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Radbooks
04-13-2019, 11:47 AM
I know there is a thread about this in the Whelping Box, but I also know that a lot of people don't go there. Anton and Brock are on the Washington team playing against Oregon all-state players. It is available to view online here:

https://www.northwestshootout.org/

Game is at 6:00 pm

SorenTodd45
04-13-2019, 02:50 PM
Thanks for the heads up; I'd rather watch this than the boring NBA first round.

Radbooks
04-13-2019, 03:45 PM
It's on YouTube too... so you should be able to watch it later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRFHtBYTm5A

Should be at the link above. Now I can watch it on my t.v.! :)

Therunner
04-13-2019, 05:19 PM
Brock get the start at PG for WA.

Anton does not get the start, nor has he made an appearance for them.

Oregon schooling them early on.

Therunner
04-13-2019, 05:22 PM
Watson comes in off the bench with UW down 4pts.

He immediately steals the ball, takes it full length of court for high flying dunk.

Next possession, swishes a 3 with a guy in his face.

WA then takes the lead.

Looks wayyyyy better than the dude that started in front of him

NEC26
04-13-2019, 05:33 PM
Watson looks like the best player on the floor. Ravet has had some nice passes and a nice cross over plus a three.

Therunner
04-13-2019, 05:34 PM
Watson scored a quick 13 or 14 pts off the bench in 1st half. A couple dunks.

Looks like the best overall player on the court. Just everywhere when he wants to be. More court presence than even MacDaniels

Also, passing, rebounding, stealing, etc...

The "back up" guards Campeu and Paulson out playing Ravet from a running the team standpoint, yet Ravet making some shots now.

Therunner
04-13-2019, 05:36 PM
Watson looks like the best player on the floor. Ravet has had some nice passes and a nice cross over plus a three.

Agreed but Ravet easily the sloppiest player so far. Have been defended taking ball to hoop, and been a bit rushed on offense.

Watson far and away the best utility type wing/big of any player, includes Jaden

Therunner
04-13-2019, 05:40 PM
If I'm picking my next team for pick up game while watching this one...

Watson is my 1st pick.

Ravet wouldn't be my 1st pick in my backcourt. The other guards look more in control and finish better this far.

Ravet made a 3 but missed a handful as well. Shots looking flat and doesn't have conviction in taking ball in the paint. Fouling guys too.

I thought Anton Watson shot looked the best of any player too....gorgeous arc. Just can do a little bit of everything.

Therunner
04-13-2019, 05:42 PM
Last 2 shots by Brock looked much better, in rhythm, flow, and better fundamentals.

The first couple looked pushed, out of sync.

Good to see him hearing up.

scrooner
04-13-2019, 05:42 PM
And just like that, back to back 3s for Brock.

White lightning
04-13-2019, 05:44 PM
Ravet heating up. I like how he pushes the ball off the inbound. He obviously has the skills running the offense.

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Therunner
04-13-2019, 05:52 PM
Ravet heating up. I like how he pushes the ball off the inbound. He obviously has the skills running the offense.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

We could have used him this year. Far and away better than Foster or Ayayi as backup options. Also, better PG skills than Geno right now.

Not near the defender or athlete but definitely PG skills. Lacks some quickness which allows his dribble drive game to be easily defended. He can run the show but can't get by guys. He CAN create space based on his moves and ball handling yet lacks quickness needed to be a high level defender and multi layered scorer. He will be a distributor, passer, shooter, but struggle with the speed of his opponents until he works at his speed and gets used to it.

Anton Watson facing a bit of fatigue at end of this long 1st half, yet looks like the best prospect of anyone.

McDaniels is Top 5, 5* player, yet Watson is every bit the player as him...different positions yet Watson more versatile and flies higher than Jaden on rebounds.

NEC26
04-13-2019, 05:56 PM
Watson had active hands on defense which I liked.

Birddog
04-13-2019, 06:02 PM
IMO Watson is best player on the floor. McDaniels is 2nd best. Watson is just smoother and looks to have a better feel for the game and pace.

Ravet's defense OK but he won't get away with this kind of play against D1 competition. His shot looks good but he has been a little careless.

White lightning
04-13-2019, 06:04 PM
There is something about Ravets game that tells me he's going to be high on the list with assists before his career at Gonzaga ends. He seems to shift gears with the ball in his hands. Always pushing it up not letting the defense get set. His teammates will love him. In high school Watson seemed to take plays off relying on his athleticism. He will be a beast after a little time with the other Zags players pushing him. I'm really excited about next season!!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

NEC26
04-13-2019, 06:09 PM
Mcdaniels having a monster second half. Follow dunk was pretty impressive.

scrooner
04-13-2019, 06:24 PM
Brock's brother Blake seems to be having a nice game too.....

:roll:

NEC26
04-13-2019, 06:32 PM
Mcdaniels is really good. Anton may not be quite as good as he is. Anton much more passive than he is.

seacatfan
04-13-2019, 06:41 PM
I'm surprised McDaniels is playing in this game. Seems like the really elite Oregon/Washington players (like McDonald's AA level) having been skipping this event for years. Cool that everybody is there.


My dad and I went to the first one (I think the second one as well but I'm getting too old and forgetting stuff). Saw players like Jason Terry, Michael Dickerson, Donald Watts, Matt Santangelo and Michael Doleac.

NEC26
04-13-2019, 06:43 PM
Mcdaniels is MVP of the game and it was deserved(had 25 points and 10 rebounds) his handle was impressive for a guy that is 6-10. Anton had 18 and Ravet had 12.

scrooner
04-13-2019, 06:43 PM
I know Watson has a 'casual' look to his play, but I wonder how hard he was really trying tonight. Seemed to be kind of chilling out on a number of plays.

Spink
04-13-2019, 06:47 PM
I know Watson has a 'casual' look to his play, but I wonder how hard he was really trying tonight. Seemed to be kind of chilling out on a number of plays.

seemed out of shape...or just enjoying himself :)

Birddog
04-13-2019, 06:47 PM
2nd half reassessment:
McDaniels clearly the best player,Watson 2nd best. Bajema very solid and Pollard (not even on roster) is Mr Hustle. Ravet has a sweet stroke from way downtown.

McDaniels amped it up in 2nd half while Watson played laid back. Who is this Pollard kid?

Birddog
04-13-2019, 06:50 PM
Was that Wazmix schlepping that camera gear around the court?

Mantua
04-13-2019, 06:51 PM
seemed out of shape...or just enjoying himself :)

He just returned from a trip to Hawaii with a bunch of classmates. (Instagram)

Stache
04-13-2019, 09:19 PM
I’ve seen Anton play since 8th grade. This board and Zag fans are going to need to prepare for his personality on the court. He is calm and poised. If you want physical expressions of extreme effort (ie, diving off the court etc) then you will be disappointed. Anton understands the game, exerts when it is necessary and effective, and does not exhibit emotion when it is not genuine. He has a smart, efficient, mature game and he will be a great Zag.

zagsfanforlife
04-13-2019, 10:24 PM
Anton will be a first round pick sooner than later.. you can tell how skilled he is. Needs to not take plays off though..although could be just because its an all star game.

Ravet will be a very good backup for GU for his career here-- something GU hasn't had in awhile. Cant imagine him beating out a suggs type or a Gilder or Ingram for PG duties. A bit of a chucker for a pg and some sloppy turnovers. I watched him in warm ups and his shot was pretty inconsistent even in warm ups.

And Heister and the gang sound like Marv Albert and Hubie brown compared to those jokers on the mic.

wazmix
04-14-2019, 02:22 AM
Was that Wazmix schlepping that camera gear around the court?

YEP !!!! Waz-SchlepRock was there !!!!!! (I don't always bring out the 300mm for hoops, but I thought I'd get some good dunks down the far end.)

(I started a separate thread with the Watson/Ravet pics, but here's the link again........)

LINK ON FLICKR : Watson/Ravet Subset (https://www.flickr.com/photos/wazmix/sets/72157706526972011)

http://i63.tinypic.com/iwkvvq.jpg

billbow47
04-14-2019, 04:01 AM
Have seen Watson play several times via video and he seems lackadaisical. Anyone else think Ravet looked a bit hobbled?

White lightning
04-14-2019, 04:06 AM
Have seen Watson play several times via video and he seems lackadaisical. Anyone else think Ravet looked a bit hobbled?I noticed that also. He seemed to have sore feet when walking. Did he play with long socks throughout his regular high school season?

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Birddog
04-14-2019, 04:38 AM
Have seen Watson play several times via video and he seems lackadaisical. Anyone else think Ravet looked a bit hobbled?

Ravet looked a little gimpy.

Watson will have to get a lot tougher (stronger) on rebounding and work under the iron. He was blocked several times. He's a good passer though.

jazzdelmar
04-14-2019, 04:49 AM
Lackadasical, gimpy, hobbled? Not very encouraging.

Hoopaholic
04-14-2019, 06:25 AM
Iíve seen Anton play since 8th grade. This board and Zag fans are going to need to prepare for his personality on the court. He is calm and poised. If you want physical expressions of extreme effort (ie, diving off the court etc) then you will be disappointed. Anton understands the game, exerts when it is necessary and effective, and does not exhibit emotion when it is not genuine. He has a smart, efficient, mature game and he will be a great Zag.

Jeremy jones esq

tyra
04-14-2019, 06:28 AM
I missed the first several minutes of the game but I was actually impressed/pleased with Brock’s ability to handle the ball and distribute. Add in his obvious ability to score and it seems like there is quite a bit to work with in terms of having a role.

zagsfanforlife
04-14-2019, 06:36 AM
Lackadasical, gimpy, hobbled? Not very encouraging.

"Lackadasical" in reference to Anton I think has to be taken in context. This was an all star game.. and while he may have a "laid back" demeanor, my guess is that once he gets to college and realizes that sometimes just going through the motions may not be to his best interest as he can not get away with it as much, there will be less episodes.

The main thing i took away from him is 1) he can absolutely play the 3.. good handle, great athleticism, very nice looking stroke. We are focusing on his demeanor, but skill wise he is a future NBA guy, and i don't think it will take him more than 3 years at most (maybe sooner). One drive he made, he crossed a guy at the top of the key, took one dribble and stuffed it. Kid has game. I am excited to see what he can do. First time seeing him.

Zagdawg
04-14-2019, 06:40 AM
https://247sports.com/college/gonzaga/Article/Gonzaga-Commits-Brock-Ravet-and-Anton-Watson-helped-lead-Washington-to-a-win-in-the-Northwest-Shootout--131189191/

Goshzagit
04-14-2019, 06:41 AM
Anton will be a first round pick sooner than later.. you can tell how skilled he is. Needs to not take plays off though..although could be just because its an all star game.

Ravet will be a very good backup for GU for his career here-- something GU hasn't had in awhile. Cant imagine him beating out a suggs type or a Gilder or Ingram for PG duties. A bit of a chucker for a pg and some sloppy turnovers. I watched him in warm ups and his shot was pretty inconsistent even in warm ups.

And Heister and the gang sound like Marv Albert and Hubie brown compared to those jokers on the mic.

You just named 3 players (Suggs, Ingram, Gilder) who have at least 7 different schools they are considering, some even more.

Ravet could be our only choice going forward.

That is a realistic outcome

amaronizag
04-14-2019, 08:20 AM
My exposure to Watson has been limited, but I agree with stache. Watson is very reserved and conservative in all aspects of his game and demeanor. He isn't a pedal to the metal, run wide open, seat of the pants kind of player. Yet. I expect to see that change somewhat after he puts on a Zag uniform, continues to mature, grows more confident, and slowly emerges from his shell.

Worthington
04-14-2019, 08:21 AM
I keep going back and forth between thinking that Ravet's lack of foot speed and athleticism will seriously hamper him at the next level, and thinking that his skill-set is so special that he can overcome it. At this point, I can't imagine him matching up with some of the high level athletic guards that we will have on the schedule. Makes me think that Ayayi has got to be above him in the rotation next year, simply for defensive purposes. Ravet has got his work cut out for him to improve on some of those weak areas, and I suspect he's up for the challenge.

wazmix
04-14-2019, 08:42 AM
"MINE".........

Link : SET (https://www.flickr.com/photos/wazmix/sets/72157706526972011)

http://i68.tinypic.com/35d9aua.jpg

zagsfanforlife
04-14-2019, 09:42 AM
You just named 3 players (Suggs, Ingram, Gilder) who have at least 7 different schools they are considering, some even more.

Ravet could be our only choice going forward.

That is a realistic outcome

I dont see Ravet starting at all next season. My opinion. Just cant imagine it.

JPtheBeasta
04-14-2019, 10:25 AM
I dont see Ravet starting at all next season. My opinion. Just cant imagine it.

If he doesn’t start, I’d hope for him that he could have a year like David Stockton had— when he played his way onto the floor and he got more and more minutes as the year went on.

MickMick
04-14-2019, 11:38 AM
Anyone remember the remarkable transformations of Sacre, Olynyk, and Pargo? You could even throw Perkins into that discussion as well.

I know that Duke/UK get more than their fair share of "plug n play/one year" guys, but you will also see accounts of their respective fans wishing for a healthy mix of 3-4 year players as well.

When it comes to player development, no one has done more with less than Mark Few. One could argue that Chuck Beard and Tony Bennett have only recently entered the scene as masters of player development. Izzo and Jay Wright have a similar track record over a longer period of time.

I suggest we wait for the finished products and understand that GU will typically encounter a single one year player (non transfer) in 2-3 year intervals. It is unfair to judge every recruit as if he was equivalent to a "one and done" player. It takes time for them to develop and that is part of the fun being a fan. Watching them grow. If they don't, they become the next Manny Arop or Grant Gibbs, and GU didn't skip a beat filling their shoes.

Mantua
04-14-2019, 12:28 PM
Anton was the high rebounder and was outstanding in the first half. I’d say that’s pretty good for an all star game. As for the second half mistakes, I felt like something else was going on with him, but I don’t care to jump to conclusions.

seacatfan
04-14-2019, 01:18 PM
One could argue that Chuck Beard and Tony Bennett have only recently entered the scene as masters of player development.



Only recently for Bennett? I strongly disagree. He's been doing it the entire time he's been a head coach. Look at what he did at Washington St. with a core group that weren't NBA level players (Baynes has been a journeyman and Weaver was in the League a few years, but the rest nada; he did have Klay but that was only 1 year before he left). And he's been going toe to toe w/ Duke and Carolina at Virginia w/ only a fraction of the talent either of those schools have. To me he's always been one of the best developers of talent and it's not debatable at all.

jazzdelmar
04-14-2019, 02:34 PM
No doubt Sea. TB’s the best w Jay and Few right behind.....Jay’s a superior in game coach however ....and gets slightly better kids.


Only recently for Bennett? I strongly disagree. He's been doing it the entire time he's been a head coach. Look at what he did at Washington St. with a core group that weren't NBA level players (Baynes has been a journeyman and Weaver was in the League a few years, but the rest nada; he did have Klay but that was only 1 year before he left). And he's been going toe to toe w/ Duke and Carolina at Virginia w/ only a fraction of the talent either of those schools have. To me he's always been one of the best developers of talent and it's not debatable at all.

LTownZag
04-14-2019, 02:52 PM
Jazz, SEA, CDC, or anyone else familiar with these guys:

Are coaches such as Bennett and Wright and Few "developing" their non-elite talent into elite college and pro guys who go on to outplay their expectations coming into the program?

Or are they designing/coaching/creating elite teams and annual team performance from their guys, who move on from the university and "revert"?

(either one of those is obviously a tremendous coaching accomplishment, but I think the first one is more about a permanent type of player development that would carry on to professional career - the 2nd one is more about making a whole which is greater than the sum of its parts. Like an inverse Duke...)

seacatfan
04-14-2019, 03:10 PM
Jazz, SEA, CDC, or anyone else familiar with these guys:

Are coaches such as Bennett and Wright and Few "developing" their non-elite talent into elite college and pro guys who go on to outplay their expectations coming into the program?

Or are they designing/coaching/creating elite teams and annual team performance from their guys, who move on from the university and "revert"?

(either one of those is obviously a tremendous coaching accomplishment, but I think the first one is more about a permanent type of player development that would carry on to professional career - the 2nd one is more about making a whole which is greater than the sum of its parts. Like an inverse Duke...)

At the risk of taking the easy way out, some of both probably?

Being a really good to great college player does not necessarily indicate anything about a player's future NBA potential. There was a conventional wisdom that you needed to have at least 2 future NBA guys to win a college National Championship. I think that's gone out the window a bit in recent years. Wright's second Championship team had a number of guys go pro (haven't followed how they've done) but the key players on his first Championship team were largely good college players but not NBA caliber (a few players were on both teams). I'm not sure how many of Virginia's players are NBA bound. Seems like they've turned out about 1 every year or 2 on average during Bennett's tenure.

Anyway, the named coaches routinely get guys to play above their rankings in college. That's probably a tribute both to development and a keen eye in recruiting. Some of those overachievers may take it all the way to NBA, but others don't.

maynard g krebs
04-14-2019, 05:44 PM
I keep going back and forth between thinking that Ravet's lack of foot speed and athleticism will seriously hamper him at the next level, and thinking that his skill-set is so special that he can overcome it. At this point, I can't imagine him matching up with some of the high level athletic guards that we will have on the schedule. Makes me think that Ayayi has got to be above him in the rotation next year, simply for defensive purposes. Ravet has got his work cut out for him to improve on some of those weak areas, and I suspect he's up for the challenge.

I've said it before, but this post suggests it bears repeating. When Dickau came out of hs, he said that he was advised more than once that he should play at the mid major level due to his lack of athleticism/size. I saw him play his entire fr year at UW, every home game in person, and Ravet is very similar at the same age imo.

jazzdelmar
04-14-2019, 07:02 PM
I've said it before, but this post suggests it bears repeating. When Dickau came out of hs, he said that he was advised more than once that he should play at the mid major level due to his lack of athleticism/size. I saw him play his entire fr year at UW, every home game in person, and Ravet is very similar at the same age imo.

Perhaps, but bigtime CBB has changed a whole lot since DD’s days.

LTownZag
04-14-2019, 07:07 PM
Perhaps, but bigtime CBB has changed a whole lot since DD’s days.

That's almost 20 years now. Are there any semi-current Ravet comparisons out there?

Who are the best "non-athletic" PGs in the last 1-4 seasons? (I don't mean athletic compared to the general population or even good high school athletes, but compared with the top 30 programs in D1 hoops - is there anyone in the mold of DD or (speculative) Ravet who has earned significant playing time recently? I know Cassius Winston at MSU can't dunk and is only 6'1", but I have no clue about him otherwise.

CDC84
04-14-2019, 09:02 PM
I didn't watch the game. Why? I have never been able to get an accurate assessment of any player besides Lebron James during a high school all star game.

The only thing that seems to make 100% sense to me is this. If you are the all-time leading high school scorer in the history of Washington state hoops, you are probably able to contribute in some capacity as a rotation player at Gonzaga at some juncture. I don't care what level the kid played at. There have just been too many great players roll thru this state over the years. But I still expect the staff to work hard as hell to land a high level grad transfer PG for the 2019/20 season.

When it comes to player development, I am not sure there is a better coaching staff in the nation at developing big guys than Gonzaga's. And they were great at it even before Donny arrived. What they did with Olynyk is unmatched. Ronny was an athlete and nothing else when he arrived at GU. Not sure the same can be said about guards. Obviously, Nigel improved during his redshirt year. He became a much better on ball defender. But you're also talking about a kid who was a McDonald's AA player to begin with. The staff, to some degree, were just shining a valuable stone. He didn't leave UW because he wasn't good. He just wanted to go to a place where he could win more. I think this is why the staff is aiming so high in the 2020 class when it comes to guards and wings. They want guys with a lot of natural talent. A kid to keep your eye on is five star Daishen Nix from Vegas. GU has a warm status with him. He is officially listed as a 6-5 PG, but he's really another combo guard like Suggs. I expect other names to emerge besides just Suggs, Nix and Strawther this spring and summer. And I still believe that people shouldn't be getting distraught because neither Suggs or Strawther committed to Gonzaga right after their official visit.

ZagWhoShotLibertyValance
04-14-2019, 09:27 PM
Wow, CDC rocking it with the Times New Roman!

CDC84
04-14-2019, 09:30 PM
It's actually Book Antiqua. Kind of like a new hairdo :)

willandi
04-15-2019, 07:01 AM
First off, I did not watch the entire game. I watched mostlythe first half.

I think that in a Zags uni, Watson will learn to both hustle back on defense and to go after loose balls, even diving on the floor. That is what it takes to succeed at high MBB in the NCAA. He will learn that, in my opinion.

Several of the TO's that I saw Brock make seemed to be due to playing with players that don't know each other, a player breaking back towards him and he expected a break to the basket so the ball went high and OB, or trying to force it to another player. I feel that many of those errors will not be there when playing with the same group on a consistent basis.
He will not need to be a prolific scorer, to start, but also needs to show that he can hurt if left open, not be afraid to take his shot. He sure didn't look that.

I expect great things out of both for the Zags. I also expect that, barring the transfer of a really high grade PG, Brock will start and share duties with Norvell.

ZagMan in Philly
04-15-2019, 11:14 AM
I really enjoyed this clip

Watch "Gonzaga commit Anton Watson with a #NWBanger at NWShootout" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/7-94YrqkQI8

maynard g krebs
04-15-2019, 12:48 PM
Perhaps, but bigtime CBB has changed a whole lot since DD’s days.

I suppose so, but what changes specifically do you mean, and what effect do you think they would have on the success of players like Dan or Brock?

And for clarity, I think Brock reaching Dan's level of success is a long shot, as it was for Dan; no one would have predicted it in 1998. Just saying there are similarities. And as someone mentioned in another thread, there's inside info that the coaches say he would have gotten minutes on the past season's team.

JPtheBeasta
04-15-2019, 04:34 PM
I watched the first half of the game and don't have anything new to add. I did like Ravet on offense. He shot the 3 effortlessly out to NBA-range and has a quick trigger. I don't think he'll have problems scoring. He also didn't look shy going to the hoop. Perkins was such a pass-first guy that teams dared him to drive and score, which is probably my biggest critique of Perkins' game. I don't think Ravet would have that problem if that floater falls with consistency. He does look slowish, like so many have said, but does appear to have good feel getting around screens and knowing what his guy wants to do/where his guy wants to go off the ball when trying to get open.

Watson looked really good. The game appears to come very easy for him in all facets. He is very fluid and he should continue what we are used to in his abilty to push the ball up the court a la Rui and Clarke. If he has a mid-range game he could be used very similarly to Rui. I do think he could get away with playing the 3.

soccerdud
04-15-2019, 11:11 PM
Norvelle.

still?

willandi
04-16-2019, 05:52 AM
still?

Sorry. Brain fart. I just had come home from PT.