave the conference in one of their down periods.
    There were no message boards back then!
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  5. #55
    bartruff1 Guest

    Default Revenge

    Quote Originally Posted by 229SintoZag View Post
    Why? I hope you are joking, but in case you are not, please explain why you'd like to play Seattle U. I see nothing whatsoever redeeming in playing them, even now in the OOC context. They are not competitive, they drag down our RPI, they take the slot we could use against a better team, and their coach cheats in recruiting.
    I saw SU kick GU's butt for 10 years...great games...great rivalry....IMHO our RPI has had little or no effect on our seeding or success in the NCAA and we continue to schedule cupcakes ....you have your opinion and that is fine....I have a different opinion and memories... it might be interesting to talk about Gonzaga in a different conference or as a independent but I suspect the people that make these decisions are going to stay in the WCC..

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by USF View Post
    I would vote Gonzaga out. If you are not happy in the little old WCC, then actively seek another conference affiliation. Many of us older guys remember when Gonzaga wasn't even an NCAA team. And we remember when you were very mediocre. And we remember your "crappy" gym. Obviously, you guys have risen to new heights. Whose to say that other WCC schools can't do the same? I think Portland is doing it right now.

    USF used to completely dominate the WC(A)C. USF had a No. 1 ranked team in the 70's. SCU had a No. 2 ranked team in the 60's. LMU went to an Elite 8with the late, great Hank Gathers. Pepperdine had many Tourney appearances in the 90's. I don't remember ever hearing another WCC team ever asking Gonzaga to leave the conference in one of their down periods.

    I think what I see on this board is a complete lack of respect for the history of this conference. We could easily argue that USF helped build what is now the WCC. No WCC team aside from USF has ever gone to a Final Four. USF did it three years in a row in the 50's (and won 2 National Championships). And SCU and SMC and LMU carried on the tradition. I have a feeling a lot of posters here never heard of Baylor, Russel, Burgess, Ogden, Cartwright or Rambis. Congrats to Gonzaga for your success, but NCAA basketball existed before 1999.

    GO DONS
    Oh, this is good stuff. I doubt I'll be the first one (or the last) to respond to this farce. I don't know where to begin. First of all, when the Dons were a power in this league, oh wait y'all dominated the WC(A)C, there where no fan message boards to...oh yeah, there was no internet either. There was t.v. though, right? Or was it radio? One thing for sure is you guys had electricity, that much is certain. It's hard to have a debate with any of the other teams in this conference, because there's not even RECENT history of another team having sustainable success (the book is still out on SMC). Yes, there are a ton of arrogant s.o.b's on this site. But if you want to be taken seriously, your team has to do something on the court (like win).

    Edit: Had to leave in the middle of typing this response...I knew there would be many ahead of me wanting a piece of this nonsense.
    It's peanut butter jelly time!

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    Oy...the offseason.

    Sounds like we need basketball.

    USF, it's a hypothetical post which you took out of context. We don't want Gonzaga to flat out leave the conference. The debate originated with the idea of Pacific, Denver, and/or Seattle being added to the conference and how us fans would react. It's hard to argue that adding new and historically average basketball programs to the WCC is probably not the best move at this point. That's all.

    GO ZAGS
    Last edited by BroncoZAG615; 08-20-2009 at 04:01 PM. Reason: eh

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  9. #59
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    Default Usf

    Not out of context. I was really responding to the guy who called WMG "crappy" and suggested that USF be asked to leave the WCC. Then Angelo opened up the idea of "voting" some school out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I saw SU kick GU's butt for 10 years...great games...great rivalry....IMHO our RPI has had little or no effect on our seeding or success in the NCAA and we continue to schedule cupcakes ....you have your opinion and that is fine....I have a different opinion and memories... it might be interesting to talk about Gonzaga in a different conference or as a independent but I suspect the people that make these decisions are going to stay in the WCC..
    That's great but the last time this could have happened was 1980--almost 30 years ago. Apparently you think one school kicking the butt of another school for 10 years equals "great games, great rivalry." I will simply say I and most fans disagree wholeheartedly.

    Your point that in your humble opinion GU's RPI has had little or no effect on our seeding or success in the NCAA is flat false. Our RPI is the single biggest predictor of our seeding in the NCAA, and our SOS is not far behind. We cannot afford to add more games against really, really crummy teams. And this would not be a "rivalry" any more than our games against EWU have been rivalry games, for the same reason. A rivalry requires that both sides beat each other up, more or less.

    Here, I would not be surprised if Seattle U went a decade or more without ever beating Gonzaga.

    The days of the O'Briens and Elgin Baylor are ancient history. As a season ticket holder, I probably wouldn't even go the the SU games, especially since their coach cheats in recruiting.

  11. #61
    bartruff1 Guest

    Default Please Sinto...

    It was actually 50 years ago...I don't have much time left... let me have this moment of cold soup...please....and after I am gone you can build up your f'ing RPI or is it RIP ? I forgot...

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by USF View Post
    Not out of context. I was really responding to the guy who called WMG "crappy" and suggested that USF be asked to leave the WCC. Then Angelo opened up the idea of "voting" some school out.
    I think you missed the humor in the vote off the island comment. And this subject gets brought up every 6 months or so and seems to always ends up the same way.

    GU is not going to leave the WCC unless some very significant things change. With the new commish I do not see that happening anytime soon from the offices of the WCC. Now the way the old commish was doing things that is another story. A lot of things would have to change on the GU end for a change and "no one knows" and his brother "who knows" are in charge of that.

    GU does not want to "vote anyone off" the way things stand, and the average GU fan knows this and agrees. That is the problem with message boards, one person's opinion can paint an erroneous picture of the members.

    I do think GU fans (and I hope all WCC team fans) wants the league to approach things from a fair and balanced perspective and not a GU vs the rest of the WCC approach. GU has worked extremely hard to get where they are and work harder every year to not only stay there but to improve and keep making those steps to get to the highest level they can. I think it frustrates some GU folks when others schools in the conference do things that clearly show they are not as committed to those same goals.
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  13. #63
    bartruff1 Guest

    Default It's embarassing...

    Quote Originally Posted by pdine View Post
    Be happy with what you've got, my goodness!! You have flat-out dominated the WCC this past decade, but regain some perspective by taking a look at the previous decades.

    Don't wonder why WCC fans are quick to stereotype Zag fans after seeing yet another thread like this one. (Yes, there are reasonable Zag fans, but you're being overshadowed right now...)
    I agree with you completely. Some of the comments in here are rude and arrogant . Some of these know it all experts could use a few years of 9-16 to learn some humility and gratitude. It makes no sense to me to insult your competition or demean your league....

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB4 View Post
    Everyone knows what the basketball team has done for GU athletically and academically so why not have a football team and truly be the Notre Dame of the West? Yes this would be a huge step financially and otherwise but in five to ten years it would be very beneficial. Spokane could easily pack Albi every Saturday.
    1 in 100,000,000. Football is a different game than basketball. I can't see football being anything but a dollar drain at a school like Gonzaga. If anything, the lack of a football team has helped the basketball team (at least as I see it).

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    Default I did say it would upset some

    Well, I know it upsets Mr. USF, that is for sure, but the question needs to be asked if we want to banty about the subject of the WCC's future. In any event, none of us have any power and this is all just an academic discussion.

    However, I would ask Mr. USF, if Gonzaga can get its act together and build a new arena, as well as SMC, USD and a major remodel at Santa Clara, why can't USF? I don't even hear any discussion in that direction.

    I am all for the wonders of ancient history, but frankly I don't know if USF's War Memorial Coliseum was named for WWI, WWII or The Spanish-American War. Don't get mad at me. Get mad at your administration and alums for letting a proud tradition slip. Replacing a conference member is a perfectly legitimate discussion. The WCC/WCAC has had a number of membership changes over the years. This is not a discussion without precedent.

  16. #66

    Default like the mtn west idea

    good schools and they have been very strong in other sports, especially football (UT and TCU ranked very high accross the nation)

  17. #67
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    I would like DU. They actually bring a very strong athletic tradition. They would mesh well with the WCC in most of their sports. Their men's soccer team is ranked and the women's is the best in the Sun Belt Conference. Their hockey team without a doubt stays in the western collegiate hockey association. They also have a strong ski team, one of the best in the nation.
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I agree with you completely. Some of the comments in here are rude and arrogant . Some of these know it all experts could use a few years of 9-16 to learn some humility and gratitude. It makes no sense to me to insult your competition or demean your league....
    agreed.

    the talk on these issues make me think that many (not all) on here have very limited perspective or a faulty memory, or simply started being gonzaga fans about 10 years ago. either way, its all cyclical, and one day some of these very same people will be thankful for the wcc.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by USF View Post
    And we remember your "crappy" gym.
    Do you mean the Kennedy or the gym in the ad building?

    I don't think that the Kennedy was so crappy, and it is hard for me to believe that you are old enough to remember the gym in the ad building.

  20. #70
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    GU leaving the WCC is simply a silly argument. It will never happen. The WCC is a fine conference and in all sports but bball is a good fit for GU. The bball team has built a formula around being a WCC member and managed to succeed fantastically over the last decade. GU ain't leaving. No reason to have this discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by pdine View Post
    I think it's definitely worth a debate. However, I would side with the 'it will dilute the conference' crowd.

    On a slight side-note (expanding WCC would initially dilute each school's monies, right?), I don't mind that some of our gyms are 3,500. Instead, spend some on fixing them up aesthetically, but create state-of-the-art training facilities to better lure recruits that way. Yeah, they're smaller arenas, and Rupp Arena's size alone can be intimidating. But when our intimate shoeboxes/high school gyms are packed I can't imagine any atmosphere more obnoxious to opposing players/coaches. That's college basketball at its finest, to me.
    Now, about adding teams - beyond GU, it's much worse for other WCC members (on the whole). Yes, they wouldn't have to schedule a couple of extra games every season, but with a team like Seattle U who will kill their RPI any teams, like last year's SMC squad, who are on the edge of the bubble of NCAA consideration (or NIT consideration, for that matter) will get a push in the wrong direction by adding more bottom feeders.

    GU will still most like make the Dance because of it's OOC scheduling, but other good WCC member schools, like good mids everywhere, have trouble getting the games. Then we end up in March with teams like SMC in the NIT and Jay Bilas pontificating about why so-and-so should even be allowed to believe they have a chance to think about getting in the NCAAs because 'who have they played, Seattle U?'

  21. #71
    WestsideZag2424 Guest

    Default Why are people so opposed to SU?

    Lots of people are saying that by adding Seattle U the WCC would somehow become weaker. That's ridiculous. I believe they would very quickly become one of the better teams in the conference and would give us good competition year in and year out. They went 1-1 against WCC teams this year in their first year back as a D1 team, so they really don't have far to go i believe. Cameron Dollar will be a great coach after learning from Romar and by being in Seattle they'll easily recruit there. They also have history which includes a national title game appearance (which we unfortunately cannot claim). They are a jesuit school in a major west coast city, so they seem to fit the mold.

    As for the other team, adding Pacific would also be good i think. They are always at least decent (which is more than you can say about LMU).

    This move will be great, and i'm really looking forward to when it happens

  22. #72
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    Add Seattle U and Pacific. I don't give a damn about RPI.

    Win your conference tourney and you get into the dance. It is that simple.

    After two rounds in the NCAA tournament, seeding doesn't mean squat. Either your team has the goods or it doesn't.

    RPI means nothing to me. It is a "quantifiable" means for BCS schools to tout how much better they are than non-BCS schools. It is an argument for Jay Bilas to beat up on mid majors. Nothing more.

    Plus, I like the notion of adding two more teams to finish above USF in the conference standings. Bury them deeper baby!
    I miss Mike Hart

  23. #73
    bartruff1 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by MickMick View Post
    Add Seattle U and Pacific. I don't give a damn about RPI.

    Win your conference tourney and you get into the dance. It is that simple.

    After two rounds in the NCAA tournament, seeding doesn't mean squat. Either your team has the goods or it doesn't.

    RPI means nothing to me. It is a "quantifiable" means for BCS schools to tout how much better they are than non-BCS schools. It is an argument for Jay Bilas to beat up on mid majors. Nothing more.

    Plus, I like the notion of adding two more teams to finish above USF in the conference standings. Bury them deeper baby!
    ...Perfect..I would say after one round ....I have yet to see a correlation between RPI and success in the Tourney. I really don't believe it is worth all the bedwetting and hand wringing...show me me some data !!! USF has a pround history...

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    ...Perfect..I would say after one round ....I have yet to see a correlation between RPI and success in the Tourney. I really don't believe it is worth all the bedwetting and hand wringing...show me me some data !!! USF has a proud history...
    No doubt that USF has a proud history. Russell was one of the greatest. Too bad that a portion of their fan base has evolved into sniveling whiners that moan about anything Gonzaga.

    I guess it may be the ultimate compliment, but blatant jealousy doesn't reflect well on the WCC. With just a tad bit more of class I would hold them in the same well respected regard I have for the other WCC schools. A regard high enough that I wouldn't dream of considering that Gonzaga leave the WCC. I believe in the conference as it stands. It has grown strong enough to absorb a couple of more teams. The new coaches are recruiting very well and the conference is on the rise. There is a reason that teams are petitioning to join.
    I miss Mike Hart

  25. #75
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    There's a lot of talk in this threadabout Gonzaga's continued success; it appears that some are making assumptions of unlimited future success based on 10-15 years of past success. Pretty dubious, if you ask me. My suggestion: enjoy the ride.

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