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Thread: OT: Playing overseas vs NBA

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    Default OT: Playing overseas vs NBA

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...aftTour-090527


    • Everyone is scratching their heads about Nick Calathes' decision to sign with Panathinaikos of Greece. I'm not.

    Here's what's not being reported. Calathes' three-year, 2.1 million euro contract is worth more than you think. Given the exchange rate, that's $3 million guaranteed. Now here's the kicker: that's Calathes' net, not his gross. European contracts take care of taxes, an apartment, car, travel and living expenses. So Calathes' take-home pay comes with many perks.

    He'd have to get a contract starting at roughly $2 million per year to make up the difference. He'd have to be a lottery pick to manage that.

    As for concerns about a huge NBA buyout, the buyout is $500,000 (and the NBA team that drafts him can pay the entire amount) and he can return to the NBA after one year in Europe.

    But money isn't the only thing. He also knows he'll play a prominent role on Panathinaikos next season. The teams that were looking at drafting him this year -- Dallas was the hottest for him -- couldn't offer the same guarantee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobZag View Post
    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...aftTour-090527


    • Everyone is scratching their heads about Nick Calathes' decision to sign with Panathinaikos of Greece. I'm not.

    Here's what's not being reported. Calathes' three-year, 2.1 million euro contract is worth more than you think. Given the exchange rate, that's $3 million guaranteed. Now here's the kicker: that's Calathes' net, not his gross. European contracts take care of taxes, an apartment, car, travel and living expenses. So Calathes' take-home pay comes with many perks.

    He'd have to get a contract starting at roughly $2 million per year to make up the difference. He'd have to be a lottery pick to manage that.

    As for concerns about a huge NBA buyout, the buyout is $500,000 (and the NBA team that drafts him can pay the entire amount) and he can return to the NBA after one year in Europe.

    But money isn't the only thing. He also knows he'll play a prominent role on Panathinaikos next season. The teams that were looking at drafting him this year -- Dallas was the hottest for him -- couldn't offer the same guarantee.

    Not a bad deal, especially since nothing is guaranteed in the NBA, and he was a late 1st round pick anyway. The guy I read is also Greek so all around, its a good situation for him.

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    Default caveat emptor

    Quote Originally Posted by hoopster777 View Post
    Not a bad deal, especially since nothing is guaranteed in the NBA, and he was a late 1st round pick anyway. The guy I read is also Greek so all around, its a good situation for him.
    Virtually every one of our stars has had huge problems getting paid overseas.

    There was a thread on it (I started it) right here, last year, quoting Matt santangelo, going through calvary (interviewed in the paper), Frahm, Dickau, having to move multiple times amid constant problems trying to get the money they were promised.

    The four above, in my memory, all claim the teams they played on still owe them money to this day. Raivio was in some kind of financial bind last year, too, if memory serves.

    JP Batista is the only person I haven't heard is having a problem But he has switched teams and I wouldn't be surprised if it also involved promises made versus promises kept. Santangelo was real clear: it's a pattern among too many euro teams.

    so our friend here appears to be heading into a great deal. I hope he insists on the money out front.

    Otherwise, it could be just another of those deals that looks great at first whiff, gets lots of ink and lots of other players' hopes up, and then disappears.

    fwiw.
    Last edited by gamagin; 05-28-2009 at 01:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gamagin View Post
    Virtually every one of our stars has had huge problems getting paid overseas.

    There was a thread on it (I started it) right here, last year, quoting Matt santos, going through calvary (interviewed in the paper), Frahm, Dickau, having to move multiple times amid constant problems trying to get the money they were promised.

    The four above, in my memory, all claim the teams they played on still owe them money to this day. Raivio was in some kind of financial bind last year, too, if memory serves.

    JP Batista is the only person I haven't heard is having a problem But he has switched teams and I wouldn't be surprised if it also involved promises made versus promises kept. Santos was real clear: it's a pattern among too many euro teams.

    so our friend here appears to be heading into a great deal. I hope he insists on the money out front.

    Otherwise, it could be just another of those deals that looks great at first whiff, gets lots of ink and lots of other players' hopes up, and then disappears.

    fwiw.
    Just a minor point, that is Santangelo, not Santos.
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    Default right you are

    Quote Originally Posted by a13coach View Post
    Just a minor point, that is Santangelo, not Santos.
    thanks

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    im with gamagin...european basketball is not an equal alternative to the NBA. just because that is what is in Calathes' contract doesn't mean thats what he's getting paid. they still have a long way to go before they are seen in the same eyes as the NBA. Greek ball may be a little different, with several very, very wealthy owners. admittedly, im not sure exactly how it all works, but NBA=europe

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    You can never really fault a kid for taking millions of dollars to play a game; however, I seriously doubt this is in his long term best interest. Even if he gets all that is promised to him in the contract (which seems to rarely happen in Europe), even if he plays a prominent role on the team (which is no guarantee - there is always an adjustment period), and even if the exchange rate remains favorable (everyone thinks it will so it probably won't), it will be a long road to get into the NBA. First, I think he'd be better off going back to school and working towards a degree. But if the lure of $ is too much, I still think he'd be better off staying here. If he's a lottery pick, great, but if not, he probably gets drafted into a much better situation than most lottery picks do and would have a better environment to succeed. He could always go play in Europe later.

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    Default Euroleague teams

    Quote Originally Posted by KennewickZag View Post
    You can never really fault a kid for taking millions of dollars to play a game; however, I seriously doubt this is in his long term best interest. Even if he gets all that is promised to him in the contract (which seems to rarely happen in Europe), even if he plays a prominent role on the team (which is no guarantee - there is always an adjustment period), and even if the exchange rate remains favorable (everyone thinks it will so it probably won't), it will be a long road to get into the NBA. First, I think he'd be better off going back to school and working towards a degree. But if the lure of $ is too much, I still think he'd be better off staying here. If he's a lottery pick, great, but if not, he probably gets drafted into a much better situation than most lottery picks do and would have a better environment to succeed. He could always go play in Europe later.
    Euroleague teams like the one that Nick signed up with are very high profile with some games drawing 20,000 people. They are televised to international audiences. The top domestic leagues like Spain, Italy, Greece, and France have huge followings. Once you get to the lower leagues like Poland, Germany (where Derek played) and The Ukraine (Kuso) the exposure and money are not as solid.

    The other point is that the lifestyle is different, I have read where many players really enjoy the more laid back lifestyle in some of the smaller leagues.

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    The NBA is the best league with the best players, all basketball players should strive to play in it. Even if his opportunity in the NBA is limited i.e. not dressing or coming off the bench, I still believe it is much better than leading a team of lesser talent. The Euro game is great but the NBA is still the best, to opt for a lower level of competition makes zero sense to me.

    Top recruits out of high school who opt to take the Euro route over the NCAA is a whole different story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB4 View Post
    The NBA is the best league with the best players, all basketball players should strive to play in it. Even if his opportunity in the NBA is limited i.e. not dressing or coming off the bench, I still believe it is much better than leading a team of lesser talent. The Euro game is great but the NBA is still the best, to opt for a lower level of competition makes zero sense to me.

    Top recruits out of high school who opt to take the Euro route over the NCAA is a whole different story.
    I'd say the playing field is leveling. Thats why the NBA wants to expand to Europe (no idea how it would work). These teams could easily get bought out by billionaire money (ala Roman Abramovich) and turn them into their own personal toys. Since there is no salary cap in European basketball, its not out of the question to offer extravagant contracts. Since many of the players live paycheck to paycheck anyway, a deal 2 or 3 times the deal in America seems pretty nice. Honestly, unless the NBA can increase the maximum contracts, I would not be the least surprised to see a caliber talent of Chris Bosh or Dwayne Wade get offered 30-40 million dollars. We probably won't see any of those types of talents bolting for the higher contract until the quality of the game increases overseas. Its also a different style of play. But if the money is there, hard to imagine some players don't take the change.

    This past year was really the first time we saw high profile players leave for Europe (Brandon Jennings and Josh Childress). I wouldn't be surprised to see 3-4 guys in the offseason leave to Europe, especially with the economic conditions (NBA teams will not meet their bid or salary cap conditions prevent offers to meet players bid). Some European teams flush with money (Maccabi Tel Aviv, CSKA Moscow, Panthaniakos, etc.) will be offering the contracts this upcoming offseason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OZZag View Post
    Euroleague teams like the one that Nick signed up with are very high profile with some games drawing 20,000 people. They are televised to international audiences. The top domestic leagues like Spain, Italy, Greece, and France have huge followings. Once you get to the lower leagues like Poland, Germany (where Derek played) and The Ukraine (Kuso) the exposure and money are not as solid.

    The other point is that the lifestyle is different, I have read where many players really enjoy the more laid back lifestyle in some of the smaller leagues.
    If he was to play in Europe, Greece is the place to be.

    The Spanish, Greek, Italian and French leagues are the most established, but I think the guy who owns Olimpiacos may be the wealthiest owner of all the European clubs. I remember seeing something last summer saying he would pay $50 million to bring Kobe or LeBron to Europe. Wouldn't be surprising if Kobe pulled a Beckham and decided to finish his career in Europe, with a hefty contract on the side.

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    the nba is by far the best league in the world. even when we send the right team to the olympics we prove that. kobe and bron know nba titles is how they will be judged when they are retired, and each wants that more than anything.

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    Default Europe

    History tells us there have been two problems related to playing professional BB in Europe. The first problem has been getting paid, but I think that the new wave of kids going to Europe are smarter (or have better attorneys) than the older guys. In God We Trust. All Others Pay Cash in Advance!

    The second problem faced by a lot of kids has been lack of exposure and the inability to return to the US / NBA system following a year or two or three of obscure toil in Europe (especially Southern and Eastern Europe). But with the renewed interest in European BB and the substantial number of European players being drafted by NBA teams (not to mention the occasional high profile kid choosing Europe over college), it seems that Europe is not the black hole of obscurity that it once was for BB players.

    I think most kids will be better off going to the NBA even if it means riding the bench for 2 years before getting some action. But I respect that for those that would like to play NOW and not ride the pine for a couple of years, Europe is the best alternative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 75Zag View Post
    History tells us there have been two problems related to playing professional BB in Europe. The first problem has been getting paid, but I think that the new wave of kids going to Europe are smarter (or have better attorneys) than the older guys. In God We Trust. All Others Pay Cash in Advance!

    The second problem faced by a lot of kids has been lack of exposure and the inability to return to the US / NBA system following a year or two or three of obscure toil in Europe (especially Southern and Eastern Europe). But with the renewed interest in European BB and the substantial number of European players being drafted by NBA teams (not to mention the occasional high profile kid choosing Europe over college), it seems that Europe is not the black hole of obscurity that it once was for BB players.

    I think most kids will be better off going to the NBA even if it means riding the bench for 2 years before getting some action. But I respect that for those that would like to play NOW and not ride the pine for a couple of years, Europe is the best alternative.

    Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

    Just take a look at how soccer popularized around the world to see how the stage can and will even out in basketball competitiveness. Remember, it was only 9 years ago that the US was exposed to the increased talent worldwide at the Olympic games. Just 9 years. Imagine what the talent worldwide will be in 20 years, when a new generation grows up on increased basketball interest around the world. It will be a good thing for the game.

    Basketball in many countries rivals the popularity of soccer. I honestly think within two decades, it will easily be the world's 2nd internationalized sport, and will really give soccer a run for popularity (I'd say its a close tie between basketball, baseball, cricket, and rugby for 2nd most popular international team sport)

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