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View Full Version : Refereee Appreciation Thread



Birddog
02-04-2008, 09:24 PM
Nice JOB Zebras.

Birddog

NEZAGFAN
02-04-2008, 09:26 PM
ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS! I know there is some things we could have done better but it's hard to win when you are getting absolutely hammered by the zebras!

Zagme-totheleft!
02-04-2008, 09:27 PM
couldnt agree more. i dont think i have been so frustrated with the calls during a game. terrible.

YetiHater
02-04-2008, 09:29 PM
just amazing. Reminds me of a recent super bowl...:confused:

YetiHater
02-04-2008, 09:30 PM
actually is was worse than that. horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible horrible

Goshzagit
02-04-2008, 09:31 PM
As the saying goes, we got hosed!! Big time.

41 FT Attempts for St. Mary's
18 FT Attempts for Gonzaga

Are you serious?

29 Fouls called on GU
18 Fouls called on St. Mary's

What? :confused:

Bocco
02-04-2008, 09:36 PM
two straight games in the bay area with horrendous refereeing, absolutely unbelievable, and its just not the disparity in fouls, there were a number of balls knocked out of bounds by the Gaels and they were given the ball

MDABE80
02-05-2008, 08:16 AM
mgilleran@westcoast.org or call 650-873-8622 ext.14

I guess we could ask him to review the game. One of those refs has been suspended before for this type of game. We lost......not exactly fair and square IMO. We didn't play well. In this loss , we had major assists from the refs. What's done is done.

ClownRoyalZag
02-05-2008, 08:18 AM
Horrible calls on both ends. Refs were Jr. High quality. But with that said, thanks to SM for missing so many free throws and keeping us in the game.

gamagin
02-05-2008, 08:29 AM
who noted i the post game wrapup that SMC got 15 free throw shots in five minutes, adding "I've never seen anything like that happen, ever."

fwiw, I don't think it should have been close enough to allow the refs to take sides.

Pargo did a great job on Mills, but once he got near the net, he was pretty much home free. plus missig defensive boards.

on the rim, Golden & 6-6 for 19 pts simply was left to build his confidence and practice his best shot all night long.

Between them, we couldn't seem to find a stopper. outside or in.

Otoh, SMC did double up on the drives. But sadly SMC didn't have to worry about or three shooters. they didn't shoot so they didn't have to cover.

JP did everything he could, but we need five players on the floor, in synch. bad as te refs were, we were cleverly pulled out of our positions too often by SMC, imo, because we were trying to beat them with 3-4 and sometimes 2-3 players trying to do too m uch while the rest were doing too little.

That's one reason Golden, and his equivalent at Santa Clara, camped out and took their best shots with no pressure, imo.

Had we matched up better, and been in synch, the refs could not have effected the game so much with those crap, terrible calls. And that is where I chose to concentrate my exasperation.

gonzagulous
02-05-2008, 08:32 AM
Three bad calls take away any chance of us winning the game.

1. SMC gets 3 straight possessions from offensive rebounds, missing all three shots. Josh grabs a rebound with about 1:30 left, Samhan bats it out of bounds. Ball goes to SMC. Golden hits a 3 to give them the lead.

2. Daye steals the ball from Samhan and proceeds to get tackled. Daye would have drained two free throws to either tie or give us the lead (I can't remember). Instead Samhan gets free throws, and Daye fouls out of the game.

3. Golden gets chased down into the corner with under 25 seconds left, is falling out of bounds, and does a flying sideways gazelle leap into Gray, who has position and is standing there with his arms straight up. Foul on Gray.

I'm used to the bad calls in the WCC, and generally it evens out both ways, but in this case it is a disgrace because it literally took us out of the game. Garbage.

YetiHater
02-05-2008, 08:42 AM
Otoh, SMC did double up on the drives. But sadly SMC didn't have to worry about or three shooters. they didn't shoot so they didn't have to cover.

all the 3pt shooters had 5 fouls on the bench
Pendo
gray
daye

DoggieDogpound
02-05-2008, 08:57 AM
I am not usually a whiner, but those 3 bad calls noted above by gonzagulous
were the three I was screaming about and probably woke up my elderly neighbor.

Once and Future Zag
02-05-2008, 09:05 AM
In close games like that - shouldn't the refs check the monitors to make sure they make the right call?

I've seen it done before many times.

zaguarxj
02-05-2008, 09:15 AM
I guess I'm in the minority too. I thought the refs did a pretty good job of letting the players decide the game. Of course you're going to get a few "home court" calls, but it didn't seems so bad to me.

thickman1
02-05-2008, 09:26 AM
when the level of play goes up you need referees that can handle that increased athleticism and ability on the floor. I think Jay Bilas railed about this earlier this season. You need referees to be watching films of the two teams and understand how both teams play. They need to be at the top of their game as well and it was clearly evident tonight that these two top 25 caliber teams were being managed by three high school referees. They just did a very poor job.

Imagine them calling a UP/LMU game and then calling a SMC/GU game? It'd be night and day in the quality of play - there is no question.

zag944
02-05-2008, 09:38 AM
I think all that a monitor can be used for is to determine if a shot got off in time. Personal fouls and possession are left to the referees calls, and I dont believe they can be overturned by looking at a replay

Robzagnut
02-05-2008, 09:42 AM
I haven't felt this bad about the refs since Turiaf got jobbed against Nevada.

Zag 77
02-05-2008, 09:52 AM
It is an old and cherished tradition for the loser in any sport to blame the officiating, but by golly, it is really true this time. The gross disparity in fouls and free throws has been pointed out, but the refs could not get an out-of bounds call right to save their lives in the last part of the game last night.

I know that home court is usually good for a few calls, but this is ridiculous.

McZag
02-05-2008, 10:03 AM
Three bad calls take away any chance of us winning the game.

1. SMC gets 3 straight possessions from offensive rebounds, missing all three shots. Josh grabs a rebound with about 1:30 left, Samhan bats it out of bounds. Ball goes to SMC. Golden hits a 3 to give them the lead.

2. Daye steals the ball from Samhan and proceeds to get tackled. Daye would have drained two free throws to either tie or give us the lead (I can't remember). Instead Samhan gets free throws, and Daye fouls out of the game.

3. Golden gets chased down into the corner with under 25 seconds left, is falling out of bounds, and does a flying sideways gazelle leap into Gray, who has position and is standing there with his arms straight up. Foul on Gray.

I'm used to the bad calls in the WCC, and generally it evens out both ways, but in this case it is a disgrace because it literally took us out of the game. Garbage.

Even the ESPN announcers caught on and agreed that the calls were completely one-sided at the end.

rawkmandale
02-05-2008, 10:07 AM
I hope the league has a policy of reviewing tape to evaluate the job done by the refs. For the most part, I've been happy with the WCC refs this year - have seen very few missed calls that were not in the "judgment" category. I think they have done a credible job, but NOT LAST NIGHT. I think some suspensions may be in order, or at least mark these guys for potential replacement next year. Did we have some of the lower rated refs last night, or was it just an off night for them?

People should contact the league offical noted above. Be polite.

lawzag
02-05-2008, 10:12 AM
mgilleran@westcoast.org or call 650-873-8622 ext.14

I guess we could ask him to review the game. One of those refs has been suspended before for this type of game. We lost......not exactly fair and square IMO. We didn't play well. In this loss , we had major assists from the refs. What's done is done.

Normally, I try VERY hard not to harp on the refs. I know their job is difficult & in the beginning I think these refs did ok with the calls going both ways. However, as the game went along & became more "on the line" their calls got ridiculously one sided. I e-mailed & complained requesting a review of the game and disciplinary action against the ref'ing crew - citing the specific 3 calls that GG08 mentions above. Those 3 calls decided the game & the refs should be disciplined!

Pure
02-05-2008, 10:14 AM
The conspiracy theorist in me says it was a Plant by the WCC.. if St. Marys Loses that game and say 1 or 2 more , and then GU wins the auto bid St Marys is NIT bound.

Now with this win and say a 2nd place finish the WCC gets 2 in ???


Yeah i know its a theory.. :D :D :D

I rarely complain about Refs (especially when we win lol) , the refs made the right call on Sat to help us pull out a game we should of lost..

But last nights effort by the refs was clearly one sided.

Once and Future Zag
02-05-2008, 10:16 AM
There's a vast difference between complaining when Refs get a call/no-call situation wrong and complaining when calls are made flat out backwards.

I'm thinking of the Out-of-bounds ball and Golden drawing a foul by jumping on Gray. 2 free possessions for St Mary's!

On top of that the "anticipated" foul on Daye on Mills (IIRC) and him getting called for a foul because Samhan tackled him is strange.

scrooner
02-05-2008, 10:22 AM
Isn't it in the WCC's interest to get 2 teams into the NCAA tournament? I'm just sayin'...

CarolinaZagFan
02-05-2008, 10:45 AM
That foul where Golden jumped into Steven was absolutely ridiculous. One of my friends didn't care at all who one. He didn't come to my party last night, but he sent me a text message towards the end of the game and this is what it said: "Dude, I couldn't sleep so I turned on the game. Gonzaga is getting screwed. I know you are about to break your T.V.

77Zag
02-05-2008, 11:21 AM
As the saying goes, we got hosed!! Big time.

41 FT Attempts for St. Mary's
18 FT Attempts for Gonzaga

Are you serious?

29 Fouls called on GU
18 Fouls called on St. Mary's

What? :confused:

Absolutely one sided -- Homer, Homer and Homer were the refs -- we got Homered.

ZagGrad
02-05-2008, 12:45 PM
I hate blaming the officials as well and they are certainly the easiest scapegoat when a team doesn't play well, but honestly, the better team did not win last night. It's a tragedy when officials take COMPLETE control of the game like that. Unbelievable.

SMC scored 1/4 of their points from the line (If I'm an SMC fan, I don't consider last night a quality win).

Props goes to Pargo, Kuso, Daye, and Gray. Losing faith in Josh...big time. No confidence left in that kid.

gozagswoohoo
02-05-2008, 12:56 PM
I sent an e-mail AND called and left a voicemail at that number.

ZaginLaw
02-05-2008, 01:08 PM
I am suprised that nobody has added that Mills got away with traveling nearly every time he drove the lane. One replay on an "and 1" was at least 4 if not 5 steps before the ball left his hand. Do international traveling rules apply if you are an Aussie in the WCC?

Daye on the other hand got busted for a slight movement of the pivot foot.

One neat thing though was the SMC students were something else. I remember when the Kennel club used to be that excited and loud (but more organized) during every game.

IMHO college students should be that loud every game - no excuses.

Frazzle
02-05-2008, 01:30 PM
mgilleran@westcoast.org or call 650-873-8622 ext.14

I guess we could ask him to review the game. One of those refs has been suspended before for this type of game. We lost......not exactly fair and square IMO. We didn't play well. In this loss , we had major assists from the refs. What's done is done.

Is Mike Gilleran in charge of disciplinary action against the refs? If so, I think we should ALL take a minute to call (or email) and complain.

I have never publicly complained about officiating, but I am particularly upset with the level of incompetence shown with the WCC refs. GU should allow Coach Few to complain and pay any resulting fines on his behalf. That was a complete hose job last night.

TexasZagFan
02-05-2008, 02:27 PM
Is Mike Gilleran in charge of disciplinary action against the refs? If so, I think we should ALL take a minute to call (or email) and complain.

It appears to me that Gilleran's primary job is to divvy up the money that the Zags (and the few other at-large bids) have brought in from the NCAA over the past 9 years. As long as the other 7 are getting their cut, Mike's job is A-OK.

The campers will be happier this year, as SMC & GU should both be in the Dance, making some noise.

imazag
02-05-2008, 02:31 PM
Three bad calls take away any chance of us winning the game.

I sometimes get annoyed with the refs - one in particular that we refer to as the "little Nazi ref" (you all know him - he cost us the WCC Tournament about 5 years ago in San Diego) - he is short, older, meticulously groomed grey hair and is of the military-pressed pants brigade. He has more animation than a Disney cartoon and if he isn't getting enough attention, out comes the whistle, because its really ALL about HIM. Anyway - I believe that although there were opportunities for the Zags to make a clutch play, in general, I think they played good enough to win the game. I agree with this post that these three bad calls - so close together - that stole the momentum and the game. To make the call along the sideline in front of the entire Zags bench and coaching staff is belittling to the game of college basketball. I usually huff and puff about the refs and then settle down, realizing there were missed chances at a win. In this case, I believe the zoo came to town, released Gael force zebras and they claimed the game as their own. Argh.

Zaghuatanejo
02-05-2008, 02:32 PM
YES, the refs sucked. No doubt about it.

However, if the Zags hit their layins they win the game. No need to even go to overtime.

I'm predicting when SMC comes to GU it will be a different story. Zags by 15.

Bulldog
02-05-2008, 03:30 PM
Bad ref's are given way to much power in controlling the outcome of any game they choose. It has been going on for years and there doesn't seem to be any way to control it.

GeorgiaZagFan
02-05-2008, 03:33 PM
....is that IF Gonzaga wants to succeed against the big boys they need to develop a more physical style of play, the style of play that is being allowed in the major conferences AND in most NCAA tournament games.

That game last night was officiated like a junior high game....especially against Gonzaga. Every little touch foul was called against them...all they had to do was breath on Mills and he was awarded with a foul.

So Gonzaga NEEDS to become more physical to compete on the national scene...but in the WCC they will continue to get the junior high officiating.
It will be difficult for them to adjust and I think we saw that earlier this year when Tennessee thoroughly manhandled the Zags.

By the way....St. Mary's would get killed by a Tennessee team with national refs officiating the game.

zagcheer78
02-05-2008, 04:26 PM
I say "Amen" to most everything that has been said. I was thrilled to see us come out running and gunning. I don't remember seeing that kind of intensity this year. I disagree with the notion that we did not play well as there were members of our team that played great. I don't want to diminish their effort.
I wish that all of our team would have been "on" last night.
That being said, when the refs are seemingly biased against you it eats at the confidence you have. It becomes clear that no matter what you do, you are doomed to loose.
I am not a person who normally blames the refs for our losses (we all know we have played some lousy, sloppy ball this year) but in this case, I believe they took the game from us. I hope there is a system for accountability in our conference that will deal with this now so no one has to experience this in the future. There should be a high professional standard for all the refs who work at the college level and anything less should not be tolerated.

zzzjag
02-05-2008, 04:52 PM
I have read this thread and wanted to add that 2 calls (in addition to the obviuos ones listed) also impacted the game.

Pargo drives corner baseline, Mills flops, the ref on the scene motions for Mills to get up/quit flopping, then the outside official calls charge???

I still didn't see Daye foul Mills on the late 3pt play. If anything he got out of the way.

The capper (previously cited) had to be the Lefty 3pt shooter IN FRONT OF THE GU BENCH leaping sideways into a stationary Gray. As Terry Gannon said, at the worst it should be a travel.

I don't like to cite the refs as a reason to lose a game but much like the Seahawks Superbowl loss to Pittsburgh....they got hosed. Tough to play and win when its 5 against 8. (5 players from SMC and 3 refs for the math).

3XaZag
02-05-2008, 05:04 PM
We should add the call on Daye when he picked up his fourth foul trailing Mill's on a breakaway to the list of horrilbe calls. The third replay from the side clearly showed a clear gap between him and Mills. From the back it looked iffy (Mills did go sprawling), but the side angle showed he never touched him. Only a 1 point difference...but what a point.

Whenever you have these situations, those who don't want to make excuses or think the integrity of the game is unquestionable, make the point- if only we had done 'this or that' -- and they always have a point because the distance between winning and losing, especially for a game that goes into overtime, is so small. We can always say 'Kuso played great (major Kudos!!) but missed a couple of putbacks'-- or you can say 'if we had just hit one more three pointer it wouldn't even have gone to overtime'. Stop whining !!!

But it is particularly the small differences that makes the refs performance so critical. They don't have to get everything right, but they need to avoid the situation where they are the difference-- particularly late. It was mentioned above that even the ESPN announcers noticed. Pardo's quote was close to "you have to make sure that you play well enough on the road to win by ten points, so that even when the calls go against you, you can still win". This is an announcer trying to protect the integrity of the game, central to all sports, when it was in deep trouble. Pardo had it about right...without the calls Gonzaga wins by 5.

The series of clearly blown calls in overtime decided the game-- not the players. Give Gonzaga 3 more possessions and/or let them shoot a few more free throws and the game probably goes the other way. Who knows? We all lost the chance to watch the game that should have been. We should feel bad for the players...St. Mary's and the Zags...St. M's played well enough for the chance to win the game outright...and they all deserved the opportunity to have decided the game. Unfortunately the ref's took it away from everyone.

alaskazagnut
02-05-2008, 05:46 PM
They did not decide the game though, they only helped. I remember in the second half we had 5 straight possesions where we had 5 straight turnovers. We tried to fast break and create only to have the ball stolen or not caught on tricky passes. The Zags had butter fingers for about 5-6 possessions and that is our fault.

We shot under 65% from the line as a team. We need to be above 70% and we will win all of our close games. We can't always rely on Daye and Gray to shoot foul shots. Pargo needs to get to 70%.

I think we got more bit by our sloppy passes and free throw shooting (once again) than we did by the Refs. Only at the end of the game did 2 calls ruin our chances.

tyko
02-05-2008, 07:03 PM
They did not decide the game though, they only helped. I remember in the second half we had 5 straight possesions where we had 5 straight turnovers. We tried to fast break and create only to have the ball stolen or not caught on tricky passes. The Zags had butter fingers for about 5-6 possessions and that is our fault.

We shot under 65% from the line as a team. We need to be above 70% and we will win all of our close games. We can't always rely on Daye and Gray to shoot foul shots. Pargo needs to get to 70%.

I think we got more bit by our sloppy passes and free throw shooting (once again) than we did by the Refs. Only at the end of the game did 2 calls ruin our chances.

If the refs were the "help" that pushed the game over the edge, then they decided the game. Say we played exactly the same but the refs called a fair game, would we have won?

I always wonder how games like this would turn out if the players were the ones calling their own fouls....

zagray
02-05-2008, 09:26 PM
I have umpired baseball for 31 years, little league through college. I have worked girls high school softball, boys high school football and basketball. I can tell you first hand that i have personally effected the outcome of games though not on purpose nor have i worked with anyone that had. I grade out as an A official in baseball and was a Chief for many years. I remember a game years ago working behind the plate in a big regional final game. It was the bottom of the seventh 1 on 2 out 1 run game. The batter had 2 strikes on him, crowd was going wild, very intense. Pitcher threw a belt high fastball that caught the outside corner i flinched and called it a ball, i wanted a little more plate to wring him up in this situation. The next pitch the batter hit a walkoff bomb to left field, game over. You can speculate all you want, but if i make the right call the result would have been different. I felt terrible, good officials take pride in being competent, i felt i failed the game that day. Officials are trained, graded and evaluated. There are a good ones and bad ones. With two near equal teams competing, a poor official or officials can sway the results, I tried to give the best officials the best games, for the integrity of the game. Official are trained to not be the focal point who determines the outcome, thats what the players are for. What botherd me the most was the out of bounds call on Josh towards the end of the game, the ref working the baseline deferred the call, he was not in good position, thats a no no, but it happens. Its considerd bad sportmanship to point at refs. But believe me you want good refs, accurate calls, it leads to a more accurate outcome. For those of you who think that the outcome will be the same good calls or bad, i beg to differ, sometimes 1 bad one is all it takes.