PDA

View Full Version : Norvell Declares Part II



Markburn1
05-02-2019, 09:39 AM
Go ahead and close this thread too. I honestly don't know why it's a problem for people to discuss what they want to discuss.

" Starter Corey Kispert is back, and Zach Norvell Jr. and Killian Tillie probably will return."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26647277/unc-big-mover-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20

In reality, nobody knows nothing. Including the writer of this ESPN Top 25 released today.

If anybody is done with a topic, it's really simple. Don't participate.

Hooray4Daye&Gray
05-02-2019, 10:32 AM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26647277/unc-big-mover-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20

I'm confused. Why is Gonzaga ranked number 6 if we haven't even picked up Gilder or Nix yet? I thought our ceiling was a top 32 team barely able to make the 2nd round of the tournament.

In reality, if Norvell stays or Jenkins is able to transfer without sitting out, and we add Gilder/Nix or Harris reclassifies, we are likely ranked top 10 in the preseason and are more than capable of making the Elite 8 in the postseason.

bartruff1
05-02-2019, 10:51 AM
I give...how a team can lose 8 of it's best players including 2 All Americans and two 5 year Point Guards and still be ranked in the top ten is amazing... reputation ?

jazzdelmar
05-02-2019, 11:12 AM
It’s called journalistic inertia.

ZagNative
05-02-2019, 11:12 AM
Hare-brained thread resurrected .... I expect nothing but good from this stroke of genius ....

LongIslandZagFan
05-02-2019, 11:15 AM
Wonder how long before someone calls a player either a quitter or an idiot. Just a matter of time.

Zagceo
05-02-2019, 11:22 AM
Hare-brained thread resurrected .... I expect nothing but good from this stroke of genius ....


Wonder how long before someone calls a player either a quitter or an idiot. Just a matter of time.

the only negatives posts in this thread are these and they target other board members. rules?

no one forces you to read any OP.

Gonzdb8
05-02-2019, 12:16 PM
I give...how a team can lose 8 of it's best players including 2 All Americans and two 5 year Point Guards and still be ranked in the top ten is amazing... reputation ?

2 potential future NBA players both with tons of experience, other high level talent returning (petrusev), a highly rated recruiting class, and the expectation of an experienced grad transfer plugged in this summer. top 10 doesn't seem like such a stretch.

LongIslandZagFan
05-02-2019, 01:42 PM
the only negatives posts in this thread are these and they target other board members. rules?

no one forces you to read any OP.

You are correct. But I don’t think the OP was about someone quitting on the team either. I will stop reading just about everything I guess since this seems to be the answer to every thread

bartruff1
05-02-2019, 02:27 PM
2 potential future NBA players both with tons of experience, other high level talent returning (petrusev), a highly rated recruiting class, and the expectation of an experienced grad transfer plugged in this summer. top 10 doesn't seem like such a stretch.

I assume you are thinking Norvell and Tillie are returning....I don't....other high level ??? The recruits are freshmen, yet to prove anything....and as yet, no grad transfer....I guess that is why they call it the " way to soon...."... because it is way to soon...

IMHO it is a stretch....but you are welcome to your opinion...

Mantua
05-02-2019, 08:22 PM
Hare-brained thread resurrected .... I expect nothing but good from this stroke of genius ....

You and LongIsland made laugh and made my day!


Yeah, it would be great if Norvell and Tillie came back. My opinion is that the odds of that happening are lousy. Iím not going to spend one more second think about it.

MDABE80
05-02-2019, 11:48 PM
Go ahead and close this thread too. I honestly don't know why it's a problem for people to discuss what they want to discuss.

" Starter Corey Kispert is back, and Zach Norvell Jr. and Killian Tillie probably will return."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26647277/unc-big-mover-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20

In reality, nobody knows nothing. Including the writer of this ESPN Top 25 released today.

If anybody is done with a topic, it's really simple. Don't participate.

Thinking that possibly..just possibly everything that needed to be said was, indeed, said in 9 pages of comments. This, with new rankings is a different thread with a different point. Rankings etc. are fine I think. As the last thread closed, it seemed things became negative with pages of personal comments and very negative look at the kids who play or have played here. When that happens, the thread changes and is corrupted. Grudges are formed and kept which is not the point of the Board.

DixieZag
05-03-2019, 05:55 AM
I do believe that Norvelle will return, and maybe I am being guarded in my emotions, but I just won't let myself even yearn for Tillie to return, bc I think that is a complete paradigm shift regarding next year, more so than Norvelle.


Going into last year, prior to the injury, Tillie was regarded as the team's "best player." When Rui and BC exploded, that talk fell back, obviously. But, a healthy and engaged Tillie brings almost the same type of defensive presence as BC, some of Rui's inside game, and 3 pt shooting at a higher percentage than anyone else.

Tillie has always been a player with "flashes" of brilliance, at times unstoppable. Chronic injury might explain why in some games he seemed to fade. If we had him, and if he was healthy, it would just mean "everything" to me, regarding next year.

Norvelle is almost as critical, but it isn't in any way an "insult" to say that I don't think he brings quite as much as Tillie.

LongIslandZagFan
05-03-2019, 06:02 AM
You and LongIsland made laugh and made my day!


Yeah, it would be great if Norvell and Tillie came back. My opinion is that the odds of that happening are lousy. I’m not going to spend one more second think about it.


Right now... I don't even think Zach knows. I'd say it is 70-30... one direction or the other.

I hope he comes back, but if he has assurances, then he should make the jump. We'll all know soon enough

Ezag
05-03-2019, 06:50 AM
I would say they will both be back.

willandi
05-03-2019, 06:53 AM
I would say they will both be back.

I tend to agree with that, but if they are both back there is only one available schollie, at this point.

former1dog
05-03-2019, 07:01 AM
Right now... I don't even think Zach knows. I'd say it is 70-30... one direction or the other.

I hope he comes back, but if he has assurances, then he should make the jump. We'll all know soon enough

This makes the most sense to me. Well said!

Zagdawg
05-08-2019, 12:25 PM
Atlanta Hawks

Verified account

@ATLHawks
Follow Follow @ATLHawks
More
Players joining us for day 7️⃣ of 2019 pre-draft workouts tomorrow:

→ Silvio De Sousa (Kansas)
→ Quentin Grimes (Kansas)
→ Ahmed Hill (Virginia Tech)
→ Skylar Mays (LSU)
→ Zach Norvell Jr. (Gonzaga)
→ Dylan Osetkowski (Texas)

Atlanta has picks 5, 9, 35, 41 and 42

thespywhozaggedme
05-08-2019, 12:55 PM
I do believe that Norvelle will return, and maybe I am being guarded in my emotions, but I just won't let myself even yearn for Tillie to return, bc I think that is a complete paradigm shift regarding next year, more so than Norvelle.


Going into last year, prior to the injury, Tillie was regarded as the team's "best player." When Rui and BC exploded, that talk fell back, obviously. But, a healthy and engaged Tillie brings almost the same type of defensive presence as BC, some of Rui's inside game, and 3 pt shooting at a higher percentage than anyone else.

Tillie has always been a player with "flashes" of brilliance, at times unstoppable. Chronic injury might explain why in some games he seemed to fade. If we had him, and if he was healthy, it would just mean "everything" to me, regarding next year.

Norvelle is almost as critical, but it isn't in any way an "insult" to say that I don't think he brings quite as much as Tillie.

No “e”. I mean people have been telling you this for over a year now. It’s just disrespectful to keep spelling our own players names incorrectly.

caldwellzag
05-08-2019, 01:05 PM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26647277/unc-big-mover-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20

I'm confused. Why is Gonzaga ranked number 6 if we haven't even picked up Gilder or Nix yet? I thought our ceiling was a top 32 team barely able to make the 2nd round of the tournament.

In reality, if Norvell stays or Jenkins is able to transfer without sitting out, and we add Gilder/Nix or Harris reclassifies, we are likely ranked top 10 in the preseason and are more than capable of making the Elite 8 in the postseason.

Harris is not going to reclassify, it is not in Gonzaga's plans. Nix now...

caldwellzag
05-09-2019, 07:48 AM
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1126513541400260608

caldwellzag
05-09-2019, 07:49 AM
Some more

https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1126513939028643846

ZagsObserver
05-09-2019, 08:09 AM
We need another body, clearly, and the staff knows this.

Best of wishes, Norvell. Sounds like GU will have at least 3 draftees, 2 potentially in the lottery. Thanks for the hard work.

As for GU, Nix seems like the ideal get. I have no idea on the odds of this.

WallaWallaZag
05-09-2019, 08:13 AM
sounds like some people in the nba have a higher opinion of zack norvell than some of the people on this forum...the improvement snacks made on d have boosted his stock...anyways, can't blame him if he has a guarantee in his pocket.

MDABE80
05-09-2019, 08:15 AM
I just cannot see how Norvell makes the league. Ballhandling is iffy and his defense is average (with luck). Shooting is average even though he's hit some big shots in his 2 years at GU. I just want the best for these kids.

WallaWallaZag
05-09-2019, 08:30 AM
I just cannot see how Norvell makes the league. Ballhandling is iffy and his defense is average (with luck). Shooting is average even though he's hit some big shots in his 2 years at GU. I just want the best for these kids.

he's got a couple things going for him that some of his competition doesn't: he has nba size + has proven he can shoot from nba range (while closely guarded at that).

webspinnre
05-09-2019, 08:37 AM
Hey, if he can get himself that guaranteed deal, that's hard to pass up. Best wishes to him!

ZagsObserver
05-09-2019, 08:40 AM
he's got a couple things going for him that some of his competition doesn't: he has nba size + has proven he can shoot from nba range (while closely guarded at that).

And he gets his shot off very quickly. That’s huge. Good shooters which have a long release generally do not transition well to the next level. Zach represents the opposite of that.

Bouldin4Prez
05-09-2019, 08:42 AM
I just cannot see how Norvell makes the league. Ballhandling is iffy and his defense is average (with luck). Shooting is average even though he's hit some big shots in his 2 years at GU. I just want the best for these kids.

37% on 7 attempts a game is much better than average. The league needs guys who can stretch the floor. His defense is what will make or break him. If he can guard the 2/3 positions and adequately defend the pick and roll when he's put in it, he will have a long NBA career. He's never going to be asked to be a playmaker at the NBA level, but what he can be is a solid positional defender and good shooter. Literally every team in the league is looking for as many of those guys as they can. Rui has a much much higher ceiling than Zack but I honestly think Zack has a better floor. Rui has the possibility to be out of the league in 3 years if he's just a midrange shooter that doesn't have much playmaking, doesn't stretch the floor, and doesn't play particularly great defense.

MileHigh
05-09-2019, 08:54 AM
I just cannot see how Norvell makes the league. Ballhandling is iffy and his defense is average (with luck). Shooting is average even though he's hit some big shots in his 2 years at GU. I just want the best for these kids.

Even though Klay Thompson ended up being a lottery pick, I think Norvell is very, very similar talent-wise to Klay Thompson coming out of college. Both 6-6 and around 38% career 3 pt shooters in college. Neither real athletic, but have long arms. Both quick release shots with unlimited range. Neither handled the ball well enough to play the point. Both were OK, but not great defenders in college.

NBA game is all about the 3 ball now, even with the bigs. If a guy is a +shooter they will overlook a few warts. Also, you have to factor in Norvell's shot selection when looking at his shooting %. Seems like every game he took one or two "no hope" three attempts. IMO, If he doesn't take those heat check shots he shoots over 40%.

I predict he will go early to middle second round

LongIslandZagFan
05-09-2019, 08:57 AM
Sounds like someone gave him a guarantee... Best of luck Snacks!

former1dog
05-09-2019, 09:01 AM
Sounds like someone gave him a guarantee... Best of luck Snacks!

+1

I would love to have him back.

Lets not forget what we are supposed to go to college for, though, and that is to become a professional. Zach is doing just that.

Mr Vulture
05-09-2019, 09:02 AM
Even though Klay Thompson ended up being a lottery pick, I think Norvell is very, very similar talent-wise to Klay Thompson coming out of college. Both 6-6 and around 38% career 3 pt shooters in college. Neither real athletic, but have long arms. Both quick release shots with unlimited range. Neither handled the ball well enough to play the point. Both were OK, but not great defenders in college.

NBA game is all about the 3 ball now, even with the bigs. If a guy is a +shooter they will overlook a few warts. Also, you have to factor in Norvell's shot selection when looking at his shooting %. Seems like every game he took one or two "no hope" three attempts. IMO, If he doesn't take those heat check shots he shoots over 40%.

I predict he will go early to middle second round

Norvell is not at the same level Klay was coming out of college. Not saying Norvell can't carve a role in the NBA but Klay was a better shooter, more consistent, and more athletic.

kitzbuel
05-09-2019, 09:09 AM
Norvell is not at the same level Klay was coming out of college. Not saying Norvell can't carve a role in the NBA but Klay was a better shooter, more consistent, and more athletic.Norvell's stats compare pretty favorably with Klay's, particular given that Zach was not the primary scorer that Klay was. Comparisons are not that much of a stretch.

Zach is a better interior scorer than Klay was, better at driving.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

Bouldin4Prez
05-09-2019, 09:10 AM
Norvell is not at the same level Klay was coming out of college. Not saying Norvell can't carve a role in the NBA but Klay was a better shooter, more consistent, and more athletic.

You're right and Mile isn't saying he's at the same level as Klay, hence the reason he predicted Norvell going in the second round while Klay was a lottery pick. A poor man's Klay Thompson is still a hot commodity in the NBA right now. Norvell's numbers really aren't that far off Klay though if you go and look. Klay is more athletic than Norvell though, no doubt about that.

amaronizag
05-09-2019, 09:18 AM
I think Norvell's defense has been way understated on this board. He has his hands into a lot of plays, gets a lot of deflections, gets some steals, has a nose for the ball and chases rebounds all over the floor from way out of his position. His rebounding is above average for his height and position. I agree that his handles are a bit loose, but his 3pt % is above average and he can finish in the paint. As I said when he came to GU, he reminds me of Victor Olidipo (spelling?) in a lot of ways. I think he has a good motor and will contribute for several years in the league. It was a pleasure to watch you play at GU Snacks!! Best of luck and thanks for the memories!!

MileHigh
05-09-2019, 09:19 AM
37% on 7 attempts a game is much better than average. The league needs guys who can stretch the floor. His defense is what will make or break him. If he can guard the 2/3 positions and adequately defend the pick and roll when he's put in it, he will have a long NBA career. He's never going to be asked to be a playmaker at the NBA level, but what he can be is a solid positional defender and good shooter. Literally every team in the league is looking for as many of those guys as they can. Rui has a much much higher ceiling than Zack but I honestly think Zack has a better floor. Rui has the possibility to be out of the league in 3 years if he's just a midrange shooter that doesn't have much playmaking, doesn't stretch the floor, and doesn't play particularly great defense.

Wow. Disagree strongly on Rui. His shot mechanics are really really sound. After a couple of years training with the best skill development guys on the planet he will be able to shoot the 3 ball well enough to thrive in the NBA. He is quicker than most PF's in the NBA and stronger than most SF's. I really think he is a cant miss type player (at least in terms of a 10 year career as a contributor)

Agree 100% on Norvell. His game transfers well to the modern NBA

Bouldin4Prez
05-09-2019, 09:34 AM
Wow. Disagree strongly on Rui. His shot mechanics are really really sound. After a couple of years training with the best skill development guys on the planet he will be able to shoot the 3 ball well enough to thrive in the NBA. He is quicker than most PF's in the NBA and stronger than most SF's. I really think he is a cant miss type player (at least in terms of a 10 year career as a contributor)

Agree 100% on Norvell. His game transfers well to the modern NBA

I'm not saying that scenario does happen with Rui, just saying that he will need to grow a lot to be a solid NBA contributor. Stretching his range to the NBA 3 point line will be crucial for him. The faster he does this, the faster he's going to do well at the next level.

Zagdawg
05-09-2019, 09:44 AM
Rui shot 41.7% from 3 this year -- took 36 and made 15 ---- not a huge sample --- not sure how that translates long term to the NBA-- but he can hit a 3 when needed.

MileHigh
05-09-2019, 10:01 AM
. Klay is more athletic than Norvell though, no doubt about that.

Klay Thomson is well below average as an athlete at the NBA level. His 6-10 wingspan makes up for his lack of hops. At the NBA combine his vert was a 31.5 which was 44th out of the 50 players measured. While Norvell is similarly vertically challenged, I bet he measures out similar to Thompson in athleticism at the combine next week

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-draft-combine-athleticism-testing

jake
05-09-2019, 10:05 AM
I'm hoping this works and well for Norvell and maybe someone gave him a guarantee. He's obviously more in the trenches to know what's going on, and it's clearly Norvell's decision to make. However, message boards are for opinions, so mine is (absent a guarantee) I don't see the point to declare as a 2nd round pick with two years of eligibility left. I understand he's 21. That does play into it. I also understood NWG leaving with eligibility left and a likely late draft choice. However, unlike NWG, it seems Norvell would have had a good chance next year to take on a different role and show growth in his game, leadership, and as the primary offensive option. I don't see him as a 21 year old that "is what they are" with no real potential to move up the draft boards. On the other hand, he can move up in workouts etc. between now and the draft, and there's nothing that says he can't keep improving his game outside of the NCAA structure. I wish him the best and enjoyed his time at GU.

Bouldin4Prez
05-09-2019, 10:47 AM
Klay Thomson is well below average as an athlete at the NBA level. His 6-10 wingspan makes up for his lack of hops. At the NBA combine his vert was a 31.5 which was 44th out of the 50 players measured. While Norvell is similarly vertically challenged, I bet he measures out similar to Thompson in athleticism at the combine next week

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-draft-combine-athleticism-testing

I guess Klay is just taller and longer as you pointed out earlier, because it feels like a real struggle for Norvell to dunk anything other than a run out whereas Klay has always been able to dunk in traffic. Realistically, the main two things for Norvell is if he's able to keep up laterally and has good length for his size. Those two traits will go a long ways for him.

OntZags
05-09-2019, 10:58 AM
I'm hoping this works and well for Norvell and maybe someone gave him a guarantee. He's obviously more in the trenches to know what's going on, and it's clearly Norvell's decision to make.

He just worked out for the Atlanta Hawks who have 3 second round picks.

I don't want to jump the gun or anything but I suspect this 100% news coming out following those workouts is a reasonable sign an assurance is just what he has.

Vanzagger
05-09-2019, 01:13 PM
Klay’s coach, Jackson, said Klay was the best 2 guard in the world and that it was not close. So the 31.5 vert is probably under selling it a bit as far as a complete athlete.

That was 5 years ago of course

I think GS could use any of our Zags right about now

zagfan1
05-09-2019, 02:20 PM
Hoping the best for snacks and he makes the league. If he can go in the top half of the second round there is a good chance that he can stick on a NBA roster and not have to play G league ball.

Markburn1
05-09-2019, 03:26 PM
I'm hoping this works and well for Norvell and maybe someone gave him a guarantee. He's obviously more in the trenches to know what's going on, and it's clearly Norvell's decision to make. However, message boards are for opinions, so mine is (absent a guarantee) I don't see the point to declare as a 2nd round pick with two years of eligibility left. I understand he's 21. That does play into it. I also understood NWG leaving with eligibility left and a likely late draft choice. However, unlike NWG, it seems Norvell would have had a good chance next year to take on a different role and show growth in his game, leadership, and as the primary offensive option. I don't see him as a 21 year old that "is what they are" with no real potential to move up the draft boards. On the other hand, he can move up in workouts etc. between now and the draft, and there's nothing that says he can't keep improving his game outside of the NCAA structure. I wish him the best and enjoyed his time at GU.

Not all of these decisions are 100% basketball related.

Zagsker
05-09-2019, 04:31 PM
Even though Klay Thompson ended up being a lottery pick, I think Norvell is very, very similar talent-wise to Klay Thompson coming out of college. Both 6-6 and around 38% career 3 pt shooters in college. Neither real athletic, but have long arms. Both quick release shots with unlimited range. Neither handled the ball well enough to play the point. Both were OK, but not great defenders in college.

NBA game is all about the 3 ball now, even with the bigs. If a guy is a +shooter they will overlook a few warts. Also, you have to factor in Norvell's shot selection when looking at his shooting %. Seems like every game he took one or two "no hope" three attempts. IMO, If he doesn't take those heat check shots he shoots over 40%.

I predict he will go early to middle second round

Good comparison

Unbiased
05-09-2019, 07:10 PM
Even though Klay Thompson ended up being a lottery pick, I think Norvell is very, very similar talent-wise to Klay Thompson coming out of college. Both 6-6 and around 38% career 3 pt shooters in college. Neither real athletic, but have long arms. Both quick release shots with unlimited range. Neither handled the ball well enough to play the point. Both were OK, but not great defenders in college.

NBA game is all about the 3 ball now, even with the bigs. If a guy is a +shooter they will overlook a few warts. Also, you have to factor in Norvell's shot selection when looking at his shooting %. Seems like every game he took one or two "no hope" three attempts. IMO, If he doesn't take those heat check shots he shoots over 40%.

I predict he will go early to middle second round

Zach might make the NBA but he's not 6-6. Not even close.

MDABE80
05-09-2019, 08:01 PM
Even though Klay Thompson ended up being a lottery pick, I think Norvell is very, very similar talent-wise to Klay Thompson coming out of college. Both 6-6 and around 38% career 3 pt shooters in college. Neither real athletic, but have long arms. Both quick release shots with unlimited range. Neither handled the ball well enough to play the point. Both were OK, but not great defenders in college.

NBA game is all about the 3 ball now, even with the bigs. If a guy is a +shooter they will overlook a few warts. Also, you have to factor in Norvell's shot selection when looking at his shooting %. Seems like every game he took one or two "no hope" three attempts. IMO, If he doesn't take those heat check shots he shoots over 40%.

I predict he will go early to middle second round
I don’t think our guy is presently is the same zip code as Klay. He might turn out that way but now? Nah. Good luck to him!

Skimhvn
05-09-2019, 08:04 PM
I see Eric Gordon than Klay in him, and Norvell has a better shooting form.

MileHigh
05-09-2019, 08:07 PM
I don’t think our guy is presently is the same zip code as Klay. He might turn out that way but now? Nah. Good luck to him!

Of course not, Klay is a veteran NBA player with 3 rings, that wasn't the point of my post.

My point was that stat wise, skill wise, and athletically he is very similar to Klay Thompson when Thompson was coming out of college.

MileHigh
05-09-2019, 08:15 PM
I see Eric Gordon than Klay in him, and Norvell has a better shooting form.

Gordan is freakishly athletic with 40 inch vertical and really quick off the drbble. Dont see much similarity between he and Zorvell

MileHigh
05-09-2019, 08:21 PM
Zach might make the NBA but he's not 6-6. Not even close.

we will know for sure next week when he gets measured at the combine. Im thinking 6'5 1/2 in shoes, 6-4 without

MDABE80
05-09-2019, 08:39 PM
Of course not, Klay is a veteran NBA player with 3 rings, that wasn't the point of my post.

My point was that stat wise, skill wise, and athletically he is very similar to Klay Thompson when Thompson was coming out of college.

Even at the same stage. We’ll see. I’m really interested to see how he does..

Goshzagit
05-10-2019, 04:10 AM
Zach is a better interior scorer than Klay was, better at driving.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

Problem is, he rarely drove it.

When he did, he was usually terrific.

Norvell never fully utilized his all around game or size imo.

Still a great player who could score in bunches, or with the best of them, yet really wish he would have taken to the rim more.

Its precisely what we needed in that Elite 8 vs that physical defense. Relied far too often on the 25' jump shot.

raise the zag
05-10-2019, 04:19 AM
I see Zach Norvell as the next Eric Gordon.

Fearless shooter, but not a great one. Gordon is a career 37% 3pt shooter, yet makes them in bunches.

Also, Gordon is a scorer at every level. He can go cold as ice yet heat up when needed most or team needs to rally.

Gordon is a legit 6'4", 210 lb SG who isn't jumping out of the gym yet strong, explosive, and fearless.

A player you love and adore, yet cringe worthy decisions and shots some games/moments. He comes off the bench occasionally, starts others, yet still can scorer 15 pts in 5 mins, or go 2-11 in 5 mins too.

He loves the 3pt line yet is an effective dribble drive guy too.

I've always thought of Gordon as Norvell's NBA fit/comparison.

CanadianZagsFan
05-10-2019, 04:31 AM
The obvious comparison is Michael Redd down to : position, shooting hand, playing style, swagger, confidence when on fire, outside game heavily first then inside game, questionable defence at the next level, where heíll be drafted, first option is a shooter and scorer.

Do you want me to go on ?

I wish he stayed another year to develop his game at the next level , and guarantee more money as a fringe lottery -sure fire 1st rounder that I envisioned from the first videos I saw of him upon declaring. Of course, itís his dream. Not ours. I just seem to see his path more clearly than say my take on B Clarke and others prior to him.

MileHigh
05-10-2019, 05:21 AM
The obvious comparison is Michael Redd down to : position, shooting hand, playing style, swagger, confidence when on fire, outside game heavily first then inside game, questionable defence at the next level, where heíll be drafted, first option is a shooter and scorer.

Do you want me to go on ?

I wish he stayed another year to develop his game at the next level , and guarantee more money as a fringe lottery -sure fire 1st rounder that I envisioned from the first videos I saw of him upon declaring. Of course, itís his dream. Not ours. I just seem to see his path more clearly than say my take on B Clarke and others prior to him.

I like the Michael Redd comparison. Redd was one of the best 3 point shooters in the NBA from 23 feet, buy was only 30% in college from the 19 foot line. Just goes to show that players can drastically improve their 3 point shooting once they are in the League.

In my opinion ( and those advising Zach) another year in college wont help his draft position, and might hurt it (year older). His lack of explosiveness is what is keeping him out of the first round as a shooting guard, and that wont change after another year in college. Teams will draft him in second round with hopes that he will be a 40% + shooter from NBA range that can stretch the floor and will be able to defend his position well enough to not be a defensive liability.

titopoet
05-10-2019, 07:32 AM
Something that is being missed that it is big for the evolution of the program for this draft. If Zach gets drafted that would be at least three and possibly four players drafted. That is BIG for the future of recruiting. I wish nothing but the best for Norvell and he is and always be part of the history and lore of the Zag narrative, but f he gets drafted it will add a huge feather in the program as the largest number of players drafted.

People are treating Zach's opportunity to fulfill his Basketball dreams as like he was breaking up with the Zags when his being drafted will be such a great thing for the program in general. Don't take personally, but celebrate as the best for the program is yet to come and Zach is always part of the family.

former1dog
05-10-2019, 07:41 AM
Something that is being missed that it is big for the evolution of the program for this draft. If Zach gets drafted that would be at least three and possibly four players drafted. That is BIG for the future of recruiting. I wish nothing but the best for Norvell and he is and always be part of the history and lore of the Zag narrative, but f he gets drafted it will add a huge feather in the program as the largest number of players drafted.

People are treating Zach's opportunity to fulfill his Basketball dreams as like he was breaking up with the Zags when his being drafted will be such a great thing for the program in general. Don't take personally, but celebrate as the best for the program is yet to come and Zach is always part of the family.

+1

Well stated.

BTW - I don't think Zach would be making a definitive statement if he didn't have knowledge of some sort of guarantee.

MileHigh
05-10-2019, 09:29 AM
+1

Well stated.

BTW - I don't think Zach would be making a definitive statement if he didn't have knowledge of some sort of guarantee.

Those "we will take you if you are available" guarantees are pretty worthless, and any agent worth his salt knows that and communicates it to his client. A lot of players in both football and basketball have been sadly disappointed when the team that said "you are our guy" passes on them in the draft. It's a business and these kids often find out the hard way.

Zach has been given solid advice on what the worse case scenario is for him if he stays in the draft, what the best is, and what they think is most likely. Based on that info, he is staying in the draft. No guarantees involved at all.

Sometimes in life you just have to bet on yourself.

bballbeachbum
05-15-2019, 10:22 AM
if he lands somewhere, where that is will matter seems to me. will he be playing opposite Steph Curry? believe that has helped Klay tremendously, since we're comparing Zach's game to Klay's.

agree with amaronizag in that Zach making it will depend in no small part on his ability to defend elite perimeter players, at least kind of defend them, unless he becomes Klay with his 3 point shot, too

ZAG 4 LIFE
05-15-2019, 10:42 AM
Those "we will take you if you are available" guarantees are pretty worthless, and any agent worth his salt knows that and communicates it to his client. A lot of players in both football and basketball have been sadly disappointed when the team that said "you are our guy" passes on them in the draft. It's a business and these kids often find out the hard way.

Zach has been given solid advice on what the worse case scenario is for him if he stays in the draft, what the best is, and what they think is most likely. Based on that info, he is staying in the draft. No guarantees involved at all.

Sometimes in life you just have to bet on yourself.

Yes you do... well put MileHigh

CB4
05-15-2019, 10:52 AM
He has always bet on himself and he had good numbers this past year. I think it was the right move even though I didn't originally. Hopefully he goes to a team with a good development program and a history of promoting second round picks up from the G League. He'd be a great (and salary cap efficient) back up option off the bench for many teams.

ZagDad84
05-15-2019, 11:44 AM
Most of us agree that Zach should do what is best for Zach and we wish him the best of luck wherever he goes. He will always be a Zag and a member of the Zag family.

What I don't understand is the insistence by some posters that Zach "will not" or "could not" improve his draft position by staying another year. Outside of an injury, there are way to many variables involved to be making this kind of definitive statement.

Yes Zach, like all other players, is somewhat limited by his physical abilities, but to say that by spending another year at Gonzaga he definitively could not improve his on ball defense, improve his ball handling ability, show a greater tendency to take the ball to the hoop, or even improve his shooting percentages seem to be a bit shortsighted.

Not saying that he should stay another year at GU, or that it would be more beneficial (financial or otherwise) to spend another year at Gonzaga. Also not saying that he would not receive better coaching by going into the NBA, G-League or Europe than he would by staying at Gonzaga. Just saying that those who say he would not improve his draft position by staying another year, are, IMO, are providing a total disservice to the excellent coaching staff at Gonzaga and to Zach himself.

Zach most certainly would improve by staying another year at Gonzaga. Whether the amount of improvement would result in a better financial position, is up for debate.

ZagDad

Vanzagger
05-15-2019, 01:58 PM
if he lands somewhere, where that is will matter seems to me. will he be playing opposite Steph Curry? believe that has helped Klay tremendously, since we're comparing Zach's game to Klay's.

agree with amaronizag in that Zach making it will depend in no small part on his ability to defend elite perimeter players, at least kind of defend them, unless he becomes Klay with his 3 point shot, too

If you look at it, Steph became Steph when Draymond was added. So there is that

White lightning
05-15-2019, 05:22 PM
If you look at it, Steph became Steph when Draymond was added. So there is thatI think Steph became Steph when his major ankle problems lessened. He was Steph in college well before Draymond was in his life. Norvell has the goods he just needs to put it together. He's one of my favorite players. No fear. Good luck to him and all the other Zags that move on!!!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Markburn1
05-15-2019, 07:48 PM
If you look at it, Steph became Steph when Draymond was added. So there is that

If that wasn't Steph that torched the Zags, WHO WAS THAT MASKED MAN??!!??!

webspinnre
05-15-2019, 07:52 PM
If that wasn't Steph that torched the Zags, WHO WAS THAT MASKED MAN??!!??!

We have the somewhat dubious distinction of having been torched by both Steph and Draymond.

willandi
05-15-2019, 08:25 PM
We have the somewhat dubious distinction of having been torched by both Steph and Draymond.

Didn't Klay do it as well?

kyle dixon
05-15-2019, 08:49 PM
Didn't Klay do it as well?

But Looney never got us:) I think the Zags beat his UCLA team twice that year.

exclusivelee
05-16-2019, 06:23 AM
Zags beat Durant in 2006, Klay 2 out of 3 times,

bartruff1
05-16-2019, 06:53 AM
A Gonzaga all opponent team would include many NBA greats......including some Hall of Fame Players like Elgin Baylor....

bballbeachbum
05-16-2019, 07:12 AM
Didn't Klay do it as well?

I remember the game when Steven shut him down

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/dec/11/thompson-hits-bumps-in-the-road/

and interesting to note that Klay was told he needed to work on his handles back then. sound familiar? ;)

JPtheBeasta
05-16-2019, 07:54 AM
We have the somewhat dubious distinction of having been torched by both Steph and Draymond.

I think Draymond bounced in a three that really cost us, but that memory is hazy.

Mr Gray had a really good game scoring in that Davidson game, if I recall.

webspinnre
05-16-2019, 08:16 AM
I think Draymond bounced in a three that really cost us, but that memory is hazy.

Mr Gray had a really good game scoring in that Davidson game, if I recall.

He hung 34 on us:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=313442250

Bogozags
05-16-2019, 08:49 AM
Most of us agree that Zach should do what is best for Zach and we wish him the best of luck wherever he goes. He will always be a Zag and a member of the Zag family.

What I don't understand is the insistence by some posters that Zach "will not" or "could not" improve his draft position by staying another year. Outside of an injury, there are way to many variables involved to be making this kind of definitive statement.

Yes Zach, like all other players, is somewhat limited by his physical abilities, but to say that by spending another year at Gonzaga he definitively could not improve his on ball defense, improve his ball handling ability, show a greater tendency to take the ball to the hoop, or even improve his shooting percentages seem to be a bit shortsighted.

Not saying that he should stay another year at GU, or that it would be more beneficial (financial or otherwise) to spend another year at Gonzaga. Also not saying that he would not receive better coaching by going into the NBA, G-League or Europe than he would by staying at Gonzaga. Just saying that those who say he would not improve his draft position by staying another year, are, IMO, are providing a total disservice to the excellent coaching staff at Gonzaga and to Zach himself.

Zach most certainly would improve by staying another year at Gonzaga. Whether the amount of improvement would result in a better financial position, is up for debate.

ZagDad

Completely agree...one more year wouldn't hurt but wish him the very best and if he does get drafted, then those NBA assistants will work him until he reaches the point where his natural abilities are maximized. Another Clay, well it could be possible...who would have thought Clay would become such an integral part of the Warriors or any NBA team!


Oh, Draymond just didn't hit one three, he actually was unstoppable when he played us at GU.

Mr Vulture
05-16-2019, 10:04 AM
Completely agree...one more year wouldn't hurt but wish him the very best and if he does get drafted, then those NBA assistants will work him until he reaches the point where his natural abilities are maximized. Another Clay, well it could be possible...who would have thought Clay would become such an integral part of the Warriors or any NBA team!


Oh, Draymond just didn't hit one three, he actually was unstoppable when he played us at GU.

Klay was an excellent player and lottery pick so many thought he'd be an integral part of an NBA team. I think Klay is being drastically underrated for what he was coming out. I don't see Norvell's game as all that similar to the game of Klay either. For me, a comp I think of is CJ McCollum. I think that Norvell can be a very good rotational guy in the NBA for many years and maybe a starter if he reaches his ceiling. I hope he goes to a good situation where he will be able to play. I really think he gets drafted and I think it may be earlier than some expect (thinking first half of the second round).

bartruff1
05-16-2019, 10:29 AM
It seems intuitively obvious that if Zack is practicing with and playing against players who are or have the potential to play in the NBA.....

Under the guidance of a NBA coach with the objectives of teaching him the NBA game and grooming him for that opportunity.... and reporting his progress to a team that has a interest in him...…

Plus the fact that he can concentrate on that objective without the demands of being a college student.... he will greatly increase his chances....

As opposed to another year of college basketball...…

And he will be getting paid !...

You can always go to college....I have been going to college off and on since 1957 and expect to get another degree in a couple years or less.

JPtheBeasta
05-16-2019, 12:00 PM
He hung 34 on us:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=313442250

I was recalling it situationally. I can look up Draymond’s stats from that game as well as the next guy. Thanks, though.

DixieZag
05-16-2019, 12:24 PM
I was recalling it situationally. I can look up Draymond’s stats from that game as well as the next guy. Thanks, though.

I happened to be at that game (lucky?) and - yes - he looked like a future NBA star in that game. He was not only a "man" in build, he could not miss, not from 3, and damn sure not from near the hoop. He was literally unstoppable that game.

Zagdawg
05-16-2019, 04:00 PM
https://twitter.com/SKarrG0/status/1129152823055114243

JPtheBeasta
05-16-2019, 04:21 PM
I happened to be at that game (lucky?) and - yes - he looked like a future NBA star in that game. He was not only a "man" in build, he could not miss, not from 3, and damn sure not from near the hoop. He was literally unstoppable that game.

I was so excited for that game and definitely learned the hard way who Draymond was

JPtheBeasta
05-16-2019, 04:23 PM
I was recalling it situationally. I can look up Draymond’s stats from that game as well as the next guy. Thanks, though.

This was more snarky than it should have been. I apologize, Webspinnre. I think I’m in stats burn-out.

Zagdawg
05-16-2019, 05:45 PM
Sam M


@sammazz3
Follow Follow @sammazz3
More
Top 5 prospects for me who played in the combine scrimmages were IMO roughly:
1. Grant Williams
2. Jalen Lecque
3. Zach Norvell
4. Brian Bowen
5. Tremont Waters

Weighted more towards combine performance but I still used some of my opinion from prior.

webspinnre
05-16-2019, 08:28 PM
This was more snarky than it should have been. I apologize, Webspinnre. I think I’m in stats burn-out.

No worries. I remember thinking, "We can't stop this guy!"

Mantua
05-17-2019, 12:29 PM
No worries. I remember thinking, "We can't stop this guy!"

Draymond has an unusual skill set and is an unusually versatile player. He has great court vision. He’s a physical nightmare. His stats often don’t reflect the impact he has on a game.

I can’t see a comparison between Zach and Klay unless Zach can add an awful lot of muscle in the next few years. Klay developed into an elite defender after his WSU years. I’m wondering if Zach is thinking that his overall development will be accelerated faster and that he can better his game in the NBA rather than at GU.

bartruff1
05-17-2019, 12:32 PM
No worries. I remember thinking, "We can't stop this guy!"

Neither can Portland.....

Mr Vulture
05-17-2019, 12:47 PM
Can we talk about Norvell and the draft by chance?

webspinnre
05-17-2019, 02:27 PM
Can we talk about Norvell and the draft by chance?

Nope, definitely not! :roll:

But seriously, all indications are that Zach is showing himself well and putting himself in a good position.

bartruff1
05-17-2019, 03:48 PM
Well if Zack ends up with the Cavs he should know that it is against the law in Ohio to get a fish drunk....even if the fish is 21....

JPtheBeasta
05-17-2019, 04:28 PM
Well if Zack ends up with the Cavs he should know that it is against the law in Ohio to get a fish drunk....even if the fish is 21....

What do they do with all of the dry fish, especially when they can’t get sauced?

Zagsker
05-17-2019, 04:50 PM
Can we talk about Norvell and the draft by chance?

How dare they!!!

Zagdawg
05-17-2019, 05:09 PM
Steven Karr


@SKarrG0
2h2 hours ago
More
Zach Norvell's second combine scrimmage: 21 minutes, scored 18 points to lead all scorers (7-11 FG, 3-7 from deep) and dished a couple assists.

Hit a three in transition, hit this layup in transition, and had a post-up fadeaway. Good outing.

https://twitter.com/SKarrG0/status/1129517597102182401

kitzbuel
05-17-2019, 05:43 PM
What do they do with all of the dry fish, especially when they can’t get sauced?

They can smoke.

Ezag
05-17-2019, 08:33 PM
Norvell scores 26 in two combine scrimmages
Zach Norvell Jr., who averaged 14.9 points as a sophomore at GU, has had mixed results in two combine scrimmages.

He scored eight points on 3-of-9 shooting in 19 minutes Thursday. He had one assist, one steal, one rebound and five turnovers. Norvell posted a team-high 18 points on 7-of-11 shooting in 21 minutes Friday. He had two assists and four turnovers.

Norvell ranked at or near the bottom among point and shooting guards in lane agility time, shuttle run, three-quarter court sprint, max vertical and standing vertical.

MDABE80
05-18-2019, 12:46 AM
Ooooops……….but we've known he's not a high end athlete but these data from EE are discouraging for a young guy. His shooting has picked up though. Maybe that'll get him drafted. Not much speed and not much leaping ability doesn't sound good.

zaguarxj
05-18-2019, 11:44 AM
Norvell scores 26 in two combine scrimmages
Zach Norvell Jr., who averaged 14.9 points as a sophomore at GU, has had mixed results in two combine scrimmages.

He scored eight points on 3-of-9 shooting in 19 minutes Thursday. He had one assist, one steal, one rebound and five turnovers. Norvell posted a team-high 18 points on 7-of-11 shooting in 21 minutes Friday. He had two assists and four turnovers.

Norvell ranked at or near the bottom among point and shooting guards in lane agility time, shuttle run, three-quarter court sprint, max vertical and standing vertical.

Those numbers don't seem right. His on-court speed is nothing short of electrifying when he's finishing a break. Maybe he doesn't test well.

Bogozags
05-18-2019, 04:09 PM
Is there a chance he come back...those numbers are not indicative of an NBA player!

zagfan1
05-19-2019, 12:03 AM
Wish he did that in the Texas Tech game:)


Steven Karr


@SKarrG0
2h2 hours ago
More
Zach Norvell's second combine scrimmage: 21 minutes, scored 18 points to lead all scorers (7-11 FG, 3-7 from deep) and dished a couple assists.

Hit a three in transition, hit this layup in transition, and had a post-up fadeaway. Good outing.

https://twitter.com/SKarrG0/status/1129517597102182401

Mojo13
05-22-2019, 09:48 AM
Is there a chance he come back...those numbers are not indicative of an NBA player!

Yep.
Personally I think he is one of the players most hurt by the results of the Combine and has a very high chance of going undrafted.
If that happens he could still return to school if he thinks the G or Europe are not better paths.

sittingon50
05-22-2019, 10:04 AM
Purely SPECULATION on my part, but since he stated some time ago that he was all in on this, I would ASSUME that he has taken some money from an agent.

hooter73
05-22-2019, 10:14 AM
3 of 7 then 3 for 9 from deep both in less than 20 minutes each. Sounds about like the Norvell we know. He shoots too much and too quick from deep, but when he hits, he hangs 18 points in 20 minutes... but at what cost? I dont see a team wanting to spend money on that but what do I know.

jazzdelmar
05-22-2019, 10:33 AM
Wish he did that in the Texas Tech game:)

U betcha......and for most of the 2d half of the season.........it was pointed out to me by an "insider" on this board that ZN just didn't want to be the focus of next year's team.....kinda, counterintuitive, but who knows with these kids. he'll probably do well overseas.

LongIslandZagFan
05-22-2019, 12:02 PM
3 of 7 then 3 for 9 from deep both in less than 20 minutes each. Sounds about like the Norvell we know. He shoots too much and too quick from deep, but when he hits, he hangs 18 points in 20 minutes... but at what cost? I dont see a team wanting to spend money on that but what do I know.

Have you watched any NBA games lately? It has devolved into ill-advised three after ill-advised three. It has literally become one-dimensional... drive, kick out for a 3... almost every single trip down the court.

TexasZagFan
05-22-2019, 12:06 PM
Have you watched any NBA games lately? It has devolved into ill-advised three after ill-advised three. It has literally become one-dimensional... drive, kick out for a 3... almost every single trip down the court.

Long range bombers like Zach will be in demand when the NBA adds a 4 point line.

ZagsObserver
05-22-2019, 12:17 PM
Have you watched any NBA games lately? It has devolved into ill-advised three after ill-advised three. It has literally become one-dimensional... drive, kick out for a 3... almost every single trip down the court.

Yep. Almost nothing is considered a “bad” shot.

LongIslandZagFan
05-22-2019, 12:40 PM
Yep. Almost nothing is considered a “bad” shot.

Yeah who needs that 65-70% 2 pointer when you can take a 35% 3-pt shot.

CB4
05-22-2019, 01:34 PM
ZN certainly "went for it" with his shooting under the "shooters shoot" philosophy while at Gonzaga. He's now equally all in with his intent to be drafted and play in the NBA. I think all these criticisms of his game are fair and based on evidence and obvious observations, but the proof is ultimately in the pudding. Will he get drafted? Will he play minutes in the NBA next season? Will he work his way up from a D-League team? Will he sign for one million-plus dollars? Once we get the answers to these questions, I think we'll be able to fairly judge his decisions.

JPtheBeasta
05-22-2019, 01:53 PM
3 of 7 then 3 for 9 from deep both in less than 20 minutes each. Sounds about like the Norvell we know. He shoots too much and too quick from deep, but when he hits, he hangs 18 points in 20 minutes... but at what cost? I dont see a team wanting to spend money on that but what do I know.

3 of 7 from the 3 point line is equal to shooting 64% on two-pointers, and going 3 of 9 on 3-pointers is like shooting 50%. Assuming I did the math right, that’s pretty good. I get your point, though, as he does have a quick trigger, and going 2 for 9 or 1 for 9 is a buzzkill.

ZagsObserver
05-22-2019, 02:17 PM
3 of 7 from the 3 point line is equal to shooting 64% on two-pointers, and going 3 of 9 on 3-pointers is like shooting 50%. Assuming I did the math right, that’s pretty good. I get your point, though, as he does have a quick trigger, and going 2 for 9 or 1 for 9 is a buzzkill.

True. But there are qualitative elements. Shooting 3s doesn’t lend itself to picking up fouls (or shooting ft) and it results in more transition opportunities for opposing teams.

JPtheBeasta
05-22-2019, 02:27 PM
True. But there are qualitative elements. Shooting 3s doesn’t lend itself to picking up fouls (or shooting ft) and it results in more transition opportunities for opposing teams.

Good point. I agree that there are bad threes. Even great shooters like Steph Curry and James Harden take them, in my opinion. Norvell seemed to get better with his shot selection, and I have a feeling NBA veterans will help in this aspect of his development more than a coach could :)

(Aside from maybe Greg Poppovich; that man would scare me).

bballbeachbum
05-23-2019, 06:19 AM
Wish he did that in the Texas Tech game:)

they played 'd' in the TT game, or whatever that was.

the shooting looks fine, but 9 TOs in 40 minutes not so much. we'll see

Mantua
05-24-2019, 01:48 PM
they played 'd' in the TT game, or whatever that was.

the shooting looks fine, but 9 TOs in 40 minutes not so much. we'll see

Steph Curry is not just a 3 pt shooter. He can drive and pass and get steals and rebound (if coach wants him to). He runs his his legs off finding good shooting spots.

TexasZagFan
05-24-2019, 02:23 PM
Steph Curry is not just a 3 pt shooter. He can drive and pass and get steals and rebound (if coach wants him to). He runs his his legs off finding good shooting spots.

Ammo would have fit in well on this team...pre-injuries, of course.

bballbeachbum
05-25-2019, 07:11 AM
Steph Curry is not just a 3 pt shooter. He can drive and pass and get steals and rebound (if coach wants him to). He runs his his legs off finding good shooting spots.

cool. I wasn't talking about Curry and don't get the connection to my post about Zach, nor the comparison of Zach to Curry. Can you connect those dots for me please?

Curry great in the NBA, weird how international teams have picked on him defensively over the years rather successfully

Mantua
05-25-2019, 08:43 AM
cool. I wasn't talking about Curry and don't get the connection to my post about Zach, nor the comparison of Zach to Curry. Can you connect those dots for me please?

Curry great in the NBA, weird how international teams have picked on him defensively over the years rather successfully

Itís weird to me that the names of NBA elites have popped up in the current draft discussions as if there are comparisons to be made.

bballbeachbum
05-26-2019, 10:36 AM
Itís weird to me that the names of NBA elites have popped up in the current draft discussions as if there are comparisons to be made.

gotcha, and with you

scott257
05-29-2019, 01:33 PM
Honestly, I halfway expected an announcement that Norvell would be coming back too. Isn’t today the last day for him to make that decision?

sittingon50
05-29-2019, 04:12 PM
Yep.

maynard g krebs
05-31-2019, 01:40 PM
From DeCourcy at TSN, on 7 underclassmen who made the biggest mistakes by staying in:

"It's hard to understand what Norvell is thinking...….

He shot 37% (on threes) on 97 makes as a soph. With his size and a slight improvement in consistency, he would have been a solid first round prospect after next season. He also would have had the opportunity to be the Zags' primary star next year...……."

jazzdelmar
05-31-2019, 01:45 PM
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/oregons-louis-king-tennessees-jordan-bone-among-those-who-may-rue-nba-draft-entry-decisions-michigan-jordan-poole-arizona-brandon-randolph/19gicpu1hxgog1a63lnmrppokk


From DeCourcy at TSN, on 7 underclassmen who made the biggest mistakes by staying in:

"It's hard to understand what Norvell is thinking...….

He shot 37% (on threes) on 97 makes as a soph. With his size and a slight improvement in consistency, he would have been a solid first round prospect after next season. He also would have had the opportunity to be the Zags' primary star next year...……."

MDABE80
05-31-2019, 02:01 PM
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/oregons-louis-king-tennessees-jordan-bone-among-those-who-may-rue-nba-draft-entry-decisions-michigan-jordan-poole-arizona-brandon-randolph/19gicpu1hxgog1a63lnmrppokk

Not even a 2nd rounder. Who is the hel* was advising Norvell? He'll be left out. He could be positioned sooo much better if he stick around and gets his shooting even out. Take work....here or somewhere. Here though, he'd be featured so everyone who determines his future would be seeing him. Not so elsewhere.....G League at best. I really like this kid. I hate his choices.

gonzagafan62
05-31-2019, 02:07 PM
Not even a 2nd rounder. Who is the hel* was advising Norvell? He'll be left out. He could be positioned sooo much better if he stick around and gets his shooting even out. Take work....here or somewhere. Here though, he'd be featured so everyone who determines his future would be seeing him. Not so elsewhere.....G League at best. I really like this kid. I hate his choices.

I think he was advising for himself honestly. He wanted cash, which is fine. He’ll be set whether or not he makes it into the NBA.

Zagdawg
05-31-2019, 02:14 PM
Sean Cunningham

Verified account

@SeanCunningham
40m40 minutes ago
More
Saturday’s Kings pre-draft workout in Sacramento:

Frankie Ferrari (G – 6’1” San Francisco)

Josh Perkins (G – 6’3” Gonzaga)

Zach Norvell (G – 6’5.5” Gonzaga)

Charlie Brown (G – 6’7” St. Joseph’s)

Dewan Hernandez (F – 6’10” Miami)

Sacha Killeya-Jones (F – 6’11” Kentucky)

Vanzagger
05-31-2019, 06:10 PM
Perk is gonna have a chance. Keep ball moving.....no ball stoppers....Billups..leader

Bogozags
06-01-2019, 02:43 AM
Not even a 2nd rounder. Who is the hel* was advising Norvell? He'll be left out. He could be positioned sooo much better if he stick around and gets his shooting even out. Take work....here or somewhere. Here though, he'd be featured so everyone who determines his future would be seeing him. Not so elsewhere.....G League at best. I really like this kid. I hate his choices.

There are few on this board who would disagree with you...one more year for a lifetime...

jazzdelmar
06-01-2019, 04:35 AM
There are few on this board who would disagree with you...one more year for a lifetime...

His decision befits his personality. Confident, if not daring; high risk, high reward. Good luck.

MileHigh
06-01-2019, 05:19 AM
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/oregons-louis-king-tennessees-jordan-bone-among-those-who-may-rue-nba-draft-entry-decisions-michigan-jordan-poole-arizona-brandon-randolph/19gicpu1hxgog1a63lnmrppokk

The pundits all have opinions on this stuff (including me and every one else on this board) but I do know that the NBA folks have told Norvell two things that are important:

Number 1 is that this years draft, particularly at the guard position, is considered weaker than next years. Number 2 is that the knock against him ( athleticism) and the things they like (NBA range quick release shooter) will not change regardless of whether or not he goes back to Gonzaga. No one has told him that improving his college stats (shooting %, turnovers, ppg)would have any bearing on where he would be drafted. Bottom line is that most have told him he is likely a 2nd round pick or free agent, whether he comes out this year or next.
Also, maybe (and this is just an educated guess) ZN is simply done, both mentally and emotionally, with college ball and college life in general. While fans often think college basketball is all fun and excitement, it is often a repetitive grind to college players and they tire of the academic part, the same coaches in their ears year after year, little $$ in their pocket, and all the other trappings of being a college student/ athlete

Personally, I want to see where(if) he gets drafted, where he ends up playing(NBA/Gleague/overseas), and how well he does before I form my opinion on whether he would have increased his chances at pro $$ by playing another year of college basketball

bartruff1
06-01-2019, 05:48 AM
None of us can read Zack's mind or know his motivation or circumstances ÖÖ

I am grateful that he played at Gonzaga when he could have played for a Power6 Team closer to home.....I think he is using good judgement and is taking the best path available to him to reach the NBA . For me, he was a joy to watch and I hope he doesn't regret his choice to play at Gonzaga ....

TexasZagFan
06-01-2019, 06:47 AM
His decision befits his personality. Confident, if not daring; high risk, high reward. Good luck.

I'd include fearless in your list of adjectives.

Long range bombers like Zach are becoming more important to NBA teams. IIRC, during the first quarter of Thursday night's game, the Raptors shot over half of their attempts from beyond the arc.

bartruff1
06-01-2019, 07:36 AM
I'd include fearless in your list of adjectives.

Long range bombers like Zach are becoming more important to NBA teams. IIRC, during the first quarter of Thursday night's game, the Raptors shot over half of their attempts from beyond the arc.

Tex I feel the same way. I am certainly no expert but Zack seems to have the NBA body and game and disposition....in addition he will probably play the same position that he played at Gonzaga.

In the end, I believe everyone in here wants to see him succeed.

Mr Vulture
06-01-2019, 07:56 AM
While unlikely it happens, he did go to the combine so I believe he can technically come back if he isnít drafted. Maybe I misunderstood the new rules though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ZagsObserver
06-01-2019, 09:20 AM
The pundits all have opinions on this stuff (including me and every one else on this board) but I do know that the NBA folks have told Norvell two things that are important:

Number 1 is that this years draft, particularly at the guard position, is considered weaker than next years. Number 2 is that the knock against him ( athleticism) and the things they like (NBA range quick release shooter) will not change regardless of whether or not he goes back to Gonzaga. No one has told him that improving his college stats (shooting %, turnovers, ppg)would have any bearing on where he would be drafted. Bottom line is that most have told him he is likely a 2nd round pick or free agent, whether he comes out this year or next.
Also, maybe (and this is just an educated guess) ZN is simply done, both mentally and emotionally, with college ball and college life in general. While fans often think college basketball is all fun and excitement, it is often a repetitive grind to college players and they tire of the academic part, the same coaches in their ears year after year, little $$ in their pocket, and all the other trappings of being a college student/ athlete

Personally, I want to see where(if) he gets drafted, where he ends up playing(NBA/Gleague/overseas), and how well he does before I form my opinion on whether he would have increased his chances at pro $$ by playing another year of college basketball

Fantastic synopsis

Bogozags
06-01-2019, 09:49 AM
His decision befits his personality. Confident, if not daring; high risk, high reward. Good luck.

Jazz, I wish him the very best and after reading MileHigh's post I feel a little better about his chances...I didn't want him to come back so I/we would have him for another year...that would have been selfish and that isn't me! I hope he plays for 15 years and makes a ton of money and helps us recruit other players from the Chicago area...

roxdoc
06-01-2019, 09:51 AM
Have always been a big fan of Zack and wish him nothing but the best - that said I think MileHigh is on to something with Zack being done with college. The last part of the season and certainly in the tourneys he was way of his game. Yes he had a couple of spurts but I'm talking overall - just not the Zack that we could count on as before.

raise the zag
06-01-2019, 11:34 AM
Norvell played with much more bounce and explosion than we saw towards the end of February through Vegas and NCAA Tournament play.

I suspect he had a minor/nagging issue which needed a good week or two of rest and healing.

He looked so much quicker, and light on his feet at Combine. I felt Zach looked really sluggish in post-season play, and it seemed physical to me.

Its a great sign going forward for him in workouts and auditions.

GonzagasaurusFlex
06-01-2019, 03:27 PM
Tex I feel the same way. I am certainly no expert but Zack seems to have the NBA body and game and disposition....in addition he will probably play the same position that he played at Gonzaga.

In the end, I believe everyone in here wants to see him succeed.

Good article in The Athletic about Jerry Stackhouse and his coaching Raptors’ D League team to 2017 championship. Points out that Pascal Siakam and Fred Van Vleet both played for him on that team; Norman Powell also spent time in D League. Here’s hoping Zach Norvell keeps ballin, believing in and betting on himself and enjoys similar success as these three Raptors, all of whom are playing key roles in the NBA Finals right now.

Loved MileHigh’s post about feedback ZN got and why he actually made a great, well reasoned decision to stay in draft.

bartruff1
06-01-2019, 04:44 PM
Flex.....Good point on opportunities in the G League....but whenever I hear the name of Van Vleet , Baker or Early I hear the music from Jaws....

I believe both Van Vleet and Baker were undrafted.....now Fred is making 9 million a year....Ron nearly 5 million...

jazzdelmar
06-01-2019, 04:53 PM
Flex.....Good point on opportunities in the G League....but whenever I hear the name of Van Vleet , Baker or Early I hear the music from Jaws....

I believe both Van Vleet and Baker were undrafted.....now Fred is making 9 million a year....

Yes, the Shockers had their 15 minutes of CBB fame and, unfortunately, we played a small role.

webspinnre
06-01-2019, 07:06 PM
The pundits all have opinions on this stuff (including me and every one else on this board) but I do know that the NBA folks have told Norvell two things that are important:

Number 1 is that this years draft, particularly at the guard position, is considered weaker than next years. Number 2 is that the knock against him ( athleticism) and the things they like (NBA range quick release shooter) will not change regardless of whether or not he goes back to Gonzaga. No one has told him that improving his college stats (shooting %, turnovers, ppg)would have any bearing on where he would be drafted. Bottom line is that most have told him he is likely a 2nd round pick or free agent, whether he comes out this year or next.
Also, maybe (and this is just an educated guess) ZN is simply done, both mentally and emotionally, with college ball and college life in general. While fans often think college basketball is all fun and excitement, it is often a repetitive grind to college players and they tire of the academic part, the same coaches in their ears year after year, little $$ in their pocket, and all the other trappings of being a college student/ athlete

Personally, I want to see where(if) he gets drafted, where he ends up playing(NBA/Gleague/overseas), and how well he does before I form my opinion on whether he would have increased his chances at pro $$ by playing another year of college basketball

Excellent information, thank you.

MDABE80
06-01-2019, 07:39 PM
" No one has told him that improving his college stats (shooting %, turnovers, ppg)would have any bearing on where he would be drafted. Bottom line is that most have told him he is likely a 2nd round pick or free agent, whether he comes out this year or next. " Seriously?? SO if he goes from 37% to say 40-42%? That wouldn't help? Or if he improved something else..like ballhandling skills or some such....that wouldn't help him secure a better position next year? Didn't we hear his athleticism was near the bottom? Additional training can't help him with agility, speed or get another 3-4 in on vertical??

If he's beyond improvement, it sounds quite dismal....

Fonebone
06-01-2019, 09:13 PM
The pundits all have opinions on this stuff (including me and every one else on this board) but I do know that the NBA folks have told Norvell two things that are important:

Number 1 is that this years draft, particularly at the guard position, is considered weaker than next years. Number 2 is that the knock against him ( athleticism) and the things they like (NBA range quick release shooter) will not change regardless of whether or not he goes back to Gonzaga. No one has told him that improving his college stats (shooting %, turnovers, ppg)would have any bearing on where he would be drafted. Bottom line is that most have told him he is likely a 2nd round pick or free agent, whether he comes out this year or next.
Also, maybe (and this is just an educated guess) ZN is simply done, both mentally and emotionally, with college ball and college life in general. While fans often think college basketball is all fun and excitement, it is often a repetitive grind to college players and they tire of the academic part, the same coaches in their ears year after year, little $$ in their pocket, and all the other trappings of being a college student/ athlete

Personally, I want to see where(if) he gets drafted, where he ends up playing(NBA/Gleague/overseas), and how well he does before I form my opinion on whether he would have increased his chances at pro $$ by playing another year of college basketball

Mile, posts like yours are by far the best thing about this board for me. Especially the first part of your post. 99% of posts are mostly speculation and opinion, which is fine, thatís what most of us have to offer. But I read your post and my reaction is, ďok, I get it now. It makes total sense finally.Ē Thanks to you and a handful of others who do that on occasion.

I repeat, thatís not a criticism of the ďnormalĒ post, itís just that that kind of post is in a different league.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

kitzbuel
06-01-2019, 09:19 PM
" No one has told him that improving his college stats (shooting %, turnovers, ppg)would have any bearing on where he would be drafted. Bottom line is that most have told him he is likely a 2nd round pick or free agent, whether he comes out this year or next. " Seriously?? SO if he goes from 37% to say 40-42%? That wouldn't help? Or if he improved something else..like ballhandling skills or some such....that wouldn't help him secure a better position next year? Didn't we hear his athleticism was near the bottom? Additional training can't help him with agility, speed or get another 3-4 in on vertical??

If he's beyond improvement, it sounds quite dismal....
I think it might be the contrary, Abe. The facets of his game that he can improve can be improved better through full time professional training than through college ball. If a team believes he has the potential to improve enough to be attractive, they will take that deal. Zach is going to have to leverage that potential. He obviously thinks he can do that.

MDABE80
06-01-2019, 10:10 PM
I have my doubts but we'll see. Now that the G-league is paying $80 K or so, and if he just has school burnout, it may be best to move along. Honestly, outside of Coach's loyalty to returning players, we do have some very good guys who want to be here and get to a FF. Young kids just have different priorities these days. So much talent to fill his spot. I do think most on the board will be curious to see how ZN's career unfolds. OR if he gets better with stiffer competition. Right now, most of this is conjecture. He sure has a pretty LD shot. Summer leagues await.

B Wayne
06-02-2019, 10:56 AM
Flex.....Good point on opportunities in the G League....but whenever I hear the name of Van Vleet , Baker or Early I hear the music from Jaws....

I believe both Van Vleet and Baker were undrafted.....now Fred is making 9 million a year....Ron nearly 5 million...


And I hear people on this board after the 2013 Wichita State loss who argued that Gonzaga was clearly the better team and had better players than Wichita State and scoffed when I said Wichita State had players and a team every bit as good as the Zags.

I can't tell you how many times I hear fans of any team say "Yeah we lost, but we had the better team" and just can't accept maybe the other team was better. Also casual fans get blinded by a name like Wichita State and just figure their players aren't as good as a more recognized school like Gonzaga. But Wichita State had players that could just flat out play.

And it turns out...after 6 years the results are in...that Wichita State had 3 future NBA players including Van Vleet who is starting in the NBA finals tonight.

jazzdelmar
06-02-2019, 11:41 AM
Ok, but none as successful as KO has been. Two scrubs and a backup pg.



And I hear people on this board after the 2013 Wichita State loss who argued that Gonzaga was clearly the better team and had better players than Wichita State and scoffed when I said Wichita State had players and a team every bit as good as the Zags.

I can't tell you how many times I hear fans of any team say "Yeah we lost, but we had the better team" and just can't accept maybe the other team was better. Also casual fans get blinded by a name like Wichita State and just figure their players aren't as good as a more recognized school like Gonzaga. But Wichita State had players that could just flat out play.

And it turns out...after 6 years the results are in...that Wichita State had 3 future NBA players including Van Vleet who is starting in the NBA finals tonight.

maynard g krebs
06-02-2019, 11:50 AM
And I hear people on this board after the 2013 Wichita State loss who argued that Gonzaga was clearly the better team and had better players than Wichita State and scoffed when I said Wichita State had players and a team every bit as good as the Zags.

I can't tell you how many times I hear fans of any team say "Yeah we lost, but we had the better team" and just can't accept maybe the other team was better. Also casual fans get blinded by a name like Wichita State and just figure their players aren't as good as a more recognized school like Gonzaga. But Wichita State had players that could just flat out play.

And it turns out...after 6 years the results are in...that Wichita State had 3 future NBA players including Van Vleet who is starting in the NBA finals tonight.

One game doesn't necessarily determine who's the better team. That Wichita team was a terrible 3 pt shooting team; 2/20 in their opening game v Pitt, and around 30% overall. They got red hot v the Zags, esp after Bell went down. There are generally reasons why one team is a 1 seed and another is an 8/9. And occasionally, upsets happen.

B Wayne
06-02-2019, 12:09 PM
Ok, but none as successful as KO has been. Two scrubs and a backup pg.

Yes good point. But let's wait to see how Van Vleet's carrer goes.

B Wayne
06-02-2019, 12:09 PM
One game doesn't necessarily determine who's the better team. That Wichita team was a terrible 3 pt shooting team; 2/20 in their opening game v Pitt, and around 30% overall. They got red hot v the Zags, esp after Bell went down. There are generally reasons why one team is a 1 seed and another is an 8/9. And occasionally, upsets happen.

Also good points.

zagfan1
06-02-2019, 03:22 PM
Professional ball is pretty grueling. For a professional athlete there is no rest. If you are not working out or playing your studying the plays, the opponents, and analyzing your own metrics.

Alum08
06-02-2019, 04:42 PM
Professional ball is pretty grueling. For a professional athlete there is no rest. If you are not working out or playing your studying the plays, the opponents, and analyzing your own metrics.And getting $$$ to do so.

JPtheBeasta
06-02-2019, 04:46 PM
And getting $$$ to do so.

And no cramming for tests or all-nighter term papers.

LongIslandZagFan
06-03-2019, 01:08 PM
https://twitter.com/SeanCunningham/status/1135643200092135425

Really nice comments from Snacks.

ZagNative
06-03-2019, 01:25 PM
https://twitter.com/SeanCunningham/status/1135643200092135425

Really nice comments from Snacks.Thanks. Enjoyed Snacks interview, as always. Fingers crossed for him.

Reborn
06-03-2019, 04:08 PM
For me, it was really nice to hear from Josh Perkins. I truly believe he loved his teammates as if they were his brothers. Josh underwent so much as a player at Gonzaga beginning with the broken jaw his freshman year. He struggled because of that, but in my opinion overcame them. He was a great point guard for this team and helped lead them to the National Championship game against UNC two years ago, and I think two Elite 8's. Pretty good resume. I will really miss Josh. He is definitely Zag material, and I hope he inspires Tillie to have a great year and represent Gonzaga and be the leader the team will need next year. Good luck to both Josh and Zach.

amaronizag
06-03-2019, 08:50 PM
Classy and well put Reborn. I have always been a huge fan of Josh and Zach. Big shoes to fill next year. Very big shoes.

West Side Lady
06-04-2019, 06:44 PM
Perkins...end of an era. Going to miss seeing that guy.
And I don't like Norvell ieaving, though support him and hope he does great professionally. Wish him all the success in the world, just sad he won't be starring for Gonzaga next year.