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View Full Version : Memphis will rout us...



Goshzagit
01-21-2008, 09:01 PM
if the Zags play like this on Saturday. If we come out and play like this, Memphis would be up by 20 at halftime. Outside of Ira's back-to-back dunks, the overall play of GU was sickening and almost disheartening following our 2nd half versus USD. I was hoping for a better performance and turnaround against USF and I was clearly wrong. How can we complain about not being ranked when we play like this while the pollsters are watching. Heck with Memphis, I hope we can escape this game with a win.

ZagMania
01-21-2008, 09:07 PM
Well, I agree the first half wasn't impressive. But I think its going to be very hard to lose this game as I don't feel like we can play too much worse.

Definitely can't play like this against Memphis but I'd have to think we'll be a little more focused and amped up against the #1 team.

GonzagaLove
01-21-2008, 09:07 PM
No doubt. It will be ugly.

S.U. Chieftain
01-21-2008, 09:08 PM
You often play to the level of your opponent. It's hard to "get up" when playing these sub-500 WCC teams.

SteeleMan
01-21-2008, 09:15 PM
The 9am gametime scares me a bit.

dim4sum
01-21-2008, 10:14 PM
I don't see the Zags coming within 20 points of Memphis. This team completely lacks a cohesive sustainable offense. Mark isn't angry enough or involved enough. So it seems from a distance. The turnovers and sloppy execution are just inexcusable. For the second game in a row, the team has squandered a big lead. Kuso is a major detriment. He just can't finish. And tonight Josh was a liability. What's with the guy? His head seemed elsewhere.

thickman1
01-21-2008, 10:16 PM
You often play to the level of your opponent. It's hard to "get up" when playing these sub-500 WCC teams.

Bah - hogwash. St. Mary's destroyed LMU by 32 tonight. They seemed to "get up" just fine. This has been a chronic GU problem for years.

VinnyZag
01-21-2008, 10:23 PM
I don't see the Zags coming within 20 points of Memphis. This team completely lacks a cohesive sustainable offense. Mark isn't angry enough or involved enough. So it seems from a distance. The turnovers and sloppy execution are just inexcusable. For the second game in a row, the team has squandered a big lead. Kuso is a major detriment. He just can't finish. And tonight Josh was a liability. What's with the guy? His head seemed elsewhere.

Per gametracker, they only had 12 TOs (although gametracker's screwed me before on stats), so I'm not sure that was the issue.
I don't think the problem with Heytvelt is head, I think it's foot and flu.
And as for the offense ... they probably missed eight to 10 shots tonight that they just don't miss. I'm thinking of a couple midrange Pendo jumpers as well as most of Heytvelt's misses.
Defense, I thought, was pretty good most of the game (until the last six minutes or so, when they slacked off, which is now clearly a trend). They couldn't stop Lowhorn, which I think is going to be a leaguewide issue for a while.
I ain't saying I'm happy with this game, and clearly they're gonna need better execution on Saturday if they don't want to lose by 30. But -- I dunno, something was weird tonight, and I wonder if it was the flu bug. I dunno.

zag67
01-21-2008, 10:38 PM
1. The turnovers were down (@ 12)
2. The defense (except the end) played hard and did their job (12 steals and 3 blocks)
3. Except for some of his misses inside, Kuso played a very solid game
4. We shot terrible for the first 10 minutes, but then came back and shot pretty good from that point until the last 5 minutes
5. Some of the players looked slow and played like they were not there. This maybe due to the flu that is going around.
6. Ira's dunks were super
7. The last 5 minutes, we again tried too much 1 on 1 and forgot how we got there. The spread is fine, but with about 15 seconds, we need to start doing something and not just throw something up.
8. We need to rebound better.


Against Memphis:
We need to play the same hard defense. Box out and hit the boards hard. Take care of the ball (keep down on turnovers). Take what the give us and do not take wild shots if the rest of the team is out of position. Do not be afraid and take your shots when they are there. Do not let them get out and run.
If we do those things, then I think that we can keep it close.

WRHUradio
01-21-2008, 10:45 PM
It's gotta be something like Memphis +16, not a gambler but number sounds about right.

CDC84
01-21-2008, 10:51 PM
RayG after the game referred to Saturday's game as an "opportunity" and "a chance to take a swing at #1." You don't get chances like this too often.

Gonzaga has ZERO to lose and everything to gain when they take the floor Saturday. Nobody is going to pick them to win. While I think Memphis is one of the two best teams in the nation, they aren't invincible. The longer these undefeated teams keep playing, the more vulnerable they become. And very often, the loss comes to a team that you wouldn't suspect could pull it off. In fact, Calipari's great UMass team from the mid-90's with Camby and Co. was undefeated deep into February until they lost at home to a very inferior GW team. They didn't lose another game until the final 4.

The odds of Gonzaga winning are not good, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that they don't have a chance. It's not like Gonzaga hasn't played these guys before and done so competitively.

alaskazagnut
01-21-2008, 10:55 PM
So we have decent chance at the game. Remember we are "playing to the level of our competition".

pbriz
01-21-2008, 10:55 PM
goshzagit, whru radio.....

It is completely fine to have your own opinions but this Zag team isn't one to just crumble. These guys stick it out and has far too much talent and pride in our program to be blown out. Who knows who will win the game, but these threads saying we are just going to keel over.... its not gonna happen. period.

You mention that to Pargo or Pendo and I guarantee they will agree with me.

WRHUradio
01-21-2008, 11:05 PM
by no means am I saying Pargo/Pendo and others are just going to roll over and die..of course they have pride, so do at least most of the teams Memphis has rolled this year.

Losing by 1 last yr to Memphis you have to remember a couple of things...
1-Zags had a reason to be inspired right after the Josh/Theo incident
2-They were home
3-This memphis team is at least 2 notches better than last yr. Rose at PG and Taggart off the bench are 2 things they didnt have. Last yr when Dorsey got into foul trouble they had no other true Big, and Rose will remind you of a young Jason Kidd and is a definite 1 and done top-5 pick


UConn lost in the last few mins early in the season to Memphis, but that game was on a neutral court at MSG early in the yr and UConn has the shotblocker/post defender to contain Dorsey and have the guards strong and quick enough to stay in front of the slashers.

CDC84
01-21-2008, 11:19 PM
Memphis doesn't have a clutch perimeter shooting threat this season like Jeremy Hunt, who was the guy that really hurt Gonzaga in last year's game. Douglas-Roberts hit the game winner, but it was Hunt that did the damage.

The Tigers are better this year with Rose and the additional depth, plus the general maturation of their returning players. However, regardless of their frontcourt depth, there is no substitute for Joey Dorsey. If he gets in foul trouble and is forced to sit for extended periods, Memphis is not the same team. I've seen them at least 7 times this season, and they've struggled during games this year when he has been forced to sit. The complementary guys like Taggart and Dozier are nice, but they are not the guys Calipari wants out there playing extended minutes without Dorsey in the game. Dorsey's rebounding and shotblocking presence is the key to Memphis' defensive attack.

Gonzaga's bigs have to stay out of foul trouble in this game, and it won't be easy. But if they can, and if they can put foul pressure on Dorsey, it could give them some offensive looks they might not see otherwise.

ZagsGoZags
01-21-2008, 11:23 PM
Steelman
It is 9 am here, but hopefully the zags will have been there a few days before the game, and it will be played at 11:00 or noon, there.

TexasZagFan
01-21-2008, 11:23 PM
Well, if we're going to be blown out, why not call Calipari and forfeit?

Just think of the reduced carbon footprint the Zags will have.

I seem to recall the depleted Zags gave them a heck of a run at the Spokane Arena last year.

All you whippersnappers out there have taken the Zags for granted. Old farts like me appreciate the way our kids compete, and how far we've come over the past 10 years.

I see this game as a starting point in the drive to March. When you have as many minutes from freshman and sophomores as we do, there will be ups and downs. They're maturing, and running into the buzzsaw known as Memphis will speed that process.

Why do you naysayers come on this board once every blue moon, just to spread negativity? Just don't be surprised when your little green boxes turn into red boxes.

pbriz
01-21-2008, 11:26 PM
I agree that Memphis is right on par with Kansas and UNC in terms of teams loaded with depth and talent.

And yes I agree you are much improved with Rose at the point.

But....

1. We didn't play you at the Kennel last year (if you have ever been to one of our real home games, it is completely different)

2. Our game last year came down to the last possession and we will actually have an inside presence this game in Heytvelt.

3. We need a marqee out of conference win and this is our last chance, we will be gunning.

That being said, it should be a very entertaining game but there is no use getting too into predicting at this point. Just too tough with these two teams.

TexasZagFan
01-21-2008, 11:29 PM
Gonzaga's bigs have to stay out of foul trouble in this game, and it won't be easy. But if they can, and if they can put foul pressure on Dorsey, it could give them so offensive looks they might not see otherwise.

Agree with your entire post.

The entire team needs to step it up, and play aggressively for the entire 40 minutes. I'm looking for Kuso to play a bigger role. He had some good moments in Oklahoma City, but couldn't put in any chippies tonight.

FuManShoes
01-21-2008, 11:43 PM
Either the Zags do as they've done time and again and slay a giant in a game they supposedly have no business winning, or they lose and see their shot at the Big Dance hinge squarely on winning the conference. Either way, we'll know a lot more about these Zags and they'll know a lot more about themselves after this game. I can feel the goose-bumps already.

Some questions:
--Does Few run Sacre and possibly Foster out there to help battle Dorsey, Dozier & Co.?
--Will Ira/LG see some playing time if the Zags are getting run all over and need some stops?
--Will we see a complete game out of Downs, the signs of which have been there all year but rarely put together: active, rangy D and instant, smart O?
--Will Jeremy play within himself as he has mostly done since league play started, or will he be tempted to "will" the team to victory and thus sacrifice offensive balance for individual glory?
--Will Kuso play within himself and FINISH at the hoop as he did against UNC last year or get flustered and throw up bricks?
--Will Matt be able to stay on the floor (stay out of foul trouble), will he be able to get shots off (use screens or post up), and will those shots go in (time to make use of that newfound confidence and refined shooting touch)?
--Will X-factor Pendo be able to rebound against these guys (Josh, please box out), or will he get "beasted" again this year?
--Will Josh shake off the cobwebs and come to play on both ends of the floor (no silly fouls! take it strong to the rack!)?
--What will the fab freshmen contribute in their first really, really big game? Will Daye put on an offensive show as I suspect he might? Will Gray show that uncommon poise and uncanny stroke from three that will have Memphis fans shaking their heads, wondering, "I thought WE had the stud freshman!"

LongIslandZagFan
01-22-2008, 05:36 AM
I agree that Memphis is right on par with Kansas and UNC in terms of teams loaded with depth and talent.

And yes I agree you are much improved with Rose at the point.

But....

1. We didn't play you at the Kennel last year (if you have ever been to one of our real home games, it is completely different)


Just a side note... WHRU is a holdover poster from the game we played against Hofstra a couple years ago. He isn't a Memphis fan per se.

spudzag
01-22-2008, 06:41 AM
The 9am gametime scares me a bit.

Memphis scares me a lot!

zag67
01-22-2008, 07:38 AM
They should scare us. They are number 1 in the nation. But they have their problems like foul shooting and their half court game gets stagnit at times. If each of the players play above their average games, I think that it should be a good game. Being at 9 in the morning, will be tough.

dim4sum
01-22-2008, 07:54 AM
Another factor. West Coast teams playing early (for them) games have a tradition of getting blasted. And this team, if it lapses into another slow start could find itself down by 20 before the alarm even goes off. My prediction is Memphis wins it, 87-62. Prove me wrong.

wazZag
01-22-2008, 08:00 AM
Prove me wrong.

How might you suggest the posters on the board provide "proof" that your prediction is incorrect?

bartruff1
01-22-2008, 08:06 AM
This game is a opportunity...a gift...they have nothing to lose...they don't have to beat the #1 team in the country...they are in the Dance right now and will continue to improve..

CDC84
01-22-2008, 09:09 AM
I am hardly a Gonzaga homer, and I understand the obstacles GU is facing in this game as much as anyone, but man, some people in this thread are acting as if they want Memphis to blow out Gonzaga on national TV and humiliate them just so that they can be proven right about how poor they think this GU team is.

I would like to think that people would support the team more, and actually come up with some ways in which Gonzaga could win the game.

Goshzagit
01-22-2008, 09:34 AM
I have received multiple negative rep hits and angry comments/PMs because I started this thread. The attack against me for starting this thread is ridiculous. How is your negative comments towards me any different than me just posting the obvious? Is must be easier to take out your frustrations on my post rather than comprising your reputations on this board? I guess I do not understand why several of you are so upset for starting a thread about our lackluster play during the USF game? :confused:

For the record, my post clearly states, "Gonzaga will only lose to Memphis IF we play on Saturday like we have played against USF." I understand this particular thread wasn't the most optimistic response concerning our upcoming game vs Memphis, yet clearly not a "malicious attack" toward our Zags and "sentiments affecting board morale" as some of you have claimed.

D Hark 2003
01-22-2008, 09:43 AM
the odds are definitely in favor of a Memphis beat down on the zags, but i think your attitude in this thread, ie:having no hope or optimism that the zags can pull off a victory is the reason for your negative rep. I am pretty sure no one gave GU a chance to beat Minnesota, Stanford, and Florida in 1999 but they won. Im sure you've heard the any given sunday spiel. If the zags come out and shoot high 50s to low 60s from the field and dont turn the ball over much they can pull one out. You never know what the outcome will be, you only know that anything can happen... pessimism usually ends up with negative rep points on this board bud.

beatProgram
01-22-2008, 09:48 AM
Losing by 1 last yr to Memphis you have to remember a couple of things...
1-Zags had a reason to be inspired right after the Josh/Theo incident
2-They were home
3-This memphis team is at least 2 notches better than last yr. Rose at PG and Taggart off the bench are 2 things they didnt have. Last yr when Dorsey got into foul trouble they had no other true Big, and Rose will remind you of a young Jason Kidd and is a definite 1 and done top-5 pick


Let's not forget that we also had no business being in that game at the end. It was a complete route until well into the second half. PMAC had 5 or 6 steals on consecutive possessions, and that kept Memphis from getting into their offense for a brief streak (a successful defensive streak that got him pulled from the game). Other than that; Memphis let GU back into that game.

zzzjag
01-22-2008, 09:54 AM
The 9am gametime scares me a bit.

I have been thinking about this and remember the game a few years ago vs Illinois that was an early start time.

Hopefully the Zags will get in and get adjusted to local time. This being said, I have played with some guys lately at 5:30 am and once the games start, you wake up pretty fast....getting out of bed it the hardest part.

beatProgram
01-22-2008, 09:57 AM
the odds are definitely in favor of a Memphis beat down on the zags, but i think your attitude in this thread, ie:having no hope or optimism that the zags can pull off a victory is the reason for your negative rep. I am pretty sure no one gave GU a chance to beat Minnesota, Stanford, and Florida in 1999 but they won. Im sure you've heard the any given sunday spiel. If the zags come out and shoot high 50s to low 60s from the field and dont turn the ball over much they can pull one out. You never know what the outcome will be, you only know that anything can happen... pessimism usually ends up with negative rep points on this board bud.

I think the frustration comes from expectations. This 2007/2008 team is not that 1999 team, and by that I mean that this year's team is full of top-tier nationally recruited players.

The frustration is that the other teams who have a relatively consistent storied history over the last decade seem to "have it together" more than these guys do, and more that previous GU teams (with much less talent) had it figured out by now.

You take the best team (talent wise), take 10 years of great coaching, add an excellent new Assistant, and then watch them play tepid uninspired basketball (many times not even fundamentally sound) for almost half of almost every game... well it's a little baffling.

D Hark 2003
01-22-2008, 10:04 AM
You have forgotten that our team only has two seniors on it, and they are both role players. Those teams of the past that you speak of always had one star that was the senior leader. Pendo is definitely a leader but he is not a star caliber player like Dickau, Santangelo or Frahm, Stepp, and Turiaf. Those guys were the leaders of the team and the best players on the team. This year our best player might be boldin and he doesnt really seem to be a real big vocal leader yet because he is an underclassmen. Maybe your expectations were a little pre-mature.

Ezag
01-22-2008, 10:07 AM
if it be so...then let the rout begin (or not!)

ZagsGoZags
01-22-2008, 10:20 AM
They won't be playing at 9 am, they will be playing at 11:00 am, after being there a couple of nights.

Texas,
I am just glad people feel free to give their honest opinions on this board. I wouldn't want it any other way.

I predict we win by 2 or 3 points

beatProgram
01-22-2008, 10:28 AM
You have forgotten that our team only has two seniors on it, and they are both role players. Those teams of the past that you speak of always had one star that was the senior leader. Pendo is definitely a leader but he is not a star caliber player like Dickau, Santangelo or Frahm, Stepp, and Turiaf. Those guys were the leaders of the team and the best players on the team. This year our best player might be boldin and he doesnt really seem to be a real big vocal leader yet because he is an underclassmen. Maybe your expectations were a little pre-mature.

Mine? Not really. I get aggravated with the coaching staff as I'm watching a team like Texas Tech kick the crap out of us, because the rotations and the gameplan seem completely off.

I didn't expect much this year at all. I'm looking forward to Gray, Bouldin, and Daye down the road though. I don't buy all the Heytfelt hype. I just don't see it. Pargo is possibly the worst true-point guard GU has had in more than 15 years (poor shooting, suspect passing, bad clock management, and 50% from the line). You want to talk about someone who should be a role player. The offense appears much more efficient with Bouldin and Gray controlling the point.

More than any other player I'm most impressed with Kuso's improvement. He can set solid picks. He runs the floor to keep up with the offense. He's using his size better to establish position. If he could develop some back-to-the-basket post moves he'd be quite a force.

Both Daye and Gray have outdone my expectations. They're incredible players who are establishing their position early on a team that wasn't setup for them to get this much playing time. Bouldin is the best PG that Gonzaga has ever recruited. Pendo is a role-model student-athlete and an incredible hustle-guy (his 3pt shot is pretty sweet as well). Kuso is foul-prone, but he's banging away the best he can. When Downs is playing aggressive there's no more potent a balanced offensive/defensive player on the West Coast.

Heytfelt still looks like he's phoning it in. Pargo shaved his damn name into his head for the NCAA tourney, and that "drinks his own kool-aid" attitude seems like it may have extended an extra season. I'm probably hardest on these two because the hype-machine around them is just completely ridiculous.

This board was bustling with Final Four talk, top-25 pre-season rankings, people saying we weren't ranked high enough, etc. etc. etc.

It's a bit disingenuous to start coming down hard on other forum members and lavishing them with negative-rep when it's most of these same spirit-police that have built others' expectations up so hopelessly out of whack with reality; based on all the analysis, watching pick-up games, and scoping practices.

When last year's team was so obviously just happy to have made it to the NCAA tourney (there's no way they came to win anything with the "performance" they lobbed out there); I was mostly looking forward to seeing the new guard of GU players take stride (Daye, Gray, Bouldin, Sacre, Brown). To that extent I've been pretty dang pleased.

That said, Memphis is really f'ing good. I haven't seen anything this year from GU that indicates to me that they'll be able to beat Memphis. For me, it'll be a victory if it looks like GU at least belongs on the same court as Memphis this year. If we win, I'll dress up like a tiger and let the lot of you beat me with pointy sticks.

D Hark 2003
01-22-2008, 11:07 AM
I dont know if you were referring to me, but i havent given anyone any negative rep points as a result of this thread. If you got some it was from someone else.

I think you are being way too hard on Heytvelt and Pargo in your comments. I didnt see pargo out there hyping himself as the GOAT. It was other people's opinions. He is no where close to being the worst point guard in the last 15 years. He might have the worst jumper, but he is good at driving and creating offense for himself and others, and lately he has not turned it over much. Heytvelt obviously is not back to full physical strength. His leaping ability was what made him so dangerous last year when he could dunk on most people, and contest every interior shot on D. He hasnt gotten his legs back yet this year which makes it hard for a skinnier guy to be dangerous in the post.

beatProgram
01-22-2008, 11:29 AM
Not directed at you. I was just sticking up for the OP based on one of his posts.

You can make a living being a hack/slash guard as long as you have two other qualities... excellent court-vision and dead-eye free-throw shooting. Pargo has neither.

D Hark 2003
01-22-2008, 12:24 PM
Pargo has excellent court vision, i would say it was pretty evident on that alley oop from half court to Ira Brown, and he also has the strength and explosiveness to finish around the rim unlike some of the PGs from the Past few GU squads. I think pargo is lacking in his jump shot and in his clutch situation decision making. but he is still a junior those are things he should improve on over time.