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pbriz
02-13-2008, 01:47 PM
If you want to know where our program is headed, just look to UNC. And I will explain.

1. Roy Williams is one of only two coaches who had a better start to his coaching career. Williams has an offensive based system that thrives on tempo, very similar to Fews offensive approach.

2. Williams develops his players for success in the NBA. This is a trend we are moving towards right now. Perhaps it is the approach of our offenses that mirrors that of the NBA or perhaps it is the charisma of our coaches, either way it translates to success on the next level.

3. While UNC gets top recruits yearly, they seem to mirror the players Few looks for. Goodson is the next coming of Lawson. And who played for UNC before Lawson, yes that was Raymond Felton, whos game is very similar to Pargos in that they get into the lane and create.

has anyone watched Wayne Ellington play, yes he may be afew steps ahead but his game is almost exact to that of Steven Gray.

And what about the 3 spot? Danny Green and Micah Downs are essentially the same person in their ability to come off the bench, make defensive plays, and spark the offense.

And while we do not have a dominant inside player like Tyler Hansbrough as of now, did Ronny Turiaf not have the same heart, soul, and compassion for the game that Hansbrough has currently?

It's funny, because we didn't know about Daye almost going to UNC, but UNC also recruited Theo Davis, Pargo (tho they never offered, but it was his first choice), Heytvelt, and now they are going after Brad Tinsley. They also managed to nab Deon Thompson from us.

4. And finally, while the ACC has football, the heart and soul of ACC is basketball and soccer. While we are definitely a step behind, the WCC is moving towards that same approach. Santa Clara has asserted itself, as well as Portland as powerhouses in atleast women's soccer (much like UNC and Maryland).


So the real question is, who is going to emerge as the "Duke" in our conference and produce the true WCC rivalry we have been waiting for?

PortlandbasedZag
02-13-2008, 01:56 PM
So the real question is, who is going to emerge as the "Duke" in our conference and produce the true WCC rivalry we have been waiting for?

They only problem is...one of the thing that makes that rivarly so good is the...what...8 miles of separation? So while a great rivarly could certainly develop, I wonder if it will ever be as great as that one....

CDC84
02-13-2008, 02:43 PM
It is well known that one of Few’s closest buddies in the coaching community is Roy Williams. He was the first coach to call Few after the Josh/Theo incident. I also know that Few has always admired Williams, even going back to his days at Kansas. If you watch UNC play with guys like Ty Lawson or Raymond Felton running the show, you can see a lot of the similarities between the two programs. Both programs put a premium on attacking defenses in transition and forcing opposing offenses to shoot over the top of their defense.

I just wish Gonzaga could consistently get the kinds of players that Carolina does. Williams is the best recruiter in the game right now....he gets his pick of the kitty litter.

208Zag
02-13-2008, 04:02 PM
Nice try but GU has a long, long way to go before we can compare our program to UNC and Coach Few to Roy Williams. Don't get me wrong Few's winning percentage is great but he picked-up half of those wins against the WCC vs Williams getting half (or more) of his wins against the ACC, HUGE difference.

GoZags
02-13-2008, 04:11 PM
Nice try but GU has a long, long way to go before we can compare our program to UNC and Coach Few to Roy Williams. Don't get me wrong Few's winning percentage is great but he picked-up half of those wins against the WCC vs Williams getting half (or more) of his wins against the ACC, HUGE difference.

Good point.

Few's OOC record as a standalone is in the Top 25 in terms of winning percentage (if you look at just OOC For Fewie vs everyone else's overall percentage). But that, too is subjective.

I guess the only thing to do is look at head to head between Few and Gonzaga and Williams and UNC.

Robzagnut
02-13-2008, 04:14 PM
>Don't get me wrong Few's winning percentage is great but he picked-up half of those wins against the WCC vs Williams getting half (or more) of his wins against the ACC, HUGE difference.

Isn't Coach Few 7-1 against the ACC and 1-0 against Williams?

Thomas_Sutpen
02-13-2008, 04:17 PM
If you want to know where our program is headed, just look to UNC.

1. Roy Williams is one of only two coaches who had a better start to his coaching career. Williams has an offensive based system that thrives on tempo, very similar to Fews offensive approach.



I like your style and optimism, pbriz, but there may have been another coach at UNC some years ago who had a little something to do with its tradition.

What was his name? Jones? Miller? Ah, yes, Smith.

I agree that we're on the upswing, sir, but we ain't Carolina just yet.

Let's make a Final Four appearance or two, maybe win a title, before we get carried away.

ZagNative
02-13-2008, 04:30 PM
Nice try but GU has a long, long way to go before we can compare our program to UNC and Coach Few to Roy Williams. Don't get me wrong Few's winning percentage is great but he picked-up half of those wins against the WCC vs Williams getting half (or more) of his wins against the ACC, HUGE difference.
Gosh almighty, folks. How's your reading comprehension? Where did pbriz, or anyone else for that matter, claim that because Williams' and Few's winning percentages their first nine years were close, GU and Few = Williams and UNC?

Pbriz has made some interesting points comparing the approach of the coaches and the direction of GU's program (hint: see the thread title) which some of you have decided to ignore in favor of arguing against a point he was not, I think, attempting to make.

And while I've got my cranky on, Williams first nine years weren't spent in the ACC. They were spent in another pretty good conference, the Big 12, when he was at Kansas.

Who knows, maybe Coach Few is deliberately trying to model his approach to GU's program after Coach Williams' approach. If that were the case, would you still say that it's uppity for some folks to find similarities and that no similarities can be found unless and until GU makes a Final Four?

208Zag
02-13-2008, 04:48 PM
Off the top of my head I can think of at least two losses to ACC schools with Few at the helm, both last year Duke and a 30-point to loss to Virginia, however Few is in fact 1 - 0 agains UNC.

GoZags
02-13-2008, 04:59 PM
"Off the top of my head I can think of at least two losses to ACC schools with Few at the helm, both last year Duke and a 30-point to loss to Virginia, however Few is in fact 1 - 0 agains UNC."


Let's see.

I think Few's Zag teams have defeated #3 in the nation Georgia Tech; #2 in the nation UNC (which you've begrudingly acknowledged); #20 NC State; Maryland a couple of times; Virginia a couple of times (once when they'd been in the Top 10 earlier in the season). During Few's 2 years as Assoc. H.C. of the Zags, GU knocked off Top 5 Clemson.

But you're right. They DID lose to Duke and they DID lose at Virginia (by 21, not 30 as you've exaggerated above).

MickMick
02-13-2008, 05:12 PM
More Kool Aid please :)

Please don't arm the Dons board with such crazyness. Heck the Zags can't even compare with the 51 Dons...let alone the Tar Heels. National Championships are the measure....the rest is wishful thinking.

Note: Just guessing on the year...it was 51 wasn't it?

GoZags
02-13-2008, 05:19 PM
I don't believe ANYONE has stated that GU is UNC's equal.

208 is busy refuting something that hasn't been said.

While it is true that GU's offense is somewhat similar to UNC's, and the style of players is somewhat similar -- nowhere does it say that GU's are better.

While it is also true that GU's winning percentage against the ACC is extraordinarly high, and it's true that Few's winning percentage is high I don't believe it was stated that Few is better than Williams.

pbriz
02-13-2008, 05:22 PM
thank you gozags and zagnative. The key word in my title is "direction."

Just thought I would bring up something I noticed to show what perhaps we are striving for.

In no way am I saying we are equal, but perhaps someday we will get to that level. The key ingredient to making it there-stop losing WCC coaches to the Pac-10. It will be very interesting to see what Randy Bennett does, and could make or break this conference.

ZagNative
02-13-2008, 05:22 PM
Aw, boy ... the tragic end of a decent thread, when one crummy post derails all reason and everyone veers hopelessly off topic in pursuit of the derailer ...
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff232/ZagNative/Junk/Emoticons/smiley_emoticons_segen.gif

BobZag
02-13-2008, 06:11 PM
Aw, boy ... the tragic end of a decent thread, when one crummy post derails all reason and everyone veers hopelessly off topic in pursuit of the derailer ...
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff232/ZagNative/Junk/Emoticons/smiley_emoticons_segen.gif

It's "thread mutation." Folks don't read thoroughly, then compound it by being way too serious. Even El Voce's great razor thread shows signs of "thread mutation" the longer it goes. It's a weird but consistant phenomena of message boards.

zag67
02-13-2008, 06:31 PM
Way to go Pbiz. I was reading down through the thread and then went back up to the top and said to myself, did they not read "direction". The key is we do want to go this way and hopefully through the years we will get the atheletes that can play at this level. I do not think that we will ever get 4 or 5 5 star players in one year, like they do. But can we get good players that can develop? Yes.

This year has been fun to watch and frustating at the same time. The injuries really derailed how good they could have been early. But the jury is still out on how good they might end up being. So let's hope that it just keeps improving.:) :)

sittingon50
02-13-2008, 06:48 PM
Few>Auerbach!:D

chirguy
02-13-2008, 06:50 PM
I think it's true we are similar to UNC . . . soft. If I was going to model myself after a program I would choose a much better, tougher team. A weak Gonzaga team beat vaughted UNC last year, but lowley Duke beat our butts. We need a new model.

pfallsbeav
02-13-2008, 08:36 PM
Mark Few deserves the comparisons and the accolades. But until we get some conference strength from top to bottom, it is similar to comparing Tim Hauck at Montana with USC's Pete Carrol. The both win, but it pales from there.
The ACC is a battle every night, while the Zags can win with one good 8 minute run.

GoZags
02-13-2008, 09:54 PM
Mark Few deserves the comparisons and the accolades. But until we get some conference strength from top to bottom, it is similar to comparing Tim Hauck at Montana with USC's Pete Carrol. The both win, but it pales from there.
The ACC is a battle every night, while the Zags can win with one good 8 minute run.

Huh?

Why are you comparing Montana's defensive backs coach to Mark Few? That makes zero sense.

If you meant Montana H.C. Bobby Hauck you'd still have a weak analogy. Let me know the last time Montana football beat USC (or any premiere program). Let me know the last time Montana was ranked as high as #2 in the nation at the highest level of the sport.

The fact of the matter is from '99 - '01 only 3 schools went back to back to back Sweet 16 (or beyond). Duke, Michigan State and Gonzaga. Sure, Duke and MSU both won National Championship during that stretch while the closest Gonzaga got was 33 seconds and a possession away from the Final Four against eventual National Champ UConn.

But I'll give you one thing -- Bobby Hauck (if that's who you really meant) has won as many National Championships at the highest level as Mark Few (zero). But Few's best days as a successful coach continue to lie ahead.

cbbfanatic
02-14-2008, 12:11 AM
you lost me when trying to compare goodson to lawson, pargo to felton and gray to ellington.

come on man, its not even close. those guys might have similar styles but they arent even close in overall talent. roy williams wouldnt return any of those kids calls. he would probably think goodson had the wrong number and was trying to call butch davis. take a look at UNCs recent recruiting classes and the number of stars next to these kids' names.

maybe gonzaga can be the unc of midmajors, but any direct comparison to UNC is preposterous

(i didnt read the whole thread, it was embarassing, so if he did a little bait and switch midway through and i missed the point, i apologize)

MedZag
02-14-2008, 12:13 AM
come on man, its not even close. those guys might have similar styles but they arent even close in overall talent.

That's his whole POINT. He wasn't talking about EQUIVALENTS he was talking about STYLES. Read his post again!!!

Ugh, this place sometimes.

TheBunnieRancher
02-14-2008, 12:51 AM
While we are on the long and storied history of UNC...Dean Smith was often wondered if he would ever win a NC before he eventually did. A lot of great coaches and a chance at a title is not always a given. 2001 Mariners with 116 wins and no ring. New England 18-0 into the Super Bowl to come up empty. A trip to the final 4 is no small feat in itself. Timing is everything and let's hope our boy's title wave is just beginning to swell this year and next. Go Zags. :cheers:

deathchina
02-14-2008, 06:36 AM
Our program needs to make a final four sometime in the next couple years.

MedZag
02-14-2008, 07:07 AM
Our program needs to make a final four sometime in the next couple years.

Or else we're doomed.