PDA

View Full Version : Reasons a player starts



snohozag
01-04-2008, 11:34 AM
There as been a lot talk on the this boarding about the Zags starting 5. Some posters think that tenacity, hard work and seniority are the reasons a player should start.

What about talent? Talent should trump hard work and seniority 80% of the time. I know people would love to start the guys who have given to the program and help build it to where it is today but at some point better players are going to come along to improve the program. Those better players should start and play more minutes. It's very simple. You put the best players on the floor b/c they give you the best chance to win.

Of course, if you have a player with amazing talent but they are a ball hog or have a poor attitude, they shouldn't start.

This should not discredit the players that have given a lot to the program b/c they deserve all the credit in the world.

Discuss.

former1dog
01-04-2008, 11:40 AM
Reasons a player starts ?

Slips Fewie a Benjamin prior to tip off.

:D

sonuvazag
01-04-2008, 11:47 AM
Gonzaga basketball is, indeed, all about the benjamins. No heart no passion. Broken record sarcasm, I know.

Ideally, I think it should be a side that scores quickly and creates some offensive momentum.

Also, I think tenacity really counts and I'm going to take this moment to plug Micah Downs, a four star recruit, McD's AA, and someone who came to GU with questions surrounding him... he is as tenacious a Zag as I've seen in the past twenty odd years of Zag basketball... just wanted to speak my piece about a highly touted NBA aspiring ZAG.

brasszag
01-04-2008, 11:50 AM
Starting 5 should be the group that has the best chance to get the game started right.

That will often constitute veterans (sometimes apparently inexplicably to outsiders) because they are less likely to be discouraged if the first few shots don't fall, or to let the other team make a fast start.

Starting on an even keel and getting the offense started is also a huge benefit.

Or to bring this down to a specific case that's been debated much lately..

Few trusts Pendo to make the right decisions, get things moving in the right direction so that the rest of the players can build on the good start. It's less about loyalty per se - it's more about TRUST. And that can only be earned over time.

applezag
01-04-2008, 11:54 AM
It's very simple. You put the best players on the floor b/c they give you the best chance to win.

Of course, if you have a player with amazing talent but they are a ball hog or have a poor attitude, they shouldn't start.

Agreed, Snoho. Hard work and committment should only be rewarded with PT as far as they produce results on the floor. Gonzaga has been blessed with a number of players over the years who labored day in day out in practice only to see the pine come game time and still accepted that role and were valuable team members. Michaelson might be the best example I can think of.

The art of putting together lineups and rotations is tricky. Do you start your best five players, period? Do you start your best player at each traditional position? Do you start your best unit of guys who are ready to play from the tip? Do you start with a group to enable you to do certain things from the outset? Do you start one guy over another because his ego is more fragile than the other and the other can handle, psychologically, coming off the bench? Do you leave one of your top five on the bench to give you a spark later in the game? Do you consider guys who are constantly in foul trouble being saved until later?

There is a lot to think about. And great coaches come to different conclusions. I think what is probably more important is who you have in in the last 10 minutes of the game. I remember a few years back noticing that game after game, Pendo would be in the mix at the end of the game, despite the fact that he didn't start. To me, this is probably more important than who starts. Sure, a basket late counts the same as a basket early, but the game is a lot tighter late than early, and you need to have your best performers in at that point.

roxdoc
01-04-2008, 12:21 PM
Applezag - your point is made perfectly in the Utah game. Sacre starts over Josh. Because he is still "rehabing" you want Josh playing at the end of the game - and guess what - two FT to seal the deal.

Players should not start because of their longivity or how "Zag" some people think they are. This smacks of seniority in unions. You start who you think is the best for the occasion. Pendo is a good player and has tremendous heart - however he is not always the right guy for a particular situation.

applezag
01-04-2008, 12:30 PM
I don't think Pendo starts because of seniority or Few's loyalty. Brasszag hit the nail on the head--it's about trust. Pendo brings consistency and stability to the court. You know what you are going to get with him and what you get is pretty darn good. Someone has to set the screens, scrap for rebounds, push big guys out of the key, and do other assorted dirty work. You don't need five scorers on the floor (though last time I checked Pendo is around 40% from 3). A guy like Daye brings some potential for scoring and shot blocking that Pendo does not have, but he also could get posted up for easy buckets, get manhandled trying to create shots, etc. (please don't take this as a knock on Daye--he's on his way, just not there yet). Pendo is less risk, less potential for reward.

If Few started based on loyalty and seniority, guys like Michaelson and Shaggy would have been starters--they rarely played.

Robzagnut
01-04-2008, 01:30 PM
All I know is that 'who is starting' is a good dilemma to have.

Much better to have 7-8 guys with great reasons for them starting than what happened last year when GU was stuck with the same starting five and no other options.

I think there were a couple of options with this team this year:

1) They could have gone 25-3 and been bounced early in the tourney.

2) They struggle early, lose of few that they're not supposed to lose, gel late and make a deep run in the tourney.

This years team has the makings of an option 2 team.

rawkmandale
01-04-2008, 02:31 PM
Great post, Malastein. Thanks for the literate response.

HRZag
01-04-2008, 02:53 PM
Malastein, superb post.

That is what Gonzaga is about. Great Teachers and a great end experience.

It is a nice fit and not coincidental, that our coaches would reflect that.

Go Zags.

Reborn
01-04-2008, 03:27 PM
A starter has earned a starting positon by being able to fulfill a role as one of the five starters. The point guard needs to be able to penetrate opposing defenses and kick out to the wings (assists..6 per game), needs to be able to score (10pts per game), Powerforward...rebound and score from 12 feet and in...nice if he has a good 3 pt shot... Wings...are the shooters and scores...consistently score above 10 pts per game. Able to score 20 ppt per game. Center...score 13 ppg and 7 + boards.

Other very important things in order to start, I think you must be an unselfish player, and that means passing the ball when someone has a better shot than you do, and that that person as a better chance of making his shot than you do yours. You must be a good passer to start. High Turnovers will get you on the bench. And if you don't average above 17 ppg you had better be able to playt defense...this is for a Zag. If I were coaching all starters would need to be good defenders to some extent. Maybe not the best 5 defenders.

Starters are all ambassadors for Gonzaga University. If you can not be a great Zag, no matter how good you are, you don't start. Period. A big part of this is being able to get along with the other players on the team.

sonuvazag
01-04-2008, 05:03 PM
Other very important things in order to start, I think you must be an unselfish player, and that means passing the ball when someone has a better shot than you do, and that that person as a better chance of making his shot than you do yours.
Nice, Reborn. Has anyone else noticed Austin is very consistently looking to feed Heytvelt? Very smart move for someone that could be a great high low combo with him.