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rennis
12-13-2007, 11:34 AM
I'm sure most of you have seen this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153509

It got me thinking: How prevalent might steroid use be in basketball, and especially in college basketball? I've not seen any reports about it anywhere, or even heard much speculation, but if it happens in the pros, it is bound to happen at least sometimes in the amateurs.

thoughts?

discuss...

deathchina
12-13-2007, 03:06 PM
From what I've heard, the increased need for flexibility (to avoid injuries) and quickness in basketball makes using steroids foolhardy.

I remember reading once how when Jordan decided to bulk up, he would stretch for a FULL HOUR, lift for an hour, and then stretch for another FULL HOUR in order to maintain flexibility and quickness.

rennis
12-13-2007, 04:13 PM
I remember reading once how when Jordan decided to bulk up, he would stretch for a FULL HOUR, lift for an hour, and then stretch for another FULL HOUR in order to maintain flexibility and quickness.


Austin Daye

FuManShoes
12-13-2007, 06:26 PM
It's been intersting to see how many lanky guys in baseball were juicing -- or more accurately, doing HGH -- to recover more quickly from injuries. That, rather than just building muscle mass, seems like it would an advantage sought by any athlete. It also leads me to wonder if a distinction should be made between drugs and if there is a place for substances that aid recuperation without unduly harming the body or mind. Of course, you want competition to be fair, so either all athletes or none at all should have access to something of that nature.

MedZag
12-13-2007, 07:23 PM
It's been intersting to see how many lanky guys in baseball were juicing -- or more accurately, doing HGH -- to recover more quickly from injuries. That, rather than just building muscle mass, seems like it would an advantage sought by any athlete. It also leads me to wonder if a distinction should be made between drugs and if there is a place for substances that aid recuperation without unduly harming the body or mind. Of course, you want competition to be fair, so either all athletes or none at all should have access to something of that nature.

That's an angle that's rarely tackled in the steroid/HGH arguments by the talking heads. Bill Romanowski's admitted to steroid and HGH use, yet analysis of his habits and his self-admitted obsession with staying healthy on the field demonstrate that it was likely through motivation to recuperate from the abuse taken on the field and keep his body operating at peak condition, not to necessarily "bulk up" or "be stronger than the other guys."

HGH has some very useful and not necessarily unhealthy applications for injury recuperation (as well as many medicinal uses beyond athletics). The sad fact is that there simply isn't much known about long term effects of use of HGH, but preliminary results show it lacks a lot of the side effects "linked" to steroid use. There's definitely a potential niche for it to be used by athletes in a responsible manner monitored by a knowledgeable physician. Unfortunately this has been overshadowed by the illicit and irresponsible manner which it has been used by athletes and I doubt such applications could ever be developed for it since its been black marked with steroids because of its history.

HillBillyZag
12-13-2007, 08:59 PM
Lyle Alzado was a great NFL lineman. His family could probably tell you of their late fathers suffering due to steroids. It ain't pretty folks.

MedZag
12-13-2007, 09:11 PM
Lyle Alzado was a great NFL lineman. His family could probably tell you of their late fathers suffering due to steroids. It ain't pretty folks.

Of course. The long term effects of steroid are well represented in the media (though not as proven scientifically, mainly due to lack of ability to ethically study the long term effects).

I was discussing HGH. HGH operates by a completely different mechanism than steroids. Steroids are hydrophobic cholesterol-derived hormones which diffuse evenly throughout the body and readily enter cells. HGH is a protein hormone which operates via a tyrosine kinase receptor with different expression pathways in different tissues. It's demonstrated promising therapeutic effects in certain circumstances, though its system-wide effects aren't well documented or studied yet (for many of the same reasons as steroids).

sittingon50
12-13-2007, 09:33 PM
So MedZag, what is it you do for a living again?:D

MedZag
12-13-2007, 10:29 PM
So MedZag, what is it you do for a living again?:D

Well, I was a philosophy major at GU ;)

Rubbadub
12-13-2007, 10:38 PM
The first person I'd check out if doing an investigation is Joey Dorsey.



I wouldn't be shocked at all.

rennis
12-14-2007, 08:04 AM
The first person I'd check out if doing an investigation is Joey Dorsey.



I wouldn't be shocked at all.


interesting theory. Although, he was pretty darn big coming into college right? I seem to remember him always being a house.

rennis
12-14-2007, 08:05 AM
It's been intersting to see how many lanky guys in baseball were juicing -- or more accurately, doing HGH -- to recover more quickly from injuries. That, rather than just building muscle mass, seems like it would an advantage sought by any athlete. It also leads me to wonder if a distinction should be made between drugs and if there is a place for substances that aid recuperation without unduly harming the body or mind. Of course, you want competition to be fair, so either all athletes or none at all should have access to something of that nature.

yeah, this is what I'm getting at. I don't see steroids having much of a place in bball, unless you're a post player looking to add bulk...but HGH aiding recovery times could be a huge draw for young athletes.

Thanks for your insights MedZag. Good stuff.

HillBillyZag
12-14-2007, 08:11 AM
I know pitcher Paul Bird of my beloved Indians admitted using HGH to aid in recuperation after shoulder surgery. If it only helps speed up the healing process and does not enhance performance I am made to think that other than delayed side effects the (drug?) should be lauded, not criticized? I need more information before I form an opinion and I would guess Bud Selig will have to walk a fine line in most of these cases or he will open Pandora's box. I certainly would like to see the culprits dealt with, but it is going to be hard seperating the wheat from the chaff.

jim77
12-14-2007, 08:40 AM
I bet theres awhole lot more folks doing roids then people think. I don't care if it aids in recovery or not....If a guy does not have a LEGIT prescription it is illegal. Do you think a DR. is gonna give me a HGH prescription for a blown out back from work????? "Take moltrin you old...Bast%% and get back to work" is what he told me to do. Do you know anybody who has been given hgh for a strain or sprain...????? Heck no! Great message were sending our youngsters: "Do drugs or you can't compete" I quit watching MLB just like I quit watching the wwf...BECAUSE THEY ARE FRAUDS! I really like how the owners/players union/commissioner looked the other way while they were stuffing their pockets with bucks. It took congress stepping in to stop the nonsense. I think they should shut MLB down for a year as punishment for stonewalling.....then maybe sanity could return to the game. Hank Aaron is the true home run king. These guys are a disgrace. I grew up playing tee ball all the way through legion ball and loved the game. To see these greedy idiots harpoon themselves while banking millions and swiping records from legit athletes is disgusting. Remember when athletes would trade their wealth and go join the military when their country needed them???? Joe louis,Ted williams,Pat tillman....I'm a 1 sport guy now......DA ZAGS!!!!

Zag79
12-14-2007, 05:41 PM
im glad to see many of the names on that list, especially clemens. ive been preaching for years that i thougth he was juiceing and now im probably right. the fact that barry bonds took all the heat for so long and now it comes out that the rocket (americas love affair) in all likely hood did the same thing is karma to baseball. making one man your goat when you know damn well the other big names did it is wrong. is there an asterik by clemens strike outs now too? ;)

Zagme-totheleft!
12-15-2007, 04:55 AM
im glad to see many of the names on that list, especially clemens. ive been preaching for years that i thougth he was juiceing and now im probably right. the fact that barry bonds took all the heat for so long and now it comes out that the rocket (americas love affair) in all likely hood did the same thing is karma to baseball. making one man your goat when you know damn well the other big names did it is wrong. is there an asterik by clemens strike outs now too? ;)

it only seems fair. but then there is going to be asterisks littering the record books. fair's fair tho.