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View Full Version : Welcome to GU Admon Gilder!!!



Radbooks
05-05-2019, 11:34 AM
He committed today:



Jeff Goodman
‏Verified account @GoodmanHoops
1m1 minute ago

Gonzaga has landed Texas A&M grad transfer Admon Gilder, he told @Stadium.

Radbooks
05-05-2019, 11:34 AM
Another confirmation:



Jeff Borzello
‏Verified account @jeffborzello

Texas A&M graduate transfer Admon Gilder has committed to Gonzaga, he tells ESPN. Massive pickup for the Zags.

gonzagafan62
05-05-2019, 11:57 AM
Love it.

former1dog
05-05-2019, 12:02 PM
Fantastic. A senior with experience playing against SEC competition who will help stabilize the back court and bring much needed strong defensive play!

I would anticipate he takes a leadership role on the team, especially on the defense.

JPtheBeasta
05-05-2019, 12:03 PM
Wonderful news! Welcome aboard. Can’t wait to see how much Bulldog you have in you.

LongIslandZagFan
05-05-2019, 12:06 PM
Nice... just what the doctor ordered. Should be a nice transition into the 2020 class. Would be nice to see Ravet spell him to get some time at PG.

zagsfanforlife
05-05-2019, 12:06 PM
I am so stoked. And while some disagreed that he is all American caliber, I truly believe that he will have that amount of impact. I think I was the first to bring his name up, at least on Twitter because he was the best grad transfer available imo. He is an ELITE, ELITE defender. And can get you 15-20 on any given night. Plus is a hungry 5th year senior . Huge huge news.

former1dog
05-05-2019, 12:08 PM
Nice... just what the doctor ordered. Should be a nice transition into the 2020 class. Would be nice to see Ravet spell him to get some time at PG.

I think, depending on other developments, that we'll see a lot of Gilder and Ravet on the floor together.

ZagNative
05-05-2019, 12:22 PM
From the Dallas News: (https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2019/05/05/texas-am-guard-admon-gilder-play-fifth-year-gonzaga-graduate-transferhttp://)

Interestingly, Gilder will return to College Station this season as Gonzaga is set to face A&M at Reed Arena as part of the back end of a home-and-home. The Zags beat the Aggies, 94-71, in Spokane during non-conference play last season.

Zagceo
05-05-2019, 12:37 PM
Welcome to the party....more PG's the better.

1 down 2 to go...maybe...

MDABE80
05-05-2019, 12:38 PM
I heard this last Thurs and posted in Whelping box. We have another coming too.. I'm just glad this one is now official. Good size, decent shooter and great defense. Lost of work to do before 19-20 begins. Ravet will shoot the lights out and work well with Admon. More to come;)

Mantua
05-05-2019, 12:39 PM
Gilder posted the news on his Instagram page.

Welcome Admon Gilder!

GonzaGAW
05-05-2019, 12:39 PM
I am so stoked. And while some disagreed that he is all American caliber, I truly believe that he will have that amount of impact. I think I was the first to bring his name up, at least on Twitter because he was the best grad transfer available imo. He is an ELITE, ELITE defender. And can get you 15-20 on any given night. Plus is a hungry 5th year senior . Huge huge news.

- I agree admon has all American potential. he simply was the best pg available as a grad transfer, this commitment is 10's across the board.

- welcome mr. gilder, I truly think zag nation might be more excited about this news than maybe even you are.
- stay healthy my friend, play hard, and enjoy!

zagsfanforlife
05-05-2019, 12:45 PM
I heard this last Thurs and posted in Whelping box. We have another coming too.. I'm just glad this one is now official. Good size, decent shooter and great defense. Lost of work to do before 19-20 begins. Ravet will shoot the lights out and work well with Admon. More to come;)

Come on Abe spill the beans. Who we waiting on? Jenkins or nix?

Plainsman
05-05-2019, 01:01 PM
Looks like a nice get for the Zags, though I doubt he'll be able to beat out true freshman Brock Ravet for a starting slot!!!!!:)

GonzagasaurusFlex
05-05-2019, 01:17 PM
I am so stoked. And while some disagreed that he is all American caliber, I truly believe that he will have that amount of impact. I think I was the first to bring his name up, at least on Twitter because he was the best grad transfer available imo. He is an ELITE, ELITE defender. And can get you 15-20 on any given night. Plus is a hungry 5th year senior . Huge huge news.

2 PG backcourt of Gilder and Ravet
+
Kispert / Watson
Timme / Watson
Petrusev / Zakarov

JPtheBeasta
05-05-2019, 01:40 PM
Is he a PG or more of a combo guard? He averaged almost 4 assists per game his 2016-17 year before taking a back seat to Duane Wilson the following. Gilder played a lot of minutes and statistically looks like a solid all-around player. It seems that if he's on the floor for major minutes we can look forward to double digit scoring, 1-2 steals a game, 3-4 assists, and 4 rebounds per game. I am excited about his reported talents on defense but if he can be a high-level defender while contributing in other areas-- not least of which is a lot of college basketball experience-- he does seem like a guy who can solidify this back court.

His stats compare well with Zach Norvell's, and he is just an inch shorter than ZN, so he would take some of the sting out of him leaving, if such ends up being the case.

willandi
05-05-2019, 01:41 PM
I'm at a show and should not be on the phone, but have had to check all weekend.
Great news.

webspinnre
05-05-2019, 02:06 PM
Fantastic news! Big-time combo guard with defense being a major plus. Exactly what we needed.

sittingon50
05-05-2019, 02:09 PM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3947074/admon-gilder

cggonzaga
05-05-2019, 02:09 PM
Is he a PG or more of a combo guard? He averaged almost 4 assists per game his 2016-17 year before taking a back seat to Duane Wilson the following. Gilder played a lot of minutes and statistically looks like a solid all-around player. It seems that if he's on the floor for major minutes we can look forward to double digit scoring, 1-2 steals a game, 3-4 assists, and 4 rebounds per game. I am excited about his reported talents on defense but if he can be a high-level defender while contributing in other areas-- not least of which is a lot of college basketball experience-- he does seem like a guy who can solidify this back court.

His stats compare well with Zach Norvell's, and he is just an inch shorter than ZN, so he would take some of the sting out of him leaving, if such ends up being the case.

I won’t claim to know our plans for him but he appears to be the definition of combo guard to me. He may lead us in scoring next season.

caldwellzag
05-05-2019, 02:45 PM
This is huge, we could easily end up a preseason top 15 team now!!

thespywhozaggedme
05-05-2019, 02:48 PM
Is he a PG or more of a combo guard? He averaged almost 4 assists per game his 2016-17 year before taking a back seat to Duane Wilson the following. Gilder played a lot of minutes and statistically looks like a solid all-around player. It seems that if he's on the floor for major minutes we can look forward to double digit scoring, 1-2 steals a game, 3-4 assists, and 4 rebounds per game. I am excited about his reported talents on defense but if he can be a high-level defender while contributing in other areas-- not least of which is a lot of college basketball experience-- he does seem like a guy who can solidify this back court.

His stats compare well with Zach Norvell's, and he is just an inch shorter than ZN, so he would take some of the sting out of him leaving, if such ends up being the case.

Scout lists him as a sg:

https://247sports.com/Player/Admon-Gilder-35439/

ZagaZags
05-05-2019, 03:05 PM
I heard this last Thurs and posted in Whelping box. We have another coming too.. I'm just glad this one is now official. Good size, decent shooter and great defense. Lost of work to do before 19-20 begins. Ravet will shoot the lights out and work well with Admon. More to come;)

You might even call him “Jenks”. :D

Goshzagit
05-05-2019, 03:37 PM
2 PG backcourt of Gilder and Ravet
+
Kispert / Watson
Timme / Watson
Petrusev / Zakarov

I'm still hopeful for:

Ravet
Gilder
Kispert/Watson
Timme
Tillie

MickMick
05-05-2019, 03:41 PM
Love his size, maturity, defensive prowess, and experience. One of the top grad transfer guards available.

Just what the doctor ordered.

Malastein
05-05-2019, 04:02 PM
Just hoping that the young guys make some big improvements over the next couple of years to renew hope that the Zags are true contenders! It’d be great to keep the sweet sixteen streak alive too!

Hooray4Daye&Gray
05-05-2019, 04:09 PM
Leader!

Would love to see his playmaking next to the shooting of Ravet and Jenkins.

A 5th year senior leader with tournament experience is the perfect bridge to the greatest Zag PG of the Mark Few era coming in a year later...

MDABE80
05-05-2019, 04:11 PM
Come on Abe spill the beans. Who we waiting on? Jenkins or nix?

GoZags knows everything!

ZagNative
05-05-2019, 04:14 PM
From Twitter:

Jim Meehan
‏ @SRJimm

Admon Gilder on choosing Gonzaga: "Just the same values that I have for myself and my family, coach Few has for the entire program. It felt like a family when I was there."

GrizZAG
05-05-2019, 04:39 PM
Is Boogie Ellis off the table? If not will this commit discourage Boogie?

Goshzagit
05-05-2019, 05:17 PM
Is Boogie Ellis off the table? If not will this commit discourage Boogie?

No. Because Boogie isn't even considering us.

We weren't even in his final Top 5 before he committed to Duke.

thespywhozaggedme
05-05-2019, 05:22 PM
Is Boogie Ellis off the table? If not will this commit discourage Boogie?

Everything I've read, it's Memphis for Boogie

Zagdawg
05-05-2019, 05:29 PM
Welcome to the Zag family Admon.

VinnyZag
05-05-2019, 07:01 PM
A 5th year senior leader with tournament experience is the perfect bridge to the greatest Zag PG of the Mark Few era coming in a year later...

Nigel Williams-Goss is coming back to school?

Mantua
05-05-2019, 07:12 PM
Is Boogie Ellis off the table? If not will this commit discourage Boogie?

I’d rather have taller, stronger, experienced Gilder for this year and next year we might luck out. As it is, Harris looks really good and is improving.

Hooray4Daye&Gray
05-05-2019, 07:26 PM
Nigel Williams-Goss is coming back to school?

Opinion - I would argue that Jalen is better today at age 17 than Nigel is today at age 24.

Fact - Jalen will play games in the NBA. A ton of them.

Malastein
05-05-2019, 08:24 PM
Opinion - I would argue that Jalen is better today at age 17 than Nigel is today at age 24.

Fact - Jalen will play games in the NBA. A ton of them.

That’s a pretty bold statement. Nigel still has plenty of time to make it to the League!

MDABE80
05-05-2019, 10:09 PM
It’s a wrong statement too.

WallaWallaZag
05-05-2019, 11:35 PM
not trying to rain on anyone's parade...but gilder is coming back from a major blot clot that prevented him from playing for over a year and threatened to end his career...hopefully a non-issue moving forward but even if so it's going to take time for him to get back on track.

thespywhozaggedme
05-06-2019, 05:42 AM
not trying to rain on anyone's parade...but gilder is coming back from a major blot clot that prevented him from playing for over a year and threatened to end his career...hopefully a non-issue moving forward but even if so it's going to take time for him to get back on track.

I'm pretty sure that the staff is well aware of this.

JPtheBeasta
05-06-2019, 06:43 AM
not trying to rain on anyone's parade...but gilder is coming back from a major blot clot that prevented him from playing for over a year and threatened to end his career...hopefully a non-issue moving forward but even if so it's going to take time for him to get back on track.

You aren’t, unless you have specific information about how long he has been away from basketball-related activities, when he might be able to start them again, or the nature of any impairment(s) he might still have.

NotoriousZ
05-06-2019, 06:50 AM
Nice... just what the doctor ordered. Should be a nice transition into the 2020 class. Would be nice to see Ravet spell him to get some time at PG.

Welcome Admon Gilder! No pressure, but I would love to see our Zags in Spokane for next year’s NCAA tournament. If that doesn’t work out, we will just have to settle for another sweet 16 or better!

Again, welcome!
(no pressure) :)

Radbooks
05-06-2019, 07:16 AM
Admon was not able to play basketball for several months with a blood clot in his arm. Here are some comments he made on twitter on April 7th:



Admon Gilder
‏ @hph_lilmon
Apr 7

I want to thank everyone for their encouraging words, prayers, and overall support in my time of discomfort. It's been a long journey dealing with my health and being away from the game I love. However, my doctor was able to tell me I am now able to resume my basketball career.



Admon Gilder
‏ @hph_lilmon

I am blessed to know I get a chance to re-establish myself and get back to normalcy. However, I would be remiss if I fail to say sometime God has to break us to bless us!




Admon Gilder
‏ @hph_lilmon
Apr 7

With that being said, "I am not where I want to be, nor am I where I am going to be, but I thank God I am not where I use to be." Mama told me, it was a Minor Setback For A Major Comeback! Mom always knows best.

Reborn
05-06-2019, 07:43 AM
I spent a little time watching video of Admon Gilder. I watched a video of a five minute interview and was really impressed with his character. I think that's number one. He's a really "cool" guy with a very good personality and likes to smile and laugh.

I think the strength of his offensive game is his ability to get inside and shoot inside and finish around the basket. His size (6'4", 200 lbs) and athleticism really help him. He is NOT anything like Norvell in my opinion, and attacks the hoop much, much better. His outside shot does remind me of Kevin Pangos', but he shoots a really nice mid-range pull up jump shot. He gets up pretty high on it and has nice form. He shot 39% from behind the 3 pt line the last year he played (Junior year), which is pretty good. He shot around 110 3 pt shots during that year which is pretty good. He averaged 12.3 ppg that year which is perfect I think.

When trying to compare him to a Zag player, I would say he reminds me of Gary Bell: especially his size and athleticism. And he's 2 inches taller than Gary which allows him to score inside even better than Gary did. We all loved how Gary Bell played, and I believe we will really enjoy watching and rooting for Gilder. I'm smiling.

Go Zags!!!

JPtheBeasta
05-06-2019, 09:07 AM
Radbooks, thanks for find those tweets. However, they are ambiguous about just how much he has been on the shelf. He obviously hasn't played in games, but has he been able to shoot, run and engage in basketball activities of some nature? Risk of blood clot is worse with prolonged inactivity (such as a plane flight), which would have made travel with the team more dangerous for him. Dehydration is another risk factor with clots, which makes playing in games risky. If there was also a clot in his lung that we don't know about, that obviously can be a problem and needs months to be cleared from. Other than that, and pain permitting, it seems like he should have been able to do light activities and do reps to keep his skills sharp. I suppose getting used to the speed of the game again and improving his endurance will be a hurdle.

Another comment in regards to his tweets: a trend I have been following with transfers is that he seems like a religious guy. GU seems to get a fair amount of those. His tweets seem to show more than just a passing reference to God, as some athletes are wont do. JW3 and Drew Barham were notably other transfers who are men of faith. NWG has made comments that made me think he had similar proclivities.

Therunner
05-06-2019, 09:40 AM
He was Texas HS Bball Player of Year.

Cool

maynard g krebs
05-06-2019, 12:19 PM
Would love to see his playmaking next to the shooting of Ravet and Jenkins.



IMO Ravet's best assets are his passing, ball handling, and court vision/awareness. That's based on one hs game in person and a few video clips, so limited sample size. But imo he's much more than a shooter; that's secondary to his other skills .

3zagda
05-06-2019, 12:43 PM
I am very excited he is joining the Zags.
But, everything I see describes him as a shooting guard, not a point guard. Correct?
Does he solve our point guard situation?

WallaWallaZag
05-06-2019, 12:51 PM
I am very excited he is joining the Zags.
But, everything I see describes him as a shooting guard, not a point guard. Correct?
Does he solve our point guard situation?

not a pure point...more of a combo guard but capable of running the point and has experience doing so. needs another capable ball handler playing alongside him to be effective imo...which is the zag staff/system preference anyways.

caldwellzag
05-06-2019, 01:06 PM
Everything I've read, it's Memphis for Boogie

Boogie is not an option at this point. We called checked in and most importantly moved on.

caldwellzag
05-06-2019, 01:08 PM
Opinion - I would argue that Jalen is better today at age 17 than Nigel is today at age 24.

Fact - Jalen will play games in the NBA. A ton of them.

Man you know I love Jalen, but NWG is something special. He could have come back and played another year at GU and played some sparing minutes in the NBA, but he choose his path that could lead him back to the NBA, if not he will make a good living overseas. Jalen at 17 is great, top 10 in the country great, but not as good as a 24 year old NWG.

thespywhozaggedme
05-06-2019, 01:10 PM
Boogie is not an option at this point. We called checked in and most importantly moved on.

Agreed.

cjm720
05-06-2019, 01:13 PM
Welcome to the team!

This is big time! He reminds we of a cross between Pargo and Bell. 🤪

CDC84
05-06-2019, 04:05 PM
Why would you want Boogie Ellis when you have the high possibility of landing Suggs in 2020? Or Nix. Or, as some are discussing on the whelping board, BOTH. Boogie was a no name recruit who emerged out of nowhere to become a top 40 player. I am convinced he got scared out of his LOI because he knows Coach K is going to recruit over him. He is not a super elite recruit. The guy only weighs 165lbs soaking wet.

I have been told Gilder is more of a combo guard. Gonzaga doesn't need another PG or CG this year unless it's a grad transfer. They need a transitional player or two. The goal is to have a very good backcourt THIS YEAR in preparation for the guys who will be coming in or likely coming in the following season.

Boogie....heading to Memphis IMO.

JPtheBeasta
05-06-2019, 04:20 PM
From what I recall, Boogie Ellis sort of came out of nowhere, when he established himself with some very hot shooting from 3-point range in the AAU circuit. I think GU offered him around that time. It seems to me that we have plenty of shooters (the possible addition of Jenkins notwithstanding).

Based on the lack of a true PG in the graduate transfers the staff is courting (unless I am forgetting somebody), I am taking this to mean for now that they are confident in what they have in hand already at PG (be it Ravet, Foster, Ayayi, etc).

caldwellzag
05-07-2019, 06:50 AM
Why would you want Boogie Ellis when you have the high possibility of landing Suggs in 2020? Or Nix. Or, as some are discussing on the whelping board, BOTH. Boogie was a no name recruit who emerged out of nowhere to become a top 40 player. I am convinced he got scared out of his LOI because he knows Coach K is going to recruit over him. He is not a super elite recruit. The guy only weighs 165lbs soaking wet.

I have been told Gilder is more of a combo guard. Gonzaga doesn't need another PG or CG this year unless it's a grad transfer. They need a transitional player or two. The goal is to have a very good backcourt THIS YEAR in preparation for the guys who will be coming in or likely coming in the following season.

Boogie....heading to Memphis IMO.

I couldn't agree more! Well stated CDC!

Texas A&M
05-07-2019, 09:33 PM
Gilder is a great addition to your team. I was sorry to see him leave A&M, but I can't fault him for this choice. As long as he's healthy you're getting a great player (and a great leader).

webspinnre
05-07-2019, 10:36 PM
Gilder is a great addition to your team. I was sorry to see him leave A&M, but I can't fault him for this choice. As long as he's healthy you're getting a great player (and a great leader).

Thanks for checking in and adding this. We're thrilled to have him.

MDABE80
05-07-2019, 11:18 PM
Nice of A & M to drop by! Thanks! We got lucky!
Gilder is a great addition to your team. I was sorry to see him leave A&M, but I can't fault him for this choice. As long as he's healthy you're getting a great player (and a great leader).

jazzdelmar
05-08-2019, 03:51 AM
Gilder is a great addition to your team. I was sorry to see him leave A&M, but I can't fault him for this choice. As long as he's healthy you're getting a great player (and a great leader).

Classy post....thanks TAMU.

Radbooks
05-08-2019, 02:59 PM
Here's a nice interview with Admon:

https://texags.com/s/32244/admon-gilder-reflects-on-his-four-years-in-aggieland-transfer-to-gonzaga

sittingon50
05-08-2019, 05:27 PM
Thanks Rad.

Hooray4Daye&Gray
05-08-2019, 06:54 PM
Here's a nice interview with Admon:

https://texags.com/s/32244/admon-gilder-reflects-on-his-four-years-in-aggieland-transfer-to-gonzaga

This video interview with Admon Gilder is an absolute MUST WATCH.

I was blown away. After seeing this, it is not only clear that Admon will absolutely be the LEADER of the Zags players next year, it is obvious that he will reach his dream of becoming a head coach some day.

Honestly, I think this video deserves its own thread. I'll let a mod that agrees make the actual move so I don't ruffle any feathers, but I can honestly say this is the most insightful look into a Gonzaga player I have ever had on the internet. And that includes listening to the 2 hour podcast with Geno last year, which was fascinating in its own way. This one is all about basketball, and Admon's journey. I promise you after watching it you will be a HUGE fan of his before his first game with us. Wait until you have 23 minutes to spare, click the link, and absolutely ENJOY.

Radbooks
05-08-2019, 07:19 PM
Yeah, I really got a sense of him as a person. Very cool guy, I think. Here is another interview with KREM today:

https://www.krem.com/article/sports/gonzaga/catching-up-with-gonzaga-commit-admon-gilder/293-8bd54059-6acf-488d-a1ee-1dde653dc4ef

katman50
05-08-2019, 07:46 PM
Great video. Seems like an incredible get and a fine young man.

webspinnre
05-08-2019, 09:08 PM
What an interview! Mature young man, family man, man of prayer...

Goshzagit
05-08-2019, 09:11 PM
Opinion - I would argue that Jalen is better today at age 17 than Nigel is today at age 24.


More like Hooray4Hyperbole.

GonzaGAW
05-08-2019, 09:48 PM
- glad I carved out 23 minutes of my evening, as indeed a very good interview..........knowing more about the young man, I believe admon will be as impactful off the court, in practice, in the community as he will be on the court. another future and great ambassador for zagnation.

Goshzagit
07-31-2019, 08:40 AM
Clip after clip, Admon has shown his unique ability to post-up and score around the hoop, vs equal or smaller guards.

We haven't seen this post-up ability since Bouldin or NWG.

We got a good one; the kid is a player! He did take 6 months off yet is back on the court now.

2 min clip here, opening rd game vs Providence is a good example, yet there are other examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyaJyKKnnNE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyaJyKKnnNE)

Reborn
07-31-2019, 09:38 AM
Clip after clip, Admon has shown his unique ability to post-up and score around the hoop, vs equal or smaller guards.

We haven't seen this post-up ability since Bouldin or NWG.

We got a good one; the kid is a player! He did take 6 months off yet is back on the court now.

2 min clip here, opening rd game vs Providence is a good example, yet there are other examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyaJyKKnnNE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyaJyKKnnNE)

Gilder is just terrific at attacking the basket, and has a great floater in the middle of the key which reminds me of NWG. It will be nice to have a player who can attack the basket with success. I really like his style of play a lot. And like you said, he can post up on the low post with lots of success. I think he will fill the gap that was left when Norvell departed for the NBA.

DixieZag
07-31-2019, 10:31 AM
Gilder is just terrific at attacking the basket, and has a great floater in the middle of the key which reminds me of NWG. It will be nice to have a player who can attack the basket with success. I really like his style of play a lot. And like you said, he can post up on the low post with lots of success. I think he will fill the gap that was left when Norvell departed for the NBA.

Floaters are extremely hard to hit, but for the kids that can, they're near impossible to stop. NWG had the best I'd seen in a Zag, and I didn't see a way to stop them. I think the floaters won us a game at BYU that year.

Reborn
07-31-2019, 12:48 PM
Floaters are extremely hard to hit, but for the kids that can, they're near impossible to stop. NWG had the best I'd seen in a Zag, and I didn't see a way to stop them. I think the floaters won us a game at BYU that year.

Certainly true. Matt Santangelo also had a great floater, and won a few games for the Zags while he played.

soccerdud
07-31-2019, 02:23 PM
Gilder is just terrific at attacking the basket, and has a great floater in the middle of the key which reminds me of NWG. It will be nice to have a player who can attack the basket with success. I really like his style of play a lot. And like you said, he can post up on the low post with lots of success. I think he will fill the gap that was left when Norvell departed for the NBA.

agree entirely, 'born. also worth noting that along with all of that, he had top ~10% or so efficiency in catch-and-shoot situations, as well. really versatile, physical, and will be a huge addition next year. i predict he'll end up a top 5 or so modern zag transfer in terms of total impact (approaching dickau/wiltjer/nwg/bc status and surpassing players like downs and mathews-- who were both excellent in their own right).

i expect that, much like bc last season, we'll realize by early december that his addition was severely underhyped for most of the offseason.

sittingon50
07-31-2019, 03:05 PM
Hope you're right, dud!

soccerdud
07-31-2019, 03:33 PM
Hope you're right, dud!

me too :)

zaguarxj
07-31-2019, 05:00 PM
And if the opponents' bigs have to help, we'll have Tillie/Petrusev/Timme open for 3!