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Thread: Knight Says to Shake Up Lineup

  1. #1
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    Default Knight Says to Shake Up Lineup

    So if Few agrees with Knight and shakes up the lineup against St. Mary's to "send a message" to his team, how about:
    Heytvelt
    Downs
    Bouldin
    Gray
    Goodson
    with Ira! the first off the bench?

  2. #2
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    I don't quite agree with starting the next game with a different lineup. All that is going to do is shake the confidence of those players even more and that is the last thing the Zags need.

    Instead use this as a coaching opportunity and drill it all week long. It should be very apparent to those players what is needed to improve their games. However if they come out and give that effort again Few should go to that second group again to remind those starters how they should 'want' to win.

  3. #3
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    I would say to NOT change the current lineup because vs St. Mary's the current lineup is good. Vs a Memphis there isn't a lineup that could get it done unless some players add significant elements to their game that they currently don't have.

    I think it's one of those games where you have to accept that they're the much better team that could reach an Elite 8 and that if GU tries to do too much tinkering then they will lose what they currently have that works vs WCC and lower-level comp.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by btzag View Post
    I don't quite agree with starting the next game with a different lineup. All that is going to do is shake the confidence of those players even more and that is the last thing the Zags need.

    Instead use this as a coaching opportunity and drill it all week long. It should be very apparent to those players what is needed to improve their games. However if they come out and give that effort again Few should go to that second group again to remind those starters how they should 'want' to win.
    How can you say that? Pargo has been poor all year and Daye needs a lesson in maturity and benching him might do it. Move on to Goodson. How sad is it to have your senior point guard on the bench at the end of the game.

  5. #5
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    Shaking up the lineup wouldn't be my first thought either. Just saying Knight said it, so going with his "what if...?".
    But I would like Few to sub more quickly. When we opened the second half no better than the first, he should have put in Ira! and Meech for energy. He didn't put them in until we had played another 12 minutes.

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    Default not gonna happen

    few would rather comb his hair back than to bench his beloved pgo.....just wont happen.

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    The fact is without Pargo playing well we don't have a shot at making a deep run in March. Benching him will only hurt his confidence. We need him to get that confidence back, because he is far and away the most important part of this team.

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    Default are u kidding?

    Quote Originally Posted by zagfan08 View Post
    The fact is without Pargo playing well we don't have a shot at making a deep run in March. Benching him will only hurt his confidence. We need him to get that confidence back, because he is far and away the most important part of this team.
    HUH????

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    Jeremy Pargo is the most important player on this team. When he plays well, we play well. When he doesn't, we are average at best.

    If we want to make a deep run in the tourney then we need Pargo playing up to his ability. I think we need to let the senior play through his mistakes and get back into the groove he had last year and the start of this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagfan08 View Post
    The fact is without Pargo playing well we don't have a shot at making a deep run in March. Benching him will only hurt his confidence. We need him to get that confidence back, because he is far and away the most important part of this team.
    I disagree in that I think that we have plenty of OTHER talent to win in a game besides Pargo.

    However, I agree with you in the sense that Whenever we lose in the tournament, it will be a night that Pargo played like today.
    Krozman
    GU student 1996-2000
    Law Student 2000-2003

  11. #11
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    Default I see the points being made ...

    And I agree with both JazzD and the ppl commenting against it..

    Few knows Pargo better than we all do...is JP too sensitive to maybe take a benching next game for Goodson? If the answer is yes, then doing it may cause Post-UConn-flakeout Part 2

    Pargo is still a better shooter than Goodson, and I think Goodson playing 30 mins eventually will be exposed offensively vs the better teams this year because they will just leave him wide open and dare him to shoot and live with the 20% from 3 he'll shoot.

    I think you make minor changes rather than drastic moves such as completely changing the identity of the team.

    1000% agree with the poster that says whenever this season ends, it will be a game that the opposing coach completely tries to take Pargo out of the game and that will finish us, giving a bad ending to what otherwise will be a great career that will pass the torch on to a potential upgrade in Goodson

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagcoug View Post
    How can you say that? Pargo has been poor all year and Daye needs a lesson in maturity and benching him might do it. Move on to Goodson. How sad is it to have your senior point guard on the bench at the end of the game.
    I suppose if your thought is to beat your players down and to teach them that if they don't play up to your standards then they will sit then that might be a good idea. In fact, I think you might be right, let's just punish these players away since we are all so disappointed by this game... Give me a break.

    Both guys are good players that had bad games and if they had played like this all year this team would be under .500 and neither guy would be starting. There was a reason he was on the bench at the end of the game, as was Bouldin and Daye, they stunk and others were getting it down. That is a team, you lift each other up, not tear each other down as you are suggesting for the next game and beyond.

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    We got intimidated and were up against better athletes. Forget about finessing a team like Memphis. You had better stand up to them or you will leave minus you're lunch money and sand in you're eyes. We simply weren't use to this level of athlete and didn't know how to react. The reason why meech was effective was because he does have the speed of the Memphis players AND he wasn't intimidated. I also think Memphis is better than their ranking...they are much better than when I saw them earlier. Those bcs schools are lucky they aren't playing Memphis about now. Its the coaches call on who starts.

  14. #14

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    Pargo has played poorly all year not just this game. At what point do you need to try a different approach with Pargo? I dont think Pargo is a good point guard at all and disagree with your premise.
    I think Goodson would be better for the team at this point.
    Daye is a good player but is immature, everyone can see that. Poor EFFORT cannot be rewarded with playing time. I'm not talking about not hitting shots but not running and hustling as Few was quoted as yelling at Daye.

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    The problem is that Pargo is still a dominant guard within the WCC. See the Portland game. Most guards within the league don't have a prayer of guarding him, and with Patty Mills being out, SMC is likely going to struggle with him as well. There's less incentive to make a change. There are no Antonio Anderson/Tyreke Evans guys within GU's conference.

    If Demetri Goodson ever wants to start at PG in this program, he has to stop hand checking and picking up cheap fouls. He's too overly aggressive on defense at times. I love his energy, but he has to stay on the court. He doesn't need to be that aggressive to be a good defender.

  16. #16

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    Arent we trying to compete nationally though? Of course Pargo is good enough for the WCC it's a weak league that doesn't prepare us for the tourney or games like this.
    Pargo isn't even playing that well in league though actually. He was horrible against even Pepperdine! I know it won't happen but Meech has more more heart and should start.
    Who do you think Knight was talking about when he said shaking up the lineup?

  17. #17
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    Knight is a HOF'er but if the Zags ever took on his personality and opinions I would no longer be a fan. Don't forget he is just a talking head now who probably saw the Zags play for the first time all year.

    Also don't forget that these so-called experts were calling this a home game even though they know it is not their home court. Lots of neutral fans out there right now probably think that Spokane Arena is somehow K2.

    Like I said before, Few might need to have a quicker trigger when effort is in question but at this point in the season there is no way that you bench your senior pg in favor of a true freshman. Daye is an even more difficult decision because they have zero backups for him. They need him like no other player on their team and that is just a fact. I know he needs to grow as a player but we have seen his effort before and we will see it again soon.

  18. #18
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    Arent we trying to compete nationally though? Of course Pargo is good enough for the WCC it's a weak league that doesn't prepare us for the tourney or games like this.
    The problem is that the non-league schedule is over, and we're nearing mid-February. The priority is to win the league at this point. Pargo has had more good games than bad games in league play so far. He was the WCC player of the year for a reason last season. SMC's guards really struggled with him in the 2nd half last week. He presents too many matchup advantages to sit him, even when he's turning it over and making some bad decisions.

    Bob Knight is not aware of the personnel that exists within the WCC, and he hasn't seen Pargo play enough within the WCC. He's been coaching too much Big 12 and Big 10 basketball.

    I've seen Coach Few operate enough to know he would never start an inexperienced freshman PG in the environment Gonzaga's going into Thursday night unless that PG was Derrick Rose. It's just not what he does as a coach. And he especially wouldn't make such a move with just a few weeks left in the regular season.

  19. #19

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    If Sacre comes back next week we could do a lot more with our lineup.
    Move Heytvelt to power forward where he's a more natural fit; Downs/Daye to small forward, Bouldin to the two and Meech/Pargo to the one.

  20. #20

    Default How about

    Going back to the ORIGINAL starting 5 that won the OSC???

    DOWNS, PARGO, HEYTVELT, BOULDIN, and DAYE???

    Quick trigger for lack of effort and/or energy! Sub more, play harder! Ira, Meech, and Gray in quick. NOT 8 to 12 minutes into a half! We play like spoiled kids sometimes. With an attitude of "Entitlement" instead of a survivor/fighter.

    Adversity is not our friend, we need to play through it. The officiating was horrific tonight, like 2 completely different games at each end of the floor. Mauled at one end without a whistle and quick whistles at the other end. But instead of playing through it and getting pissed, we cry.

    What happened to black jerseys??? We should have worn pink! Maybe Few could make them wear PINK until they show otherwise.

  21. #21
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    It sure would be nice to have Rob back...It would have been nice to have more muscle in there. We got killed on the boards....If Rob is cleared, screw the redshirt. Having Josh and Rob in there would change things.

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    Yeah, we need Rob back on the floor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    The problem is that the non-league schedule is over, and we're nearing mid-February. The priority is to win the league at this point. Pargo has had more good games than bad games in league play so far. He was the WCC player of the year for a reason last season. SMC's guards really struggled with him in the 2nd half last week. He presents too many matchup advantages to sit him, even when he's turning it over and making some bad decisions.

    Bob Knight is not aware of the personnel that exists within the WCC, and he hasn't seen Pargo play enough within the WCC. He's been coaching too much Big 12 and Big 10 basketball.
    I've seen Coach Few operate enough to know he would never start an inexperienced freshman PG in the environment Gonzaga's going into Thursday night unless that PG was Derrick Rose. It's just not what he does as a coach. And he especially wouldn't make such a move with just a few weeks left in the regular season.

    I think Bob Knight is more aware of the personnel that exists in the WCC as much as anyone in the country. He isn't saying to shakeup the lineup because he doesn't think Pargo is a good point guard. The reason why he is saying that is so it will light a fire under his @ss. Imagine how fired up Pargo would be next game if he came off the bench after about five minutes into the game. It has absolutely nothing to do with Pargo's matchup advantages or his ability....it's all about intensity or lack thereof. Pargo and others showed zero intensity tonight and that is the reason Bob said to "shake it up".

  24. #24
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    I think Bob Knight is more aware of the personnel that exists in the WCC as much as anyone in the country.
    There are people who rarely post on this board that know 10x more about what goes on in the WCC than he does. Red Sweater is being paid by ESPN to analyze BCS level basketball - mainly involving teams from the midwest and back east. I would be willing to bet he couldn't name you one player on LMU's roster, and maybe even 2 or 3 head coaches in the WCC. That guy's in bed dreaming of the deer he's going to be hunting the next morning by the time most WCC games tip off. Most national sportswriters and TV analysts don't know squat about the WCC and its personnel ....he doesn't either.

    That being said, I think he's a very good game analyst. He's kind of like Rick Majerus, but with a much better delivery.

  25. #25
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    In then end we want to contend in the NCAA tourney. We need to find that starting 5 that will get us there. I believe with the change in the lineup GU still wins in the WCC. Goodson started slow as he made turnovers but he made up for it in the second half. Pargo has given up. He is hurting the team and deserves to be benched. There is not way to change his confidence at this point. I am sure Few has done everything to help Pargo and Pargo has not responded. I would rather see a team that plays hard and has emotion and lose the WCC then a team that has no emotion and selectively plays hard and wins the WCC but gets slaughtered in the tournament. What are we really trying to accomplish here?

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