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View Full Version : Thoughts about the Oklahoma game: The Day After



Reborn
12-21-2007, 08:57 AM
I think it's best to post the day after the game when we lose (for me). I also think it's good to see some positives about the game. I thought it was a very good game myself. I hate losing as much as anyone, but we did. They hit their shots down the stretch and we didn't. I thought the second half of the game was very entertaining basketball. How could you NOT LIKE a game where Pargo played the way he did. He was awesome. And I thought Kuso played his best game of the year, and that is very promising. I saw him really finish with a couple very good dunks, and knock someone on their ass. It's about time someone did that. That shows improvement. It was nice getting Josh back on the court. He needs to begin at some point, and this was where he started. Glad to see him back.

This was NOT a bad loss. It was a good loss. We will learn from it. I'll take a loss to Oklahoma by 4 on the Road any day over a win at home by 20 something against opponents that we should beat by 20. You always learn more by playing tougher opponents. Oh. By the way. I don't think it's been said yet, but we shot 6 foul shots and they shot 23. That IS what happens sometimes when you play on the Road.

Kudos to Capel (not sure of the spelling) Oklahoma's coach. He's a Duke grad, and he understands the importance of Defense and toughness. I think he's a real good young coach...But we also must remember that they played at home. Everyone should know it's tough to win on the road. We now have 2 tough road wins, and 2 tough road losses. We return to the West Coast for the next 3 games, and if we win them all, everthing will be awesome as usual in Zagdom. Don't let this loss disrupt your confidence Zagfans. If we beat Tennessee our joy will be restored. I'm sure there's a lot of doubt right now, but I think this loss will help us beat Tennessee.

Zag4Hire
12-21-2007, 09:01 AM
The trouble is that most of these teams (WKU, Oklahoma, UConn) play out of their minds when they play the Zags. They always take the other team's best shot, win or lose.

Ezag
12-21-2007, 09:50 AM
The other problem is that Few has not been making good coaching decisions in big games. He never made adjustments in the 2nd half of the TT game, He went with Daye to shoot all the shots during the final minutes of the WSU loss and last night did not set any plays downs the stretch. It looked like guys playing ball at the gym.

zagmantis2001
12-21-2007, 10:00 AM
You are so right E-zag!

Let's fire him and make you coach.

Give it a rest.

Texas Zag
12-21-2007, 10:15 AM
It seems to me that in all of our loses this season we shot really bad to start the game. If the zags could come out firing for once they wouldn't get in these close stretch games. Kuso and Pargo missed open layup in the first 5 minutes of the game and I've never seen so many 3-pointers blocked in my life.

As for this being a good loss. That makes no sense what so ever. Just because Oklahoma is a recognizable name doesn't mean losing to them is okay. Their program is rebuilding and is out of the top 25. Oklahoma is a pathetic contender in the Big 12 and if Gonzaga has any hope of maintaining respect they must win these games. How many tims are we going to lose to Big 12 teams? Are we just trying to prove we can't hang with major conferences? GU should be beating them by 10 or more if we are a legit top 20 team. I think this loss proves Gonzaga was over-rated in the polls.

Few has his work cut out for him in finding a working line-up on offense. No one on this team can score consistantly and there is no 3-point threat anywhere on the court. Gonzaga out recruited itself. It is now a team full of talented athletes who under-achieve, rather then a team full of talented shooters that have over-achieved in the past. It has helped our defense, but you have to be able to score to win games too.

zagmantis2001
12-21-2007, 10:18 AM
A fair weather fan if I ever saw one. One post on this board? Give me a break. Your analysis is so terrible, I don't even know where to start.

JAGzag
12-21-2007, 10:31 AM
Gonzaga out recruited itself. It is now a team full of talented athletes who under-achieve, rather then a team full of talented shooters that have over-achieved in the past.

Sorry, but I'm with Zagmantis2001 on this one. What the hell does the above quote even mean?? Way to start your posting career with a bang! Since you seem to be in the mood, please try not to kick the cat on your way out...

Texas Zag
12-21-2007, 10:47 AM
If Gonzaga wants to be considered a major college basketball program and wants to schedule games against major conferences then it has to win them. We lost to an un-ranked down Oklahoma team that won't finish in the top 5 in the Big 12. Just being in a major conference game isn't good enough for me and if you want this team to win a national title then you need to win these games.

As for being a fair weather fan...eat me. I live in the middle of Big 12 country and continue to spread the Gospel of Gonzaga basketball all alone. Are you flying a Gonzaga flag outside of your house in the middle of Burnt Orange and Aggie Maroon? I think not my friends. We have never beaten Bobby Knight and I don't hear the end of that. Our teams have always been better then theirs and they continue to underachieve in games against them. Now we lose to Oklahoma. Need I mention that Stephen F. Austin University beat Oklahoma this year...

If you want to keep getting good recruits from this area like we have been, then you have to win these nationally televised games. Questioning my fanhood is a good responce from your mountain in Spokane. Get out of the mountains and read about a crappy big 12 team that beat your great team that must have just caught a bad break. Give me a break. This was a huge loss that says a lot about this team.

CarolinaZagFan
12-21-2007, 10:53 AM
Hey guys I'm from North Carolina and have been a Zags fan since my 8th grade year (1999). Anyways, yes I'm disappointed with the loss last night, but I'm still not throwing this season away. Many teams out there have already peaked. I definately could see that Josh was out of "basketball shape" last night. Which is fair because he hasn't played a game since Feb. 10 of last year because of the whole shrooms deal. Also, Gray has been pretty impressive in his short time the last two games, and Matt carried us through the start of the season and he's not 100%. I'm still confident that this will be a special year for the Zags. We need to just need to build some cohesiveness and figure out our best lineup. Right now, I like Micah at the 3 and Austin at the 4 when we're in the 2-3 zone with their length and athletic ability they can really pressure the 3 point shot. And when Heytvelt gets his athleticism and quickness back, we'll have a great shot blocker down low patrolling the paint, the zone will be a great weapon for us defensively. Sorry for the long post. I'm just very excited about this year...hopefully we have everything together when we play Memphis, I can't wait for that game. It will be only my second chance to see Gonzaga play in person I already have my tickets so now I'm just killing time until Jan. 26th

jigga5
12-21-2007, 11:09 AM
It seems to me that in all of our loses this season we shot really bad to start the game. If the zags could come out firing for once they wouldn't get in these close stretch games. Kuso and Pargo missed open layup in the first 5 minutes of the game and I've never seen so many 3-pointers blocked in my life.

As for this being a good loss. That makes no sense what so ever. Just because Oklahoma is a recognizable name doesn't mean losing to them is okay. Their program is rebuilding and is out of the top 25. Oklahoma is a pathetic contender in the Big 12 and if Gonzaga has any hope of maintaining respect they must win these games. How many tims are we going to lose to Big 12 teams? Are we just trying to prove we can't hang with major conferences? GU should be beating them by 10 or more if we are a legit top 20 team. I think this loss proves Gonzaga was over-rated in the polls.

Few has his work cut out for him in finding a working line-up on offense. No one on this team can score consistantly and there is no 3-point threat anywhere on the court. Gonzaga out recruited itself. It is now a team full of talented athletes who under-achieve, rather then a team full of talented shooters that have over-achieved in the past. It has helped our defense, but you have to be able to score to win games too.

Shut up, what are you even talking about? What team does not recruit top tier talent? So you think the coaches are thinking to themselves, hey lets not recruit Daye because we might be too good? Look at the talent that was on the N.C vs Illinois championship game from a couple years back... do you know how many players from those teams are in the NBA? Did those teams overrecruit? Heck No, bottom line is that everyone can learn to play together and find a role. That illinois team had three NBA guards in the backcourt and nobody ever complained. take that garbage elsewhere

jigga5
12-21-2007, 11:15 AM
If Gonzaga wants to be considered a major college basketball program and wants to schedule games against major conferences then it has to win them. We lost to an un-ranked down Oklahoma team that won't finish in the top 5 in the Big 12. Just being in a major conference game isn't good enough for me and if you want this team to win a national title then you need to win these games.

As for being a fair weather fan...eat me. I live in the middle of Big 12 country and continue to spread the Gospel of Gonzaga basketball all alone. Are you flying a Gonzaga flag outside of your house in the middle of Burnt Orange and Aggie Maroon? I think not my friends. We have never beaten Bobby Knight and I don't hear the end of that. Our teams have always been better then theirs and they continue to underachieve in games against them. Now we lose to Oklahoma. Need I mention that Stephen F. Austin University beat Oklahoma this year...



If you want to keep getting good recruits from this area like we have been, then you have to win these nationally televised games. Questioning my fanhood is a good responce from your mountain in Spokane. Get out of the mountains and read about a crappy big 12 team that beat your great team that must have just caught a bad break. Give me a break. This was a huge loss that says a lot about this team.


"Are you flying a Gonzaga flag outside of your house in the middle of Burnt Orange and Aggie Maroon? I think not my friends"

Congrats... do you want a medal for that flag? And who do you think you are, coming in here parading on these people? Some posters have been loyal zag fans for 30-40 years bro.. you are a nobody here and dont try to act like you are better than anybody else.

Texas Zag
12-21-2007, 11:48 AM
Shut up, what are you even talking about? What team does not recruit top tier talent? So you think the coaches are thinking to themselves, hey lets not recruit Daye because we might be too good? Look at the talent that was on the N.C vs Illinois championship game from a couple years back... do you know how many players from those teams are in the NBA? Did those teams overrecruit? Heck No, bottom line is that everyone can learn to play together and find a role. That illinois team had three NBA guards in the backcourt and nobody ever complained. take that garbage elsewhere

Luther Head and Darrin Williams are both in the NBA. Williams is starting in Utah and Head plays significant time in Houston. Head is a clutch 3 point shooter.

Mays plays with Morrison in Charlotte, but is out with injury this year.

Just FYI if you want to talk about NBA talent...

Beyond all that...I'm not here to disrespect any other Zag fan. I just think it is okay to point out some flaws in the team. I am a Gonzaga grad, so I don't view the world with blinders on.

Bottom line is that oklahoma loss is a bad loss. I still stand by the Zags, but we better get are Cinderella slippers ready because I see us moving away from being a national powerhouse. This team has no shooters. Are best 3-point shooter appears to our forward pendergraft, and that isn't a good sign.

Recruiting athletic types is fine if you know how to manage it. I'm not saying Daye is a bad, but he isn't ready for big time college ball yet. I think he has great potential. It is just that Gonzaga used to red shirt a guy like that so he could learn to shoot and fit in the system. I'm not making this up either...I'm sure all of you have read Bravehearts, the Rise Against All Odds...In the book Few himself said that he looked for shooters first and Gonzaga always looked to red shirt freshman. I thought that strategy was working and now I guess it is changing...It just doesn't make much sense to me.

Texas Zag
12-21-2007, 11:50 AM
"Are you flying a Gonzaga flag outside of your house in the middle of Burnt Orange and Aggie Maroon? I think not my friends"

Congrats... do you want a medal for that flag? And who do you think you are, coming in here parading on these people? Some posters have been loyal zag fans for 30-40 years bro.. you are a nobody here and dont try to act like you are better than anybody else.

1) I am championing Gonzaga basketball where no one else is doing it, so in a way I am a pioneer.
2) I'm only my sister's bro
3) Internet message boards exist for talking smake and parading on people who were at Gonzaga in the nut hugger era.

brasszag
12-21-2007, 11:56 AM
Played injured or recovering from injury in the OU game:

Jeremy Pargo (knee)
Matt Bouldin (ankle and calf)
Micah Downs (notice that hand is still taped up - or coming back in the game with staples holding his head together)
Josh Heytvelt (foot)
Steven Gray (shooting wrist)

I think that pretty much says it all as to why we lost.

Anyone care to disagree?

Texas Zag
12-21-2007, 11:59 AM
Poor excuse in my opinion. If Pargo makes one more layup no says a thing about injuries.

brasszag
12-21-2007, 12:07 PM
Then it becomes a win in spite of injuries.

These guys are fighting though pain just to go out there - and then they're going up and competing as high level athletes.

This years team is doing very well despite the injuries. Now that everyone will have a week to heal and rest and work on conditioning and mobility of affected joints... and get to work on integrating the two new components into the system I think we'll start seeing the this year's team start to fulfill it's promise.

They've weathered the storm - gone up against a lot of good teams in hostile environments. I'd say the only should-have-won is Texas Tech. WSU is clearly a better team than GU at this point, and Oklahoma was just too much for our walking wounded to hang with.

zagmantis2001
12-21-2007, 12:07 PM
Yep, you are totally right Tex. Isn't that what you want to hear?

Keep on shootin' straight and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Texas Zag
12-21-2007, 12:13 PM
Yep, you are totally right Tex. Isn't that what you want to hear?

Keep on shootin' straight and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

YES!!!

However, I'm not leaving. I still pay a loan every month for my Gonzaga degree, and every time this team wins that degree goes up in value. So I'm forever attached to the zags. The degree becomes priceless when some Jethro or Bubba hillbilly type from the Big 12 needs to eat his words when we win those games.

I'm glad you are starting to see my side of it...:)

sittingon50
12-21-2007, 01:36 PM
My list now grows to 8.

TexasZagFan
12-21-2007, 02:01 PM
My list now grows to 8.

If you're referring to your "ignore list", please note that it is "Texas Zag", and NOT "TexasZagFan". :D

TexasZagFan
12-21-2007, 02:07 PM
1) I am championing Gonzaga basketball where no one else is doing it, so in a way I am a pioneer.
2) I'm only my sister's bro
3) Internet message boards exist for talking smake and parading on people who were at Gonzaga in the nut hugger era.

A pioneer? Hardly. Be advised that there are plenty of folks championing Zag hoops in Texas. A new alumni chapter has been borne in the Metroplex, and there's the potential for over 100 alumni.

Last night's loss was far from a debacle. Over the past few years, we have more than held our own against Big 12 teams, and are 2-0 against UT.

WTF is "smake"?

El Voce
12-21-2007, 02:10 PM
If you're referring to your "ignore list", please note that it is "Texas Zag", and NOT "TexasZagFan". :D

There is only one Texas Zag Fan! There is only one zagzealot. The fakes are a product of The Man!

Down with The Man!!!

TexasZagFan
12-21-2007, 02:13 PM
There is only one Texas Zag Fan! There is only one zagzealot. The fakes are a product of The Man!

Down with The Man!!!

AND THERE WILL ALWAYS BE ONLY ONE...

EL VOCE!!!

DOWN WITH THE MAN!!!

RenoZag
12-21-2007, 02:15 PM
Beyond all that...I'm not here to disrespect any other Zag fan. I just think it is okay to point out some flaws in the team. I am a Gonzaga grad, so I don't view the world with blinders on.



If you think this particular internet bulletin board is for talking smack and telling others "eat me" isn't a sign of disrespect, then you're on a quick path to enlisting for the Scout site or joining up with the DonsCentral gang.

Reborn
12-21-2007, 02:44 PM
Thanks Texas Zag Fan for the clarification...seems to be a significant difference...like 1500 posts:D Just kidding. But still good to know.

I thinks it's great that Texas Fan can come here and post what he thinks. I have no problem at all with that. If the post gets past the moderators it's fine with me. I encourage everyone to share their thoughts openly, as he/she did. No cruelty noticed by me. However, his impression of the Zags seems to come from some kind of disillusionment or resentment. I'm not sure, but it's so awefully inaccurate that I'm not quite sure what to think.

The Zags are not an Elite basketball program because any of us think or say they are. The Zags record over the past ten years speaks for itself, and specifically our record in the NCAA tournament. The basketball gurus in our country are the ones who objectively feel we're an (if not an elite program) a major basketball program in The USA.

That being said, please read Andy Katz's post about Josh and the GU vs Oklahoma thread. He seemed to agree with me...it was NOT a bad loss. In your analysis Texas fan, you seem to be of the opinion that the Zags are at full strength right now. If you think that, I'd say you must not read anything at all about GU basketball. Should Duke worry about being an Elite team because they lost to Pittsburg last night?

If you believe that losing to Oklahoma can not be a good thing than I just feel your simply just pissed off because we lost to a Big 12 team which is the terrritory you now live in and you feel embarrassed by the loss. If you do love the Zags as you indicate, I think you would be backing them as you say you do. Or do you merely back your fav team when they win...thus the insinuation of being a fare-weathered-friend. A good loss is a loss where there is something to learn. Gonzaga, being as young as they are, has plenty to learn.

Losing sucks sometimes. It hurts too. I think most fans feel the hurt after a loss but most don't just go balistic. GU is a good team right now. We're going to get a lot better believe me. Losing this game or the one to Tech does not indicate that we suck. Along the journey one must learn to accept defeat when it comes and learn from it. We were suppose to lose for some reason.

OH...ps...Oklahoma is not as bad as you think. just because they are unranked right now means nothing. Just as us being ranked means nothing at this time of year. Let's wait a month or so before we say that we suck.

sittingon50
12-21-2007, 05:33 PM
TZF. You're still here (until your politics drive me over the edge)!! :lmao:

The imposter is not.

Larryzag
12-22-2007, 07:11 AM
Hey guys I'm from North Carolina and have been a Zags fan since my 8th grade year (1999). Anyways, yes I'm disappointed with the loss last night, but I'm still not throwing this season away. Many teams out there have already peaked. I definately could see that Josh was out of "basketball shape" last night. Which is fair because he hasn't played a game since Feb. 10 of last year because of the whole shrooms deal. Also, Gray has been pretty impressive in his short time the last two games, and Matt carried us through the start of the season and he's not 100%. I'm still confident that this will be a special year for the Zags. We need to just need to build some cohesiveness and figure out our best lineup. Right now, I like Micah at the 3 and Austin at the 4 when we're in the 2-3 zone with their length and athletic ability they can really pressure the 3 point shot. And when Heytvelt gets his athleticism and quickness back, we'll have a great shot blocker down low patrolling the paint, the zone will be a great weapon for us defensively. Sorry for the long post. I'm just very excited about this year...hopefully we have everything together when we play Memphis, I can't wait for that game. It will be only my second chance to see Gonzaga play in person I already have my tickets so now I'm just killing time until Jan. 26th

Welcome to the board. You sound like a great Zag fan. How in the world did you become a GU fan when you are from North Carolina? It's not like you don't have any local teams to root for. What other teams do you follow? Anyway, thanks for a good post in amongst all the crap.

CarolinaZagFan
01-01-2008, 07:26 PM
Haha hey LarryZag, sorry it tok so long to respond but I was on vacation and couldn't find the thread for a while. Anyways, I'm not real sure how I became a Zag fan. It started back in 1999 when I was in the 8th grade. I've just always had a soft spot for the underdogs. I guess I was always undersized in sports but didn't complain, I just dealt with it. Anyways, my dad and brother went to UNC, but I can't stand UNC's fans, and NC State fans are even worse. Anyways, I'm a senior at East Carolina University and play baseball there. So of course I always cheer for them, but our basketball program has always been awful, as you can imagine it's pretty tough to recruit around here. Anyways, my favorite in state basketball team is probably Duke. I just really like seeing people hustle and play all out all the time. By the way, I have got a pretty loyal Gonzaga fan base going here in Greenville, NC...And since GU doesn't have a football team why not cheer on the Pirates, we have a pretty good tradition with football and just beat Boise State in the Hawaii Bowl.

zag69
01-01-2008, 09:03 PM
CarolinaZagFan: just coincidentally, the Tacoma News Tribune's website (http://www.thenewstribune.com/) has a "First 2008 Baby" photo on the front page. The mom is an ECU grad, and the baby has a Tigers cap on her little head. A cute picture.

pbriz
01-01-2008, 10:12 PM
Haha hey LarryZag, sorry it tok so long to respond but I was on vacation and couldn't find the thread for a while. Anyways, I'm not real sure how I became a Zag fan. It started back in 1999 when I was in the 8th grade. I've just always had a soft spot for the underdogs. I guess I was always undersized in sports but didn't complain, I just dealt with it. Anyways, my dad and brother went to UNC, but I can't stand UNC's fans, and NC State fans are even worse. Anyways, I'm a senior at East Carolina University and play baseball there. So of course I always cheer for them, but our basketball program has always been awful, as you can imagine it's pretty tough to recruit around here. Anyways, my favorite in state basketball team is probably Duke. I just really like seeing people hustle and play all out all the time. By the way, I have got a pretty loyal Gonzaga fan base going here in Greenville, NC...And since GU doesn't have a football team why not cheer on the Pirates, we have a pretty good tradition with football and just beat Boise State in the Hawaii Bowl.

I spent a summer at UNC and can agree about your thoughts on all the fans. UNC fans can be very ignorant and usually know nothing outside the ACC (one fan thought Gonzaga was in New York) and NC state fans are worse because they know even less and are jealous of UNC and Duke most the time. UNC fans did have an overall appreciation for Gonzaga tho (and were scared before we played them last year), which I am glad to see has extended into other places such as your fan base in Greenville.

P.S. I always liked seeing the pirate bumper stickers, a very nice change from the bland Duke and UNC logos.

Rubbadub
01-30-2008, 07:09 AM
If Gonzaga wants to be considered a major college basketball program and wants to schedule games against major conferences then it has to win them. We lost to an un-ranked down Oklahoma team that won't finish in the top 5 in the Big 12. Just being in a major conference game isn't good enough for me and if you want this team to win a national title then you need to win these games.

As for being a fair weather fan...eat me. I live in the middle of Big 12 country and continue to spread the Gospel of Gonzaga basketball all alone. Are you flying a Gonzaga flag outside of your house in the middle of Burnt Orange and Aggie Maroon? I think not my friends. We have never beaten Bobby Knight and I don't hear the end of that. Our teams have always been better then theirs and they continue to underachieve in games against them. Now we lose to Oklahoma. Need I mention that Stephen F. Austin University beat Oklahoma this year...

If you want to keep getting good recruits from this area like we have been, then you have to win these nationally televised games. Questioning my fanhood is a good responce from your mountain in Spokane. Get out of the mountains and read about a crappy big 12 team that beat your great team that must have just caught a bad break. Give me a break. This was a huge loss that says a lot about this team.

Just an update...Oklahoma IS currently in the top 5 in their conference, has a 15-5 record against a quality schedule (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=201)and has won three straight. They looked pretty good against Okst last night IMO, as well--at any given time there are 6 or 7 guys on that team that can be serious scoring threats.