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BobZag
11-25-2007, 04:19 PM
vs Western Kentucky = The Zags played average at best, with the only shining light being how they came back and hit shots/FTs down the stretch.

vs Texas Tech = I cannot remember a more horribly awful effort from a Zags team in my Zag life, with such a no-energy, "who cares" attitude, from the casualness of the players to the outcoached coaches.

vs Va Tech = A good effort against an ACC team that showed that this team does have heart and can rise to Coach Few's challenges and bounce back from a horrawful effort.

In short, as I've pounded away on for weeks, it's going to take these Zags longer than previous teams to gel and play good consistently. Till that time comes, hang on, it's a roller coaster. That said, if WKU gets a big W or two and wins their conference as expected, and if VT can mature, pull off a few upsets and finish mid-pack in the ACC, Gonzaga will have fared okay in the Alaskan tourney. And we'd better hope Bobby Knight ekes out a good year.

zag69
11-25-2007, 04:58 PM
Sorry, but as much as I appreciate a strong RPI, there is no way I can hope for success for Red Sweater.

Thanks for the summary, anyway.

CDC84
11-25-2007, 05:47 PM
What was particularly encouraging was how Kuso and the backcourt guys responded after the Texas Tech disaster. Few issued challenges to all three, and all three delivered big time.

Pargo against Va Tech may have enjoyed his best pure PG game in his Zag career. 13 assists with only 2 turnovers, and he also collected 4 steals. As Fox was saying on the radio, Jeremy just needs to keep things simple and take what the defense gives him. Don't take unnecessary risks. When he keeps it simple, he's really, really good.

I just hope Bouldin has found his stroke and can be consistent from the 3 point line from here on out, but he and Pargo have such a history of being streak shooters that I'm bit skeptical.

Also, after getting outcoached by Red Sweater on Friday night, Few made a tremendous decision to go with the zone throughout most of the VT game. The Hokies with their youth struggled against the zone. But what the zone really accomplished was that it made things simple on the defensive end for the Zags so that the guys could really, really concentrate on the offensive end after all the mistakes and turnovers they made against the Red Raiders.

Scotto
11-25-2007, 05:58 PM
Any reason why Sacre only played 10 minutes against VT? Just because Kuso was having a good game? Or something else.

zagco
11-25-2007, 06:09 PM
Zagco was unable to see any of the GAS games in Boise, but he followed them online. With respect to being outcoached by Texas Tech, it seems to Zagco that that it akin to being outsmarted by Einstein. :)

Zagco's rough draft-esque feeling about the Zags at this point is that the vaunted depth of the squad is really more about being a team that is going to play a lot of players with equal or similar talent than it is about having super-talented players with good chemistry. He worries about chemistry issues, defensive issues, and injuries, the first two of which are concerns that carry over from last year and still seem omnipresent.

BobZag
11-25-2007, 06:10 PM
Any reason why Sacre only played 10 minutes against VT? Just because Kuso was having a good game? Or something else.

Kuso was going off. Nothing more. Rob is coming along nicely but Few knew Kuso was having his way.

FuManShoes
11-25-2007, 06:11 PM
I can't recall what Matt's shot looked like prior to VT game, but he really seemed poised and ready to shoot the second he got the ball in that game. If results are any indication, he seems to shoot much better from a staggered stance. That's what he did vs. VT and looked incredibly comfortable with his shot. I really hope it lasts. This offense needs some balance.

And speaking of poise, Jeremy looked very good against VT. But honestly, I wonder what will happen the next time a good defense keys in on him as Texas Tech did. Will he keep his composure and not try to force things? I think we're going to find out right quick.

CDC84
11-25-2007, 06:25 PM
Any reason why Sacre only played 10 minutes against VT? Just because Kuso was having a good game? Or something else.

The fact that VT couldn't stop Kuso probably played into the decision making. I felt bad for Sacre Friday night. Gonzaga and Kuso were so bad versus Texas Tech that GU ended up running their offense thru Rob, who just doesn't have the experience or the skill set right now to take on that kind of responsibility.

CDC84
11-25-2007, 06:27 PM
Will he keep his composure and not try to force things? I think we're going to find out right quick.

You've got that right. That crackerbox gym at St. Joe's on Thursday night is going to be a challenging game environment. One of the biggest keys to being successful road team is limiting turnovers. I just hope Pargo remembers the lessons he learned from the Texas Tech game.

sullyzag66
11-25-2007, 06:29 PM
Any reason why Sacre only played 10 minutes against VT? Just because Kuso was having a good game? Or something else.
Few was quoted in an AP article (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=273282250), talking about Kuso:

"That's probably the best game he's had at Gonzaga, and that's against some big, athletic frontline guys," said Zags coach Mark Few. "We wanted to ride him as long as we could."

applezag
11-25-2007, 06:37 PM
I didn't see the games, but it seems like Pargo and Bouldin are struggling to understand the importance of their being a steadying influence on the team. I would get frustrated the past four years sometimes with Raivio's lack of creativity and hesitancy to get the ball moving down and around the floor, but one thing he did provide was care of the ball. If Pargo was going nutso we could always have Raivio run the point. But Pargo needs to mature a little bit and become a more steady player, even if it means reigning in some of the stuff that makes him spectacular at times. Smart, athletic defensive teams are simply not going to let him get away with that stuff. It might work against Montana, but not against the folks we really want to be competing with.

I think Pargo needs to approach games kind of like I remember Dickau doing. If other guys are scoring and the offense is manufacturing buckets, go with it. If the team needs you to do a little more, that's when to push it. I remember games when it seemed like Dickau didn't do anything for a half and then just went off in the next. It wasn't because he was playing poorly, other options were just as effective. On this Zag team, there are plenty of other weapons (especially when JH comes back). The guys just need to take what the defense gives them and surely someone will provide the points needed.

ZagMania
11-25-2007, 07:01 PM
I felt bad for Sacre Friday night. Gonzaga and Kuso were so bad versus Texas Tech that GU ended up running their offense thru Rob, who just doesn't have the experience or the skill set right now to take on that kind of responsibility.

Oh man, that was so painful to watch. It felt like every time down the court our guards would force the ball hard into Sacre in the middle. The pass would either result in a turnover or TT would just double Rob quick and cause him to make a turnover.

Not saying Rob is responsible for this, I didn't like the gameplan one bit and think that Sacre will become a dominant force with his size, strength and athletic ability. There are other ways to use the size advantage we have then to just bombard passes into the post and hope for the best which seemed to be our strategy against Texas Tech.

The player I thought did the best in the GAS overall was Micah. He needs to recognize when he needs to take the game over with his offense which I think he can do. Besides his jumper he made several nice moves into the lane with good finishes and passes.

tyra
11-25-2007, 10:32 PM
Obviously, the team bounced back spectacularly against VT but against Texas Tech, there was a real chemistry/leadership issue. Don't know what caused it. Don't know what Few did to get them out of it. But it was real.

NVzag
11-26-2007, 01:29 AM
vs Texas Tech = I cannot remember a more horribly awful effort from a Zags team in my Zag life, with such a no-energy, "who cares" attitude, from the casualness of the players to the outcoached coaches.


In short, as I've pounded away on for weeks, it's going to take these Zags longer than previous teams to gel and play good consistently. Till that time comes, hang on, it's a roller coaster. That said, if WKU gets a big W or two and wins their conference as expected, and if VT can mature, pull off a few upsets and finish mid-pack in the ACC, Gonzaga will have fared okay in the Alaskan tourney. And we'd better hope Bobby Knight ekes out a good year.

Illinois wasn't all that long ago. :p Illinois IMHO was a lot worse.

No reason to panic. Just like they lost a game they shouldn't have lost, they're gonna win a game or two that they shouldn't win.

The kids learned a very valuable lesson...and learned it the hard way. Tech's not as bad as some people seem to think they are, and there's not a whole lot of shame losing to Red Sweater. Since they bounced back well against VA Tech I'll give 'em the free pass on this one.

I'm actually looking very forward to enjoying a team that gets better with each week, rather than another team that comes out blazing, but over time just stays the same, and slogs thru the WCC en route to a disappointing NCAA flame out (last year's team doesn't count, I really was 'just happy to be there').

Birddog
11-26-2007, 05:54 AM
Also, after getting out coached by Red Sweater on Friday night


there's not a whole lot of shame losing to Red Sweater.

Awwww come on fellas, RMK's been wearing a black sweater for several years now. It has an O'rielly's logo on it.

BTW, the man can coach. He's seen it all and he knows how to game plan and adjust. He also is very good at optimizing the talent he has available.

Birddog

former1dog
11-26-2007, 06:00 AM
Illinois wasn't all that long ago. :p Illinois IMHO was a lot worse.

I disagree. Illinois was a national championship caliber team. All due respect, TT is not a national championship caliber team.

Illinois just beat us down. We beat ourselves as much as TT beat us on Friday.

Nevtelen
11-26-2007, 06:19 AM
Illinois wasn't all that long ago. :p Illinois IMHO was a lot worse.

No reason to panic. Just like they lost a game they shouldn't have lost, they're gonna win a game or two that they shouldn't win.

There are games they shouldn't win?!:confused:

former1dog
11-26-2007, 06:32 AM
vs Texas Tech = I cannot remember a more horribly awful effort from a Zags team in my Zag life, with such a no-energy, "who cares" attitude, from the casualness of the players to the outcoached coaches.

Oh, BTW, this is spot on.

The performance by our guys in the TT made me want to :vomit-smiley-007:

The Casey Calvary's and Richie Frahm's and Mark Spink's of the world must have been sorely dissappointed that their legacy was being represented like that. It didn't seem that they even cared, except for Micah and a few others.

I'm going to write that one off to mass temporary insanity or something, but jeeesh 7 out of the first 8 second half possesions result in a turnover!! What the hell? I was thinking, who are these impostors wearing Gonzaga uniforms.

Bygones, I'm over it now.

Maybe. :(

jim77
11-26-2007, 07:03 AM
I was wondering if A flu bug or something was affecting the team. Seriously, I don't think I've ever seen a worse effort BY ANY zag team ever. I do give credit to TT who played great defense and to Mr. Voskiul who personally schooled the 14th ranked team in the country. Its one thing to not have you're shot dropping or a tough foe....its another to lay down. (except Micah and Pendo) My appologies If there was a flu bug. Good thing we didn't play Butler cause it would have been ugly....they are without doubt the best executing team in college basketball. The Butler bulldogs are a final 4 threat.

The team did rebound against VT although they(VT) did not have near the defense that TT did. Good to see ther 3's dropping though. I also think the next few weeks we will find out what this team is all about.

former1dog
11-26-2007, 07:13 AM
Honestly folks, personally I'm always dissapointed if we lose a game, but not necessarily dissapointed in the team. After TT, I was dissapointed in the team, if that makes any sense.

One of my first seasons as a fan of Gonzaga basketball, the team went 8-20. I can't remember ever thinking that that 8-20 team wasn't trying or didn't care. I just mention this example as some perspective. I'm definitely not a fairweather fan and understand the win some lose some thing. I don't understand the lackadaisical, I don't care, blah thing.

NJZag
11-26-2007, 07:38 AM
Seriously, I don't think I've ever seen a worse effort BY ANY zag team ever.

You just made me glad that my local cable/Internet outfit doesn't carry ESPN360. (Listening only gave me 10% of what might be going on.)

Was this worse than the "Lost Dazed & Confused Zags" against Illinois game?

jim77
11-26-2007, 07:40 AM
Honestly folks, personally I'm always dissapointed if we lose a game, but not necessarily dissapointed in the team. After TT, I was dissapointed in the team, if that makes any sense.

One of my first seasons as a fan of Gonzaga basketball, the team went 8-20. I can't remember ever thinking that that 8-20 team wasn't trying or didn't care. I just mention this example as some perspective. I'm definitely not a fairweather fan and understand the win some lose some thing. I don't understand the lackadaisical, I don't care, blah thing.


Agreed 1 dog.

The Memphis game last year was one of the most corageous performances I've ever seen...I've probably watched that game 6 times, what a game it was...effort was 110% in a loss.

FuManShoes
11-26-2007, 07:48 AM
Might I suggest last year's game at Virginia? The Cavs were up 60-26 at half, went on to score 108 and hit 18 three pointers along the way. Eesh ...

http://www.virginiasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17800&ATCLID=1118258

jim77
11-26-2007, 07:48 AM
It was way worse than the illinois game. That Illinois team was probably in the top ten best teams in the last 30 years....and it took a 5 or 6 NBA draft pick NC team to barely beat them. The zags were down 37 and fought like hell to bring it up to 17. I'm glad you didn't see it too....don't watch the replay either....Use you're mulligan for that stroke. I think the team will learn from it and expect them to give Uconn, ST. joe's and Wazzu hell.

CDC84
11-26-2007, 08:05 AM
Awwww come on fellas, RMK's been wearing a black sweater for several years now. It has an O'rielly's logo on it.

He will forever be Red Sweater to the many IU fans and boosters who are convinced he will one day come back to where he truly belongs.

Rubbadub
11-26-2007, 08:09 AM
Which would you prefer, the Dickie V variety of senility or the RMK/Burt Reynolds perpetually agitated, bitter old man kind?

gonzagulous
11-26-2007, 08:33 AM
BTW, the man can coach. He's seen it all and he knows how to game plan and adjust. He also is very good at optimizing the talent he has available.


Didn't get to watch this game but I remember at the end of the tourney game vs. TT, during those game-deciding possessions in the last couple minutes, Few got straight up outcoached.

Sounds like "Red Sweater" came out with a better game plan once again, or maybe just did a better job amping his guys up for the game. Either way, Red Sweater: 2, Few: 0.

Sacto
11-26-2007, 09:06 AM
Games like Texas Tech happen, its how you respond that is more important. They answered the bell against VT. Now lets see if they can keep the ball moving forward against St. Joes and UConn. Despite the meltdowwn against Texas Tech I think they still win that game if they make half of the missed freethrows and don't turn the ball over 7 of the first 8 possessions of the second half. They got defensive stops on six of those possessions. Before we annoint any of the past Zag teams as infallible think Temple 2000 Great 8 tournament, and count one or two of those every year.

Teams that win these early tournaments generally are system teams, either offense or defense, that there opponents have difficulty adjusting to this early, later in the season talent plays a bigger role. We have benfited from this in past years with our offense and zone defense. Now we are younger but much more talented. The question will be, can we learn and make adjustments going forward. If we do, expectation will be met.

Birddog
11-26-2007, 09:26 AM
Pargo's numbers from the GAS

vs WKU: 12 pts, 4 assists, 3 TO's, 4 RBs, 0 Steals
vs TT : 2 pts, 4 assists, 8 TO's, 0 RB's, 0 Steals
vs VT : 10 pts,13 assists 2 TO's, 5 RB's, 4 Steals.

I would have to say that the VT game was a "complete game" for Pargo, and really defines a PG. Those are the kind of numbers that would probably put GU in the winner's column day in and day out.

Birddog

former1dog
11-26-2007, 09:31 AM
Good post and points, Sacto. Thanks for the perspective.

gamagin
11-26-2007, 10:59 AM
when asked to describe the state of the economy in russia using just one word.

"Good," he said.

Then he was asked to describe his country's economy in two words.

"Not good."

Asked to assess our team, in one word, after the GAS, I have to say "good."

In two words . . . .

kitzbuel
11-26-2007, 12:28 PM
Pargo's numbers from the GAS

vs WKU: 12 pts, 4 assists, 3 TO's, 4 RBs, 0 Steals
vs TT : 2 pts, 4 assists, 8 TO's, 0 RB's, 0 Steals
vs VT : 10 pts,13 assists 2 TO's, 5 RB's, 4 Steals.

I would have to say that the VT game was a "complete game" for Pargo, and really defines a PG. Those are the kind of numbers that would probably put GU in the winner's column day in and day out.

Birddog
I think Pargo really needs to concentrate on one thing. TOs. That was obviously something he was told to concentrate on after the TT game and he did so. His goal for every game should be 0 TOs. Don't focus on pts, or other aspects, but eliminate TOs. Sorta like asking a QB to just not make mistakes. All the other aspects of his game will just flow from that and he will do fine.

It is very obvious after these games that more turn overs our guards have, the worse the team does, regardless of if the opponent has lots of TOs or not.

NVzag
11-26-2007, 01:07 PM
I disagree. Illinois was a national championship caliber team. All due respect, TT is not a national championship caliber team.

Illinois just beat us down. We beat ourselves as much as TT beat us on Friday.

Illinois might have been a great team (and they were!)...but the Zags completely mailed it in for that one. What was the margin at half? Thirty-One. 58-27 At the HALF. That team only lost 5 games all year, including it's NCAA loss to (ugh-Texas Tech LoL). That team had Morrison, Batista, Turiaf on it. There was no excuse for that debacle. A loss, yeah, that would be very understandable...but the team just didn't show up for that one.

That year's team had a whole lot more experience than this year's edition. They knew better. This year's team is still figuring this stuff out.

Young teams do dumb things (ESPECIALLY early in the season). This year we have one true Senior, Pendo. Kuso doesn't count since he's a juco (side note: it's a shame we don't get four years to see what he could do w/our coaching staff).

And FWIW, the only good thing about Freshmen is they eventually become Sophs. :D

All IMHO of course.
:)

sittingon50
11-26-2007, 02:55 PM
Sacto hit on it; as a Coach I know that no matter what sport, no matter how experienced my players/team are, there will always be one game a year that is totally inexplicable.
F1, you gotta' know this from Cross Country; you train/eat/sleep properly then show up on a course suited to your strength & you go out & just suck. It happens.
The thing is, how do you respond MENTALLY the next time. I think the Zags responded well against Va. Tech. Hey, there will be more hiccups; lots of inexperienced guys to work into the system, some new roles for some of the holdovers & a couple of pieces still missing due to injury. I think this will be a good season just to let the process work itself out without too much angst.
Others have hit on it; I really think the finished product in March is going to be REALLY good.

former1dog
11-26-2007, 02:57 PM
F1, you gotta' know this from Cross Country; you train/eat/sleep properly then show up on a course suited to your strength & you go out & just suck. It happens.

Tell me about it. :( I've definitely had a few of those along the way, back in the day. Now, every day is one of those days. :D

I've calmed down. Thanks all for the perspective.

zzzjag
11-26-2007, 05:08 PM
The Virginia game was the worst of the recent Zags run for the mentioned reasons.

However, watching the Zags lose in Seattle in the NCAAs to Nevada was a tough pill to swallow as well.

I 'heard' Pargo had the flu or something. If so, the flu was disguised as the point guard for Texas Tech on Defense. Jeremy never initiated the offense inside of the 3 pt line and it was extremely frustrating.

On the other hand, he really stepped up and bounced back against V Tech

zagzilla
11-26-2007, 08:52 PM
[QUOTE=NVzag;112454]Illinois wasn't all that long ago. :p Illinois IMHO was a lot worse.

Illinois was ranked #2 at the time. We knew we were in for a fight. Texas Tech was no Illinois

Zag By the Bay
11-27-2007, 07:03 AM
Pargo's numbers from the GAS

vs WKU: 12 pts, 4 assists, 3 TO's, 4 RBs, 0 Steals
vs TT : 2 pts, 4 assists, 8 TO's, 0 RB's, 0 Steals
vs VT : 10 pts,13 assists 2 TO's, 5 RB's, 4 Steals.

I would have to say that the VT game was a "complete game" for Pargo, and really defines a PG. Those are the kind of numbers that would probably put GU in the winner's column day in and day out.

Birddog

I hope Zag fans are not expecting Pargo to put up 10 pts, 13 assists, 2 TO, 5 Rebounds and 4 steals each game. That is very tall order for any point guard college or pro. If he cuts keep the TO's down between 2-3 per game, the Zags will be just fine.

Birddog
11-27-2007, 08:11 AM
I hope Zag fans are not expecting Pargo to put up 10 pts, 13 assists, 2 TO, 5 Rebounds and 4 steals each game. That is very tall order for any point guard college or pro. If he cuts keep the TO's down between 2-3 per game, the Zags will be just fine.

Good point. I wasn't suggesting that those type numbers (VT game) would, could, or should be expected night after night, and I probably should have said "really defines a SUPER PG performance". I hope I didn't confuse too many with an unreasonable expectation. Like you, I just want to see the assist to TO ratio back in balance.

Birddog