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NanookZag
11-30-2007, 08:55 AM
Too many posters on this board suffer from maniacal swings; "we are the greatest" to "we suck." I too yell about missed shots, rebounds, and defensive assignments, but then i remind myself that the Zags are kids. They are not robots. They are not perfect. They are not horrible. We are missing 2 of our 6 top players. They are spectacular athletes, but even better persons. Good or bad, I can't wait to see what happens to this team after we are full strength.

El Voce
11-30-2007, 08:57 AM
Well put! This forum has, unfortunately, become almost unreadable as late, with one angst-ridden post after another. It is a game, people! Played by college kids withe lives! Perspective, please, perspective!

former1dog
11-30-2007, 09:00 AM
Nanook,

Posts like yours and Sacto's give me hope that our fan base hasn't become a bunch of chicken little's (the sky is falling!! :().

Thank you!

:D

ZagPants
11-30-2007, 09:03 AM
Too many posters on this board suffer from maniacal swings; "we are the greatest" to "we suck." I too yell about missed shots, rebounds, and defensive assignments, but then i remind myself that the Zags are kids. They are not robots. They are not perfect. They are not horrible. We are missing 2 of our 6 top players. They are spectacular athletes, but even better persons. Good or bad, I can't wait to see what happens to this team after we are full strength.

You are a gentleman and a scholar. Unless you're female. In that case you are a fine young thang and a scholar.

ZagSlug
11-30-2007, 09:15 AM
I haven't posted much lately because of the typical responses of a few people on this board. My ignore button runneth over.

I expect those type of posts during a game thread but not the day after a game. Judging someone based on a small data sample, one or two games, is not scientifically sound. It is also not very good reading but it seems that many people live or die with GU on this board while some appear to be mortally wounded by missed free throws or turnovers.

Road win in a hostile environment with rowdy fans in a small gym just inches away and a hawk flapping without end? I will take that win without complaint.

Lighten up Francis.

http://deadasadoornail.com/deadpeople/1d578da49e38936bc3fa5ce5ca6Warren-Oates.jpg

zagmantis2001
11-30-2007, 09:16 AM
I would expect nothing less from one of the Workland Twins.

Zagaholic
11-30-2007, 09:31 AM
NanookZag, good post.

Also, do you have ties to Fairbanks?

bigblahla
11-30-2007, 09:37 AM
Chicken Hawk? mmmmm?

I'm gonna catch a baby bumble bee
itsy bitsy teensy weensy bumble bee :D

Go !! Zags!!!

208Zag
11-30-2007, 09:43 AM
Well said Nanook.

Last nights game was a great win for the Zags. We played some good basketball at times, both defense and offense. There's always room for improvement but remember we are talking about the 6th game of the season and a really, really tough place to play.

ZaggyStardust
11-30-2007, 09:44 AM
Well put! This forum has, unfortunately, become almost unreadable as late, with one angst-ridden post after another. It is a game, people! Played by college kids withe lives! Perspective, please, perspective!

Well said - I pains me to see that we have become somewhat like Kentucky, or NC, or Kansas.... The manic highs and lows... The meltdowns, the criticisms, the calling for peoples heads... So un-Zag-like!

NanookZag
11-30-2007, 09:48 AM
I do, born and bred in Fairbanks.

Ezag
11-30-2007, 09:49 AM
Well said! Because being a Zag fan and any fan for that matter can be an emotional roller coaster and it is easy to let that rule the roost on a whim. Needless to say, life is more important and sometimes we need a reminder, an alarm clock wake-up so to speak. Thanks

RenoZag
11-30-2007, 12:07 PM
Sports is all about the emotions that come en route to the "W" or the "L."

Some seem to handle it well, others shouldn't get on the ride in the first place.

Great points made above.

Liberal use of the "ignore" feature on this Board is strongly recommended within the basketball forum.

Zagaholic
11-30-2007, 12:20 PM
I do, born and bred in Fairbanks.

I love the people of Fairbanks. Good folks. (Also, the UAF campus is pretty nice compared to UAA's campus, and the UAF museum is neat).

The weather in Fairbanks, err, not so much. ;)

deathchina
11-30-2007, 12:31 PM
I was born and raised in Fairbanks as well.

ZagMan in Philly
11-30-2007, 12:40 PM
The Zags are like my two boys...I love them unconditionally...:)

MickMick
11-30-2007, 02:56 PM
Here is the reality...

Zags are nowhere near the team they were 2-5 years ago. They are much closer to the team they were last year. They will struggle to win the WCC and get a NCAA bid.

Many of us had higher expectations. The reality is that we lower them considerably.

ZaggyStardust
11-30-2007, 03:22 PM
Here is the reality...

Zags are nowhere near the team they were 2-5 years ago. They are much closer to the team they were last year. They will struggle to win the WCC and get a NCAA bid.

Many of us had higher expectations. The reality is that we lower them considerably.

You are entitled to your opinion, and while I have enjoyed your contributions on this board, perhaps you might put your negative posts on a thread that wasn't started to support our team. I truly believe you will be proven wrong and like you said to Kentucky about R Clarke, I will remember and remind you down the road!

UberZagFan
11-30-2007, 03:34 PM
Actually, this team is much, much more talented than any Zag team from 2-5 years ago. Yet, they have not learned how to play as a team as well as those teams did and certainly have not fully grasped Few* & Co.'s system. Time will only tell whether this team "comes together" before March and makes full use of all that talent. With that said, the expectations should still remain higher than a one & done tourney appearance and certainly higher than "struggle to . . . get a NCAA bid."








*Aside: At times it seems that Few has not fully grasped the newfound interest in defense and how that will inevitably affect the offense.

ziggarut
11-30-2007, 04:21 PM
"perhaps you might put your negative posts on a thread that wasn't started to support our team"

I have been reading this post and the prior post site for 2-4 years. Never posted; didn't feel the need since eventually some other knowledgable person writes something exactly like, or very close, to what I was thinking, or what I was going to ask. But I can't keep quiet with posts similar to the one above.

Apparently, unless we unwaveringly agree with every optimistic (and unrealistic) opinion rendered by any anonymous zag fan we can't "support" the zags. That's BS. Just because we can call a spade a spade, or actually CRITIQUE the team that we all love and root for, we are not a 'true' fan.

We can love the zags and still still state an opinion that pargo, as talented as the kid is, is NOT playing well, that he has no perimiter shot, and that his best assets - e.g. game management, passing, driving the defense to create lanes and open looks for others, etc. is NOT up to his own standards, let alone making him a top 10 point guard prospect. AND we can state that without heytvelt, (and let's be honest here - even last year josh was no dominating low post presence and never has been on an every game basis) that we have an inferior inside post game. AND we can opine that daye, as awesome as he will no doubt be someday, is not SO good that he will carry this team past the best teams in the NCAA. AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

I, (as well as my fellow "pessimists" I am sure) still believe that Pargo could be the one of the best point guards this year, that he has supreme athletic ability and can lead us deep into March. We still believe that the zags are one of the best teams top to bottom in the NCAA, that our low post offense will get better and even superior with or withour josh (given time and game experience). We can say all these things and still be die-hard fans.

We don't need dozens of eternal optimists bagging on us and trying to edit our opinions because we dared to write an opinion that might be more concerned and slightly more realistic than yours.

THERE I am done venting on this subject. Back to being a silent reader no matter what @#$%storm this post might start...

ZagDaddy
11-30-2007, 04:44 PM
"perhaps you might put your negative posts on a thread that wasn't started to support our team"

I have been reading this post and the prior post site for 2-4 years. Never posted; didn't feel the need since eventually some other knowledgable person writes something exactly like, or very close, to what I was thinking, or what I was going to ask. But I can't keep quiet with posts similar to the one above.

Apparently, unless we unwaveringly agree with every optimistic (and unrealistic) opinion rendered by any anonymous zag fan we can't "support" the zags. That's BS. Just because we can call a spade a spade, or actually CRITIQUE the team that we all love and root for, we are not a 'true' fan.

We can love the zags and still still state an opinion that pargo, as talented as the kid is, is NOT playing well, that he has no perimiter shot, and that his best assets - e.g. game management, passing, driving the defense to create lanes and open looks for others, etc. is NOT up to his own standards, let alone making him a top 10 point guard prospect. AND we can state that without heytvelt, (and let's be honest here - even last year josh was no dominating low post presence and never has been on an every game basis) that we have an inferior inside post game. AND we can opine that daye, as awesome as he will no doubt be someday, is not SO good that he will carry this team past the best teams in the NCAA. AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

I, (as well as my fellow "pessimists" I am sure) still believe that Pargo could be the one of the best point guards this year, that he has supreme athletic ability and can lead us deep into March. We still believe that the zags are one of the best teams top to bottom in the NCAA, that our low post offense will get better and even superior with or withour josh (given time and game experience). We can say all these things and still be die-hard fans.

We don't need dozens of eternal optimists bagging on us and trying to edit our opinions because we dared to write an opinion that might be more concerned and slightly more realistic than yours.

THERE I am done venting on this subject. Back to being a silent reader no matter what @#$%storm this post might start...

:agreed: What he said and more. Without the willingness to bear different opinions this stops being a dynamic and stimulating message board and degrades into a one dimensional billboard.

ZaggyStardust
11-30-2007, 05:02 PM
Hey Ziggarut:

Did you read my post? I said he was entitled to his opinion. I did not say he shouldn't state his feelings. It's just that there were Numerous critical threads last night on this board and Nanook Zag started a thread with a tone of support and that where the thread continued until Mick Mick decided to hijack it as well with a criticism. All I was suggesting is that he post his criticism on a criticism based thread.

As F1 would say, nuf said!

katman50
11-30-2007, 05:10 PM
Ziggarut, you hit the nail on the head! All I can say, is that I echo your sentiments. Good post!

94zagoldwomanasherdsmen
11-30-2007, 05:13 PM
I agree, and for your first post, I think you can await WOOHOO's greeting with anticipation.

TheBeast
11-30-2007, 05:46 PM
I agree, and for your first post, I think you can await WOOHOO's greeting with anticipation.

I would also like to support the content of Ziggarut's post. I understand the point being made and wholeheartedly agree. It's ok to admit there's things that need to be worked on, and I believe they will be worked on and our beloved team will continue to improve.

Zag up!

MickMick
11-30-2007, 05:53 PM
Hey Ziggarut:

Did you read my post? I said he was entitled to his opinion. I did not say he shouldn't state his feelings. It's just that there were Numerous critical threads last night on this board and Nanook Zag started a thread with a tone of support and that where the thread continued until Mick Mick decided to hijack it as well with a criticism. All I was suggesting is that he post his criticism on a criticism based thread.

As F1 would say, nuf said!

No hijack intended. I thought this thread was about reality. Is it not?

RenoZag
11-30-2007, 07:14 PM
Ziggarut, that's a great first post and I hope we get to see more from you as the season unfolds.

Go Zags.

LongIslandZagFan
11-30-2007, 07:33 PM
I think what Nanook is trying to say is that this board has gotten extremely bipolar. We are either at a peak or a valley and nowhere in between. It is either call for a player to be benched or say he is going to the NBA tomorrow.

Here are a couple cases of this exact syndrome:

Case A: Mr. Pargo

Beginning of the season, outside of Jazz, it was all about how he may be gone after this year... etc. Now with his slow start it is all about he is overrated and will be here all 4 years. Reality is somewhere in between. Some of you look at the last two games and make a judgment about him. But fail to look back at the Stanford and Duke games last year where he dominated for this team. I think a majority of his problems right now are upstairs and not in his ability to play the game. He needs to slow the game down in his head better especially in crunch time.

Case B: Mr. Daye

Everyone had high hopes for him at the start of the season but was an unknown coming in. He is getting as much or more minutes than Adam did his frosh year. Suddenly you get two types of threads... he is a prima dona ball hog or that he isn't getting enough minutes. I'm of the opinion his time is about right. If you think he is scoring now... wait until he has a full grasp of the system and puts on about 10-15 pounds of muscle. Adam was a bit of a ball hog... but boy oh boy what he did when he was hogging the ball.

The reality is somewhere in between. Austin, like most kids like him, probably wants the ball in clutch time. That is just how it is. That doesn't make him a prima dona. You can want the ball and still be a team player. IMHO I haven't seen anything that would lead me to think that he is as bad as he is made out to be. But he is also a frosh and doesn't know the offensive system as well and with the kind of offense the Zags run it can hurt the team at times.

I said it a couple weeks ago and it is still the case for me... this team is not in sync yet and its going to burn us... like TT. I've coached too many years to take a loss and blow it up to be the end of the team. Teams have off days and on those days you sometimes run into teams playing above their heads. It happens and it is no reason to flip out.

But I called it after the UCR game... the seeds of the problems were there. I pointed it out and was attacked by the uber-Pollyannas (sorry uber... just liked the sound of it) and agreed with by the negative Nates and Nancies out there.

I'm rambling... and I haven't even had any scotch yet tonight... point is people that lets all take a collective breath and stop and think before

a) creating a negative thread about a player.
b) responding to item a.

Its OK to be critical... but stop, truly think about it, and dig some facts up to support your points and be open to the other side of the debate.

If you are responding to item a) remember that we are technically all on the same team and that not everyone is here to be a troll or flamer. If you disagree... go out, get facts and make a logical case instead of just coming in an calling the person a hater... etc. Be open to the fact that your favorite player is human and is not infallible.

Go Zags!

ziggarut
11-30-2007, 08:07 PM
thanks for the thoughts (both sides lol). believe me, I am as much, or more, emotional about our zags as any of you. My wife won't even be in the same room as me if the zags are on tv (i am too loud and emotional no matter what is happening in the game). And, hell, i will be re-paying my gonzaga education for the next 99 years or so, which allows me to have a vested interest in our team.

I also want to be able to have a frank, thoughtful discussion (and read other fans' thoughts) and be able to say someone is playing below his ability and talent without half a dozen people jumping down my throat, or the throat of anyone else who has a contrary opinion. And if I am accused of being less than a true fan or stupid, well look out because I can be very acerbic.

On the other hand, if a post shows a complete lack of thought or basic common sense, well - you won't see me complaining if someone points that out (nicely)...

Here's to seeing a Bulldog kick a Huskies arse!!!