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View Full Version : Who are the starting 5 now?



vaboris
02-05-2008, 12:53 PM
Heytvelt can't possibly be starting anymore, can he?

Should he?

TexasZagFan
02-05-2008, 01:10 PM
It's the finishing five I'm most concerned with. Lately it's been Pargo carrying the other 4 Zags on his shoulders. It shouldn't be this way, with the talent on this team.

McZag
02-05-2008, 01:11 PM
Pargo
Bouldin
Gray
Daye
Kuso/Downs (not sure)

Josh is not ready to be a full time contributor yet.

rawkmandale
02-05-2008, 01:13 PM
I don't think I want to comment on the starting 5, as that is really the coach's call, and there are many implications.

However, I certainly wanted to see the following people on the floor as much as possible last night:

Pargo
Pendo
Kuso
Daye
Gray

with Bouldin being the primary alternative, and Downs and Heytvelt providing breather support.

WestSeattleZag
02-05-2008, 03:22 PM
In all honestly, if Pendo is in our starting five we will get nowhere, maybe not even March...I'd even kill for a Sean Mallon right now. If Josh or Bouldin can't step up with Pargo, Daye, Gray then I really don't know what to say. I wish we could challenge teams to three on three with Pargo, Daye, and Gray...We'd win the National Championship next year.

rawkmandale
02-05-2008, 03:29 PM
I guess you've forgotten how Pendo carried us on his back last year after the Heytvelt suspension, all the way through the rest of league play, and through the WCC Tournament. Are you new on the bandwagon?

NorthWestZag
02-05-2008, 03:31 PM
Pargo
Bouldin
Gray
Pendo
Kuso


and our "game is on the line we need this one" line-up is...

Pargo
Bouldin
Gray
Daye
Kuso

WestSeattleZag
02-05-2008, 03:39 PM
I guess you've forgotten how Pendo carried us on his back last year after the Heytvelt suspension, all the way through the rest of league play, and through the WCC Tournament. Are you new on the bandwagon?

You got it right on the nail, I'm new on the bandwagon...You are exactly like Few, sticking with your "guns" even though there are different options. Pendo was a man and stepped up last year at the end of WCC play, that was great, but now its time to put him back at the 6th man spot where and undersized, not athletically gifted player with a big heart should be. Stop living in the past and lets play the best five we can at all times.

rawkmandale
02-05-2008, 03:50 PM
I agree, and Jeremy Pargo and David Pendergraft are our two most consistent, solid, all-around players. That's why they are Co-Captians.

The youngsters will be up and down like a yo yo.

gugrad66
02-05-2008, 04:04 PM
No doubt, Pendo did a great job last year--given the talent we had. But he no longer measures up on a team with more talent. I just think he could make a better contribution off the bench. Isn't the objective to win, as opposed to rewarding players for something from the past. I think he is a leader and will do whatever it takes to get this team past NCAA round 1. Don't worry about hurting his feelings.

gugrad66
02-05-2008, 04:11 PM
You got it right on the nail, I'm new on the bandwagon...You are exactly like Few, sticking with your "guns" even though there are different options. Pendo was a man and stepped up last year at the end of WCC play, that was great, but now its time to put him back at the 6th man spot where and undersized, not athletically gifted player with a big heart should be. Stop living in the past and lets play the best five we can at all times.

Couldn't agree with WestSeattleZag more. Few's reluctance to do this might vey well be symptomatic of Few not being able to get the Zags past the 1st weekend in the NCAA. In fact, unless they get it straight soon, the Zags may well be going to the NIT. No way they get picked for the Dance if they have 4-5 WCC losses (and 10 overall) and don't finish 2nd at WCC Tornament. They have to play USD, Santa Clara & St. Mary's again. There are no guarantees. They need to get their butt in gear. And Few needs to start coaching like a NCAA bid is not automatic.

gugrad66
02-05-2008, 04:14 PM
So where has Bouldin gone? The offensive scheme that the coaches have the Zags running right now isn't taken advantage of the talent on the team.

zzzjag
02-05-2008, 04:43 PM
It was finally nice to see both Kuso and Josh in at the same time. I have been waiting for this all season.

Observations-
Josh looks as if he really hates the post, both on offense (uncomfortable back to basket) but really on Defense. In his defense, most of his highlight plays from last season did not come from one on one in the post. It was when he was coming across from the weak side for the block on D. Or it was catching an alley oop or popping out on offense.

Kuso looks so active. Especially on the boards. He has even developed a nice jump hook. I totally was saying what Bardo was last night, Finish it big Fellah! If he would go up everytime with the goal to dunk it, I could live with misses. I get upset when he clearly could dunk it and chooses to lay it in...and misses. However, all that said, Kuso is not a starting Center for a Final 4 type of team. He is a nice compliment at the 4 and spotting in for a 5 man.

If Coach Few was sending a message to Josh, it was loud and clear. By passing him to sub in Pendo and Downs in OT was one thing. But the fact that he pulled him after the FT miss/rebound out of bounds with 3 seconds was a HUGE message.

rawkmandale
02-05-2008, 05:11 PM
I think I'll leave the coaching to Mark Few. He seems to have done somewhat well at that. A few of the guys/gals on this thread obviously think they are more qualified, so I hope they are snatched up quickly by D1 programs, where their talents can be put to good use.

I agree with the last post, which acknowledges that the staff experiments to find good combinations. I'm OK with that, but trashing our tried and true is ridiculous.

Zag79
02-05-2008, 07:44 PM
If Josh or Bouldin can't step up with Pargo, Daye, Gray then I really don't know what to say

gret point. the only thing i disagree with in this post is the benching of josh without regard to whats really going on. josh is still not 100% and we can win even when he doesnt play well. the guy that our Ws and Ls hang on is matt. when he shoots well we win. if he doesnt shoot the all we lose. he needs to find his stroke in the big games. uconn and tenn aside, he played poorly scoring the ball in our impt Ls. daye, gray and micah need to get more shots IMO.

roxdoc
02-05-2008, 09:37 PM
Matt just does not do well when guarded by larger and more athletic players. Hence "no shows" generally against top tier opponents who emphasize defnese. I predict much better performance from Matt next weekend.

At this point, I don't know what to think - what happened to our depth of great talent. It seems like its hard to find 5 players who want to compete and are capable of competitive play. This is not a reaction to last night's loss, more a look at the entire season. Need to throw away my rose colored glasses I guess.:(

cjm720
02-06-2008, 07:45 AM
I'd like to see:

Pargo
Gray
Bouldin
Daye
Heytvelt

As much as I like Pendo, I think Daye's earned a starting roll. My only hesitation is that he's likely to get into foul trouble and could be abused in the post due to his slight frame. He'll get his blocks and his fair share of rebounds, but he doens't have the strength to position himself against larger players. Pendo off the bench would be a sparkplug and add some calm. Heytvelt is still our best Big going forward, he simply needs to improve his game (whether it's related to health or head).

GO ZAGS

wsulax
02-06-2008, 10:50 AM
I absolutely do not get it. Why are the people Few goes to down the stretch when the game is on the line not the starters? I mean, doesn't that mean they are the most talented players? It makes no sense. Start the best finish with the best. Not just the hardest worker.

Reborn
02-06-2008, 12:05 PM
I see no reason to change the starting line up. It's fine. I think Kuso is playing much better coming in off the bench. Maybe it helps him to watch the game and reflect a little before going in. Some guys are sooo emotional, and get so hyped up before a game, they need to settle down first before actually playing.

As for Pendo, he does well at the beginnings of games. When his game begins to digress is when he makes stupid fouls and begins to get in foul trouble. He just has never solved that problem. I think Daye is much better and should begin to get 30 minutes a game instead of 20. It will take guts for Few to do that, but maybe he wants to win badly enough that he will begin to make the change.

I also believe that Gray should get 30 minutes a game. He's that good in my opinion. But that too will take guts from Few. Matt may need to sit more, which gives Gray more playing time. It's a game to game thing for me, depending on how they are playing. Matt needs to find his shot because he is NOT as good of a defender as Gray.

The key I think is Downs. I am really down on him too. Sorry. If I were coaching I would begin to look once again at Larry G. or Ira Brown for the substitute at the 3 spot. Downs is playing very poor defense, imo, and when he's becoming obsolete on offense I think we need to think of alternatives. The best one to me is Ira. I really like him. He's another Kuso, and I think he could become a very good DI player if given a chance. He seldom makes mistakes, always hustles, and is a team player. He can also score, believe me. If it's needed, which is isn't. We have good scorers: Pargo, Daye, Matt, Gray, Pendo, Kuso, that to add a defensive, team player to them would be a plus, imo. Downs got shut out two straight games......And he's playing the wing slot where we need shooters. I think I'd move Daye to the Wing more, and Keep Pendo and Kuso in the 4 and 5 (this is only part of the time). Austin is playing great at the 4, but I know he can play at the 3 too.

ebayzagfan
02-06-2008, 12:31 PM
I'm not sure any major changes are needed in who happens to start a game. This needs to vary depending on matchups and whose playing well. I do feel there has been a noticeable drop in the quality of our defensive efforts of late. Yes, we've played better offensive opponents lately, but we just don't seem to be blocking out or going after the 50/50 balls with as much intensity as earlier in the season.

I agree with an earlier post on seeing more Larry G and Ira Brown. What could this possibly hurt? We are getting torched by point guards and wings lately (ala Brody Angley, Patty Mills, and Johnson from USD). Yes, good players all. Defense is obviously not Micah's strong suit; with his falloff in scoring, one must look at channeling some of his minutes to others. The possible drop off in rebounding might more than be made up by stringing together some defensive stops.

It's tough to just flat outscore everybody. Defense keeps you in every game. That was an emphasis early in the season; we need to get back to it.

dim4sum
02-06-2008, 12:56 PM
What amazes me is that, at this late juncture, we are still talking about players that can score. At the start of the season the problem seemed to be shuffling the deck so that all on the team get the chance to contribute offensively. And that playing time would be earned based on a commitment to hard D, assuming that everyone (with the possible exception of Kuso) would be capable of putting up big numbers offensively. Now, 23 games into the season we're still looking for a respectable starting five. There are real chemistry issues on this team. And Few is the one to figure it out. But there is no indication that he has. Maybe some of the chemistry issues may begin with the coaching staff. I can't seem to piece this all together. But Few can.

ebayzagfan
02-06-2008, 03:44 PM
What amazes me is that, at this late juncture, we are still talking about players that can score. At the start of the season the problem seemed to be shuffling the deck so that all on the team get the chance to contribute offensively. And that playing time would be earned based on a commitment to hard D, assuming that everyone (with the possible exception of Kuso) would be capable of putting up big numbers offensively. Now, 23 games into the season we're still looking for a respectable starting five. There are real chemistry issues on this team. And Few is the one to figure it out. But there is no indication that he has. Maybe some of the chemistry issues may begin with the coaching staff. I can't seem to piece this all together. But Few can.
Excuse the pun, but either Few can or few can. I'm think Mark is puzzled by the lack of production from the guys I like to call "the horses". These would be Josh, Matt, and, now lately, Micah. You send these guys out on the floor and just can't predict what you're going to get from them. Everyone says, Oh, Josh isn't 100%. OK, what is he-61%. Because that is about the production he is giving. I sympathize if his feet are still bothering him-about the only thing worse is a bad back. It looks like disinterest, loss of confidence, a lot of intangibles to me. And those can be hard to fix.