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CDC84
12-14-2007, 08:51 AM
An informed basketball observer told me that he really likes Rob's upside, but that he is remarkably raw offensively.....almost to the point where he really wonders if he received any proper coaching at the high school level.

This individual told me that Rob could learn a lot by watching game film of Kevin Love in action. As many know, Love is not the tallest of big men, and he is hardly a great athlete or leaper. But what he has down flat are the tricks of the big man's trade.

One of the things that Love does to keep defenders from blocking his shot is whip his elbow into their chest area to knock them off balance before he elevates to put up a shot in the low blocks. Rob should learn to do the same as a physical big man.

Robert also needs to become more adept as using pump fakes to get defenders off balance. He doesn't use pump fakes enough, and when he does, they aren't, as they say in the business, a "great seller." Defenders are simply not getting faked.

The Love reference is relevant in this area: Sacre can do some things to improve his vertical, but he is just never going to be an explosive leaper near the rim. But unlike Love, Rob is a legit 7 footer, and he is a better athlete in other areas, such as moving his feet and running the floor. In other words, he is physically gifted in other areas.

The long and short here is that Sacre doesn't need to be an explosive leaper to keep his shot from being blocked. What he needs is coaching and lots of reps. He needs to work with a staff that's competent at teaching big man skills. He'll get that under GU's staff, who have worked wonders with less physically gifted big men. Rob has shown a real desire to get better as a player as well. It's going to come.

LongIslandZagFan
12-14-2007, 08:59 AM
Just from my observations so far this season... this kid has the potential to be something special down the road. As raw as his game is, he plays hard down low and pulls in the boards. In a year or two he could evolve into a Batista like big.

Ezag
12-14-2007, 09:02 AM
We could only hope Rob becomes as skilled in the post as Batista with some added hops

CDC84
12-14-2007, 09:04 AM
I was going to say that some JP Batista film study would come in handy as well.

Also, others on this board have rightly pointed out that he needs a couple of countermoves to go along with that jump hook.

drnoe
12-14-2007, 09:29 AM
CDC, the reference to Love is good. Love is probably closer to 6'8" and is not, as you noted, a particularly stellar leaper. While I've seen him get swatted a few times, Love does an excellent job of getting quality shots while being surrounded by the defense. He does this by gaining superior position and by using his elbows to make his defenders back off a bit. A lot of it too, is mental...he's simply not intimidated by anybody. Rob would do well to study Love's films. Rob is going to do well because he has the attitude. It will take him some time for his skills to catch up.

ZagDaddy
12-14-2007, 11:19 AM
We could only hope Rob becomes as skilled in the post as Batista with some added hops

I'd be happy if he was half as skilled as JP on the block. We may never see a big man as finely tuned in the fundamentals as Batista or match his "soft" hands.He was a once in a lifetime big man.

MedZag
12-14-2007, 11:35 AM
We could only hope Rob becomes as skilled in the post as Batista with some added hops
I hope so but not likely. Batistia had some of the most refined post moves I've ever seen in D1 ball. And his HANDS, the guy was like a black hole for passes into the post.

Hogan
12-14-2007, 11:38 AM
Is it just me or does anyone else believe Rob is not a legit 7-footer.He just doesn't look that tall to me.More like 6'10 or 6'11.

rennis
12-14-2007, 11:49 AM
I was going to say that some JP Batista film study would come in handy as well.

Also, others on this board have rightly pointed out that he needs a couple of countermoves to go along with that jump hook.


I'm hoping we are all watching a WCC game and watch the "Click" happen. You know what I'm talking about. A game where a freshman or a Sophomore just makes it happen...plays a complete game and helps the team win a tough game. Something clicks, and the game becomes easy for them. I really think that will happen for Sacre this year. We'll need him a lot, especially with the way Kuso has been playing against high level competition. I'm not saying he is going to carry the team or anything, but playing significant minutes without turnovers and efficient offensive production would be awesome.

studying film and working out with the coaches will get him there, it will just take time.

But good point on the counter-move CDC. I've screamed at the TV "BASELINE!" several times this year...that move is there for him (especially on the left side) he just needs to be confident in taking it to his weak side and finishing strong. It will happen!

chirguy
12-14-2007, 11:53 AM
Rob is disciplined defensively and doesn't tend to foul like so may past GU bigs. Also with a little practice that jump hook should be sound. What will really help is having another post to getr some attention.

CDC84
12-14-2007, 12:32 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else believe Rob is not a legit 7-footer.He just doesn't look that tall to me.More like 6'10 or 6'11.


Rob is a legit 7 footer. What he is is the most perfectly proportioned 7 footer you'll ever see. Almost every 7 footer has very long legs, or a very long upper body. On Rob, the bottom half and the upper half are the same. I think this why he "looks" like he isn't a 7 footer on TV, but if you stand next to him, he most certainly is.

surfmonkey89
12-14-2007, 01:24 PM
Given that it's coming from CDC I assume the analysis from the anonymous tipster is spot on.

I'd just add that when I see Sacre play it just seems obvious to me that part of the problem is that he had no one even close to his level in
high school.

He'll be fine; I look forward to the Zag Leap between Fr & So years.

brasszag
12-14-2007, 02:13 PM
What I've noticed is that Sacre still has "teenager" shoulders - he's still not even filled into his natural frame yet. When he gets to full build he's going to be terrifying (at least physically) in the paint. I predict he's going to get called for phantom fouls because guards driving into the lane will just bounce off him like they would a brick wall.

I wish he could spend this upcoming summer working with JP on post moves, and watching tape of Casey to see how to intimidate. If he has the desire to be great, there's nothing in his way.

Reborn
12-14-2007, 02:24 PM
Thank God for Robert. I think more than any of the newcomers, Robert saved our season. When Josh and Gray went down, I know I was really concerned. I knew we had Austin at the wing or the 4, but we were really lacking a post player. Sacre is certainly limited in what he can do by his experience, but imo, the dude has just caught on real fast. He gives us quality minutes in every game and won the St. Joe's game for us. He held his own against UCONN and kind of got schooled by WSU. These were great learning lessons for him. I'm looking forward to seeing him play on Monday because he's had some time to practice, and that is so significant. I feel the same for Austin. The layoff, and extra practice will help him find his shot again.

I think those 5 straight road games, followed up immediately by WSU ( a whole new experience of Rivalry at the DIV I level..needless to say finding out what a top 10 team plays like) really took it's toll on our Freshmen. I think we have another week of practice after next Thursday trip to Oklahoma which will really benefit these guys. I really love our new Zags. I think the best Freshmen class we've ever had, and that's going to pay dividends in March.

jscrk
12-14-2007, 03:47 PM
Question for CDC84; as I recall, Rob Sacre has been on campus since early July. This means that he already has 6 months being coached by the GU basketball coaches. While I know that development takes time, nevertheless, I would have thought that he would have been further along in his development.

CDC84
12-14-2007, 04:11 PM
It takes longer than 6 months. It's not just teaching him the skills....it's Rob doing them over and over, thousands of times in practice and on his own, and applying those skills in real game situations against D-1 big men. It takes time.

Some big men take until they are upperclassmen to start coming into their own. That being said, I think we’ll see Rob make huge strides between his freshman and sophomore years.

Personally, I feel he’s better than I thought he was going to be at this stage. I felt he would be even more raw than he is.

ZagNative
12-14-2007, 04:12 PM
I have a recollection that coaches cannot even be present at off-season workouts, much less do actual coaching, and that, in fact, a violation of that rule was what led to Ronny Thompson's resignation from Ball State. NCAA rules strictly limit the amount of time coaches can spend in hands-on training with student athletes.

tyra
12-14-2007, 05:30 PM
Club ball notwithstanding, an awful lot of bigs coming out of high school simply don't get the kind of quality and repititive coaching and drill they need to develop. A kid like Rob has been playing basketball virtually his entire life being the full-head-above everyone else kid. One doesn't need to fully develop skills in that environment to be highly successful. I like this kid. I see the future and it burns my eyes. He is a legitimate back to the basket athletic 7 footer.

MDABE80
12-14-2007, 07:21 PM
Bigtime athlete's with major raw skills needs lots of training by people who know how to train them. Robert needs to dig in, pay attention to the coaches and likely attend some big man camps.

He has the potential to be the best center at GU in my memory. He has all those tools. Just needs to focus and get his training. Most of our thoughts of uncertainty will be very distant next year by January.

mendiant
12-14-2007, 10:00 PM
All this, and he smiles...

and he has "dirty" Zag hair...

those who saw the interview last Sunday will understand...

Reborn
12-15-2007, 09:38 AM
I do agree that it takes time and lots of repetition to develop new skills and new shots. However, you can learn a new, and difficult shot in one summer if you put in the time. That was my experience. If you don't put in the hours shooting, imo, you will never be a great shooter. All the great ones, are hard core gym rats...that's how it works. Sacre needs to shoot lots and lots, and hit the weight room. IMO he needs to gain 25 #'s to be the great center he can become with dedication. I don't look for him to get a whole lot better by March. He's good enough right now to be the good substitute that he will become. He'll come in and give us quality minutes. Next year, with the summer workouts, he'll give a lot more on offense.

BobZag
12-15-2007, 09:56 AM
Rob is disciplined defensively and doesn't tend to foul like so may past GU bigs. Also with a little practice that jump hook should be sound. What will really help is having another post to getr some attention.

Exactly. Heytvelt will be Rob's favorite player when he returns. Gone will be double-teams and/or the opposition's best big man defender. Sacre "should" flourish when Josh returns.

MickMick
12-15-2007, 10:25 AM
Exactly. Heytvelt will be Rob's favorite player when he returns. Gone will be double-teams and/or the opposition's best big man defender. Sacre "should" flourish when Josh returns.


Agree 100%. Wanting Josh back isn't just about Josh. I'm thinking of Cowgill's written question to Jay Bilas from another thread when he asked Bilas. "How can the return of Josh push the Zags into the top 10?". The answer is that besides his personal contribution, he will make Rob and Austin much better as well.

Reborn
12-15-2007, 10:58 AM
He'll make Pargo even better as well. Right now with Micah and Matt and Pendo beginning to hit there 3's better, the lane is beginning to open up some. However, when Josh returns he'll bring one of the bigs outside with him and that wll really open up the lane. I sincerely hope we get to match up with WSU again in March. I'd love to see Cowgill eat those words.

xjzico
12-16-2007, 01:14 PM
One thing to consider in comparing Batista and Sacre is JP showed up at GU at the age of 23. At this time we might be better served in comparing Sacre to past GU bigs who where 19 while in the program- the likes of Violette, Gourde, Turiaf, Mallon, etc.

On the side, maybe Few should look into finding out just who taught JP to play in the post because no doubt the guy is amazing?