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Zags_Fanatic
08-09-2019, 09:17 AM
Fascinating list from KenPom trying to rank all 351 basketball programs. Gonzaga coming in at #12 is one of the great stories in sports history considering the fact that before 1999 they had 1 NCAA appearance and had never been ranked. Since 1999 they have 34 tourney wins and have been ranked 253 times. Unreal.

Hardest one on the list to justify is Texas at #10 but otherwise this list seems pretty solid.

https://kenpom.com/programs.php

mgadfly
08-09-2019, 09:53 AM
I wonder where GU would be if we took out 97 (our worst year, #150) and 98?

jazzdelmar
08-09-2019, 11:12 AM
I would guess GU's relative rank goes up as the years progress from '99. Well in the top 10 now, arguably a tad higher.

ZagsObserver
08-09-2019, 12:49 PM
Where is St Mary’s on that list?

soccerdud
08-09-2019, 01:02 PM
Where is St Mary’s on that list?

76. remember, they were _dreadful_ before bennett. we get penalized for '97-98, but they have 5 years under dave bollwinkle during that time period. ouch.

jazzdelmar
08-09-2019, 02:05 PM
Applying the NCAA’s March madness categorization, the Zags are an Elite 8 program IMO.

ZagNative
08-09-2019, 02:43 PM
Ken Pomeroy is an amazing resource! I hope he makes lots of money from the services he provides.

Reborn
08-09-2019, 04:49 PM
I remember the days here on this board, Jazz when I would argue relentlessly that Gonzaga was an elite team. I recall so well, how many members here hated that word ELITE and when it was applied as a description for the Zags, I felt like they wanted to take my head off. I will always remember those early days here on GUBoards and how beautiful they were as we slowly progress from the "Little Train That Could," to a stream liner that could roll all over you at any given moment. I am glad I am one of the lucky ones who have shared this journey with so many of you. It's been quite a ride. And I do believe it's safe now to say that Gonzaga is an Elite Basketball program, and I'm glad I lived long enough to see it.

TexasZagFan
08-09-2019, 05:03 PM
I remember the days here on this board, Jazz when I would argue relentlessly that Gonzaga was an elite team. I recall so well, how many members here hated that word ELITE and when it was applied as a description for the Zags, I felt like they wanted to take my head off. I will always remember those early days here on GUBoards and how beautiful they were as we slowly progress from the "Little Train That Could," to a stream liner that could roll all over you at any given moment. I am glad I am one of the lucky ones who have shared this journey with so many of you. It's been quite a ride. And I do believe it's safe now to say that Gonzaga is an Elite Basketball program, and I'm glad I lived long enough to see it.

All we have to do now is live long enough to see our Zags win a National Championship.

MickMick
08-11-2019, 09:26 AM
I remember the days here on this board, Jazz when I would argue relentlessly that Gonzaga was an elite team. I recall so well, how many members here hated that word ELITE and when it was applied as a description for the Zags, I felt like they wanted to take my head off. I will always remember those early days here on GUBoards and how beautiful they were as we slowly progress from the "Little Train That Could," to a stream liner that could roll all over you at any given moment. I am glad I am one of the lucky ones who have shared this journey with so many of you. It's been quite a ride. And I do believe it's safe now to say that Gonzaga is an Elite Basketball program, and I'm glad I lived long enough to see it.

It has been a great ride Reborn. GU is an elite program now. They have reached a phase where the best players are simply too good to stay for more than a couple of years. The staff is in a near constant reloading mode now and not only are they sustaining success, but the recruiting has actually improved over time. The recent recruiting classes have never been more highly regarded. The grad transfers are usually some of the best available at their respective positions. But the biggest single factor is that recruits are ranked on potential and it is the player development that is so often overlooked. Few and his staff are turning players into pros and that has been huge when it comes to bringing in players.

Reborn
08-11-2019, 09:55 AM
It has been a great ride Reborn. GU is an elite program now. They have reached a phase where the best players are simply too good to stay for more than a couple of years. The staff is in a near constant reloading mode now and not only are they sustaining success, but the recruiting has actually improved over time. The recent recruiting classes have never been more highly regarded. The grad transfers are usually some of the best available at their respective positions. But the biggest single factor is that recruits are ranked on potential and it is the player development that is so often overlooked. Few and his staff are turning players into pros and that has been huge when it comes to bringing in players.

Really good post, Mick Mick.

DixieZag
08-11-2019, 10:21 AM
It has been a great ride Reborn. GU is an elite program now. They have reached a phase where the best players are simply too good to stay for more than a couple of years. The staff is in a near constant reloading mode now and not only are they sustaining success, but the recruiting has actually improved over time. The recent recruiting classes have never been more highly regarded. The grad transfers are usually some of the best available at their respective positions. But the biggest single factor is that recruits are ranked on potential and it is the player development that is so often overlooked. Few and his staff are turning players into pros and that has been huge when it comes to bringing in players.

Awesome.

Glad you mentioned transfers.

Cal, UW, Texas A&M, Missouri, USC

The fact that players are coming from unbelievably rich and huge athletic departments to come learn basketball and win at GU says just about it all.

In terms of grad transfers, Brian Wesley set a standard n and off the court that is near impossible to maintain, yet every year they're close.

Markburn1
08-11-2019, 10:43 AM
Gonzaga has come a long way. All of us have enjoyed the progress of the program. Still, to be considered elite, don't you have to win something? And more than once?

I guess it depends on one's definition of elite. For me, they are close but not quite there yet.

Bogozags
08-11-2019, 01:05 PM
Gonzaga has come a long way. All of us have enjoyed the progress of the program. Still, to be considered elite, don't you have to win something? And more than once?

I guess it depends on one's definition of elite. For me, they are close but not quite there yet.

When a discussion about Elite Programs surfaces, I think of the following 12 schools: Duke, UNC, Syracuse, UVA, MSU, UA, KU, Vilanova, UK and UF, where each of these schools has won at least one Men's NCAA Basketball Championship in the last 20 years and have remained relevant.

GU is an extremely good basketball school but I don't see us as elite, even though we have been to the EE four times and the NC game. When we win the NC THEN I would use the word ELITE to describe our program.

jazzdelmar
08-11-2019, 02:32 PM
I would find a place for UCONN. UVA out. Cuse is there on fumes. No Louisville?



When a discussion about Elite Programs surfaces, I think of the following 12 schools: Duke, UNC, Syracuse, UVA, MSU, UA, KU, Vilanova, UK and UF, where each of these schools has won at least one Men's NCAA Basketball Championship in the last 20 years and have remained relevant.

GU is an extremely good basketball school but I don't see us as elite, even though we have been to the EE four times and the NC game. When we win the NC THEN I would use the word ELITE to describe our program.

kitzbuel
08-11-2019, 03:07 PM
I would find a place for UCONN. UVA out. Cuse is there on fumes. No Louisville?UVa is behind GU. Granted their title last year, but they still rank well behind Tobacco Road.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

Bogozags
08-12-2019, 01:20 PM
I would find a place for UCONN. UVA out. Cuse is there on fumes. No Louisville?

UConn has only been to one NCAA tournament in the last five years...granted they have won three titles this century but have not been relevant recently, which is why I didn't put them in the same status as UVA. UL could well be considered Elite had it not been for cheating. They had to forfeit their 2013 title and sat out the Dance in 2016 and then were involved in the Pay-for-Play scandal. Their recent success is based upon cheating IMO...

At least we agree that GU is not an Elite program at this time.

Radbooks
08-12-2019, 03:05 PM
Here's an article on CBS sports about the rankings:

The 13 most debatable and surprising teams in Ken Pomeroy's ranking of all 353 college basketball programs
(https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/the-13-most-debatable-and-surprising-teams-in-ken-pomeroys-ranking-of-all-353-college-basketball-programs/)

There is a section about Gonzaga:


KenPom program ranking: No. 12

When Pomeroy shared his rankings, before I clicked, there were two schools in particular that I was most curious to see where they landed. Gonzaga was one of them, UConn the other. We'll get to the Huskies in a minute. These rankings almost align perfectly with the rise and sustained prowess of the Gonzaga program, which has made every NCAA Tournament since 1999. The Bulldogs unquestionably feel like a top-15 school in the past two decades. What's all the more impressive is how Gonzaga managed to make it to 12th despite not being in a power conference, which to Pomeroy's own admission held the program back just a little. This is all the more reason why Mark Few should eventually be inducted into the Naismith Memorial Hall of Fame.

jazzdelmar
08-13-2019, 03:52 AM
UConn has only been to one NCAA tournament in the last five years...granted they have won three titles this century but have not been relevant recently, which is why I didn't put them in the same status as UVA. UL could well be considered Elite had it not been for cheating. They had to forfeit their 2013 title and sat out the Dance in 2016 and then were involved in the Pay-for-Play scandal. Their recent success is based upon cheating IMO...

At least we agree that GU is not an Elite program at this time.

Your parameter was 20 years. I think Hurley will get them back now that they are in the BE again. We sort of agree. I used the March Madness index and have GU as an Elite 8 program. But there are probably 10-12 such programs......:). For comparison sake, Dook, UNC, KU, UK, et al are F4 programs, though not there every year.

DixieZag
08-13-2019, 05:24 AM
RE: Hall of Fame

20 straight NCAA appearances (and no reason to see it ending any time soon), all under one coach? A final from a "mid-major conference" - that alone ought to clear the bar with safety jump first attempt.

Few WILL be in the Hall of Fame. And he will richly deserve it. To be honest, I think he has too much intellectual curiosity to continue doing this for 40 years, and once the kids finish high school may take over the Portland Trailblazers for a bit, or may host the greatest fly-fishing show ever, may just specialize in reading to grandkids, dunno, but it'll likely be different, and he'll have to stop by the Hall of Fame on the way.

JPtheBeasta
08-13-2019, 05:37 AM
Gonzaga has come a long way. All of us have enjoyed the progress of the program. Still, to be considered elite, don't you have to win something? And more than once?

I guess it depends on one's definition of elite. For me, they are close but not quite there yet.

For the sake of discussion, who is more elite right now, Gonzaga or UCLA?

jazzdelmar
08-13-2019, 06:41 AM
For the sake of discussion, who is more elite right now, Gonzaga or UCLA?

Tho they've not done much lately, UCLA is special. All time, arguably the best or top 3 (Kentucky, UNC, maybe Dook).....surely not Elite this moment, I would put them in the S16 bracket......looking for another Sam Gilbert, that'd help.

DixieZag
08-13-2019, 08:57 AM
Tho they've not done much lately, UCLA is special. All time, arguably the best or top 3 (Kentucky, UNC, maybe Dook).....surely not Elite this moment, I would put them in the S16 bracket......looking for another Sam Gilbert, that'd help.

They are terrible right now. But they are one of the very few that can go from terrible to Final four in 2 seasons.

The times I have walked the Brentwood campus I half wondered how any recruit ever chose anything else.

jazzdelmar
08-13-2019, 09:12 AM
They are terrible right now. But they are one of the very few that can go from terrible to Final four in 2 seasons.

The times I have walked the Brentwood campus I half wondered how any recruit ever chose anything else.

Though not as grand, USD’s campus is just a nice. Bite size. So, go figure

ZagNative
08-15-2019, 12:34 PM
I enjoyed Gary Parrish Podcast which discusses the KenPom rankings at the 34:00 mark. Click on the bar about 3/4 of the way through: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/cbssportscom-eye-on-college-basketball-podcast/e/63242540?autoplay=true