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ZagNut08
11-25-2007, 06:52 PM
11 teams in the top 25 have lost so far this week. It will be interesting to see how the rankings shake out this week.

I would think we would take a big drop, but with 6 teams behind us loosing as well, we may remain in the top 20

Ziggy
11-25-2007, 07:03 PM
My guess is 17-18 in one or both of the polls.

pbriz
11-25-2007, 07:14 PM
im thinking around 20. Texas AM, Butler, and a few others should jump us. Who really cares tho? After the next four games we will really see where we should be ranked.

I think 7-3 or 8-2 after the first ten games. We should keep about the same ranking at 8-2 and fall to around 25 at 7-3.

bulldogshawn
11-25-2007, 08:27 PM
I really don't think it matters where we're ranked, we know we aren't the team we'll be later this season when (if) Josh is healthy. I think his injury during this important stretch of our schedule is going to hurt us badly in the rankings all year (who cares) and more importantly on Selection Sunday (I think we'll lose at least 1 more game before he comes back).

Nevtelen
11-25-2007, 10:01 PM
I really don't think it matters where we're ranked, we know we aren't the team we'll be later this season when (if) Josh is healthy. I think his injury during this important stretch of our schedule is going to hurt us badly in the rankings all year (who cares) and more importantly on Selection Sunday (I think we'll lose at least 1 more game before he comes back).

I wouldn't technically care, but I hate to see the team tumble out of the rankings with almost no chance of getting back in after he returns no matter how well they play - if they win the WCC, well they were supposed it, no ranking necessary. I'm pretty sure there will be at least 2 more losses before Heytvelt gets back (probably more before he gets up to speed, which could be February). In some ways I could care less about rankings, but in other ways (recruiting, prestige, etc) they're important.

GPGUgrad
11-25-2007, 10:11 PM
Rankings keep the Gonzaga name very visible in the ESPN front page.

ZagNative
11-26-2007, 12:26 AM
Of course it matters where we're ranked. It doesn't determine the outcome of the season, and it only reflects the opinions of a select group of coaches or sportswriters, but it makes the difference between how much media attention the program will get all year long, public perceptions of the program, recruiting clout, etc., etc.

Anyway, Gary Parrish's Top 25 + 1 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/polls) has us at 23, down 8 from 15.

JAGzag
11-26-2007, 03:13 AM
First, it's poetic to say rankings don't matter, but they do. They help with recruits, future tv exposure, the works. It always seems that it helps to lose early in week, then pick up a victory before the polls come out - it seems to cushion the blow. I think 18-22 seems about right.

Zagme-totheleft!
11-26-2007, 05:55 AM
I really don't think it matters where we're ranked, we know we aren't the team we'll be later this season when (if) Josh is healthy. I think his injury during this important stretch of our schedule is going to hurt us badly in the rankings all year (who cares) and more importantly on Selection Sunday (I think we'll lose at least 1 more game before he comes back).

Ya I dont think that it matters when it comes down to it. Looking to the future, if we can hopefully take the WCC again, then we'll have another at-large bid, which is, I think, the most important goal this season

JAGzag
11-26-2007, 06:19 AM
Ya I dont think that it matters when it comes down to it. Looking to the future, if we can hopefully take the WCC again, then we'll have another at-large bid, which is, I think, the most important goal this season


We're beyond our highest goal being to win the WCC or simply "make" the tourney. You're missing the bigger picture - to grow and excel year in and year out. You don't just do that by "making" the tourney. Rankings do matter b/c at the very least, it's a reflection on where our team has gone. For example, GU does not get ESPN highlights when they're not ranked. Just one point, sure, but it's one of many.

Ziggy
11-26-2007, 06:22 AM
Ya I dont think that it matters when it comes down to it. Looking to the future, if we can hopefully take the WCC again, then we'll have another at-large bid, which is, I think, the most important goal this season

If we win the WCC its an automatic bid, if we don't win out in conference then we pray for an at-large bid.

jim77
11-26-2007, 07:07 AM
Butler and TT should be ranked ahead of us...Butler is top ten right now.

Zagme-totheleft!
11-26-2007, 07:10 AM
If we win the WCC its an automatic bid, if we don't win out in conference then we pray for an at-large bid.

my apologies, youre absolutely correct

Zagme-totheleft!
11-26-2007, 07:13 AM
We're beyond our highest goal being to win the WCC or simply "make" the tourney. You're missing the bigger picture - to grow and excel year in and year out. You don't just do that by "making" the tourney. Rankings do matter b/c at the very least, it's a reflection on where our team has gone. For example, GU does not get ESPN highlights when they're not ranked. Just one point, sure, but it's one of many.

"to grow and excel year in and year out"? you do that by making the tourney and making an impact, which we havent really done in years. yes, rankings do matter but what matters more is in March

former1dog
11-26-2007, 07:17 AM
"to grow and excel year in and year out"? you do that by making the tourney and making an impact, which we havent really done in years. yes, rankings do matter but what matters more is in March

Que? :confused:

Zagme-totheleft!
11-26-2007, 07:43 AM
Que? :confused:

congrats on 5,000 posts!

former1dog
11-26-2007, 07:49 AM
congrats on 5,000 posts!

Thanks. A monument to being a monumental time waster. :( :D :o

Now, I'm kinda confused by your comments regarding GU impact at the NCAA's?

Rubbadub
11-26-2007, 07:50 AM
"to grow and excel year in and year out"? you do that by making the tourney and making an impact, which we havent really done in years. yes, rankings do matter but what matters more is in March


Que? :confused:

Dios meo!

Ziggy
11-26-2007, 09:27 AM
Gonzaga #19 in ESPN/Coaches poll. St Mary's #29. WSU up to #6.

ZagNut08
11-26-2007, 09:40 AM
http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/ncb/rankings

not updated yet, thanks ziggy

Ziggy
11-26-2007, 09:46 AM
http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/ncb/rankings

looks like we stayed at 14 in the AP poll...rankings there look a bit weird. Florida lost a game and moved into the rankings.

Nope, that's last weeks AP, it comes out a little later than ESPN/Coaches.

7ICoug
11-26-2007, 09:52 AM
nm

former1dog
11-26-2007, 10:40 AM
Parrish of CBS - did a little over compensating and no informed Gael fan thinks we are a top 25 team.... yet, wins over Seton Hall (home) and SDSU (Neutral - Wooden Classic) in the next two weeks, might have most of us starting to believe in lots of votes and edging into the land of 25. It's as far as I am willing to look at this point. Parrish called himself out in his prior article/blog and is now trying to look like the first on the band wagon.

I think the Gaels are a Top 25 team.

Butler Guy
11-26-2007, 11:00 AM
Link (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BKC_T25_COLLEGE_BKB_POLL?SITE=ININS&SECTION=SPORTS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

rennis
11-26-2007, 11:15 AM
#19 in both polls. More than fair. We'll need at least a split this week to maintain a spot in this list. Maybe even 2 Ws.

http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/ncb/rankings

Butler Guy
11-26-2007, 11:22 AM
this garbage!! Butler sits one behind Indiana in both polls!!! :mad:

JAGzag
11-26-2007, 02:58 PM
I think the Gaels are a Top 25 team.

There's no way SMC is a top-25 team, not by a longshot. Sonoma State, Drake, Cal State Bakersfield, Nicholls State, Seton Hall, Tulane, Howard (all at home - 8 of 12 non conference at home)? Oregon was a great win, but that alone does not make a top team. Lets see how they do at Texas and Southern Ill before we include them in the club...

former1dog
11-26-2007, 03:00 PM
Lets see how they do at Texas and Southern Ill before we include them in the club...

Yep. We'll see. Hey, my opinion is seldom correct, but for some silly reason I keep offering them. :D ;)

Zagme-totheleft!
11-27-2007, 04:19 PM
We're beyond our highest goal being to win the WCC or simply "make" the tourney. You're missing the bigger picture - to grow and excel year in and year out. You don't just do that by "making" the tourney. Rankings do matter b/c at the very least, it's a reflection on where our team has gone. For example, GU does not get ESPN highlights when they're not ranked. Just one point, sure, but it's one of many.

Let me clarify..being ranked in the top 25 is great during the entire season, but what if we lose in the first round, it means nothing. nothing. yes, once again i do agree that rankings do matter, but only when it comes to tournament play which is, most likely, every team's goal when March rolls around. As big as a Zag fan I am, after Dickau's sweet 16 season, it has been quite a disappointment since. We have underachieved since then (even our sweet 16 season with Morrison).

JAGzag
11-27-2007, 06:11 PM
Let me clarify..being ranked in the top 25 is great during the entire season, but what if we lose in the first round, it means nothing. nothing. yes, once again i do agree that rankings do matter, but only when it comes to tournament play which is, most likely, every team's goal when March rolls around. As big as a Zag fan I am, after Dickau's sweet 16 season, it has been quite a disappointment since. We have underachieved since then (even our sweet 16 season with Morrison).

You flop more times than a Washington politician! What does this post even mean? You cite a sweet 16 appearance with one player as being more significant than with another player!? Why??? That doesn't even make sense.

Zagme-totheleft!
11-28-2007, 06:43 AM
You flop more times than a Washington politician! What does this post even mean? You cite a sweet 16 appearance with one player as being more significant than with another player!? Why??? That doesn't even make sense.

I am not tryin to say that one of those appearances is better than the other, simply that the Zags have underachieved when tourney time comes. That's all. No need to get all upset.

Rubbadub
11-28-2007, 06:53 AM
How exactly have we underperformed?

12-10 in the NCAA Tournament
14 of those 22 games against better seeded teams.

Zagme-totheleft!
11-28-2007, 07:04 AM
How exactly have we underperformed?

12-10 in the NCAA Tournament
14 of those 22 games against better seeded teams.


Yes, that research shows that we havent faired too terribly but I am referring to the times where we have failed to string some of those wins consecutively.

I did some research myself and we've gone to the Elite 8 once since '95.

Rubbadub
11-28-2007, 07:25 AM
Yes, that research shows that we havent faired too terribly but I am referring to the times where we have failed to string some of those wins consecutively.

I did some research myself and we've gone to the Elite 8 once since '95.

Building up a program from middle of the pack in conference to consistent top 25 status is a lot of work. That's where the Zags are at. Building a program from there to consistent elite 8 is just as much harder. There are only a few programs who take a team to the elite 8 more than once in that 12 year span from '95 through '07. To say the Zags are underachieving by not getting to the elite 8 more during that span...when they didn't even really come on the national scene until '98 is a little bit harsh.

All things considered, it seems the Zags are still rising and will continue with the staff's recruiting ability, tv time and perennial ncaa tournament appearances (not to mention fan support and ever increasing funding).

Did you know that according to Kyle Whelliston (did i spell his name right?) Few refuses to even speak to the ESPN Mid-Major Report? Could you imagine that having happened in 1997? All I'm saying is that your expectations are a little unrealistic if you consider what the Zags have accomplished to be underachieving.

bayzag09
11-28-2007, 07:27 AM
Yes, that research shows that we havent faired too terribly but I am referring to the times where we have failed to string some of those wins consecutively.

I did some research myself and we've gone to the Elite 8 once since '95.

tough research. I guess it all depends what you would consider a disappointment.

Zagme-totheleft!
11-28-2007, 07:31 AM
tough research. I guess it all depends what you would consider a disappointment.

I never said I was disappointed, just think we can perform better. but yes, depends how you look at it

bayzag09
11-28-2007, 07:35 AM
As big as a Zag fan I am, after Dickau's sweet 16 season, it has been quite a disappointment since. We have underachieved since then (even our sweet 16 season with Morrison).

i see the word somewhere in there...do you?

Zagme-totheleft!
11-28-2007, 07:40 AM
Jag, you bring up a good point. We are a new team and have been on the rise the last few years, and with all things considered within those years, we really havent done all that bad. guess that means that we have much more to look forward to in the future, right?

Rubbadub
11-28-2007, 07:43 AM
Jag, you bring up a good point. We are a new team and have been on the rise the last few years, and with all things considered within those years, we really havent done all that bad. guess that means that we have much more to look forward to in the future, right?

Jag?

Zagme-totheleft!
11-28-2007, 07:46 AM
Jag?

oh I am just full of mistakes today! sorry Rub, yours was the good point

Butler Guy
11-28-2007, 07:58 AM
Jag

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/252282~Catherine-Bell-Posters.jpg

Damn, I love me some Catherine Bell. :D

ZagNative
11-28-2007, 08:40 AM
Some numbers from performance at the Dance since 1999, sorted by total wins, of teams that have as many total wins as the Zags:


Team Bids S16 E8 Games Wins
Duke 9 8 3 33 25
Florida 9 4 3 29 22
Michigan State 9 5 5 30 22
Uconn 7 5 4 27 22
Kansas 9 5 4 28 19
Kentucky 9 5 3 26 17
Maryland 7 4 2 23 17
North Carolina 7 3 3 22 16
Arizona 9 4 3 24 15
Illinois 8 4 2 23 15
UCLA 7 5 2 22 15
Texas 9 4 2 22 13
Gonzaga 9 4 1 21 12
Ohio State 6 2 2 18 12
Wisconsin 9 3 2 21 12

Summary: Schools represented in the tourney since 199 (576 total bids): 194
Teams that have more wins at the torney than Gonzaga since 1999: 12
Teams with more Sweet 16 appearances since 1999: 6
Teams that have made the tourney as many times since 1999 (9): 8

(Total bids do not include a couple of play-ins the last couple of years)

All in all, I don't see those numbers as disappointing, though we'd all like to see us go further in the Tourney in future years.