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Section 116
07-08-2020, 06:36 AM
Jim Meehan takes a look at how new ICE guidelines may affect Gonzaga's international student athletes in an interview with Mike Roth from the Wednesday edition of the Spokane Spokesman-Review:

Link: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/jul/07/gonzagas-mike-roth-ice-ruling-causing-lot-of-panic/

ZagsObserver
07-08-2020, 08:15 AM
Terrible. Just terrible.

Mr Vulture
07-08-2020, 08:26 AM
It’s not going to be an issue. These things get worked out, it’s just a new talking point right now.


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kitzbuel
07-08-2020, 08:30 AM
Now, on top of just trying to figure out how to make a season even work this year, coaches and administrators have to protect some of their student athletes from deportation.

RenoZag
07-08-2020, 12:22 PM
GU President Thayne McCulloh weighed in on this topic via his twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/Gonzaga_Prez/status/1280671029539385344

sonuvazag
07-08-2020, 12:26 PM
GU President Thayne McCulloh weighed in on this topic via his twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/Gonzaga_Prez/status/1280671029539385344

Rem approved.
https://i.imgur.com/vbHimvo.png

MDABE80
07-08-2020, 02:22 PM
This is more about China and Chinese students. Hostile countries who train here and then go home with our technology and who knows whatever else they take with them, will be locked out. It's not about our guys.......our kids should be fine, Thane needs to get some information before he tweets. And no, it's not unethical to close the border selectively. I do think the Supremes ruled on that this past year. China, being the source of this pandemic already knows the borders in the US are closed to them since February. Our students from foreign lands should be fine.

ZagNative
07-08-2020, 02:43 PM
Abe, where the hell are you getting that information???? The change in the rules is nothing but an attempt by Trumjp to force universities to hold in-person classes, rather than on-line classes. It has nothing to do with China or hostile countries. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/us/student-visas-coronavirus.html

MDABE80
07-08-2020, 03:01 PM
the Times is a resource for far left libs and often wrong. deliberately wrong. . It's been said several times China is no longer welcome here. More so since they apparently dropped the gift of COVID on the US.. Why would you think Trump cares

basketballzag
07-08-2020, 03:05 PM
Abe, where the hell are you getting that information???? The change in the rules is nothing but an attempt by Trumjp to force universities to hold in-person classes, rather than on-line classes. It has nothing to do with China or hostile countries. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/us/student-visas-coronavirus.html

MDABE80 is correct this is all about targeting China and its Chinese students. The NY Times article is very misleading and to make you feel better there will be workarounds for Gonzaga University so that our players aren't impacted by the new rules.

ZagNative
07-08-2020, 03:18 PM
Find me one article supporting your position that this is "all about targeting China." I've looked, and I find nothing except the fact that it is based on Trump's desire to have universities offer in-person rather than on-line classes.

Man, where do you guys get this stuff???

MDABE80 is correct this is all about targeting China and its Chinese students. The NY Times article is very misleading and to make you feel better there will be workarounds for Gonzaga University so that our players aren't impacted by the new rules.

MDABE80
07-08-2020, 03:29 PM
I wouldn't waste a minute on this. Suit yourself BZ!

kitzbuel
07-08-2020, 03:49 PM
MDABE80 is correct this is all about targeting China and its Chinese students. The NY Times article is very misleading and to make you feel better there will be workarounds for Gonzaga University so that our players aren't impacted by the new rules.

As much as Abe may be right, the US can't just kick out Chinese students. It has to kick out all foreign students or none. It is against the law to target one nationality with expulsion per the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination of which the US is signatory and has ratified.
https://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/CERD.aspx

The International Law Commission of the UN Secretariat prescribed in its 2006 Expulsion of aliens memorandum that:

The collective expulsion or the mass expulsion of aliens may also violate the principle of nondiscrimination and therefore constitute an additional violation of international law or an aggravated
form of the prohibition of collective expulsion or mass expulsion.

https://legal.un.org/ilc/documentation/english/a_cn4_565.pdf

In further clarifying Article 5 of the the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination it specifies that Parties to the Treaty

Ensure that laws concerning deportation or other forms of removal of
non-citizens from the jurisdiction of the State party do not discriminate in
purpose or effect among non-citizens on the basis of race, colour or ethnic
or national origin, and that non-citizens have equal access to effective
remedies, including the right to challenge expulsion orders, and are allowed
effectively to pursue such remedies;

China most certainly would challenge any US attempt to deport Chinese students under these grounds and likely have standing. So to avoid that, the deportation order must be applied against all foreign students.

I would suspect that Dr. McCulloh was made familiar of this information based on my experience with the Political Science and Law faculty at GU.

MDABE80
07-08-2020, 05:41 PM
Except this isn't about race. It's about country of origen. We can close the border to any country or it's citzens. Suremes ruled in Trump's favor after the Dems raised so much hell over the Arabs. I don't think many would argue about shutting down access from China or their students.........not anymore. As far as I can tell Trump closed the borders in late January to the Chinese specifically due to the COVID epidemic.

Our kids who come to play ball do not come from China. We'll be fine.

kitzbuel
07-08-2020, 05:44 PM
Except this isn't about race. It's about country of origen. We can close the border to any country or it's citzens. Suremes ruled in Trump's favor after the Dems raised so much hell over the Arabs. I don't think many would argue about shutting down access from China or their students.........not anymore. As far as I can tell Trump closed the borders in late January to the Chinese specifically due to the COVID epidemic.

Our kids who come to play ball do not come from China. We'll be fine.
You will have to show me the ruling. Not sure I believe an unsupported statement.

Radbooks
07-08-2020, 05:52 PM
Except this isn't about race. It's about country of origen. We can close the border to any country or it's citzens. Suremes ruled in Trump's favor after the Dems raised so much hell over the Arabs. I don't think many would argue about shutting down access from China or their students.........not anymore. As far as I can tell Trump closed the borders in late January to the Chinese specifically due to the COVID epidemic.

Our kids who come to play ball do not come from China. We'll be fine.

Wow... just wow. It wasn't an ARAB ban, it was a ban on people from Muslim countries... at least some of them since for some reason people from Saudi Arabia could still come in.

kitzbuel
07-08-2020, 06:09 PM
Wow... just wow. It wasn't an ARAB ban, it was a ban on people from Muslim countries... at least some of them since for some reason people from Saudi Arabia could still come in.

Correct. A country is allowed to set their own rules and conditions for allowing foreign nationals into the country, but once they are allowed into the country under those conditions, that country need an legal justification (the foreign national must violate the conditions under which that person was allowed in) to expel them. Two entirely different scenarios.

MDABE80
07-08-2020, 10:31 PM
I dunno about that Kitz. IF the fopreign becomes a citizen .yes. Other wise they can be sent to their country of origen....no fuss no muss.

DukeSilver
07-08-2020, 10:39 PM
This is more about China and Chinese students. Hostile countries who train here and then go home with our technology and who knows whatever else they take with them, will be locked out. It's not about our guys.......our kids should be fine, Thane needs to get some information before he tweets. And no, it's not unethical to close the border selectively. I do think the Supremes ruled on that this past year. China, being the source of this pandemic already knows the borders in the US are closed to them since February. Our students from foreign lands should be fine.

Using the misdeeds of the Chinese government to paint all Chinese students as spies of some sort, rather than simply people who are pursuing higher education and opportunity, is ugly and flat-out ignorant. Full stop. Shouldn’t be tolerated on this board, or anywhere else.

MDABE80
07-09-2020, 02:33 AM
Correct. A country is allowed to set their own rules and conditions for allowing foreign nationals into the country, but once they are allowed into the country under those conditions, that country need an legal justification (the foreign national must violate the conditions under which that person was allowed in) to expel them. Two entirely different scenarios.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/26/us/politics/supreme-court-trump-travel-ban.html...........and he also did with China who sent us the gift of COVID. I quoted a flamin liberal site so the libs on the board would be happy.

And this...https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39044403

I took me all of 5 minutes to prove my point. Do your own work...It helps you to confirm the point made.

Again, read the first para of the second link. It's very clear the supremes allow the President ( not just this one) to ban travel from other countries .ie the country itself.

Duke...it's not the BOARD who makes these decisions. Members of the board only quote the opinions. And it's been true that China has stolen important secrets on top of the CLOVID gift.

GonzagasaurusFlex
07-09-2020, 03:26 AM
Using the misdeeds of the Chinese government to paint all Chinese students as spies of some sort, rather than simply people who are pursuing higher education and opportunity, is ugly and flat-out ignorant. Full stop. Shouldn’t be tolerated on this board, or anywhere else.

Thank you DukeSilver and ZN for your efforts to introduce some decency to these posts suggesting Trump’s plan to force schools to open is all just a.o.k. One wonders what such posters would say if Gonzaga currently had a superstar international player from China on the roster: “tough luck kid, you’re out of here cause you come from the wrong country.”

Trump and his supporters recklessly pushed states to reopen prematurely and we are now seeing the results of that poor decision which is ultimately undermining our country’s ability to get out in front of this virus and stop the spread. Repeating the same mistake with forcing schools to reopen prematurely is insanity not leadership. Look at how Europe and pretty much every other country in the world save Brazil are doing a better job protecting their citizenry than we are. Good grief

caduceus
07-09-2020, 03:31 AM
Except this isn't about race. It's about country of origen. We can close the border to any country or it's citzens. Suremes ruled in Trump's favor after the Dems raised so much hell over the Arabs.

Of course they did. I hope you realize that a huge portion of ARABS are Christian, just like you. Half of Lebanon (the Paris of the Middle East). Big percentage of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria, North Africa, and even Israel. Not to mention the expats all over the world that aren't counted because they left due to persecution.

Do you even know what defines an Arab? I'll give you a hint...it's merely language. Speak Arabic? You're an Arab (NOT politics, religion, culture, or any other thing). I've visited many of these countries. You seem to not be aware of this fact. Arab is not a race. It's a collection of societies that only speak the same language. Hello, Eritrea. Learn something about the world outside of your Spokane bubble. You should know then that Iranians are NOT in any way Arabs, because they speak Farsi, not Arabic. The more you know.

Eat some hummus. Mediterranean diets are good for you.

TexasZag
07-09-2020, 04:01 AM
the Times is a resource for far left libs and often wrong. deliberately wrong. . It's been said several times China is no longer welcome here. More so since they apparently dropped the gift of COVID on the US.. Why would you think Trump cares
So even this board has plunged to the seedy depths of partisan BS? Far left libs? (FYI, “far left” should be hyphenated.) China (i.e., Chinese) are no longer welcome here? WTF? And I don’t care that you have over 12,00 posts and are a “Zag for Life”. That’s just plain ugliness. Oh, and while some international students do stick around, do find their way back home after earning an education abroad. That’s not an exclusively Chinese phenomenon.

caduceus
07-09-2020, 04:05 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/4XSc0NkhKJQhW/giphy.gif

sittingon50
07-09-2020, 07:26 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/4XSc0NkhKJQhW/giphy.gif

:roll::lmao:

MDABE80
07-09-2020, 10:04 AM
So even this board has plunged to the seedy depths of partisan BS? Far left libs? (FYI, “far left” should be hyphenated.) China (i.e., Chinese) are no longer welcome here? WTF? And I don’t care that you have over 12,00 posts and are a “Zag for Life”. That’s just plain ugliness. Oh, and while some international students do stick around, do find their way back home after earning an education abroad. That’s not an exclusively Chinese phenomenon.

I think you misunderstood. When I referenced "here", it was the country due to COVID.. Everyone is welcome on the Board. Sorry Iwasn't clearer.

MDABE80
07-09-2020, 10:06 AM
Using the misdeeds of the Chinese government to paint all Chinese students as spies of some sort, rather than simply people who are pursuing higher education and opportunity, is ugly and flat-out ignorant. Full stop. Shouldn’t be tolerated on this board, or anywhere else.

Duke reread. It's the policy of the administration. It's not my policy. I just commented on it.

MDABE80
07-09-2020, 10:08 AM
Of course they did. I hope you realize that a huge portion of ARABS are Christian, just like you. Half of Lebanon (the Paris of the Middle East). Big percentage of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria, North Africa, and even Israel. Not to mention the expats all over the world that aren't counted because they left due to persecution.

Do you even know what defines an Arab? I'll give you a hint...it's merely language. Speak Arabic? You're an Arab (NOT politics, religion, culture, or any other thing). I've visited many of these countries. You seem to not be aware of this fact. Arab is not a race. It's a collection of societies that only speak the same language. Hello, Eritrea. Learn something about the world outside of your Spokane bubble. You should know then that Iranians are NOT in any way Arabs, because they speak Farsi, not Arabic. The more you know.

Eat some hummus. Mediterranean diets are good for you.

Cad you don't think I know what Arab means? I am one. and Christian (catholic). I got it down. I think I understand,

TexasZagFan
07-09-2020, 10:38 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/4XSc0NkhKJQhW/giphy.gif

Seems to me that the geniuses at the Ivy League schools should adopt Gonzaga’s plan. Notice that the ICE restrictions apply to schools that are going entirely online. Why anyone would pay $50K for totally online instruction is baffling to me.

Just as Isoroku Yamamoto took the knowledge he acquired from Harvard back to his home country, so will many of these Chinese students, to do harm to the United States. There has been a concerted effort by the Chinese to acquire our technology for decades. These students come from the elite of China, and have grown up in a completely Communist world. Please consider that when you excoriate others on this board who are not as “woke” or enlightened as you.

TexasZagFan
07-09-2020, 10:40 AM
Cad you don't think I know what Arab means? I am one. and Christian (catholic). I got it down. I think I understand,

Forget it, Abe, they’re on a roll. :lmao:

MDABE80
07-09-2020, 10:56 AM
Forget it, Abe, they’re on a roll. :lmao:

Seems to be the case. Sage advice my friend...........It would be good if the opposing crew understood that Im defining things. I do not necessarily support them.

caduceus
07-09-2020, 11:00 AM
Seems to me that the geniuses at the Ivy League schools should adopt Gonzaga’s plan. Notice that the ICE restrictions apply to schools that are going entirely online. Why anyone would pay $50K for totally online instruction is baffling to me.

Just as Isoroku Yamamoto took the knowledge he acquired from Harvard back to his home country, so will many of these Chinese students, to do harm to the United States. There has been a concerted effort by the Chinese to acquire our technology for decades. These students come from the elite of China, and have grown up in a completely Communist world. Please consider that when you excoriate others on this board who are not as “woke” or enlightened as you.

You're not doing yourself any favors with that response. "I'm not a ______, but....."

Saddening, maddening what we have become. Very much not Christian values. Love thy neighbor, uh, except for the Chinese.

Edit: I know we're all a bit grumpy these days, but can we just not go to these extremes?

MDABE80
07-09-2020, 11:20 AM
Disagree in a friendly way...... Cad. China has repeatedly done some very bad things to the US. I think we can agree that we can be fully Chrisitians but protect our country at the same time...right?? We love the people but not their country or their countey's actions......Does that work?? I hope so......

TexasZag
07-09-2020, 12:45 PM
Trump and his supporters recklessly pushed states to reopen prematurely and we are now seeing the results of that poor decision which is ultimately undermining our country’s ability to get out in front of this virus and stop the spread. Repeating the same mistake with forcing schools to reopen prematurely is insanity not leadership. Look at how Europe and pretty much every other country in the world save Brazil are doing a better job protecting their citizenry than we are. Good grief

Brazil is suffering from the same malaise as the U.S. In fact, he’s known as “Trump of the Tropics”. So not only do we have first-hand experience with this kind of “leadership”, we are seeing it repeated to the same affect, elsewhere.

johno
07-09-2020, 02:30 PM
Perhaps I am misunderstanding what some are stating in their posts on this thread but none of the Spokane area university presidents quoted in this article mention any "work-arounds," or Chinese student targeting. https://www.khq.com/top_story/area-university-presidents-weigh-in-on-ice-rule-affecting-international-students-visa-status/article_a3dedaec-c144-11ea-a8f3-ebec26b202d9.html

sittingon50
07-09-2020, 03:48 PM
With apologies to Lloyd Bridges


"It looks like I picked the wrong week to stop my lithium."

TexasZagFan
07-09-2020, 04:17 PM
With apologies to Lloyd Bridges


"It looks like I picked the wrong week to stop my lithium."

LOL 50, I'm in good shape, just returned from picking up my wine club selection for June...plus I picked up extra bottles of Cab, Cab Franc, and Meritage to continue my fight against Covid.

Good news for Riesling fans...the 2019 vintages from the Mosel River are touted as "the best of this century." As my vacation plans for next week have been demolished due to Covid, I'll be investing in a case from my favorite winemaker in Germany, for less than one or two nights' stay at a decent hotel.

TexasZagFan
07-09-2020, 04:20 PM
Disagree in a friendly way...... Cad. China has repeatedly done some very bad things to the US. I think we can agree that we can be fully Chrisitians but protect our country at the same time...right?? We love the people but not their country or their countey's actions......Does that work?? I hope so......

Well put, Abe.

Students from China have poured millions into the coffers of Ivy League schools, and these universities are merely acting in their own interests.

ETA: Sadly, one thing we won't see on the back of NBA jerseys is "Free Hong Kong". FWIW, my roommate during my freshman year was from Hong Kong, we were definitely the "Odd Couple": he was from an uber-wealthy family, and I was the middle class kid on an ROTC scholarship. His parents were very nice...they stopped in Spokane for a few days, on their way to Switzerland to visit his brother at this boarding school.

kitzbuel
07-09-2020, 04:44 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/26/us/politics/supreme-court-trump-travel-ban.html...........and he also did with China who sent us the gift of COVID. I quoted a flamin liberal site so the libs on the board would be happy.

And this...https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39044403

I took me all of 5 minutes to prove my point. Do your own work...It helps you to confirm the point made.

Again, read the first para of the second link. It's very clear the supremes allow the President ( not just this one) to ban travel from other countries .ie the country itself.

Duke...it's not the BOARD who makes these decisions. Members of the board only quote the opinions. And it's been true that China has stolen important secrets on top of the CLOVID gift.

Abe You are wrong.

You are conflating the right to control entry into a country with expulsion which is leaving.

Entering and leaving are two different things.


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RenoZag
07-09-2020, 05:45 PM
The University of Southern California just announced they will let international students add an in-person class for FREE to keep their Visa status.