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ZagNut08
11-09-2007, 05:39 PM
If josh's injury does not heal soon, or gets worse, what changes do you think the coaches would make. Do you think they would pull off will's redshirt?

BobZag
11-09-2007, 05:50 PM
Possibly--no, probably. Few tends to be quick on the redshirt trigger. But I'd look for lots more Daye.

Gunzawguh
11-09-2007, 05:50 PM
Interesting.......

BobZag
11-09-2007, 06:10 PM
There's a reason why ZN08 asks this question. Josh probably broke his foot vs Emporia St., the foot with the stress reaction. The last thing his father told me was, "I hope they don't rush him back into this exhibition game because that's what they did two years ago and it aggravated it."

Well, guess what?

ZaggyStardust
11-09-2007, 06:20 PM
BROKE IT??? You've got to be freaking kidding right, Bob?

harryzag
11-09-2007, 06:24 PM
One of the tennis players confirmed it. I really don't want to believe it but he did break his foot. However, I don't know how serious the break is.

GonzagaGurl08
11-09-2007, 06:27 PM
This is not what we need. He only played 5 mins last night, and he was walking fine. When did it happen. Does anyone know the extent of this injury or how long he will be out?

primal23
11-09-2007, 06:28 PM
Not a good way to start the season :eek:

FuManShoes
11-09-2007, 06:32 PM
I really hope BobZag is wrong, and Josh's father's comment is nothing more than a frustrated overreaction to his son's lingering stress reaction. If Josh did, in fact, break his foot (again), you have wonder about the medical advice being dispensed and followed at GU. These kinds of injuries are getting really old ...

JAGzag
11-09-2007, 06:41 PM
How the hell do you break a foot simply by running on it?? It wasn't a traumatic injury, right? So, did it just fall apart from the previous injury?? Seriously, why the hell was he even playing against Emporia St??!!

KSTATEZAG
11-09-2007, 06:44 PM
How the hell do you break a foot simply by running on it?? It wasn't a traumatic injury, right? So, did it just fall apart from the previous injury?? Seriously, why the hell was he even playing against Emporia St??!!

I swear through his entire career we'll never see Josh for an entire season...
really a shame.

MDABE80
11-09-2007, 06:48 PM
"Josh probably broke his foot vs Emporia St., the foot with the stress reaction. "....."probably" means what exactly? CT or any imaging confirmation? It's quite a thing to say without some confirmatory information. Why? Because this one statement has significant implications for a college career not to mention beyond. BZ doesn't say things he doesn't know about. Confirmatory imaging is essential and critical. It's a BIG deal if true.

Nevtelen
11-09-2007, 06:50 PM
...

I'm not sure how to find the words for how crappy that is. Not that we don't have some talent, but without some proven inside talent this could be a looooooonnnnng season...

Gunzawguh
11-09-2007, 06:50 PM
Josh has a fracture in his foot. His projected return is a month or so.

KSTATEZAG
11-09-2007, 06:52 PM
a month...must not require cutting.

primal23
11-09-2007, 06:52 PM
Boy it would have been nice to have him for the WSU game :(

JAGzag
11-09-2007, 06:54 PM
If this is true, and I certainly don't doubt the credibility of you all, I hope someone will watch his back to make sure all this "down time" doesn't turn him away from his focus. IE, make sure he's still on the same page as the team ...

Nevtelen
11-09-2007, 06:55 PM
Even if he gets back in December, he'll still by rusty and out of shape from all the time he hasn't been able to play/do conditioning. We won't see the "normal" Josh back until mid-Jan is my guess. That's IF there aren't more complications, etc. Hopefully he'll be 100% for Memphis. Man, that sucks. :(

MacZag
11-09-2007, 06:57 PM
I'm just wondering about the possibility of a month. I hope this isn't a long standing problem with continued sequelae.....wasn't this the same foot as previously injured. I also wonder about the imaging studies....bone scan, MRI, CT....and a month for return..Is that realistic? This stinks....getting reinstated to team and then this.....:confused:

GonzagaGurl08
11-09-2007, 06:57 PM
A fracture is different from a break. If he'll only be out for a month, my guess is that he will be wearing a boot.

Baldwinzag
11-09-2007, 06:58 PM
I really hope BobZag is wrong, and Josh's father's comment is nothing more than a frustrated overreaction to his son's lingering stress reaction. If Josh did, in fact, break his foot (again), you have wonder about the medical advice being dispensed and followed at GU. These kinds of injuries are getting really old ...

Agreed. I'm not an athletic trainer, yet allowing Josh to play in an EXHIBITION game was ridiculous and very unnecessary, IMO. As everyone knows, a stress reaction is notorious for becoming a stress fracture when not rested long enough, just ask Micah last yr. According to pre-game reports, the only action Josh had seen prior to gametime was a few minutes in a 5-on-5 practice scrimmage. And to make matters worse, Josh was stated as still experiencing discomfort near his ankle two days before tip-off. What in the world were the trainers thinking? If confirmed, this could have been avoided...:(

applezag
11-09-2007, 07:00 PM
Okay, first the long preface: I generally trust the opinion of the doctors and the coaching staff over my own in these matters. If they determine that the best course of action for a player is to play, even if it's Emporia St., then they are much more qualified than I am to make that decision. And as much as I love the Zags, the coaching staff has much more on the line than I do by this guy going out and playing on an injured foot. And it is really easy for me to question a decision to play a player AFTER he gets injured in it.

All that being said, what is there really to gain for Josh by playing in this game? If there was any risk at all, I don't really understand why he would be in there. I'm sure the thinking was probably that he hadn't played in a real game for a long time and it would be good to shake off some of the rust, but I have to think this might be a decision the staff regrets.

MacZag
11-09-2007, 07:03 PM
Fracture vs. break....bottom line it is an interruption in the regular bony structure and really impacts mobility.....If it truly is a fracture is a month going to be long enough.....

MedZag
11-09-2007, 07:11 PM
How the hell do you break a foot simply by running on it??

The nature of a stress fracture is that it is a weakening in the bone due to either a trauma or, more often, repetitive use. A stress fracture is basically a mini broken bone (think sprained ligament=stress fracture, torn ligament=broken bone). Thus, use on a stress fracture can not only aggravate/worsen the stress fracture, but is also a weak point in the bone for potential breaks.

Here's hoping he just worsened his stress fracture. Healing broken bones in your feet is a... well, pick your favorite swear word. Its the furthest point from your body, and thus the furthest point from all the goodies that help your bones heal.

If its still a stress fracture he'll be good with rest. The bone maintains its integrity with a stress fracture. But if it became a full fracture he'll be non-weight bearing for 4-6 weeks then probably another couple weeks of rehab after that.

I'd also be curious what bone he's having trouble with. That has a lot of pertinance to his rehab (i.e. you can function just fine with a less than healed 2nd-4th metatarsal (and sometimes 5th) but if its your calcaneous, talus, 1st metatarsal, etc its a much slower process since those bones function greatly in ankle movement and weight bearing.

MickMick
11-09-2007, 07:13 PM
This will give the NBA a perception that Josh is fragile. Other more durable players will begin to slide in front of him. His slim hope of going in the lottery are probably dashed. If there is a silver lining, an adviser might recommend for Josh to regain the confidence of the draft wizards by playing his senior year for the Zags.

MacZag
11-09-2007, 07:14 PM
That is kind of what I thought. Let's hope (and pray) it's some type of stress thing that is not a true fracture.....

zag67
11-09-2007, 07:31 PM
The key to this season is league, the conference tournament and then the post season. Therefore what ever they do hopefully it will not be to early. 4 weeks is December 5th. If instead they wait until the 29th, he only misses 4 more games and gets the additional rest of 3 1/2 more weeks. There are no games between the 20th and the 29th. That gives him 3 games to start working back into game shape before we hit conference play. This also gives the younger players more playing time and therefore will be better for league and after. Yes, this might mean we lose 1 or 2 more games, but it also might mean that we are better prepared for a better run in March.
Again, this is just my opinion.

Snagglezag
11-09-2007, 07:45 PM
I like this outlook Zag67. It is really a smart, sane perspective. Potentially, this could make our team stronger and truly prove our strength--depth. We have the best recruiting class in the history of the program and it couldn't have come a better time/year. Let's hope for a clean and COMPLETE recovery for Josh and Matt.

RenoZag
11-09-2007, 07:54 PM
This will give the NBA a perception that Josh is fragile. Other more durable players will begin to slide in front of him. His slim hope of going in the lottery are probably dashed. If there is a silver lining, an adviser might recommend for Josh to regain the confidence of the draft wizards by playing his senior year for the Zags.

If he misses the first 8 or 10 games of the year and returns to help his team win its conference championship and do well in the NCAA tourney, it will give the NBA a different perception, no ?

Two sides to the same coin. . .

strikezag
11-09-2007, 07:55 PM
This story is getting so damn old. Couple years ago, it was Heytvelt and Knight. Last year, it was Downs, Burgess, Gurganious, and Davis. Now, before the season even starts, we are down Heytvelt and potentially Bouldin. Obviously injuries happen with every team. Statistically, this probably is no different than what happens elsewhere. But personally, I am sick and tired of fantacizing about how good we could have been if we were at full strength.

zag67
11-09-2007, 08:17 PM
Has anyone heard any confirmation on Matt? Let us talk about a scenario where Matt is out for about 3 weeks. That would have him back after GAS. He would be there for our trip back east.

Now for the next 3 weeks, you would have Pargo at the point. Possibly Downs at the 2. That would put Daye at the 3. Pendo at the 4 and Kuso at the 5. That to me is a very strong set of players. (Again this is a BIG guess)

The bench would then be probably Gray for 1/2. Ira and LG for the 2/3/4. Leaving Davis for the 4/5and Sacre for the 5.

This set of players have the rebounders, defensive stoppers, shooters, and point guard. All of the new players were going to have to learn how to play, well I guess they will have some OJT. And by the way they WILL make mistakes. The key is over the year, that they learn and improve from them.

Injuries are not fun to see, but at least this year the coaches have more options. They will happen each year, but the key is we do not want them in the March time frame.

I just hope the recover as quickly as possible and that when they come back they do not have any side affects from the injury.

TM27
11-09-2007, 08:39 PM
Injuries happen. It is part of sports...if the same type of injuries happen year after year, then something is not right? If Josh broke his foot because he was rushed back then...What a DAMN joke!
D1 coach, D1 players, D1 medical staff????

Devils advocate...February and March matter, November and December not as much. Without Heytfelt ...freshman will be in for a baptism by fire. This experience is better in the long run.

It goes without saying that this team needs Heytvelt to reach their full potential, so here is to a quick recovery. But if Bouldin is out for an extended period that is a much more serious loss...we are way too thin at that position to lose Bouldin. Plus he is our best all around guard!

Funny that the majority of us spent the last 8 months worrying about playing time, and dreaming up line ups...and it didn’t even live through the exhibition game.

upan8th
11-09-2007, 10:27 PM
Opinion here is that a combo of Kuso, Sacre and (hopefully Foster) will provide 15 to 25 points per game, 15 to 22 rebounds p/g and 3 to 6 blocks p/g. Or about the equivalent that Josh would have contributed. Plus, the in-game experience over the next four to six weeks will be invaluable for them next March. Very sorry about JH's injury. He seems star crossed. The team colalesced after his suspension last year and I expect they'll do the same in the next few weeks, but now they have a notable depth of talent that last year's squad lacked; and if Theo is able to contribute soon, I expect as many W's without Josh as would have been achieved with him in the lineup (at less than full speed).

CDC84
11-10-2007, 12:05 AM
I would sure like to know when Theo Davis is going to get over this crazy foot infection that he has. Gonzaga could use him now more than ever.

Gonzaga really needs to get Josh back by the Tennessee game. The Vols just have no one who can guard him....he could have a huge game. I mean, he could have a huge game against a number of teams, but the Vols are a top 10 team, and GU will need every advantage they can get to beat them.

The Tennessee and Memphis games keep gaining more importance with each passing day.........

GonzagaLove
11-10-2007, 07:45 AM
I am a half empty kind of guy, but here is some perspective. Josh could have easily been in the NBA this year, and we would all have been just as excited about our team and tournament outlook. We are going to be just fine. I can't believe I just said that....don't tell my wife. :)

SteeleMan
11-10-2007, 09:42 AM
About Josh playing in the exhibition...he was cleared by the doctors to play 5 minutes, which he did. And I think he earned the right to play, after getting all his duck's in a row after all that happened.

If he hadn't played and ten played against Montana and the same thing happened (fracture) then I'm sure people would be saying Why play him at all against Montana???

RenoZag
11-10-2007, 09:42 AM
Josh has a broken foot 6 - 8 weeks and Gray has a broken wrist 6 - 8 weeks.

Above noted by Hondo on a different thread. . .

Reborn
11-10-2007, 03:05 PM
I got the word about Josh from a friend on the board who called me last night. Thanks! It just makes me sick. The Zags will do ok with josh rehabbing. I am sick for Josh and his family, but mainly for Josh. He must be really hurting, and I just want him to know that I am really behind him, and just saying, "hang in their Josh, and don't give up." I really like Josh a lot. I have since the first time I saw him play in the Regional tournament his Senior year. I love his intensity most. I think he's a warrior and will fight his way through this and come March oh will be OK.

I'm just sick about this....I can only imagine how he has been waiting for this first game, and now this. ******************:mad:

zaguarxj
11-10-2007, 06:16 PM
I think there's enough talent on this team to win the WCC even given the early season injuries. If everyone is healed and in game shape by tourney time all will be well. It's a little too early to panic. That being said, if Pargo goes down, I will commence freaking out.