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View Full Version : The only good thing about today's game...



jazzdelmar
01-19-2008, 01:58 PM
The only good thing about today's game...was Grier's tan........

FuManShoes
01-19-2008, 02:05 PM
... and the fact that the Zags won. I thought that was a positive development.

jazzdelmar
01-19-2008, 02:08 PM
... and the fact that the Zags won. I thought that was a positive development.


Ur quite the sunny optimist.................

Birddog
01-19-2008, 02:09 PM
Letting a 22 pt lead shrink to 10 is not a sign of greatness. A lot of sloppy play in the 2nd half. Zags were clearly superior talent wise but they had many lapses. With play like that, Memphis will eat their lunch. Gotta give Johnson some credit though.

Birddog

mdZag23
01-19-2008, 02:16 PM
I thought that Mark and Leon could have done a much better job of coaching in the second half. That was not good!

btzag
01-19-2008, 02:22 PM
After seeing three top 10 teams lose today to inferior opponents, with UCLA and UNC at home, I will take the win with no complaints....

jim77
01-19-2008, 02:25 PM
We definately had a letdown in the 2nd half but, San Diego is better than most give credit. St Mary's had better watchout for these guys! We will also have a tough one down there. Coach Grier has the fellas on the right track...that Johnson is a baller.

HOOTER
01-19-2008, 02:30 PM
A win is a win. This sort of thing is going to happen every now and then, even in conference play. My guess is that they'll respond with a much more solid performance against San Fran.

gu03alum
01-19-2008, 02:35 PM
Another thing that was concerning (and I think its been brought up after other games) is we are still not making free throws at the end of the game. Micah and Pendo, who had a great game, come to mind missing big free throws near the end. If we are going to compete with the best teams, we need to make those to end the game and hold off a come back attempt.

Goshzagit
01-19-2008, 02:36 PM
Plus, what was going on with our rotation during the game? Very odd for Few to change it up following impressive wins and cohesion on offense versus Pepp and LMU. I didn't understand his coaching strategy in this game at all.

First, the team was having success pushing the ball up the court in an up tempo fashion just like we did against Pepp, then in the 2nd half we go to half-court sets and slow the game down?!?! Explain that to me. Secondly, Austin was clearly a mismatch in the front/back courts and on defense against San Diego and barely plays the rest of the way, that is just a joke. Third, we see little to no Ira who could have been a nice change of pace on defense to guard B. Johnson considering Pargo was getting outplayed and consistently beaten off the dribble?!?! I know the players are accountable for their lack of intensity throughout, yet Few clearly changed his approach after we went up by 20+...

Could this have been a "friendly" gesture by Few to keep the game close playing against one of his best friends? Just sayin', since I can't think of any other explanation for his coaching decisions during this game.

roxdoc
01-19-2008, 02:48 PM
FWIW First half Matt, Micah & Gray = 30 pts. Second half = 8 pts. Obviously going to Josh more in 2nd half (probably good practice for him) and Pargo was looking to score more. Terrible, lazy ball handling in 2nd half, particularly "4th Quarter". Radio said that Pargo & Matt had 11 turnovers between them (I think they said that was in just the second half). So much for "foot on the throat".

BroncoZAG615
01-19-2008, 02:49 PM
Ahhh there it is. All this optimism recently was really getting exhausting. Thanks for the valid points Jazz....really hope we can eek a few more wins out...

HOOTER
01-19-2008, 02:50 PM
If we are going to compete with the best teams, we need to make those to end the game and hold off a come back attempt.

True. Few needs to put some guy's on the team through some serious free throw drills.

BTW, that's an interesting ghost pic, if that's actually what it is. I'd love to hear the story behind that one.

GoZags
01-19-2008, 03:04 PM
Ur quite the sunny optimist.................

Out of curiosity, how did the Toreros do at Rupp?

VinnyZag
01-19-2008, 03:11 PM
they let up the last 10-12 minutes or so, way to early against a pretty good team like San Diego. This continues a disturbing trend we've seen -- Georgia, LMU, etc.
I guess I'm not as down as some people because that seems correctable to me. In fact, I thought they had it corrected after Pepperdine ... guess not.
I'll bet they beat San Francisco by 30 on Monday. But if they have ANY lapses against Memphis next Saturday, ugh. They could lose that one by 30.

bartruff1
01-19-2008, 03:14 PM
Plus, what was going on with our rotation during the game? Very odd for Few to change it up following impressive wins and cohesion on offense versus Pepp and LMU. I didn't understand his coaching strategy in this game at all.

First, the team was having success pushing the ball up the court in an up tempo fashion just like we did against Pepp, then in the 2nd half we go to half-court sets and slow the game down?!?! Explain that to me. Secondly, Austin was clearly a mismatch in the front/back courts and on defense against San Diego and barely plays the rest of the way, that is just a joke. Third, we see little to no Ira who could have been a nice change of pace on defense to guard B. Johnson considering Pargo was getting outplayed and consistently beaten off the dribble?!?! I know the players are accountable for their lack of intensity throughout, yet Few clearly changed his approach after we went up by 20+
Could this have been a "friendly" gesture by Few to keep the game close playing against one of his best friends? Just sayin', since I can't think of any other explanation for his coaching decisions during this game. Lets see, is it 223...that is TWO HUNDRED...AND TWENTY THREE///

Bulldog
01-19-2008, 03:32 PM
" Coaching was pitiful during this game.... "

I just can't figure out why the coaches don't call us and get our opinions and suggestions at half time so they know what to do in the second half.
Just because you have had the best record of any WCC team in the last ten years doesn't mean you know what you're doing.

Holy jumping and down Martha, give me a break.

gamagin
01-19-2008, 03:35 PM
40 minutes of hell, all from us, like in the Pepp game. I saw about 20-25 at the most.

the other 15 came from SD which seemed to gain strength when a few desparate maneuvers started working.

Like trapping Matt, stealing the ball from Pargo, causing hustle turnovers (even Pendo got picked 2-3 times) and generally restoring their esteem in the process of making serious challenges to our lead and comfort.

I'm not sure what the deal was re off & def boards, but it seemed to me our bigs, JH & kuso, were boxed out or not near the ball way too often. SD had three guys under our basket all night. there were too many times we had none.

micah (i think the bandage is gone), pendo and even pargo seemed more active, at least at the def end, too, in getting boards. But generally, SD seemed to own that turf.

Weird.

FuManShoes
01-19-2008, 04:22 PM
Ur quite the sunny optimist.................

I was gonna let this go, but hell, I'm feeling my oats. The Zags will never play a perfect game, OK? They came pretty darn close against Pepperdine and had they kept their foot on the throttle and kept the starters in, maybe they would have scored 110 pts and won by 45+. The Zags looked that good for the first 10 mins of this game, then USD started getting some shots to fall. I'm really not sure if the defense sagged or if guys like Johnson and Jones just started hitting tough shots. I tend to think it was the latter based on what I saw and Few's apparent smile at half. So all in all, the Zags played a great first half. The second half was a different story. The Zags got that big lead and then clearly let up. Whereas they busted ass up the court to beat the Pepperdine press, they were way too tentative against the Toreros and turned the ball over repeatedly. The offense was stagnant and the defense got very sloppy. Also, something must have been wrong with Austin, because he didn't play much at all.

OK, so there's an honest assessment of the game: Zags come out on fire, get sloppy, let USD back into it, eek it out.

But this insinuation that the Zags didn't do anything well, that there was nothing positive to take away from the game other than the return of a well-tanned ex-assistant coach and his hot wife is RIDICULOUS. Six guys scored in double figures, Zags shot better than 50% for game and from three, they never trailed and get this, they WON - again - and in a highly emotional game., no less. But forget all that. The fact that the Zags let USD back in the game outweighs all that stuff. Few should be ashamed. Maybe he should make some guys suck their thumbs and clean the floor with toothbrushes.

I'm no Pollyanna, but if one can't even be objective and accept a win rather than immediately discounting it and seemingly always dwelling on/reveling in a team's shortcomings, well I don't know what to say that. It makes me wonder if anything these guys do will ever be good enough. In such a hapless, under-performing world, might I suggest you hug someone, adopt a puppy or get close and personal with a good beer because otherwise we're DOOMED to endure the kind of endless pissing and moaning about 300 other D-1 teams would kill for.

GoZags
01-19-2008, 04:33 PM
".........always dwelling on/reveling in a team's shortcomings......"

Bingo

Ziggy
01-19-2008, 04:45 PM
It is more convenient to argue in absolutes. It makes the argument stronger somehow. If you give a balanced review it just doesn't make the same kind of splash. Even if it is disingenuous. Some people are just like that even if they are college educated.

ZagNative
01-19-2008, 04:46 PM
We had to put up with Jazz's perpetual sneer about D-Rav all last year, and this year he's targeted Pargo for his particular brand of contempt ... for a kid, barely more than a boy.

I have the feeling that Jazz and a handful of noisy others here watch the game with a focus on mistakes and are absolutely gleeful when someone screws up and they can come on the board and ridicule 18- and 20-year-old kids.

It's pathetic.

BobZag
01-19-2008, 05:01 PM
We had to put up with Jazz's perpetual sneer about D-Rav all last year, and this year he's targeted Pargo for his particular brand of contempt ... for a kid, barely more than a boy.

I have the feeling that Jazz and a handful of noisy others here watch the game with a focus on mistakes and are absolutely gleeful when someone screws up and they can come on the board and ridicule 18- and 20-year-old kids.

It's pathetic.

Poor Goodsen and Gibbs. They are doomed.

alaskazagnut
01-19-2008, 05:15 PM
Jazz is all or nothing, when it comes to praise. (usually nothing). If a game had 51% good and 49% bad, he will focus on the bad TO MAKE A POINT.

I think what Jazz meant was that we still cannot or WILL NOT put inferior teams away and blow them out of the water. If we cannot develop that mentality or maintain a level of play to do that, we will likely have the same result come March Madness as we did last year.

I agree in part with Jazz if that is, roughly, what he meant.

ZagSlug
01-19-2008, 05:27 PM
And look how active this thread is.........

MickMick
01-19-2008, 05:40 PM
Poor Goodsen and Gibbs. They are doomed.


If Gibbs can post up like Matt. If Goodsen is Pendo (intangibles) in the form of a lightning quick point guard.

Then the WCC is doomed.

sittingon50
01-19-2008, 06:25 PM
Apparently there were a lot of Florida Tourists & kids who had backed the car ALL the way out of the driveway for the 1st time out on Hwy 395 as I trekked home from the game. Took me an extra 40 minutes to make my driveway. So now I find that

THE OFFICIAL PISSING & MOANING THREAD got started without me. btZag nailed it- anyone can go down anytime (even at home). So here's my complaining:

Zags margin of victory in league dropped from 28.5 to 22.3!! What's going on?:mad:

HOOTER
01-19-2008, 06:29 PM
Zags margin of victory in league dropped from 28.5 to 22.3!! What's going on?:mad:

Uh oh! 22.3 just ain't gonna cut it! Were doomed!:lmao:

23dpg
01-19-2008, 06:32 PM
Ur quite the sunny optimist.................

And you are quite the gloomy pessimist.

Rubbadub
01-19-2008, 06:40 PM
We had to put up with Jazz's perpetual sneer about D-Rav all last year, and this year he's targeted Pargo for his particular brand of contempt ... I have the feeling that Jazz and a handful of noisy others here watch the game with a focus on mistakes

100% correct

Ziggy
01-19-2008, 11:10 PM
The optimist is disappointed, the pessimist is surprised. I 'll take the former thank you

montanazag88
01-20-2008, 07:58 AM
Love it. Not sure what enters the mind when reading this post other than the fact we have a lot of fans who want to win against the best of the best, win in March - win deep into the tourney. Pessimist or optimist, the karma is still good.

For the pessimist, the best approach, it seems, has always been to focus on how to improve the weaknesses, while optimists excel when they avoid looking at the glory of stats and taking the position that we're better than anyone can expect.

If we sacrificed our lives for the sake of basketball, we would know why coach Few does what he does because we would be sitting next to him during the game. However, we don't know...we just remember UCLA in the tourney and think, "we have yet to improve on a weakness." Legit?!

Maybe the balance between the pessimist and the optimist, as with all things in life, is the competitive realist....ever vigilant to improve on those things one can control and to leave the rest to sports writers.

True fans make it work no matter the outcome, but they will always "keep it real" - as they should. It appears, most here like to read some of the criticism to produce some hope(optimism) the next series of games will display the improvements that, from this view, seem to be keys to big-game success.

At the risk of sounding too "rosy," all views seem to mesh together in these threads fairly well. (No, I'm not hugging the laptop.)

ZagMania
01-20-2008, 08:57 AM
I personally had no problems with the team taking their foot off San Diego's throat in the 2nd half. In the first half when we were pushing the ball up and down the court as we did against Pepperdine I think everyone would agree we played terrific. We put up 46 points and had a 17 point lead at half.

In the 2nd half we slowed it down, despite the great comeback by USD I never honestly felt the game was much in question. However, the team is still gelling and while they've excelled when pushing it up the court it is going to take a while longer for them to mesh in the halfcourt game for obvious reasons. If they are going to go somewhere this season they are going to have to be able to play both. So I have no problem with them trying to work these things out when they have a 20 point lead at home. Sure, all the turnovers and lapses were frustrating when we slowed it down, but getting down the half court sets is going to be a little harder then just using our athleticism to beat the other team up and down the court.

Learning how to get Josh involved in the halfcourt, ect. is very necessary when we play teams like WSU that refuse to crash the boards, send everyone back to prevent the fast break, and force you to beat them in a slug it out, slow paced game.

montanazag88
01-20-2008, 12:46 PM
Amen, ZagM, Amen!

Reborn
01-20-2008, 01:16 PM
There is only way to play the game as a champion. You NEVER LET UP. I think that's what the concern is. And you can NOT tell me that the Zags didn't let up, and DID NOT give it 100%. IMO, that's the concern. I heard a nice thing said about Kentucky yesterday by one of the analysist. He said that he's been most impressed lately with Kentucky, even though they have lost some games, Kentucky has given it 100% from the opening whistle to the end. I don't mind losing a hard fought game, where everything is left on the court. But to see Gonzaga let USD off the rope just doesn't sit well with me. I DON'T buy the "he's Few's best friend," argument. Pathetic argument. And I don't buy the announcers reason he gave for Parago letting up...because he also really liked Grier.

I think it was John Wooden who never stressed winning or losing. I guess he never talked about it. He was a perfectionist during practice, and expected it from his team. His focus was on how you play from the opening whistle to the end.

Also the way Gonzaga played in the last 5 minutes of this game has me really worried, because this would have been a perfect game to practice closing out a game with class. But no. We miss two one and one's. Turn the ball over 4-5 times, and Pendo gets outhustled twice. Since when has Pendo been outhustled? How many games have we already seen this year when Gonzaga has not been able to close the deal......

I am worried folks. This does not look like a tough team to me.

FuManShoes
01-20-2008, 02:27 PM
Pendo got outhustled twice? I thought he was the only guy playing with fire at the end: he blocked Pomare (how the hell did he do that) and got the steal that sealed the game. As always, the other guys would do well to follow Pendo's lead. Nah, what bothered me most about the let-up was the lame, lame execution against the press. The Zags stood around, waited for defenders to arrive, dribbled right into pressure and generally looked as if they's never faced a press before.

and apparently Brian Michaelson agrees about Pendo:

For as well as numerous people played Saturday, Pendo’s 8 points, 9 rebounds and overall solid play were the most important to the Zags victory. Pendo’s importance to this team was demonstrated best in the game’s closing seconds when the team was having difficulty making plays to close out San Diego and Pendo made huge block on Pomare who appeared to have an easy lay-in to further cut into the Zag’s slim margin. David’s effort and leadership are so valuable to this Gonzaga ball club, and Saturday his value was on display as much as anytime this season.

rawkmandale
01-21-2008, 12:09 AM
Well, Reborn's vision (bless his heart - major Zag fan) may be a little cloudy, because he wants Pendo to sit to give more time for Austin Daye (see other threads for confirmation of that). I'd rather have Pendo in the game for significant minutes this year, and teach Austin the fine points of college basketball, including how to be "in your time." The kid will be great in his time.

I just don't think it is wise to want our co-captain on the bench. He may have greatness in store for us - just like Calvary did against Florida. He has "instincts."

Zag79
01-21-2008, 12:19 AM
pendo gets his time and deservingly so. not to get this topic off track, but my favorite line up is:

pargo
bouldin
micah
pendo
josh

Rubbadub
01-21-2008, 06:08 AM
Someone did the stats work that clearly showed our best line up, at least in the last game, was when Pendo and JH were in the game. I'm interested in how exactly they got that stat (without manually having to record it). I'd love to be able to keep track of something like that.

kitzbuel
01-21-2008, 08:53 AM
Someone did the stats work that clearly showed our best line up, at least in the last game, was when Pendo and JH were in the game. I'm interested in how exactly they got that stat (without manually having to record it). I'd love to be able to keep track of something like that.
I am searching for it, it was the +/- analysis for the USD game. It was pretty revealing. I would like to see that same type of analysis done over the season. One thing I quickly noticed is that those at the top of that +/- list were also those that are getting the majority of playing time. That makes perfect sense in my mind.

ZagNative
01-21-2008, 08:59 AM
Is this what you want (http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?p=148365#post148365)?

bzzz61
01-21-2008, 09:01 AM
I've been looking for this lately as well. I would love to see it after every game.

ZaggyStardust
01-21-2008, 09:10 AM
I wish I had the energy to go back through the threads to see if the same people who say the Zags aren't tough enough, are also the one's who lambasted Josh for an Elbow in the midst of an outright mugging as being cheap and tacky and unZaglike! Meethinks you can't have it both ways!

SHEESH! This board needs some meds, QUICK!

cjm720
01-21-2008, 10:16 AM
We had to put up with Jazz's perpetual sneer about D-Rav all last year, and this year he's targeted Pargo for his particular brand of contempt ... for a kid, barely more than a boy.

I have the feeling that Jazz and a handful of noisy others here watch the game with a focus on mistakes and are absolutely gleeful when someone screws up and they can come on the board and ridicule 18- and 20-year-old kids.

It's pathetic.

Yeah, I don't agree with anything Jazz said and am responding to ZagNative's ultra-sensitive view of how these players are just kids. Please stop treating them as if they're are little boys that want their mama. It's a big boy world in the NCAAs and they don't need coddling. I love all your recruiting posts and agree with some other posts, but please think of these players as men, not little boys ready to cry over horrible post.

ZagNative
01-21-2008, 11:02 AM
It's game day friend. Tempting as it is to respond, I'm not going to spoil what is going to be a special day for me, as for only the second time, I am able to see this band of young men play in K2 and am able to enjoy the passion and pageantry of college basketball, Gonzaga basketball, in person.

And in case anyone wants to read what I said in context in the post you are referring to, they can read it here (http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?t=6263).

kitzbuel
01-21-2008, 11:12 AM
Is this what you want (http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?p=148365#post148365)?
Bingo

cjm720
01-21-2008, 11:24 AM
It's game day friend. Tempting as it is to respond, I'm not going to spoil what is going to be a special day for me, as for only the second time, I am able to see this band of young men play in K2 and am able to enjoy the passion and pageantry of college basketball, Gonzaga basketball, in person.

And in case anyone wants to read what I said in context in the post you are referring to, they can read it here (http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?t=6263).

ZN, I hope you have a great time...GO ZAGS