PDA

View Full Version : Zags @ Arizona Dec. 2019



seacatfan
05-30-2019, 11:42 PM
Sorry if previously posted. According to Arizona's 247sports site GU will play in Tucson against the Cats Dec. 14. Looks to be UA's top OOC opponent, although they are in a tournament in Anaheim w/ opponents TBA.

SorenTodd45
05-31-2019, 07:22 AM
Should be a good Quad 1 win for the Zags. The days of Lute Olson, Mike Bibby and company are long gone. I will always cherish their 1997 title though.

TheOtherGreatOne
05-31-2019, 08:43 AM
I don't understand. Miller is right in the middle of this paying players and are going to get burned, yet all these top rated players can't wait to run to Miller. Are they still paying players ? Not only this but Miller has done less with more talent ever since he has been at Arizona than any coach in the country.

seacatfan
05-31-2019, 04:15 PM
I don't know. It still seems to me like there is a complete lack of evidence. Allegations don't prove anything.

Completely disagree with the most do less with more coach in the country. See Romar, Rice or whatever his name was at UNLV, even the much revered K has kinda whiffed some years with several future lotto picks. Calipari has been getting diminishing returns at Kentucky too. Miller has never had that kind of talent. Oh, and Alford at UCLA had just as much talent and zippo for results. Never won the Pac 12 and never advanced beyond the Sweet 16. If you actually think Alford did a better job of coaching than Miller...well I don't know what to tell you.

SorenTodd45
05-31-2019, 04:38 PM
Those of us old enough to remember college hoop in the 90's (days of pre awesome Zagness), the U of A and UCLA dominated the Pac-10. Lute Olson and Steve Lavin were the premiere coaches. Each program won a title ('95 and '97). Those days are now a distant memory, and the Pac-12 is now the Joke-12. Miller is a fraud and somehow, someway, the NCAA will catch up to him.

seacatfan
05-31-2019, 05:59 PM
Harrick was the coach at UCLA for that '95 Championship, he got in trouble later. I thought Lavin was largely considered an underachiever. He had some ridiculously talented teams and Sweet 16 was his ceiling for the most part (maybe one Elite 8?).

Yeah, looked Lavin up on wikipedia. Honestly Miller has accomplished more than Lavin did.

Bogozags
06-01-2019, 02:53 AM
Harrick was the coach at UCLA for that '95 Championship, he got in trouble later (He cheated on his travel expenses.). I thought Lavin was largely considered an underachiever. He had some ridiculously talented teams and Sweet 16 was his ceiling for the most part (maybe one Elite 8?).

Yeah, looked Lavin up on wikipedia. Honestly Miller has accomplished more than Lavin did.

There were and still are coaches that underachieve with the talented players they sign...IMO Miller has not achieved at the level he should have with all that talent he has had but talent isn't everything - chemistry is so important. Granted UA has had injury issues as well as abuse concerns so there have been distractions...

I have nothing to base this on but always felt Miller was a man of integrity other wise why would Coach Few keep associating and playing with UA...

Time will tell and it will be interesting to see how the chips fall BUT if there is wrong doing I don't believe the NCAA will penalize any of the programs with probation...

maynard g krebs
06-01-2019, 12:46 PM
Harrick was the coach at UCLA for that '95 Championship, he got in trouble later. I thought Lavin was largely considered an underachiever. He had some ridiculously talented teams and Sweet 16 was his ceiling for the most part (maybe one Elite 8?).

Yeah, looked Lavin up on wikipedia. Honestly Miller has accomplished more than Lavin did.

Agree on Lavin. Great recruiter, good tv analyst (imo) but couldn't get all that top talent to mesh.

bartruff1
06-01-2019, 01:13 PM
Miller has never been indicted ….the University did a investigation of the allegations and put him back on the court....He has been a friend of Gonzaga....

Arizona frequently uses the basketball facilities at Gonzaga when they play at WSU...... He and Few are friends...

The media reports have been little more/less than gossip. Few has encouraged people to keep a open mind and wait for all the facts to come out....that seems like good advice to me...

ZagzKrak
06-01-2019, 01:32 PM
Miller has never been indicted ….the University did a investigation of the allegations and put him back on the court....He has been a friend of Gonzaga....

Arizona frequently uses the basketball facilities at Gonzaga when they play at WSU...... He and Few are friends...

The media reports have been little more/less than gossip. Few has encouraged people to keep a open mind and wait for all the facts to come out....that seems like good advice to me...

Ya just gossip given under oath in a court of law. :roll:

bartruff1
06-01-2019, 01:50 PM
Ya just gossip given under oath in a court of law. :roll:

The media reports have not been taken under oath in a courtroom....if the authorities have something on him....they should file some charges. ...as yet....they haven't....

ZagzKrak
06-01-2019, 04:10 PM
The media reports have not been taken under oath in a courtroom....if the authorities have something on him....they should file some charges. ...as yet....they haven't....

NCAA violations aren't against the law....however we know how well the NCAA investigates the P-6 teams. :confused:

zagdontzig
06-02-2019, 12:16 PM
NCAA violations aren't against the law....however we know how well the NCAA investigates the P-6 teams. :confused:

It is incorrect to say that violations of NCAA rules cannot be the basis for a criminal act. That was merely a narrative defense counsel offered.

soccerdud
06-02-2019, 02:39 PM
It is incorrect to say that violations of NCAA rules cannot be the basis for a criminal act. That was merely a narrative defense counsel offered.

important distinction: an *act* can be BOTH illegal and against NCAA rules. however, they are entirely separate rulesets with different goals, enforcement, and adjudication/burden-of-proof. ZK's point was that bart's post was logically flawed and misleading, and he is correct. the lack of legal action against miller tells us next to nothing about whether he committed NCAA violations, and what level of proof of that exists.

bart's very doggedly pursuing the ostrich strategy wrt miller. i don't think it holds much water. ZK's post was both correct and useful in this application, imo, and correctly pointed out the fallacy in the position it was responding to.

scott257
06-03-2019, 09:38 AM
The media reports have not been taken under oath in a courtroom....if the authorities have something on him....they should file some charges. ...as yet....they haven't....

The testimony and wiretaps indicate that he did not exercise control over his program as a head coach. Things the NCAA has hung lesser programs/coaches for in the past. The NCAA is gutless when it comes to holding the bigger names accountable.

CDC84
06-03-2019, 09:51 AM
FWIW - The game date has be known for some time. This is the best site in the world for tracking Zag scheduling:

https://zagsguru.wordpress.com/welcome/schedule/future-gonzaga-schedule/

The return game is set. Dec. 5, 2020 in Spokane at K2.

bartruff1
06-03-2019, 10:15 AM
To my knowledge the NCAA investigation of Arizona is on going.....as yet, there have been no infractions alleged …. as yet no one has released a recording of Miller.....to be continued...

Temple University " Sports Research Center " did a study of some 550 NCAA Infraction Cases from 1953 to 2014 and found no discrimination when assigning penalties based upon conference affiliation...

maynard g krebs
06-03-2019, 10:55 AM
Temple University " Sports Research Center " did a study of some 550 NCAA Infraction Cases from 1953 to 2014 and found no discrimination when assigning penalties based upon conference affiliation...

So, no collusion?

willandi
06-03-2019, 10:56 AM
So, no collusion?

They didn't address Pacific almost getting the death penalty for North Carolina cheating for decades.

TexasZagFan
06-03-2019, 11:17 AM
They didn't address Pacific almost getting the death penalty for North Carolina cheating for decades.

And they've been walking on egg shells ever since.

Bogozags
06-03-2019, 01:22 PM
So, no collusion?

:000tens:

sittingon50
06-03-2019, 02:27 PM
So, no collusion?

:roll:

DixieZag
06-04-2019, 02:57 AM
They didn't address Pacific almost getting the death penalty for North Carolina cheating for decades.

Ha, yep! That sprung to mind immediately.

"Well, I sure haven't studied penalties going back to the 50s, but I can sure think of one "discrepancy" not based on conference but based upon being the University of Michael Jordan.

Some good answers above regarding NCAA sanctions not being criminal acts. One point to note, in some circumstances, it would be hard to commit the NCAA violation without committing a criminal act, whether that be fraud or unreported income.

Kiddwell
06-04-2019, 11:02 AM
Should be a good Quad 1 win for the Zags. The days of Lute Olson, Mike Bibby and company are long gone. I will always cherish their 1997 title though.

Like your enthusiasm but still leery about Arizona's usual high-level talent. A lot of the Zags's parts will have never played together before. Hope we've enough pre-Arizona games to see the guys mesh. Potentially, we'll be able to throw waves of really-good bigs at 'Zona. Hope our grad-transfer guards bond, complement each other, shine.




:]

NotoriousZ
06-04-2019, 06:13 PM
I would bet that the Zags will be clicking by mid-December and get the road win. I just don’t see it being a Quad I win unfortunately. Maybe Zona can turn it on, but I will believe it when I see it.

West Side Lady
06-04-2019, 06:40 PM
I don't know. It still seems to me like there is a complete lack of evidence.


Miller has never been indicted ….the University did a investigation of the allegations and put him back on the court

“While this report does not conclude that Miller committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

NotoriousZ
06-05-2019, 10:10 AM
Wasn’t there a bizarre stipulation in Miller’s contract that gave him a bonus if he was fired with cause (wrongdoing)?

Zagdawg
06-05-2019, 10:19 AM
https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/sean-miller-s-revised-contract-terms-include-threat-of-a/article_2dee0bde-5b01-57bc-ad94-dcf3d5a761a0.html

GoZags
06-05-2019, 11:13 AM
West Side Lady for threeeeeee .... nuthin’ but twine.


“While this report does not conclude that Miller committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

NotoriousZ
06-05-2019, 11:27 AM
https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/sean-miller-s-revised-contract-terms-include-threat-of-a/article_2dee0bde-5b01-57bc-ad94-dcf3d5a761a0.html

Thanks, I see that the opposite is true, which makes sense. I could have sworn I saw something here that showed he got more money for getting fired with cause. So either it was misreported here or Im remembering it wrong.

Bogozags
06-05-2019, 11:52 AM
“While this report does not conclude that Miller committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

So then this is like the obstruction issue in Mueller's report?

TexasZagFan
06-05-2019, 12:41 PM
So then this is like the obstruction issue in Mueller's report?

It all depends on what the word "is" is, to recall an oldie but goodie. ;)

Kiddwell
06-06-2019, 09:09 AM
Miller has never been indicted .the University did a investigation of the allegations and put him back on the court....He has been a friend of Gonzaga....

Arizona frequently uses the basketball facilities at Gonzaga when they play at WSU...... He and Few are friends...

The media reports have been little more/less than gossip. Few has encouraged people to keep a open mind and wait for all the facts to come out....that seems like good advice to me...

Kiddwell likes Sean Miller. I appreciate his willingness to play home & homes with the Zags. Yes, it may turn out he's been bending/breaking the rules. Till then, though, this fan's pulling for him to be exonerated. (Call me naive.)


:]

zagdontzig
06-06-2019, 09:27 AM
important distinction: an *act* can be BOTH illegal and against NCAA rules. however, they are entirely separate rulesets with different goals, enforcement, and adjudication/burden-of-proof. ZK's point was that bart's post was logically flawed and misleading, and he is correct. the lack of legal action against miller tells us next to nothing about whether he committed NCAA violations, and what level of proof of that exists.

bart's very doggedly pursuing the ostrich strategy wrt miller. i don't think it holds much water. ZK's post was both correct and useful in this application, imo, and correctly pointed out the fallacy in the position it was responding to.

That's not incorrect, but my point was specifically that an NCAA rule, where there is no law explicitly prohibiting a behavior, can be incorporated into statutory analysis to become the basis for a criminal conviction. This crime is known as honest services fraud, found in a statutory definition at 18 U.S.C.  1346, and stands as a catch-all for scenarios where an act is not explicitly criminal, but has the color of fraudulent behavior.

It's not correct to say that violation of an NCAA rule alone is not tantamount to a criminal act. It very well can be, even in a scenario where there is NOT a parallel "ruleset" as you put it. As we often say in my profession, trust me, I'm a lawyer.

Nevada Don
06-07-2019, 09:14 AM
Highly sought after. SMC was down to the wire I believe.

JORDAN BROWN


Status : Verbally Committed to Arizona

Year2018 (FR)

PositionPF

Height6-11

Weight210

HometownRoseville, CA

High SchoolProlific Preparatory School

AAU TeamPlay Hard Play Smart
Profiles

ZagaZags
06-08-2019, 12:12 AM
“While this report does not conclude that Miller committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

He should hire Jussie Smollett's lawyers. But then again how does one obstruct when no crime is committed? My guess is, we will find the NCAA had bias towards Miller before he was hired at Arizona.