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View Full Version : Are the Zags unable to get fired up



BobZag
11-27-2007, 02:59 PM
Why do teams come out flat, uncaring and nonchalant? I'm sure all of us have played competitive, organized sports at some level, be it middle school, high school, etc. How on earth can a team play like they just don't care?

And while you're answering those questions, is it out-of-style for teams to get fired up and spit fire before and during games nowadays, or did that die with Vince Lombardi?

Where's Pendo's leadership? Or Pargo's? I'd like to know something:

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON OUT THERE?

TheBeast
11-27-2007, 03:07 PM
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p277/loupismcw/Apathy20Cartoon20in20color.jpg

Psychozag
11-27-2007, 03:09 PM
I think you would have access to the innerworkings of the team to know for sure, but I have noticed this for sure. The body language for the TT game was really strong (even coming through a 16 inch laptop screen). It looked like they weren't even frustrated about getting their butt kicked. Pride finally kicked in and the got the lead down to a respectable beat-down, but I would have thought Few would have gotten them fired up to beat a team that dashed our NCAA dreams. People talked about Few getting outcoached, but I find it hard to believe that his plan was to have the guards have more TO's than assists. I think how much the team cares to win will become evident in the next two games.

ZigZagSoCal
11-27-2007, 03:13 PM
Great post Bob. I'd like to know too. Is it because we are past our youth and recognized the urgency that life has granted us via time? Perhaps as youngsters, the boys (or young folks in general) feel that time is on their side and therefore take for granted this urgency we, more matured folks, feel.

It still puzzles me and I'm ONLY in my late 30s.

Ezag
11-27-2007, 03:14 PM
Good questions? and it can't be because of the wear and tear of a long season...

I think it could be tied to a lack of a true leader on the floor. I haven't really seen anyone take on that active role at least in the 3 games I have been to this year whether it be Pendo or Pargo. Heck maybe that person is Josh and things will change when he can suit up and step on the court. At least the season still young.

Plus...I haven't seen a good to guy like we have had in the past with Morrison, Turiaf, Dickau, Calvary and so on and on

former1dog
11-27-2007, 03:14 PM
This helped me in understanding the team coming out flat for TT. It rings true in my experience. Recent example outside of Zagdom, Pats vs. Eagles.


Sacto hit on it; as a Coach I know that no matter what sport, no matter how experienced my players/team are, there will always be one game a year that is totally inexplicable. F1, you gotta' know this from Cross Country; you train/eat/sleep properly then show up on a course suited to your strength & you go out & just suck. It happens.
The thing is, how do you respond MENTALLY the next time. I think the Zags responded well against Va. Tech. Hey, there will be more hiccups; lots of inexperienced guys to work into the system, some new roles for some of the holdovers & a couple of pieces still missing due to injury. I think this will be a good season just to let the process work itself out without too much angst.
Others have hit on it; I really think the finished product in March is going to be REALLY good.

JAGzag
11-27-2007, 03:16 PM
My God, Bob! It's like you're reading my mind, I was just going to respond to your earlier post on this issue. How does a team like GU not come out ready to play and win? I can somewhat understand the "upsets" when one team completely overlooks their current opponent. I can't believe that a team like GU comes out with that attitude against the likes of TTU; in other words, it's crap.

I remember in preseason, there was talk about the depth and how that will help "light the fire" for playing time. Fear of losing PT will motivate anyone! If you're not going to play for pride of team or school, how about losing your spot?? If Few is really concerned, take a game like UCONN and bench them all! Start the lower five and then see who's hungry to jump in.

ZagManFan
11-27-2007, 03:26 PM
I say give them the 6 hour energy drinks about 3 hours before gametime. That way if it goes into OT we still should be strong. Either that or give them the 24 oz Monsters. I KNOW they work.

jim77
11-27-2007, 03:43 PM
I just soon as see a team come out on an even keel. Almost business like...why waste perfectly good energy slapping 5's.....when you can expend it hustling for 40 mins. High emotions can cloud one's decision making sometimes. The good one are usually cool as a cucumber.

I just think it was (TT event) a combination of alot of things travel, good team, tough game the night before. I think the team will come out fine against St Joe's and Uconn.

bayzag09
11-27-2007, 03:44 PM
I say give them the 6 hour energy drinks about 3 hours before gametime. That way if it goes into OT we still should be strong. Either that or give them the 24 oz Monsters. I KNOW they work.

worthless

BobZag
11-27-2007, 04:16 PM
As a mere fan, all I ask for is effort. That's it. Play hard, play your best, give your best effort. Win or lose, just give me an effort. It's that simple.

Pendo, I see no fiery leadership, no calming leadership, no nothing in this area ...and ditto for Pargo...after all the "cheap talk" about it.

Hope you're reading.

ZagDaddy
11-27-2007, 04:27 PM
It has been said that a team takes on the personality of its coach. Is that true? If so, what is Few like? Is he a fiery kind of guy?

Now, don't anybody go off the deep end thinking that I am dumping on Few and start questioning my loyalty blah, blah blah. I have no idea what he is like. I'm simply posing the question.

Zagme-totheleft!
11-27-2007, 04:37 PM
As a mere fan, all I ask for is effort. That's it. Play hard, play your best, give your best effort. Win or lose, just give me an effort. It's that simple.

Pendo, I see no fiery leadership, no calming leadership, no nothing in this area ...and ditto for Pargo...after all the "cheap talk" about it.

Hope you're reading.

I dont really see Pendo as a team's leader, nor do I see Pargo as one, yet. But I think we should look to Few to instill some leadership qualities into some of the players. Moreover, I think that we need a defensive leader more than anything else. The best offense is a good defense.

RenoZag
11-27-2007, 05:04 PM
Calling out Pargo and Pendo for lack of leadership ? Lack of effort ?

They're 5 - 1 not 1 - 5. The team stunk it up against Texas Tech but rebounded with a better effort against Va Tech.

What happened to the 'they're a young team, they will have their ups an downs,' etc. ??

If they don't hit the ground running at the opening tip, it's the coaching staff's failure to get THE TEAM ready.

gamagin
11-27-2007, 05:07 PM
the development of a very young team. raw talent. Individuals trying to become teammates under fire.

Trying to establish their identity. Take charge of their turf. Hold onto it. And finish.

It hasn't happened yet. The good news is there is time.

I refuse to get too sweatty until they get into the WCC. Everything leading up to the league is practice. they are going to get plenty of practice. their weaknesses are going to be tested from now on. so they will have to turn them into strengths.

If they keep on learning, getting used to each other and becoming a team that runs 8-10 players deep, we could repeat as WCC champs.

In the meantime, staying healthy, staying in school and growing and maturing is what this is all about.

I believe Pendo is the de facto leader. The veteran with battle scars all can look up to. I have heard from at least two who should know that Pendo is the old bear who has mauled and held onto and fouled and angered the young turks from the getgo at practice.

He did it to get them ready for the battles to come.

I'm thinking when the battles arrive, they will all rely on him for his floor savvy, leadership and guts when it counts.

And if we leave it all on the floor, and still lose, as BZ suggested, well that's the way it goes. And that's life.

ZagMania
11-27-2007, 05:29 PM
The fact that this thread was started by BZ days after a game and not immediately after makes me wonder. Are you just referencing to the Texas Tech game or referencing something else that we do not all know about. Hopefully its just the TT game and its not like players have been dragging it in practice and what not.

Everyone seemed to be referencing that with Pendo & Pargo as captains this wouldn't be a problem this season. I think the jury is still out, not quite gonna start getting to worked up after one loss no matter how ugly it was.

tyra
11-27-2007, 05:33 PM
(As usual). There is only thing an athlete has "control" over and that is effort. The team was MIA versus TT. I have no idea why. The next night was totally different. We have a ways to go but I'm also with CDC or Abe or whomever said early on that the thing to watch with this team is its growth trajectory between now and March. I'm still liking it. But a repeat of the TT game would hurt. A lot.

ZaggyStardust
11-27-2007, 05:44 PM
Again, I have to look to Josh... He seems to be extremely fired up this year and I think that will carry over once he's back in the lineup... Part of his proving his worth. I also read somewhere after the VA Tech game that before that game, he got ahold of Kuso and told him that he needed to get 10 rebounds if the Zags hoped to win... And guess what! I was really glad to hear that!

HRZag
11-27-2007, 05:46 PM
is exactly why I don't watch the NBA.

That is what has made this phenomona so much fun. We did it with effort, not so much talent. Now we have talent. We still need the effort.

Have faith. These kids do have heart. They do have pride. Few and staff do too.

Have faith in their heart. That is why we care.

Go Zags!

jazzdelmar
11-27-2007, 05:53 PM
Leadership is an ephemeral quality....It doesn't show up in the stats......This group is without a leader......It shld be the lead guards, but it doesn't hafta be....BZ, u can want all u want, I'm just not sure there is anything like the leadership we were blessed w from the likes of Matt and DD and Blake....

deathchina
11-27-2007, 06:00 PM
It's a lot easier to understand why NBA players can seem unmotivated at times. Preseason schedule of exhibition games, extensive travel, 82 regular season games, and up to 28 MORE games in the playoffs every year. College kids play a third as many games.

As for GU's effort against TT, I think you have to blame leadership. Pargo and Pendo didn't do anything to MAKE the team focus, play hard, and play smart. It's their job to kick the team's ass if they aren't playing to their potential.

Nevtelen
11-27-2007, 06:05 PM
Talking about team chemistry is like talking about a friend's marriage - you can see the outside signs of things, but not the causes. I'm not ready to call this a rudderless ship yet - there are a lot of new roles and new pieces to put together. This team is taking and will take a while to figure it all out. It wasn't so long ago that Few was marvelling at how well they did against Mt because he hadn't seen any of that in practice...

BobZag
11-27-2007, 06:09 PM
Calling out Pargo and Pendo for lack of leadership ? Lack of effort ?

They're 5 - 1 not 1 - 5. The team stunk it up against Texas Tech but rebounded with a better effort against Va Tech.

What happened to the 'they're a young team, they will have their ups an downs,' etc. ??

If they don't hit the ground running at the opening tip, it's the coaching staff's failure to get THE TEAM ready.

Every team has ups and downs, yes. That's a given. I'm not talking about youth or ups/downs... Nonchalant, uninspired, casual, blaise, minimal effort, those are things Little Leaguers try not to do. Just sayin'.

SunDevilGolfZag
11-27-2007, 06:10 PM
I think we were stymied a little in the TT game, particularly after halftime. It's not like Bobby Knight-- the winningest coach in history-- can't make some meaningful adjustments in the locker room. True, there was also some nonchalance on our part. Sometimes makes me wonder if there's a nutrition issue at halftime -- drinking carbs that make you crash a few minures later? -- I don't know.

kclubfounder
11-27-2007, 06:36 PM
If Texas Tech had played even a remotely difficult game the night before, then I would be much more upset. The fact is that they had a gimmee. They were focused on day 2 and we were focused on day 1. Why did Western Kentucky struggle with Alaska Anchorage? They should have won by at least 30 for goodness sakes - but WK had a war the night before and AA didn't.

If our squad gives a poor emotional effort after a normal break between games OR after a bad game, then let them have it and I will not come to their defense.

Northspokane
11-27-2007, 06:45 PM
6 Turnovers to start the half should never happen ever :mad:

the team needs to step it up period.

and they will:)

dim4sum
11-27-2007, 06:58 PM
I think as the season progresses, we could see leadership emerge from some unlikely sources: Kuso, if he continues to play with the passion he showed against VT; Gurganious, if he brings finishing skills to his intensity; Sacre, who plays with passion anyway and can be an on the court cheerleader.
Also, I'm not asking Few to be a Bobby Knight, he isn't, but he could at least turn the bunson burner up a bit.

zagco
11-27-2007, 11:29 PM
Zagco thinks maybe the answer to this riddle is women. Our players might be spending too much time with the fairer sex. Women weaken legs.

SteelCityZag
11-28-2007, 05:12 AM
If Texas Tech had played even a remotely difficult game the night before, then I would be much more upset. The fact is that they had a gimmee. They were focused on day 2 and we were focused on day 1. Why did Western Kentucky struggle with Alaska Anchorage? They should have won by at least 30 for goodness sakes - but WK had a war the night before and AA didn't.

If our squad gives a poor emotional effort after a normal break between games OR after a bad game, then let them have it and I will not come to their defense.

Sometimes it's difficult to discern between lack of effort and being physically and mentally worn out and outplayed by fresher, veteran players who frankly probably already have physical and experience advantages.

GU did not show their best effort against TT. We got out-hustled, out-shot, out-rebounded, AND out-coached. Every aspect of our game was off, which leads me to believe that there was a team reason for this type of letdown. If there were one or two players who needed being whipped into shape by coaches or team captains who weren't, that would be one thing. But everyone, coaches included, got worked over but good.

TT had a patsy and and extra day to prepare, and a coach who knows a thing or two about preparing a team. Those three things would be difficult to overcome.

Watch the game again. The Zags didn't really start out any flatter than TT did, and there were bursts of good play in both halves. They simply didn't last long enough, which happens when you are fatigued. We held a lead well into the first half before it slipped away, when we were getting outboarded, and went down by 10. Then to start the second half we went six and a half minutes without a bucket, but managed to crawl back into a final loss by the same 10 point margin as the first half.

I say we give these young Zags, their coaches, and their leaders a bit more cushon before proclaiming them "in trouble," say, if lack of leadership is a consistent factor throughout the OOC. As of now, I'm more worried about our inability to run an effective half court set. But that too will come in time.

I think there are way too many factors to boil this all down to lack of leadership.

lothar98zag
11-28-2007, 10:18 AM
If Texas Tech had played even a remotely difficult game the night before, then I would be much more upset. The fact is that they had a gimmee. They were focused on day 2 and we were focused on day 1. Why did Western Kentucky struggle with Alaska Anchorage? They should have won by at least 30 for goodness sakes - but WK had a war the night before and AA didn't.

If our squad gives a poor emotional effort after a normal break between games OR after a bad game, then let them have it and I will not come to their defense.
IMHO, it was more than this, but this certainly played a big role in it.

(I certainly was thinking the same thing during the TT game)

Reborn
11-28-2007, 01:32 PM
BZ. Are you sure you're not on the GU coaching staff? You sound just like a coach....:) I've never seen such fire and passion come out of you. :D Maybe Mark Few needs to let you into the lockeroom at halftime to get the team fired up for the 2nd half.....:mad: I can almost see you, and spit is flying from your mouth all over the team....God, how I hated that as a player.

I honestly believe it is normal for teams to not always get up for every game. It's just the nature of an athlete who gives most of his time to athletics. I never saw any of the games, so I can't honestly reply to their lack of heart. I doubt that that is the reason. My hunch is that they were emotionally and physically worn out for that one (TT). WKU was a huge game for the Zags, a fast pace emotional game. I think more was at stake for that game and the Zags met the challenge of a team who really wanted to knock them off. I heard WKU was also extremely worn out in every way after the Zag defeat and almost got beat by Alaska. That was a BIG GAME...

Texas Tech also had an easy first round game. They werent tired. Knight also had a whole week to prepare for Gonzaga because I doubt that he worried about Alaska that much. The Zags have a target on their back now, and everyone will want to knock them off. The Zags are going to have to get used to that, and that won't be easy.

lt sounds that the teams leaders are also being called out by some posters. I understand that too because sometimes I really question the leadership on this board. I sense a lot of panic on this board and that is not the result of good leadership. What IS there to panic about? Is it as bad as BZ and others see it? I think their glasses are as shaded as mine accept in a much darker color. I don't see reality in these negative postings....I hear panic. I for one am glad the Zags didn't panic after the loss, but rather focused on the next game, and if I heard it right (which I am sure I didn't as I also have rose colored ears) Zags had one of their best games so far. Am I that far off? Am I going to jump on this fear based wagon train.........NOPE. I have not lost any of the hope I had a month ago. None of it. In fact I'm more pumped up then ever. I said before that this is a very good team and it is. I NEVER said that they'd reach the final 4 and not even the Elite 8. I predicted early on that they'd make it to the sweet 16 and I still do. From there it's anyone's guess.........Go Zags!!!

kyle dixon
11-28-2007, 02:20 PM
"Play hard, play smart."

zagfan07
11-28-2007, 02:22 PM
A loss isn't necessarily a bad thing at this point in the season. Although we'd all like to see them win every game, losing one here and there allows the team to refocus and stay humble. The way they responded against VA Tech, as many have stated, shows that this team is not one to just lay down and go away after one disappointing game. The heart's there, it always has been. Players who put on that Zag uniform know what they're representing. Hell, we've even been dubbed "America's Team" before. I'd much rather see us lose a few early in the season and get hot come March than win every game and get beat early in the tournament (St. Joe's in '05). Not worried at all, this Zag team will get better as the season goes along and watch out come tourney time!

MickMick
11-28-2007, 07:24 PM
Zags are going to be humbled a few times this year. All my pre season hopes were founded on the significant improvement of Jeremy Pargo. For the Zags to make any noise, he has to step up big.

I just don't see it happening for the Zags this year. I have my attention turned to Demetri Goodson now....hoping he can live up to the great guard tradition After watching our play from the point guard position, I can only sit through a potentially miserable season and hope for a brighter future.

Reborn
11-28-2007, 07:37 PM
I agree Mick Mick. Jeremy is just not maturing at the point as we had hoped he would. I really didn't see the Virginia Tech game (just listened to it) so it's a little tough to know how good he played. His stats were pretty good, and I like seeing the 13 assists. I hope he keeps that up, and looks to score less. And I think he really needs to work on his outside shot. I wonder what he did all summer long. I see no improvement in his shot, and if anything, it's worse. I am hoping Few begins to address the problems at the point because Honestly, Matt handles the ball much better at the point then Jeremy. And he is a way better passer. Few certainly has his hands full, and I think we are now beginning to understand why Few recruiting so many guards this summer.

Jeremy really needs to take a serious look inside, and see what's going on. He needs to have a serious talk with himself, or maybe Coach Few needs to do that. Or maybe he did. He is going to be a big key. I haven't given up on him, as you seem to have. The season is way too early. The hole that Raivio left at the guard spot, especially his ball handling skills, and 3 pt shoot ability is really beginning to show up. Teams had to respect Derek because of his ability to shoot. No one, as yet, has been able to take that role upon himself. Maybe that's where Gray came in. Few was high on him for sure. Let's not give up until we see what Josh and Gray add to the team.

kclubfounder
11-28-2007, 07:41 PM
Somebody needs to keep all the sharp objects away from Mick. I don't want him to hurt himself if the Zags lose another one anytime soon.

The UCLA game (which I have tried in vain to repress) is the only time I have almost needed therapy. Come on everyone. It is not even December yet.

Zag79
11-28-2007, 08:19 PM
This thread makes me smile. No, laugh is more like it. I have been away for the last 2 games so this post will sum up my reading through ALL the posts and making one long retort. :D We have Jazz saying he misses Blake, the only zag i can remember to do nothing in almost every big game. his 3 pt % has to be the worst in Zag history in march. yes he had his moments and as a whole had a big career but i would like to go farther than he could take us as a leader. then we have reborn talking about pargo needing to look inside himself, not maturing, AND talking UP raivio? ;) My point is the team is trying to figure itself out and that may take some time. The best big man in the country is on our bench. one of the best pg's (yes pargo) in the country is learning to play with what seems to be a whole new squad. micah our 3pt specialist has a hurt hand and is still coming through ok this early and playing above most peoples expectations everywhere else on the court. bouldin cant find his 3, and turns it over more than pargo for time on the court, where are the posts bashing him? i know he will turn it on and be just fine, im just pointing out some facts. and finally, i cna remember many great zag teams losing 1 game in their first 5 and being ready to go when it counted. as far as the energy, i saw the same thing you did. no heart or hustle in the TT game. dont why either. BUT they got it turned around against a game VT team and the rest is history.

TheZagPhish
11-28-2007, 09:23 PM
...bouldin cant find his 3...

6 of 8 in the VT game. If past is prologue, this could be the beginning of a fortuitous streak. Fingers crossed.

ZagsGoZags
11-28-2007, 10:59 PM
only one point

when reborn says

"Honestly, Matt handles the ball much better at the point then Jeremy."

I have to disagree. Jeremy seems like about the best ball handler I can remember seeing in college zag ball

there may be some aspects of that statement which specifically address point guard duties in addition to ball handling, and on those skills Matt may be as good or better. I don't have an opinion on that. Pargo will break a press much more skillfully than Matt, I think.

zagster318
11-28-2007, 11:24 PM
I know that I will get hammered here, but what has the coaching staff done to make this team better? You just don't see efforts like that from a Ben Howland, Bobby Knight, or Rick Pitino coached team. I know Few is an offensive minded coach, but where has that gotten him, at least within the context of advancing in March? Our one Elite Eight appearance was under Monson. Why should we have to rely on Ray G. to bring defensive intensity? Gonzaga is constantly looked at as the A-Rod of college basketball. Looks great during the regular season, but chokes when it matters. Now, we don't even look that great in November! These next three games will tell us a lot about this season. In all likelihood(knock on wood), this team has too much talent not to make the NCAA Tournament. However, the aforementioned games will serve as a harbinger of what one is likely to see in March. After VA Tech losing to a bottom feeder like Penn State, I am even more apprehensive about this team. Hopefully, I'll be proven wrong. :(

sdzag
11-29-2007, 06:54 AM
I think that all Bob is trying to say is that all we need to find is some kids who have a crazy disease and have them call the team from the hospital saying could you just win this one for me tonight, just once. Then like in all movies the team goes out and wins it at the last second for Billy. Or Bobby… Or Cindy… Or insert random child movie character name.

kclubfounder
11-29-2007, 07:04 AM
And that motivational speech should be used in game 2 of the GAS? Huh.

Nevtelen
11-29-2007, 07:14 AM
I know that I will get hammered here, but what has the coaching staff done to make this team better? You just don't see efforts like that from a Ben Howland, Bobby Knight, or Rick Pitino coached team. I know Few is an offensive minded coach, but where has that gotten him, at least within the context of advancing in March? Our one Elite Eight appearance was under Monson. Why should we have to rely on Ray G. to bring defensive intensity? Gonzaga is constantly looked at as the A-Rod of college basketball. Looks great during the regular season, but chokes when it matters. Now, we don't even look that great in November! These next three games will tell us a lot about this season. In all likelihood(knock on wood), this team has too much talent not to make the NCAA Tournament. However, the aforementioned games will serve as a harbinger of what one is likely to see in March. After VA Tech losing to a bottom feeder like Penn State, I am even more apprehensive about this team. Hopefully, I'll be proven wrong. :(

Honestly? It's gotten him in a position to be in March every year. It's gotten several returns to the Sweet 16 and almost guaranteed spots in the tourney every year. How many mid-majors who have 1 good year dream of that year-in and year- out to no avail? I know the coaching staff is everyone's favorite target to bash after a loss or a bad showing, but lets get real here - this team is learning their roles, has probably had ro relearn a lot of offense after Josh was out for sure, and many of them are very young. It's going to take a while to get all the kinks out, I don't care who you are.

cjm720
11-29-2007, 07:51 AM
Pargo's the key to this team. Once he realizes that every play or move he makes shouldn't be made to impress NBA scouts, then everything will fall in to place.

lothar98zag
11-29-2007, 07:54 AM
The rollarcoaster-like mood changes of sports fans throughout the season are very interesting to watch.

Reborn
11-29-2007, 08:22 AM
Let me try to clear something up for Zag79 and maybe ohers. I didn't say Jeremy needs to become more mature. He is mature. I said he needs to mature at the pt guard position. What I mean is that there is a plethora of skills that a pt guard needs to posses. Jeremy posses some, and not others. Pargo is a great one on one player and can be very difficult to contain (one on one). He is also a pretty good post up point guard and is very effective against smaller guards. What he seems to lack is an understanding of when to go one on one and when to penetrate and kick out, or dish inside to the Bigs. I believe that his game against Virginia Tech shows that he can do it, meaning he has the skill, but may lack the vision or understanding to know when to kick out, when to dish, and when to shoot. I didn't intend to say that he isn't learning to do these things, and intending to say that he is not progressing the way I thought and hoped he would. I also said he is not a good 3 pt shooter, and just wondered out loud whether he practiced much this summer on that shot because I've seen many guards improve their shooting with a lot of dedicated practice time.

I like Pargo a lot, and he is my favorite player. I love his passion for the game and his LEADERSHIP. I think he's a great leader. I disagree with other assessments of his leadership and lack of heart. This guy has a huge heart. I also said that I have hope, and have not abandoned the guys. I believe Pargo will improve, and hopefully fast.

zagfan07
11-29-2007, 08:29 AM
The team's only had 5 days off and everyone's getting restless. We need to stop overanalyzing the one poor performance because it's just that; one bad game. What are we going to do for the 9-day breaks over finals week and Christmas? This board's going to explode. Stop going into game relapses, there's another one tonight. Breathe...relax...it'll be ok.

zagster318
11-29-2007, 11:07 AM
Honestly? It's gotten him in a position to be in March every year. It's gotten several returns to the Sweet 16 and almost guaranteed spots in the tourney every year. How many mid-majors who have 1 good year dream of that year-in and year- out to no avail? I know the coaching staff is everyone's favorite target to bash after a loss or a bad showing, but lets get real here - this team is learning their roles, has probably had ro relearn a lot of offense after Josh was out for sure, and many of them are very young.

If Sweet 16 appearances are the ceiling for this program, then so be it. However, a lot of that has to do with Few's recruiting prowess, which no one denies. From that standpoint, we simply overwhelm WCC opponents with superior talent. Also, I don't think people are bashing the coaches for a bad showing. Rather, it's the inability of the coaches to rectify a situation that led to the team's demise in previous years. As an aside, I love how my reputation has gone down because I post something that's not "pro Zag." It's bs.

Zag By the Bay
11-29-2007, 11:36 AM
Based on the past 8 seasons under Coach Few, it appears that the Sweet 16 is the ceiling for GU.
Advancing to the Sweet 16 is a great milestone to achieve because once you get there anything can happen.
That should be our goal each year we get to the Big Dance, eventually we will kick the door down and advance further, but in the meantime getting to the Sweet 16 is tough enought task to accomplish.
Should Zag fans be satisfied with a Sweet 16 season?...Of course we should, but it would be nice every once in awhile to go a little deeper into the tourney and mix in a Final Four every now and then.
That is why we have tough OCC schedules to help us prepare for that magical season when we eventually go deep into the tourney.
One thing is for sure being a Zag fan, especially the past decade, has been a very fun and memorable ride and here's hoping it continues for another 10 years!

Nevtelen
11-29-2007, 12:14 PM
If Sweet 16 appearances are the ceiling for this program, then so be it. However, a lot of that has to do with Few's recruiting prowess, which no one denies. From that standpoint, we simply overwhelm WCC opponents with superior talent. Also, I don't think people are bashing the coaches for a bad showing. Rather, it's the inability of the coaches to rectify a situation that led to the team's demise in previous years. As an aside, I love how my reputation has gone down because I post something that's not "pro Zag." It's bs.

I don't care what program you talk about, there is always the perception that "they could go father". There is always that ceiling (or, if there isn't, then it's because they just don't get to the tourney enough). A lot depends on luck and match-ups once you get to the second weekend. Just because we haven't gotten past the SS under few doesn't mean we won't. Honestly, it's much about perception as anything. If we went to 3 straight EEs, people would be complaining about how we had a "ceiling" in the EE and we would never make a FF. If we won a few consecutive Nat'l Championships, I think people would complain that we couldn't sustain the run... Just my 2 cents. I would obviously like to go farther in the tourney, too, but I'm confident that if we knock on the door enough, it'll happen.

zagster318
11-29-2007, 12:30 PM
I would obviously like to go farther in the tourney, too, but I'm confident that if we knock on the door enough, it'll happen.

I'll drink to that!:cheers:

ZagNative
11-29-2007, 01:23 PM
WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? Why all this negative crap, especially ragging about the tournament? Is there some other program you can latch onto and torture with all this negative drivel? I am the furthest thing from a Pollyanna, as Reborn should attest, but the last few days this board has been painful to read, with all the pissing and moaning after one loss. All of a sudden, nobody's any good, including the coaching staff.

We really don't know much at this point, after all the changes we've been through, but the absence of any actual knowledge sure doesn't mean anybody puts a sock in it. Blab, blab, blab, blab.

Geez! Give it a rest.

Reborn
11-29-2007, 02:11 PM
I agree completely with ZagNative......He's right!!!!!!!!!....:) about not being a Kool-Aid sipper.....:D But he still has good insights, and is a great contributor to this board. He helps me get pumped up!!!!

I AM PUMPED UP FOR THIS ONE FOLKS... Kool-aid or no kool aid. Go Zags!!

former1dog
11-29-2007, 02:19 PM
Reborn,

check your PM.

:)

Reborn
11-29-2007, 02:27 PM
My apologies ZagNative for thinking you are a he.....You're one knowledgable Zag and full of fight. Were you raised by a bunch of brothers?

thebigsmoove
11-29-2007, 02:32 PM
Tehy cant get fired up because unlike in years past we do not have a oncourt motivator. Adam Morrison, Dan Dickau, Even Josh Heytvelt last year were motivators, i think once heytvelt comes back hes going to get everyone fired up, plus Pargo will have a blast playing with him.

Reborn
11-29-2007, 02:43 PM
Nice post thebigmoves...I agree. Josh is intense. I love the look in his eyes during a game. He looks like he could kill.

lawzag
11-29-2007, 02:47 PM
Well said ZN - agree with you whole heartedly. Everyone has had an opportunity to say their peace, now lets move on & send POSITIVE vibes to our guys for tonights game!

ZagNative
11-29-2007, 08:31 PM
Reborn, no need to apologize. I've met a number of women on this board whose gender was unknown to me until I met them face-to-face. This is one place where gender, race, age, and all the other things we use to categorize folks are irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the strength of one's ideas and passion for Zags basketball. If I were sensitive about being referred to as "he," I wouldn't have chosen a gender-neutral name. So feel free any time to say, "Zagnative, you da man!"

Go Zags!