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View Full Version : Micah showing signs of Ammo



TM27
02-26-2007, 07:30 PM
Oh my goodness.....

4EVERaZAG
02-26-2007, 07:33 PM
Offensively, Yes. Defensively it is all Micah.

TM27
02-26-2007, 07:34 PM
hahaha very true.... ;)

MedZag
02-26-2007, 07:35 PM
Just made the comment to my friend its like a Ammo meets Erroll moment. He's just taken over the game but he's doing it in some crazy athletic ways.

zagzilla
02-26-2007, 07:59 PM
He is playing in just his second semester of BB (1 each a KU and GU) which suggests he has 3 more years of eligibility left. Can anybody confirm?

former1dog
02-26-2007, 08:01 PM
He is playing in just his second semester of BB (1 each a KU and GU) which suggests he has 3 more years of eligibility left. Can anybody confirm?


Soph

laszagas
02-26-2007, 08:01 PM
2 more years left after this year

wazZag
02-27-2007, 07:14 AM
As soon as he gains strength and polishes up his midrange game he is going to be unstoppable.

former1dog
02-27-2007, 08:33 AM
When news of Micah's transfer came out and in the subsequent weeks and months, given the history, I think many of us questioned whether or not Micah's character was a weakness.

The last few weeks have happily confirmed for me, that not only is character not a weakness for Micah, but in fact is a great strength!

Great ball player and a great kid!

scrooner
02-27-2007, 08:36 AM
When does he start getting more minutes? He only played 21 minutes last night, and led the team in points/min & rebs/min. Box score says he had no fouls. 8/10 shooting. Any reason he didn't play more?

---------minutes--pts/10min-- reb/10min
Pargo----35-------4.29-------1.14
Kusu-----29-------3.10-------2.76
Raivio----28-------1.79-------0.00
Bouldin---27-------1.48-------0.74
Pendo----27-------4.07-------2.22
Mallon----21-------1.90-------0.00
Downs----21-------9.52-------2.86
PMAC-----12-------5.00-------2.50

roxdoc
02-27-2007, 08:39 AM
Over last 3 games Downes is averaging 18+ points per game - right about Raivio's season average. Nice to see him score in several different ways last night. Still needs a little work on the mid-range game, but boy oh boy does he hustle. Lots of off ball movement and all over the place on defense.

CDC84
02-27-2007, 08:39 AM
I doubt you will ever see Micah score as much Ammo. In fact, I doubt he ever averages 20 PPG. For one thing, he is going to have more offensive talent around him the next 2 years than Ammo ever had. Moroever, I think he has a chance to become a better all around player than Ammo. People have mentioned his defensive play so far, but he already is a better passer than Ammo, and with more bulk, heíll be a better rebounder. I donít think he is or will ever be the all around scorer that Adam was, but as I am implying above, he wonít need to be anyway. He can effect the game in other areas besides just putting the ball thru the hoop.

lothar98zag
02-27-2007, 08:49 AM
"Micah Downs is the best 1 on 1 offensive player to ever put on a Gonzaga jersey."



...at least according to Dumb & Dumber, GU's tv announcers last night...


:rolleyes:

former1dog
02-27-2007, 08:51 AM
"Micah Downs is the best 1 on 1 offensive player to ever put on a Gonzaga jersey."



...at least according to Dumb & Dumber, GU's tv announcers last night...


:rolleyes:

How soon they forget. Irrational exuberance? I think Burgess, DDD, and Morrison might have a little to say about that. :D

wazZag
02-27-2007, 08:52 AM
I'm glad MD increased his output at the time he did. Now when teams are prepping for GU they have to consider trying to slow down pargo, raivio and downs, 3 considerable tasks. Three options who score in different ways will play hell wiht some teams defensively. Although it doesn't completely avoid the pain of having little low-post presence, it certainly helps.

tobizag
02-27-2007, 09:15 AM
I would say that Micah is now showing signs of...Micah. I think that as the next few years go by, we will see Micah do things that Adam never did, but we will never see Micah do everything Adam did. Different players. Adam never would have swatted someone like that. Micah won't average 30 pts a game.

But, this doesn't mean Adam wasn't amazing or that Micah won't be an All-American. He certainly could. But as CDC said, with all the talent around him, and his complete arsenal of abilities both offensively and defensively, you'll see him getting all kinds of assists, steals, blocks, etc.

I love the fact that he looks like he loves being a Zag. I love this team.

Go Zags.

TM27
02-27-2007, 10:53 AM
I love the fact that he looks like he loves being a Zag. I love this team.

Go Zags.

That is my favorite thing about Micah as well. Originally I posted "Micah showing signs of Ammo", and both you and CDC are correct, Micah will not be the Ammo type offensive player, and as you both allude to, he can be a player that takes over the game, for short spurts, on both sides of the ball. When I posted this I was referring to the fact that Micah scored on something like 3 or 4 straight possessions, something Ammo would do over and over and over. The announcers just keep saying his name every possession, the cool thing is that he was the focal point on both sides. Correct me if I am wrong, but during his little scoring streak, I think he blocked two shots on the defensive side - one on the Derogatis three ball and another on a Pomare lay up or dunk (which by the way he was way out of position and the fact that he was even able to block the shot is a testament to his athletic ability). Anyhow, I look forward to watching Micah's game and leadership progress.

kylasdad
02-27-2007, 11:17 AM
Micah is usually the first to help somebody on either team up when they are on the ground. I like that from a kid who many thought was a bad apple. Often transfers don't work out well but I think Micah is home.

adoptedzag
02-27-2007, 11:17 AM
When does he start getting more minutes? He only played 21 minutes last night, and led the team in points/min & rebs/min. Box score says he had no fouls. 8/10 shooting. Any reason he didn't play more?

---------minutes--pts/10min-- reb/10min
Pargo----35-------4.29-------1.14
Kusu-----29-------3.10-------2.76
Raivio----28-------1.79-------0.00
Bouldin---27-------1.48-------0.74
Pendo----27-------4.07-------2.22
Mallon----21-------1.90-------0.00
Downs----21-------9.52-------2.86
PMAC-----12-------5.00-------2.50

Did you see him when he got pulled? He was gassed. He's not completely into game shape yet. He's consistently getting more and more minutes, so that'll change; quickly I'm sure.

scrooner
02-27-2007, 11:26 AM
Wasn't able to watch (we had the Blazer game on FSN in Portland), so that's why I'm asking. 21 minutes is a dropoff from his last 3 games (25/28/25), and considering the way others played last night (sickness & all) I figured his minutes would have been up.

brasszag
02-27-2007, 11:41 AM
Maybe he was just fatigued and asked for fewer minutes?

He's still building up his game-speed conditioning...

229SintoZag
02-27-2007, 02:37 PM
Micah won't average 30 pts a game.




Neither did Morrison. Only one Zag has ever done that--Burgess. But I agree that Downs is not likely to get there either.

jaszag
02-27-2007, 03:31 PM
The biggest new wrinkle I've seen from Micah on this last road trip was the dribble penetration with a "pump-fake, pivot, pump-fake, elevate" and hit the soft jumper... taking advantage of his 6'-8" frame and length. This type of move is akin to a scorer, not "just" a shooter. This element of his arsenal - the ability to create his own mid-range shot off the dribble - is an incredibly valuable asset (think options with the shot clock winding down - we've struggled a bit with that this year). While they're very different players, Ammo certainly had this same element to his game.

tobizag
02-27-2007, 03:33 PM
229-

Adam averaged 28.4??? correct? In the WCC it was 29? I was rounding up.

tyra
02-27-2007, 05:41 PM
If Micah continues on this trajectory, could he become the Best All Around player in GU history? I doubt he will be as good a scorer as Ammo. I doubt he will be as good an Assist leader as The Man (aka John Stockton -- whom I do not believe is even the all time assist leader at GU; just in the NBA where he will NEVER be caught.) Anyway, I could go on but the question remains: Does this young man have the potential to be the best all around player we've ever had?

GonzagasaurusFlex
02-27-2007, 06:13 PM
Bump Bump Bump

Zag79
02-28-2007, 09:08 AM
coming out of high school, and to this point in his career he is better than mo was IMO.

lothar98zag
02-28-2007, 09:56 AM
coming out of high school, and to this point in his career he is better than mo was IMO.
In HS, I guess w/ the McD AA you could say MD was better, but AM did pretty well in his own right, especially if you count the results of his team.

As for how good they both are at the end of their SO years @ GU, I'll have to respectfully disagree. AM was a lot better than MD is at this point. AM was the best player on GU the end of his SO year and there was talk of him being a late 1st round NBA pick if he left school. Yes, MD is coming on strong, but he just hasn't played enough and shown the same amount of greatess that AM had show by this point.

I'd like to hear you explain why you think an end of SO year MD is better than AM was at the same time.

tobizag
02-28-2007, 10:08 AM
the argument may be that while Micah is a sophomore, his on court experience is equivalent to the end of Adam's Freshman year. In that sense, the argument may be a little more realistic, but I'd still disagree.

229SintoZag
02-28-2007, 10:22 AM
229-

Adam averaged 28.4??? correct? In the WCC it was 29? I was rounding up.

Correct. To average 30, you have to round Adam's third year at GU up 1.6 points, and you have to round Burgess's third year at GU down 2.4 points.

Just sticking up for Burgess here. No knock on Ammo--he, like Burgess, led the nation in scoring and 28.4 is nothing to sniff at. But he had a 3 point line and a shot clock--Burgess had neither. If we took all of Adam's 3s and made them 2s for last year, his ppg would drop to 25.8 ppg. Kind of puts Burgess's 32.4 ppg average in 1960-1961 in perspective. There is no way to tell how many 3 pointers Burgess would have hit, but it is not unreasonable to hazard a guess that he could have averaged 35 ppg or more if there was a 3 point line.

Zag79
02-28-2007, 11:16 AM
there isnt much to back it up lothar, just me thinking about it. ;) i just think that for the time he has played on this team, micah shows more than mo did at this point. i cant recall mo scoring 18+ for an avg when he started getting good minutes. plus mds 3 pt shot is much better than mos.

tyra
02-28-2007, 11:22 AM
I still think to simply compare point production between these two athletes is a great disservice to MD who shows flashes (we'll all see in time) of multi-dimensional brilliance. The question shouldn't be which is the higher average scorer but which contributes more to his team overall. I can think of no player I enjoyed watching more than Ammo but MD could very well turn out to be the kind of player who brings WHATEVER it takes on a given night whether it is assists, rebounds, defending the undefendable, or scoring or whatever. But it is simply too early to tell about MD. In the meantime, anticipation abounds!

roxdoc
02-28-2007, 11:27 AM
Its a little "early days" yet for comparisons. Time will tell if Downs will measure up to the almighty Ammo. He certainly is exciting to watch, so lets sit back and enjoy for a year or two!

lothar98zag
02-28-2007, 11:28 AM
there isnt much to back it up lothar, just me thinking about it. ;)

Just checking.


i cant recall mo scoring 18+ for an avg when he started getting good minutes.
Take from this what you want:

AMMO

FR
20.8 mpg
11.4 ppg

SO
24.2 mpg
19.0ppg


Downs

SO
all 14 games
16.4 mpg
7.6 ppg

last 4 games (includes 2 OT games, so numbers may be a bit high as a result)
24.7 mpg
15.5 ppg

former1dog
02-28-2007, 11:31 AM
there isnt much to back it up lothar, just me thinking about it. ;) i just think that for the time he has played on this team, micah shows more than mo did at this point. i cant recall mo scoring 18+ for an avg when he started getting good minutes. plus mds 3 pt shot is much better than mos.

In the words of Junior Soprano's (Soprano's Season 1)

"Come packing or don't come at all!"

:D :D :D

Zag79
02-28-2007, 12:28 PM
even if i come packing f1 its still opinions. lothar gave facts on scoring avgs and to me i still think micah is better at this point. micah as a soph is more like mo as a frosh in terms of PT and experience. ill take micah over mo with those stipulations. ask me again next year though! ;)

Zag84
02-28-2007, 02:04 PM
All this comparing and speculation about Micah is really dumb. Give the guy a break and let him grow at his own pace. The guy has had a couple great games but lets not put unneccessary expectations on him. I'm just glad he's doing as well as he is right now.

SamwiseTheZag
02-28-2007, 02:36 PM
Regardless of stats, I think that the appropriate question in evaluating MD's contribution thus far in his short GU career is to ask "where would we be right now without Micah Downs?"

My answer to that question is: not in nearly as good of shape as a team as we are right now.

Who cares if his game resembles Morrison. He is a huge asset to us right now, and I hope that he continues to be.

Vanzagger
02-28-2007, 08:35 PM
I still think to simply compare point production between these two athletes is a great disservice to MD who shows flashes (we'll all see in time) of multi-dimensional brilliance. The question shouldn't be which is the higher average scorer but which contributes more to his team overall. I can think of no player I enjoyed watching more than Ammo but MD could very well turn out to be the kind of player who brings WHATEVER it takes on a given night whether it is assists, rebounds, defending the undefendable, or scoring or whatever. But it is simply too early to tell about MD. In the meantime, anticipation abounds!

True.