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View Full Version : Are you encouraged or discouraged by this game?



zagster318
02-02-2008, 06:09 PM
On the one hand, I am impressed the Zags came out with the win. OTOH, they probably should have lost this game in regulation. Of course, this was after giving up four straight points in the final minute of the first overtime.

Bottom line: I'll take the win, and hope the juniors and seniors pick up their game against St. Mary's. They got bailed out by freshmen!:confused:

MDABE80
02-02-2008, 07:31 PM
Discouraged on many fronts..........but the freshman are really good. Effort is there and they put points up and play good defense. Kuso is trying hard and it shows. Pendo plays hard. As for the rest...........just not turning into a cohesive unit.
We play ST Marys like SCU and we'll get beat ( not just lose) by 20 easily. I just don't understand why all these guys with all their talent can't go out and kick some ass on a consistent basis. I don't think they were looking forward to St Marys either. Is there somethin in the water over there on Boone? We haven't seen "tough as nails" basketball in an awful long time.

ZaggyStardust
02-02-2008, 07:36 PM
Ya gotta win the UGLY ones too and we did that.... Therefore,

ENCOURAGED

Move On!


(I'm actually glad not to see a major meltdown tonight!)

Goshzagit
02-02-2008, 07:51 PM
There were no surprises in this game. I'm neither encouraged or discouraged by their performance tonight. Overall, this game was a microcosm of this season's performance. We rarely, if ever, play a full 40 minutes and only "play" hard or decently well when the game is on the line. It has become a pathetic habit. We were lucky to escape with a win, which was the ONLY positive, outside of Daye's clutch performance in OT. This team might get blown out by St. Mary's and definitely doesn't play or have the mindset of a tournament team.

zag69
02-02-2008, 07:51 PM
I was discouraged by the abbreviated game I was able to watch...down to the final seven seconds of regulation. Too many mental mistakes.

Zag4Hire
02-02-2008, 07:52 PM
This will be a long response but here it goes:

1) My heart is still racing.
2) F-Bomb to FSN NWest. They cut out about 8 minutes of the 2nd half and then skipped the WHOLE 1st overtime and then took me back to 32 seconds left in the 2nd OT. HERE IS THE THING FSN: IF YOU TAPE DELAY AN IMPORTANT GAME, SHOW IT ALL. I figured I would get some stuff done and watch the whole game later. Trust me, I was at the bars and had to avoid all TV screens showing ESPN and avoid phone calls about the game. Don't cut me out. I can fast forward on my own.
3) Steven Gray. MAJOR ONIONS. I will put those 2 FTs on par with Morrison's banger in the Battle in Seattle. Easily and if not argue it up.
4) I love Daye. My new Zaghead.
5) Bad shooting. Bad refing (I try not to dwell but those were some HOR-RIBLE CALLS).
6) Heytvelt needs to tune it up. Bronchitis or not.
7) Foster gets call over Sacre?

ebayzagfan
02-02-2008, 08:07 PM
I think Foster getting the call over Sacre was right. Sacre probably picks up 3 fouls in a minute trying to guard the freckle-faced man mountain Bryant.

I, too, am getting tired of hearing the excuses for Josh's lackluster performances. It does appear, though, that he has lost a ton of weight. Heister again statted him up as 6'10, 255. That's the thinnest 255 I've ever seen. Looks closer to 230 to me. This may explain why he's not able to hold position against other post players (not just Bryant). But, I'm sorry, I need to see more hustle and effort from Josh.

DoggieDogpound
02-02-2008, 08:23 PM
Discouraged by the overall effort - great to get the win....but UCLA destroys a good Arizona team and I felt like we should have been able to handle SC in somewhat similar style.

roxdoc
02-02-2008, 08:31 PM
I will be encouraged if I know that the coaches will look at the game tape as an excellent teaching tool on how to set screens. SC really schooled us on this. Many of those wide open shots of Anglie were not because we sagged, but because we were very effectively trapped.

alaskazagnut
02-02-2008, 08:42 PM
Effort and the never give up attitude was encouraging. I do not think we win this game if we did not have to learn a thing or two from Memphis last week.

Discouraged STILL, about sloppy passing, and lack of rebounding.

To see more teamwork but less overall production makes me worry even more about going to Moraga.

I think we will win though.:)

jim77
02-02-2008, 09:04 PM
We've got 2 young fellas that I'd trust on the freethrow line in ANY game. Just some clutch ball.

Steven's hustle to break up SC's long last second pass...and the hustle to retieve (and also get fouled)it was FANTASTIC! Then the kid steps to the line and drops them both in a VERY hostile environment! AWESOME!

The rest had better come to play Monday or we get hammered.


I sense tonights game will give the team a lift....a loss could have swung this team's NCAA hopes suddenly south.....the other WCC teams would have smelled blood! BIG WIN!

BroncoZAG615
02-02-2008, 09:28 PM
I am very encouraged by this team tonight and the coaching. For once, the coaches let the hot lineup roll. Austin and Steven were the catalysts to a victory tonight. Instead of subbing in Pendo or Micah and hurting the lineup we left our gamers in tonight. It was really refreshing for me seeing a lineup in the game at the overtime tip that was different than the one we started at the beginning of regulation.

I really hope this puts to rest the need for veterans to lead us to victory. We had jeremy, matt, and josh in there quite a bit but everyone who watched the game knew it was the young guys who led us. For the most part Matt was a ghost in the second half and Jeremy had his sparks.

The only thing I am discouraged about is Josh's low post defense. It is lacking to say the least. I don't know his current medical condition as far as his sickness but John Bryant abused him. Josh was consistently caught swiping at the ball and getting burned. I LOVED Kuso's energy tonight and his ability in the post. The guy works so hard and brings it no matter what the occasion is. Overall, I am encouraged.

MDABE80
02-02-2008, 09:42 PM
Jim......those kids just seem to get better and better. Steven is unfolding his talent before our eyes. He's a source of huge pride. His athleticism were undersold when he first came. Austin improves more as the season goes on. I agree....those 2 rookies are the most trustable on the line and in most other ways as the season progresses.
I hope we can hang onto Austin. Steven will be here. Both such surprises. Feed those kids,......they like to eat. Lotta heart with those 2.

HOOTER
02-02-2008, 09:48 PM
I am encouraged because the Zag's played a terrible game and still managed to win. I am encouraged that they won, in large part, because of some amazing basketball that was played by freshmen. Santa Clara, along with the rest of the WCC, saw the future of Gonzaga basketball and their not too thrilled about it. I am encouraged because, due to the inconsistent nature of Gonzaga basketball as of late, they survived this poor performance and will probably play better on Monday. Despite the rough outing today, a win is a win and life is still good in Zagville.

theothegreat21
02-02-2008, 10:07 PM
I am encouraged because this was the first game where I have seen Few forget about what year each player was, and instead stick with the lineup that was playing well. Instead of subbing in Pendo or Downs late in the 2nd half or in the OT's, Few stuck it out with Daye and Gray and I think this was a big step in the right direction.

I dont think anyone on this board will argue that the lineup that needs to be in at crunch time in important games is Pargo, Bouldin, Gray, Daye, and Heytvelt. This lineup was dynamite and provides us with both our best offensive and defensive lineups. I feel the end of this game could be a huge springboard to a deep run in March

MickMick
02-02-2008, 10:19 PM
Zags win a tough road game against a team that gave them fits last season. Why would I be discouraged? SCU really uglied up this game. They also did what the are good at. Rebound and hit 3's.

Zags overcame it and are undefeated in conference play. Bring on SMC.

ZagsGoZags
02-02-2008, 11:53 PM
encouraged
I wish we would get to passing more again, though
14 assists
I like it better when its about 20, that is the true zag system

TheZagPhish
02-03-2008, 12:16 AM
I'm encouraged.

I don't know what team will show up from game to game, but I do know that they keep finding ways - divine providence notwithstanding - to pull out wins.
Opportunism, adaptability, desire, luck and will played huge roles tonight, and I enjoy those elements as much as any other. The Zags would not be put away, and delivered what was needed when it was most needed. That'll do for me.

webspinnre
02-03-2008, 07:24 AM
Personally, I was more discouraged than encouraged. We played 25+ minutes of terrible basketball, and managed to get bailed out late. Our offense once again really struggled with being able to run effective half-court sets, and we couldn't buy a rebound.

On the other hand, SCU played very well, and I was somewhat encouraged by the way we stuck with it even though we were struggling. Also that we didn't let the poor reffing get in our heads too much (they were even with the calls, but really inconsistent about what got called and what didn't - either let them bang or don't, none of this sometimes yes sometimes no stuff).

ZagsNP
02-03-2008, 08:25 AM
I'm encouraged by the freshmen, Gray and Daye, and that we were able to come away from SC with a win, ugly, and down to the wire, but a win. It was good to see someone other than Pargo, step up and take control of the game.
Discouraged that we don't have a presence in the paint, that we still can't seem to figure out a way to defend the 3, that the players often look like no one wants the ball, and no one wants to shoot. I'm discouraged that we don't press more often, that we are often outrebounded. I'm also concerned that Josh just doesn't have "it" I'm thru with excuses (foot surgery, doesn't have his legs, the flu, bronchitis, etc) I just don't see that killer instinct that was there last year, no Josh "glares" after blocking a shot or making a dunk. The players seem tentative, I think they are afraid of making a mistake and getting put on the bench. I generally don't see the intensity, the fire or passion in their game. There are glimpses, like Austin in the OT's, but for most games we're gonna need that for about 40 minutes straight.

beatProgram
02-03-2008, 08:33 AM
Like others, I'm glad to see the coaching staff making the adjustment to keep the hot players in the game. I'm thrilled with Daye and Gray, and have been impressed with them as impact players all year considering they were coming onto a team that already had talent and experience at their positions. The future is bright.

On the other hand I'm utterly flabbergasted as to why anybody on this team is okay with the idea of Pargo controlling the offense in the final key seconds of the game.

I'm having a hard time remembering when his clock management was anything other than abysmal, and any instance where his disruptive hoggishness with the ball in the last few seconds has done anything other than net a wasted possession. Memphis from last year springs to the forefront of my mind (a game GU shouldn't have been in, which became a game that they never should have let get to OT).

Heytfelt and Pargo continue to be the two most hyped players on this team, and outside of some sparse flukes I'm just not seeing it. I'm sending back my cup of kool-aid.

Thomas_Sutpen
02-03-2008, 08:44 AM
Discouraged on many fronts..........but the freshman are really good. Effort is there and they put points up and play good defense. Kuso is trying hard and it shows. Pendo plays hard. As for the rest...........just not turning into a cohesive unit.
We play ST Marys like SCU and we'll get beat ( not just lose) by 20 easily. I just don't understand why all these guys with all their talent can't go out and kick some ass on a consistent basis. I don't think they were looking forward to St Marys either. Is there somethin in the water over there on Boone? We haven't seen "tough as nails" basketball in an awful long time.

Abe, I hope you don't mind if I pick on you, since this recent post seems to represent the opinion of lots of folks on the board. While I agree that this team is not the "tough as nails" type, I disagree about the effort/heart complaint that we see so often on the board (I know you don't mention "heart" in your post, but it's common enough that the two are lumped together that I'll consider them both here).

Bob Knight once said something like this (paraphrasing): "most kids THINK they are playing hard, but it is truly rare to find a kid who comes into D1 who actually plays hard all the time...so one of the things I try to teach my players is how to play hard all the time--it's not easy to do."

I think the problem with our team this year is NOT that they lack heart and/or effort (as so many on this board claim--using synonyms like killer instinct, desire, etc.), but that they are a VERY young team that has not yet learned to play hard all the time. Nobody except Pargo & Pendo has more than 18 months on the court in a ZAG uni (with significant playing time). Believe it or not, it's not that easy to give 100% all the time--this is something that NONE of these kids had to do in high school, and most of them don't even know what it means. Finding the balance between all-out effort and making it last for 40 minutes (it's no good to play all-out and waste yourself for the 2nd half) is NOT EASY. Fortunately, however, it can be learned. Some learn it faster and better than others (a la Pendo), and some never learn it. This is why, I think, that Pendo starts over Daye (although I'm not sure how much longer that will continue)--because Pendo plays hard more consistently than anyone else on our team. Few recognizes this and is trying to instill this characteristic in our younger players--note his comments after games in regard to playing time often refer to "defensive lapses"--sometimes this is about mental concentration, but often it is about effort, fighting thru screens, etc.

So, please, contextualize your comments about how "talented" this team is and how it is such a shame that they are "lazy" or "lack effort." I think the talent level on this team and the flashes of brilliance it shows often obscures how young they are. The fact is, they have not yet learned to play hard consistently. Even though Daye had his lapses last night, I was very encouraged (to return to the theme of this thread) to see Daye emerge as a "give me the ball and I'll score" type of player--the kind we haven't seen on this team since AMMO. I'm not ready to annoint AD as the second-coming--he is very inconsistent still, but wow, that was some great clutch shooting in OT.

So that's my piece--thanks, Abe, for serving as the entry point to my comments--I always enjoy your insights.

On to Moraga...