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View Full Version : OFFICIAL GAME THREAD: NCAA TOURNEY, NATIONAL TITLE GAME, MONDAY, APRIL 8



CDC84
04-06-2019, 09:55 PM
6:20pm PT from Minneapolis, MN on CBS

(3) Texas Tech vs. (1) Virginia

Which team wins? And why (if you choose to explain)

ZagaZags
04-06-2019, 10:06 PM
(1) Gonzaga vs (1) Virginia would have looked so much better.

caduceus
04-07-2019, 01:52 AM
I know nobody's following the analytics anymore, but the Zags are #2 on KenPom (#1 offense, #12 defense). TeamRankings have them at #1. Barttorvik has them at #1 as well (#1 offense, #9 defense, #1 overall).

Too bad they ran into a bad matchup (or maybe a ref). The stats validate how strong the Zags were this year.

I'd love to see an analysis of the frequency of fouls called as you get closer to the final four. I sat through the TTech/MSU game keying on Tech's defensive play. "Foul... Foul. That's a foul. Another foul. That's not vertical...it's a foul." Over and over. Three-fourths through the game and a bunch of Tech's players all equally have 3 fouls. I wonder what the statistical probability of that is. Yeah, anyone who knows about random chance knows it is infinitesimally small.

Refs can and do change outcomes. Auburn could have easily been in the Final 2.

As someone who loves the rigid numbers and statistical validity of same in basketball, I think unquestionably the biggest problem with (college) basketball is the SUBJECTIVITY of referee calls (or maybe the rules are objective, but not called in that fashion during the game). It absolutely drives me nuts. There has to be a better way. When Few went completely nuts on that ref, you know he had very good reason. That almost never happens during the rest of the season (or even in his career).

Monday's outcome will be very interesting, and will very likely be dependent upon which zebras were selected for the game that makes the most money of the entire season. My prediction will be whistles swallowed. What that leads to, I'm not sure.

caduceus
04-07-2019, 02:23 AM
I'll add that on KenPom currently, Virginia is #1 and Texas Tech is #5 (Zags #2).

Interestingly, Barttorvik (whose algorithms are basically KenPom before the weird changes he made a couple years ago) has:

1. Zags .9745
2. Virginia .9726
3. TTech .9707

I'm inclined to go with Bart's T-Rank over KenPom these days. Either way, the numbers suggest a very close game.

I guess I'll root for the Raiders only because they faced (and beat) my favorite team, but honestly, the only next game that matters to me is the exhibition the Bulldogs play next fall. Yeah, beat Brewster Packing or whomever.

MJ777
04-07-2019, 06:40 AM
If TTU wins on Monday they will be the first school to win the championship in their first trip to the FF since UCONN in 99. Both beat Gonzaga in the West region championship game to get to the FF. I saw the part about TTU and UConn on ESPN last night but they didn’t make the GU connection.

In 2017 GU should have been the first since 99 to win in their first FF trip. Dang it.

CDC84
04-07-2019, 01:36 PM
What is absolutely amazing is the jump in offensive efficiency that Texas Tech made within season. It has to be close to record breaking in the Pomeroy era. I'm telling you, in early January, there were jokes being made about the Red Raiders during podcasts and such because of how BAD their offense was......that they simply couldn't score. The defense was always great, but so many people didn't trust them because they had so many problems getting the ball in the basket outside of Culver. They were ranked in the high 90's and at times in the low 100's. And then is just got better, and better, and better. While some of that could possibly be attributed to the Big 12 not being as strong as it usually is, it's still a power league with some pretty good defensive teams in it (Kansas State = #3; Kansas = #17; OU = #23; Texas = #25). But Beard made some amazing in-season adjustments to their offense, and clearly brought confidence out of some of his players.

BTW - Dixon is apparently out with UCLA. They couldn't get over the buyout thing. The LA Times is saying that Cronin is the next man in line, but what about Beard? Does he have a massive buyout at Tech? I doubt it. Then again, UCLA has humiliated itself so many times......does anyone of substance really wish to coach there? And BTW - how does AD Dan Guerrero still have a job. Not enough universities fail to understand that the source of their problems isn't their coaches, but the person who is hiring them.

Hoopaholic
04-07-2019, 03:03 PM
What is absolutely amazing is the jump in offensive efficiency that Texas Tech made within season. It has to be close to record breaking in the Pomeroy era. I'm telling you, in early January, there were jokes being made about the Red Raiders during podcasts and such because of how BAD their offense was......that they simply couldn't score. The defense was always great, but so many people didn't trust them because they had so many problems getting the ball in the basket outside of Culver. They were ranked in the high 90's and at times in the low 100's. And then is just got better, and better, and better. While some of that could possibly be attributed to the Big 12 not being as strong as it usually is, it's still a power league with some pretty good defensive teams in it (Kansas State = #3; Kansas = #17; OU = #23; Texas = #25). But Beard made some amazing in-season adjustments to their offense, and clearly brought confidence out of some of his players.

BTW - Dixon is apparently out with UCLA. They couldn't get over the buyout thing. The LA Times is saying that Cronin is the next man in line, but what about Beard? Does he have a massive buyout at Tech? I doubt it. Then again, UCLA has humiliated itself so many times......does anyone of substance really wish to coach there? And BTW - how does AD Dan Guerrero still have a job. Not enough universities fail to understand that the source of their problems isn't their coaches, but the person who is hiring them.

Beard is a fabulous coach but imo no way fits UCLA and their desires for a basketball team

Zagceo
04-07-2019, 03:11 PM
Beard is a fabulous coach but imo no way fits UCLA and their desires for a basketball team

winner?:lmao:

Hoopaholic
04-08-2019, 06:59 AM
Hoopaholics keys to the game and critical matchuips

Culver vs Hunter who gets the better of this matchup will determine the championship IMO

Secondarily: Mooney vs Clark will they isolate mooney to take advantage of post up play or will that get muddled with the Viriginia help defense...Can mooney find his shot over the top of the very short Clark
TT loses Clark by weakside baseline double downs and VIrginia finds him and he can hit shots could be a difference maker

Third: Owens and his mobility.key cog to the baseline force action on defense for TT

Fourth: Can someone shut down Guy and Jeromes shooting

Finally: Can Moretti find some and hit some open looks for TT

CDC84
04-08-2019, 07:36 AM
Beard is a fabulous coach but imo no way fits UCLA and their desires for a basketball team

Why so? On the surface I would agree, but their next target, Mick Cronin, has teams that routinely play at a pace that ranks over 300 at kenpom.com. As discussed many times, pace of play is very important to UCLA fans and boosters. Cincy, like Texas Tech, plays a defense first, physical brand of ball. Both Beard and Cronin seem the have similar personalities. Mick might be a little more hot-headed.

But Cronin has more experience, and I believe Cincy has made the tourney 8 years in a row (something around that - I think they rank 5th of all programs in consecutive tourney appearances). The other thing is that he has an outstanding and longstanding tradition of graduating players and avoiding scandal. Very important in the current climate, and especially after the Ball family nonsense. Plus, if Beard wins this title tonight, he might command, believe or not, more money. The situation at Cincy with Cronin is not good. They have not shown a long term commitment to him as their head coach. Despite their success, they seem indifferent to him as a head coach.

At this point, I don't feel we can rule anything out when it comes to UCLA and their crazy basketball coaching search. Any AD who spent his whole season trying to lure Calipari to Westwood when every college basketball pundit on the planet could've told Guerrero that it was never going to happen (that Cal was using it as leverage as a business man) is liable to do anything.

CDC84
04-08-2019, 07:44 AM
Back to the original topic......I am going with Texas Tech. Part of it is self serving. It will lessen the pain of losing to them if they win it all. Also, when it comes to UVA, they have lucked out so many times in this tourney.....at some point they aren't going to be able to pull another one out of their collective rear ends. I like how Texas Tech has beaten three straight teams with defensive efficiencies in the 20's. They have shown that they can score enough to win against defenses as stout as UVA's (Michigan State = #9; Gonzaga = #12; Michigan = #2). UVA has not faced a defense this whole tourney that is nearly as tough as Tech's.

Hoopaholic
04-08-2019, 08:41 AM
Why so? On the surface I would agree, but their next target, Mick Cronin, has teams that routinely play at a pace that ranks over 300 at kenpom.com. As discussed many times, pace of play is very important to UCLA fans and boosters. Cincy, like Texas Tech, plays a defense first, physical brand of ball. Both Beard and Cronin seem the have just about the same personality. Mick might be a little more hot-headed.

But Cronin has more experience, and I believe Cincy has made the tourney 8 years in a row. The other thing is that he has an outstanding and longstanding tradition of graduating players and avoiding scandal. Very important in the current climate, and especially after the Ball family nonsense. Plus, if Beard wins this title tonight, he might command, believe or not, more money. The situation at Cincy with Cronin is not good. They have not shown a long term commitment to him as their head coach. Despite their success, they seem indifferent to him as a head coach.

At this point, I don't feel we can rule anything out when it comes to UCLA and their crazy basketball coaching search. Any AD who spent his whole season trying to lure Calipari to Westwood when every college basketball pundit on the planet could've told that idiot Guerrero that it was never going to happen (that Cal was using it as leverage as a business man) is liable to do anything.

1. way to NEW in the coaching game, so his success could be construed as flash in pants and considering UCLA recent issues certain they would like to get long range plan in place
2. What 4 or 5 star "name" recognized recruit has he landed...the client and customers of UCLA demand high profile players and is one of the reasons Alford was let go
3. style of play, competing in Los Angeles the need for high flying, acrobatic, elite athleticism trumps team play, consistentency and team over individual....opposite of beards philosophy
4. not sold Beards personality would last in Los Angeles.....very energetic, very demanding, attention to details, keeps outside influences eliminated or minimal

but thats my view

JPtheBeasta
04-08-2019, 10:45 AM
I know nobody's following the analytics anymore, but the Zags are #2 on KenPom (#1 offense, #12 defense). TeamRankings have them at #1. Barttorvik has them at #1 as well (#1 offense, #9 defense, #1 overall).

Too bad they ran into a bad matchup (or maybe a ref). The stats validate how strong the Zags were this year.

I'd love to see an analysis of the frequency of fouls called as you get closer to the final four. I sat through the TTech/MSU game keying on Tech's defensive play. "Foul... Foul. That's a foul. Another foul. That's not vertical...it's a foul." Over and over. Three-fourths through the game and a bunch of Tech's players all equally have 3 fouls. I wonder what the statistical probability of that is. Yeah, anyone who knows about random chance knows it is infinitesimally small.

Refs can and do change outcomes. Auburn could have easily been in the Final 2.

As someone who loves the rigid numbers and statistical validity of same in basketball, I think unquestionably the biggest problem with (college) basketball is the SUBJECTIVITY of referee calls (or maybe the rules are objective, but not called in that fashion during the game). It absolutely drives me nuts. There has to be a better way. When Few went completely nuts on that ref, you know he had very good reason. That almost never happens during the rest of the season (or even in his career).

Monday's outcome will be very interesting, and will very likely be dependent upon which zebras were selected for the game that makes the most money of the entire season. My prediction will be whistles swallowed. What that leads to, I'm not sure.

I mentioned it in another thread, but the Few argument with the ref was uncomfortable to watch. He was so close to the guy, yelling, eye-to-eye-- it reminded me of a boxing or MMA weigh-in. I've never seen that before.

JPtheBeasta
04-08-2019, 10:49 AM
USA Today opinion piece about this matchup not being the best basketball to watch due to the "hack-and-hold" style of defense:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2019/04/07/final-four-texas-tech-virginia-title-game-not-best-college-basketball/3395124002/

To be fair. Virginia was one of the least penalized teams in the college as far as personal fouls go going into the tournament. Bennett coaches his guys to play good positional defense without fouling (read: hacking, slapping, reaching). They pack it in the lane and close out very well on shooters. I have become somewhat of a Mooney fan, but will be rooting for Virginia. I like their brand of basketball better.

For fun (or not...), go check out the MSU message boards. They had similar concerns about the way TT plays ball that some of us here did. Sigh...

maynard g krebs
04-08-2019, 11:27 AM
I won't be watching. I am hoping for a scoreless tie after 24 overtimes, with the game called at 3 AM. Didn't read Wolken's whole story, but agree w/ his premise. Hate, hate, hate this kind of basketball. I wound up sort of instinctively rooting for Auburn in spite of Pearl, just because they're enjoyable to watch.

Nova last year was a joy to watch as they ran thru the tourney. Hopefully this travesty of a title game leads to changes that open up the game.

JPtheBeasta
04-08-2019, 11:42 AM
I won't be watching. I am hoping for a scoreless tie after 24 overtimes, with the game called at 3 AM. Didn't read Wolken's whole story, but agree w/ his premise. Hate, hate, hate this kind of basketball. I wound up sort of instinctively rooting for Auburn in spite of Pearl, just because they're enjoyable to watch.

Nova last year was a joy to watch as they ran thru the tourney. Hopefully this travesty of a title game leads to changes that open up the game.

So much for the "freedom of movement" they gave lip service to at the beginning of the season. I like the idea of calling defensive 3 in the key, as was mentioned in the article, to open things up a bit.

DixieZag
04-08-2019, 11:48 AM
I mentioned it in another thread, but the Few argument with the ref was uncomfortable to watch. He was so close to the guy, yelling, eye-to-eye-- it reminded me of a boxing or MMA weigh-in. I've never seen that before.

Yeah, it wasn't Few's best "look" but I did love the fact that he really knew that the game was riding on the fact they could turn us over with impunity bc they just leveled us inside without fear of a whistle.

In years past, I've been frustrated that Few was - in my hardly professional opinion - far too deferential to the refs, and as he's now become associated with the "Hall of Fame" types of coaches, he's earned the right to give them a piece of his mind as someone who never made their name on it, largely avoided it.

Plus, every once in a while, it can propel a team out of a slump to just go poo-flinging monkey insane on the sidelines, get a technical protecting your guys, have your assistants carrying you back to the bench, coat flying into the stands, and suddenly the team feels like "Coach has our backs! We gotta have coach's back!"

It's not right, it's immature, and I sure wouldn't want it to be a regular thing, but maybe once a year, might be a good thing, human psychology being what it is.

sittingon50
04-08-2019, 11:52 AM
We have 2 pools going in our office.

One of our Department Heads has Virginia in one pool & Texas Tech in the other.

She's walking around with a big grin on her face today.

Ezag
04-08-2019, 12:42 PM
I am hoping for a final score in the low 30s like 34-32 and an agonizingly slow game

CDC84
04-08-2019, 02:29 PM
TSN with their game analysis and pick. Like me, they are going with Texas Tech:

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/virginia-vs-texas-tech-picks-predictions-for-national-championship-game/11u5spbxpb3ze1iv9ry4qu06rm

willandi
04-08-2019, 04:02 PM
Mariners are on at 5.

There's a basketball game?

sittingon50
04-08-2019, 04:09 PM
Yeah, the Mariners got some #'s of their own goin' on.

229SintoZag
04-08-2019, 04:31 PM
I am pulling for Virginia. I want the story to be that the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 seed one year can battle back and win it all the next.

Thrill of victory. Agony of defeat. Etc and so forth.


I just think it will be cool for those kids to come back from that sort of dejection and win it all.

Goshzagit
04-08-2019, 04:36 PM
Tariq Owens has been Texas tech wizard at protecting the rim, blocking shots, & rebounding.

He had 9, 7, & 4 blks vs GU. Had 2 key defensive stops vs Rui at the end of our game, and even flew over Clarke for some tough tip ins and rebs.

Heard he is around 50% today and 'very sore'. Rolled his ankle vs MSU.

Tech interior defense not nearly as intimidating or effective without him.

If he is liimited, Virginia could take advantage.

If he were fully healthy, I'd pick Tech no doubt.

Tariq Owens was their MVP in numerous games this season, including vs us as Tech had ZERO answer inside without him.

pcm541
04-08-2019, 04:43 PM
I think Texas Tech is a bit overvalued due to this hot stretch they're on. Facts are Owens was in a boot all day and I can't imagine he's full strength tonight. Virginia thrives in games like these.

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 05:20 PM
part of the luck ....Virginia doesn't get Owens @ 100%

Virginia wins

jayray
04-08-2019, 05:27 PM
This game and these teams are bad for college. It is like watching a soccer game points are so rare.

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 05:29 PM
throwing the ball at the rim as the shot clock expires is a strategy?

my defense is better than yours

jayray
04-08-2019, 05:32 PM
Wow, a basket finally. At this rate the score will end what, 25-26?

pcm541
04-08-2019, 05:34 PM
Texas Tech looks totally outclassed.

jayray
04-08-2019, 05:34 PM
Beard freaks out and calls timeout when his team goes down 6! 6 is like 20 in this game.

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 05:37 PM
Va pleasure to watch. Reminder, Zags were 4 pt favorites over TT. Too soon?

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 05:38 PM
7:30 into game and Tech makes first basket

Hoopaholic
04-08-2019, 06:04 PM
Texas Tech looks totally outclassed.

Really?

pcm541
04-08-2019, 06:09 PM
Really?

Yeah. They did look outclassed at the time I posted that. At the time I posted that they had made one basket in the first 10 minutes of the game.

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 06:09 PM
Hard to pick who’s more overrated, Culver or Hunter. UVa a 2 man team, everyone else is the chorus.

Hoopaholic
04-08-2019, 06:11 PM
Yeah. They did look outclassed at the time I posted that. At the time I posted that they had made one basket in the first 10 minutes of the game.

But its a 40 minute game. They settled their nerves

Hoopaholic
04-08-2019, 06:12 PM
Hard to pick whos more overrated, Culver or Hunter. UVa a 2 man team, everyone else is the chorus.

Agree. I have t seen where or why all the praise as to being lottery picks. We shut culver down and so did state

JPtheBeasta
04-08-2019, 06:22 PM
I took the over in this game. I thought that there was no way that the NCAA would let this be a slog. How’d this end up being the highest scoring half in this Final Four with these two teams at the helm?? College basketball is turning into a farce.

pcm541
04-08-2019, 06:24 PM
It's really a shame with how good we have been historically in utilizing our bigs, that we couldn't find a way to exploit a Texas Tech team that insists on switching everything. We had two bigs who will be taken in the first round of the draft and couldn't find a way to get it done. We should be playing in this game.

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 06:27 PM
It's really a shame with how good we have been historically in utilizing our bigs, that we couldn't find a way to exploit a Texas Tech team that insists on switching everything. We had two bigs who will be taken in the first round of the draft and couldn't find a way to get it done. We should be playing in this game.

They just out toughed us, man to man. Coach to coach. Nothing to do w talent or size. Plus we had a player who would not stop missing.

Hoopaholic
04-08-2019, 06:28 PM
I took the over in this game. I thought that there was no way that the NCAA would let this be a slog. Howd this end up being the highest scoring half in this Final Four with these two teams at the helm?? College basketball is turning into a farce.
Exceptional team defense 5 working as one is the long standing foundation of basketball
I think it is a thing of beauty transition defense picture perfect. Half court defense exceptional with very few breakdowns
And the best thing is no isolation or one on one basketball. For that go to the farce of a basketball game and watch nba

I am truly enjoying the picture perfect TEAM efforts. All working for each ither

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 06:29 PM
so do those claiming Tech fouls too much see this game the same as Zag game? over active hands too many fouls not being called?

katman50
04-08-2019, 06:29 PM
They just out toughed us, man to man. Coach to coach. Nothing to do w talent or size. Plus we had a player who would not stop missing.

That pretty much sums it up. Time to move on.

pcm541
04-08-2019, 06:34 PM
Culver is a total fraud. I imagine this is excruciating for Tech fans to watch.

RenoZag
04-08-2019, 06:49 PM
Its excruciating to watch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

willandi
04-08-2019, 06:51 PM
so do those claiming Tech fouls too much see this game the same as Zag game? over active hands too many fouls not being called?

I'm not watching. Are they still slapping and hacking?

jayray
04-08-2019, 06:51 PM
At least it is turning into somewhat of a game. That first 10 minutes looked bad, if it wasn't the championship game I would have turned it off.

pcm541
04-08-2019, 06:53 PM
At least it is turning into somewhat of a game. That first 10 minutes looked bad, if it wasn't the championship game I would have turned it off.

Not really. Virginia has 7 turnovers. And they're shooting 50% for the game and 52% from the 3-point line. They don't look phased or bothered at all. We were just too soft.

jayray
04-08-2019, 06:54 PM
Yeah. They did look outclassed at the time I posted that. At the time I posted that they had made one basket in the first 10 minutes of the game.

They are starting to look outclassed again. It feels like lucky shooting helps them stay in the game that is about it. Really for both of these teams it has been a lucky tournament. Luck plays such a huge part.

katman50
04-08-2019, 06:56 PM
Thus far Tech with only 6 turnovers. Virginia with 8. The Zags had 16 against Tech. Can't win that way.

pcm541
04-08-2019, 06:58 PM
They are starting to look outclassed again. It feels like lucky shooting helps them stay in the game that is about it. Really for both of these teams it has been a lucky tournament. Luck plays such a huge part.


The only reason it is even remotely close is because two guys who average 5 points per game came off the bench and hit that flurry of 3's in the first half to contribute 21 points. Tech's starters are 9 for 29. This is a total beatdown.

MJ777
04-08-2019, 07:00 PM
I'm not watching. Are they still slapping and hacking?

Some, but they are having fouls called on them enough to make them think. Well see what refs allow the last 8 minutes.

pcm541
04-08-2019, 07:01 PM
Tech bench keeping them afloat. This is truly an incredible performance by Francis and Edwards. Virginia has an answer for everything though.

Goshzagit
04-08-2019, 07:02 PM
They are starting to look outclassed again. It feels like lucky shooting helps them stay in the game that is about it. Really for both of these teams it has been a lucky tournament. Luck plays such a huge part.

That's the thing. As I posted numerous times before our game vs Tech.

They weren't burying teams because of Culver, its been the timely 3pt shooting of Morretti (mostly) and Mooney.

That is/was the key.

We were helping and sharing Culver when Moretti sunk those 3's at the end.

Texas Tech was an above average 3pt shooting team. Not great
But they had those two guys hitting shot after shot.

Culver showed up big on many box scores, but it was their 3pt shooting which carried them in big games all season long.

I posted 2 or 3 times how Moretti was their X factor and biggest asset to beating teams which out matched them.

Morretti and Mooney played the same role and won the games vs Zags and MSU.

Virginia just more conviction in playing confidently and focused.

Tech bench playing well vs Virginia but they don't have a chance unless Virginia let's those two hit shots

willandi
04-08-2019, 07:02 PM
Some, but they are having fouls called on them enough to make them think. We’ll see what refs allow the last 8 minutes.

Thanks.

MJ777
04-08-2019, 07:03 PM
Tie up? How about a foul?

jayray
04-08-2019, 07:03 PM
Owens out. Not good for TT. Hunter playing a great game.

Hoopaholic
04-08-2019, 07:05 PM
Tie up? How about a foul?

No lie had his entire bicep no ball

Radbooks
04-08-2019, 07:05 PM
I'm finding this a very entertaining game. I'm rooting for Virginia because I like the coach, but it's just a well played game.

Goshzagit
04-08-2019, 07:06 PM
Owens out. Not good for TT. Hunter playing a great game.

Didn't look like the same player.

He played yet wasn't flying around, blocking shots, dunking as he did all tourney long.

A factor for sure, as Virginia Korea confident taking it to the hole.

Hoopaholic
04-08-2019, 07:07 PM
That's the thing. As I posted numerous times before our game vs Tech.

They weren't burying teams because of Culver, its been the timely 3pt shooting of Morretti (mostly) and Mooney.

That is/was the key.

We were helping and sharing Culver when Moretti sunk those 3's at the end.

Texas Tech was an above average 3pt shooting team. Not great
But they had those two guys hitting shot after shot.

Culver showed up big on many box scores, but it was their 3pt shooting which carried them in big games all season long.

I posted 2 or 3 times how Moretti was their X factor and biggest asset to beating teams which out matched them.

Morretti and Mooney played the same role and won the games vs Zags and MSU.

Virginia just more conviction in playing confidently and focused.

Tech bench playing well vs Virginia but they don't have a chance unless Virginia let's those two hit shots

Been Francis and Edwards hitting three ball tonight. Dont think Mooney has a single three all yet

pcm541
04-08-2019, 07:07 PM
Tech's starters are 10/30 with 28 points

Same group who shot 45% against us for 61 points

MJ777
04-08-2019, 07:07 PM
I'm finding this a very entertaining game. I'm rooting for Virginia because I like the coach, but it's just a well played game.

I think it’s a fun game. Refs are doing well. I’m pulling for UVA too. I just can’t pull for Tech.

jayray
04-08-2019, 07:09 PM
I'm finding this a very entertaining game. I'm rooting for Virginia because I like the coach, but it's just a well played game.

Turning out to be a good game. Parts of it were pretty bad.

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 07:09 PM
Announcing dummies clearly pro TT. Wonder why? Dook jerk Hill called Culver a great player.

Hoopaholic
04-08-2019, 07:10 PM
Mooney with a huge tough shot

MJ777
04-08-2019, 07:11 PM
I might have jinxed them. They will need to out tough TTU if they want the win. They need to get into their offense sooner. Clarke is doing little.

Hoopaholic
04-08-2019, 07:12 PM
1 point game with 4 to go. Anyones ballgame

Who can execute down stretch

Why VA go away from hunter in block. He was killing it with moves or pass out open looks

pcm541
04-08-2019, 07:12 PM
Maybe it is just me but i feel Tech has played terrible yet they find themselves down 1 with 3 min left

This is why I've never been sold on Virginia's style of play. You can play a near perfect game and just like that its a one possession game

Kong-Kool-Aid
04-08-2019, 07:14 PM
TT not getting away with as many blatant hacks as they did against us.

pcm541
04-08-2019, 07:17 PM
It's like Culver is trying to lose

Hoopaholic
04-08-2019, 07:18 PM
Maybe it is just me but i feel Tech has played terrible yet they find themselves down 1 with 3 min left

This is why I've never been sold on Virginia's style of play. You can play a near perfect game and just like that its a one possession game

UVA was up double figures twice. I think TT toughness and will to crawl back in been difference

MJ777
04-08-2019, 07:19 PM
TT not getting away with as many blatant hacks as they did against us.

Except that last shot attempt.

Ezag
04-08-2019, 07:19 PM
Entertaining game so far

Hoopaholic
04-08-2019, 07:20 PM
Except that last shot attempt.

That block follow thru was completely against arm

MJ777
04-08-2019, 07:23 PM
UVA went to uber stall ball too early.

CDC84
04-08-2019, 07:23 PM
Man that is a pro move by Culver against a first rate individual defender who is also going to be a lottery pick.

jayray
04-08-2019, 07:26 PM
What the heck just happened?

jayray
04-08-2019, 07:26 PM
The inbounds catcher clearly had the ball when they tried to call a timeout.

pcm541
04-08-2019, 07:27 PM
How do you pull up for 3 with 5 seconds left?

CDC84
04-08-2019, 07:27 PM
Hunter with the response!! Unreal. And Culver, man, why the guarded three?? You're a lottery pick. Drive that son of a gun.

Hoopaholic
04-08-2019, 07:27 PM
The inbounds catcher clearly had the ball when they tried to call a timeout.

Absolutely another blown call

MJ777
04-08-2019, 07:27 PM
I guess it will be Karma if UVA loses last second after a play like that.

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 07:29 PM
Fun Game

MJ777
04-08-2019, 07:30 PM
Yes haw OT.

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 07:30 PM
Culver stinks. 5-19. But grant is in love with him

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 07:30 PM
defense gets OT

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 07:31 PM
Culver stinks.

yeah but his dad got the best name

Alum08
04-08-2019, 07:32 PM
Absolutely ridiculous that people on the east coast will have to stay up past midnight on a Monday night to watch one of the biggest American sporting events of the year.

Kong-Kool-Aid
04-08-2019, 07:33 PM
I do think if we could have gotten by TT, we'd have beaten Michigan state and handled this Virginia team handily.


But maybe I just like making myself feel better.

CDC84
04-08-2019, 07:34 PM
On to OT, but man, Culver, you've got to drive that ball into the lane to create something for your teammates, try to get fouled, anything. All you need is a point in that situation. I don't get why these kids launch these contested 3's. Not everyone is Steph Curry!!

Kong-Kool-Aid
04-08-2019, 07:34 PM
Culver stinks. 5-19. But grant is in love with him

Top 5 NBA pick this year, he's having a tough game but hardly stinks. lol

jayray
04-08-2019, 07:36 PM
Hunter is money.

CDC84
04-08-2019, 07:38 PM
Mooney is SO good with those fall away jumpers. And also keeping his pivot in traffic. It allows him to get out of difficult situations. And that fall away jumper cannot be blocked by the big dudes.

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 07:40 PM
Absolutely ridiculous that people on the east coast will have to stay up past midnight on a Monday night to watch one of the biggest American sporting events of the year.

my first concern.......







not

pcm541
04-08-2019, 07:40 PM
Culver lost Tech the game.

MJ777
04-08-2019, 07:41 PM
Good call on the out of bounds but Maretti got fouled before that.

willandi
04-08-2019, 07:43 PM
Good call on the out of bounds but Maretti got fouled before that.

Isn't slapping and hacking allowed?

MJ777
04-08-2019, 07:43 PM
Culver lost Tech the game.


I hate to blame 1 guy but it’s true.

willandi
04-08-2019, 07:43 PM
watching the OT

Alum08
04-08-2019, 07:43 PM
Culver looks like Austin Daye 2.0 to me.

ZagZombie
04-08-2019, 07:44 PM
Virginia sure had some lucky breaks in this tournament

MJ777
04-08-2019, 07:44 PM
Good call on taking the over.

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 07:45 PM
Top 5 NBA pick this year, he's having a tough game but hardly stinks. lol

Weak draft. He’s channeling Chux.

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 07:46 PM
Mooney is SO good with those fall away jumpers. And also keeping his pivot in traffic. It allows him to get out of difficult situations. And that fall away jumper cannot be blocked by the big dudes.

Should have taken last shot instead of Mr All American.

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 07:46 PM
Culver looks like Austin Daye 2.0 to me.


Same motor. None.

MJ777
04-08-2019, 07:47 PM
Virginia sure had some lucky breaks in this tournament

The luck for this game was Owens injury and Culver’s shot selection.

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 07:48 PM
who thought UVA could score 85

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 07:49 PM
good 4 Tony

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 07:49 PM
Good guys win. Ty was 16-8-9.

ZagHouse
04-08-2019, 07:49 PM
How can Owens get away with nails that long?

sittingon50
04-08-2019, 07:49 PM
Virginia students rush their court. Let's see the NCAA levy a heavy fine!!

CDC84
04-08-2019, 07:53 PM
THIS PROVES THAT COLLEGE BASKETBALL AND MARCH MADNESS IS THE CRAZIEST SPORTING EVENT ON EARTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE FIRST TEAM TO EVER LOSE TO A 16 SEED COMES BACK THE FOLLOWING SEASON TO WIN THE NATIONAL TITLE. INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!

ANYONE WHO SAYS GONZAGA IS OVERRATED AND WORTHLESS AS A PROGRAM BECAUSE THEY DROPPED SOME SECOND ROUND GAME NEEDS TO GET THEIR HEAD EXAMINED!!!!!

UNREAL. I mean, I know UVA was a number one seed, and the field opened up due to various upsets, but this just demonstrates that when you feel that your program is at its lowest point, and that the dream is over, REPLAY THIS GAME. There is always a chance and an opportunity to make up for your NCAA tournament sins.

Birddog
04-08-2019, 07:54 PM
Did I just watch 45 mins of NCAA Tournament basketball without seeing a single fast break basket?

Alum08
04-08-2019, 07:56 PM
That game was reffed beautifully. Would've loved to have had those refs in 2017.

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 07:56 PM
good for Virginia

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 07:57 PM
good for Virginia!

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 07:58 PM
Virginia was dumped on last year

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 07:58 PM
love TONY!

CDC84
04-08-2019, 07:59 PM
Did I just watch 45 mins of NCAA Tournament basketball without seeing a single fast break basket?

You saw history. CBS was claiming that no one has even won a national title while playing at the pace these two teams play at and certainly played at during this game. I don't know how they can gauge that. I suppose Pomeroy, but he's only been in the biz for so many years, and we've only had a shot clock for so many years..........

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 07:59 PM
LOVE TONY!

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 08:01 PM
can't believe Zag fans have nothing to say on this forum..

CDC84
04-08-2019, 08:02 PM
This game also showed how crucial Hunter was to UVA's operation last year. Granted they had zero business losing to UMBC in the 1st round. And not only losing, but being destroyed.

CDC84
04-08-2019, 08:03 PM
Tony is all class, and it would have been great if he could've stayed at WSU forever. But he knew there were better horizons.

Radbooks
04-08-2019, 08:06 PM
So glad for Tony and Virginia. It was a great game to watch.

RenoZag
04-08-2019, 08:07 PM
can't believe Zag fans have nothing to say on this forum..

Why ? Looks like a lot of folks participated in this thread. . .

And why should Zag fans give a rip ?
Zags stopped dancing last week



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 08:08 PM
can't believe Zag fans have nothing to say on this forum..

Me and you both. Appalling actually. Rather talk about shoulda been here.

CDC84
04-08-2019, 08:08 PM
And please let this be a warning to kids all over. When you are the stud of the team, and a projected lottery selection, you do not pull up, Steph Curry-style, for a contested long range jumper when all your team needs to win a basketball game is a single point. There are too many college basketball players, or for that matter, high school players, who are not understanding that a 23 foot jumper is a lower percentage shot than taking it to the rim where you can not only score, but create easy shots for your teammates, and also give your teammates a better chance at an offensive rebound. You can also get fouled. I hate to say it, but Culver ended up on a "what not to do" highlight reel while the possession before he showed what you should do.

MJ777
04-08-2019, 08:08 PM
That game was reffed beautifully. Would've loved to have had those refs in 2017.

Or in the 2019 E8.

MJ777
04-08-2019, 08:10 PM
Me and you both. Appalling actually. Rather talk about shoulda been here.


I’m happy for TB and his players. Congrats to them. Great game.

Hoopaholic
04-08-2019, 08:11 PM
Im happy for TB and his players. Congrats to them. Great game.

Exactly

Goshzagit
04-08-2019, 08:12 PM
And just think Virginia won 2 games in OT (Elite 8 & Championship), and their Final 4 semi game by 1pt on a miraculous type finish...not to mention a 4pt game vs Oregon in S16.

To win the Championship so much must work in your favor. Coaching in crunch time and final minutes huge...which Coach Few still perfecting

sylean
04-08-2019, 08:12 PM
yes, I am happy for him and his father......

Zagceo
04-08-2019, 08:13 PM
Beard says good future fathers in that locker room.......NICE comment...never heard that before

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 08:14 PM
Beard was terrific.

gonzagafan62
04-08-2019, 08:14 PM
Me and you both. Appalling actually. Rather talk about shoulda been here.

Been done already. Nothing to talk about till grad transfers and recruits commit or announce decisions. Talking about shoulda been was beaten already imo haha

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 08:14 PM
And just think Virginia won 2 games in OT (Elite 8 & Championship), and their Final 4 semi game by 1pt on a miraculous type finish...not to mention a 4pt game vs Oregon in S16.

To win the Championship so much must work in your favor. Coaching in crunch time and final minutes huge...which Coach Few still perfecting

Ya think?

MJ777
04-08-2019, 08:18 PM
Beard says good future fathers in that locker room.......NICE comment...never heard that before

His team never quit and maybe should have won the game. He seems like a good guy.

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 08:19 PM
One shining moment. Did Duke win?

CDC84
04-08-2019, 08:20 PM
Boy the NCAA knows how to milk it. "The official net cutting ladders of the NCAA."

MJ777
04-08-2019, 08:21 PM
One shining moment. Did Duke win?

They tied for 5th with a Few other teams.

jayray
04-08-2019, 08:22 PM
One shining moment. Did Duke win?

Zion won, all by himself.

CDC84
04-08-2019, 08:23 PM
And Virginia NCAA title gear is already available. While the Texas Tech gear is being sent to Africa as we speak (absolutely true - there have many, many, many people spotted in Africa with championship gear from teams who lost in the NCAA men's basketball national title game. There are some people in Africa who adorn Gonzaga NCAA title t-shirts and such)

CDC84
04-08-2019, 08:24 PM
Zion won, all by himself.

LoL

JPtheBeasta
04-08-2019, 08:24 PM
Exceptional team defense 5 working as one is the long standing foundation of basketball
I think it is a thing of beauty transition defense picture perfect. Half court defense exceptional with very few breakdowns
And the best thing is no isolation or one on one basketball. For that go to the farce of a basketball game and watch nba

I am truly enjoying the picture perfect TEAM efforts. All working for each ither

Entertaining game. I dont disagree with you about this game. The refs called fouls when they were fouls for the most part and, unsurprisingly, the game looked less like a rugby match.

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 08:25 PM
Zion won, all by himself.

The video would have you believe that. Pathetic cbs.

MJ777
04-08-2019, 08:26 PM
Where was BC’s put back slam vs FSU? Now that was a shining moment.

jazzdelmar
04-08-2019, 08:28 PM
Where was BC’s put back slam vs FSU? Now that was a shining moment.

All I saw for an E8 team was Few's handstand. Lazy editing by CBS. But enough Zion to choke a horse.

JPtheBeasta
04-08-2019, 08:29 PM
It’s ironic that a pivotal play was a turnover in OT when the Texas Texh player was hit on the arm, causing him to lose his dribble, then a referee review changed the out of bounds call to give the ball to Virginia.

MJ777
04-08-2019, 08:35 PM
It’s ironic that a pivotal play was turnover in OT when the Texas Texh player was hit on the arm, causing him to lose his dribble, then a referee review changed the out of bounds call to give the ball to Virginia.

I’m sure Coach Few is distraught for TTU.

seacatfan
04-08-2019, 08:42 PM
Congrats to Bennett and the Cavs, really happy to see him get a Championship. Surprising the number of points put up in this game, never mind it being OT. Figured this would be in the low 50's, not high 60's.

CDC84
04-08-2019, 08:47 PM
But enough Zion to choke a horse.

LoL

rennis
04-08-2019, 08:53 PM
Much better game than I was expecting. Thankfully. Congrats to the Cavaliers. That means only one Blue Blood has won this thing in the past 4 years. I like that.

Now we just gotta get a non power conference team on that podium. Aka GU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jayray
04-08-2019, 08:58 PM
Where was BC’s put back slam vs FSU? Now that was a shining moment.

I think the GU fan in the crowd with his hands on his stunned face was the reaction to that dunk maybe??

FuManShoes
04-08-2019, 09:16 PM
And please let this be a warning to kids all over. When you are the stud of the team, and a projected lottery selection, you do not pull up, Steph Curry-style, for a contested long range jumper when all your team needs to win a basketball game is a single point. There are too many college basketball players, or for that matter, high school players, who are not understanding that a 23 foot jumper is a lower percentage shot than taking it to the rim where you can not only score, but create easy shots for your teammates, and also give your teammates a better chance at an offensive rebound. You can also get fouled. I hate to say it, but Culver ended up on a "what not to do" highlight reel while the possession before he showed what you should do.

Pretty spot on. That shot was a terrible decision and changed everything. They had a bunch of ways to pull a W if he'd taken it to the rim. Feels like we never saw the real Culver, or maybe we did. He's got potential, but he's not MJ just yet. Grr.

Also, and I hate to say it, but I don't think the Zags could beat Virginia tonight or in a series. They're too clutch with the clock winding down and seem to relish it. Jerome, Hunter, Gay, Diakinte - all ballers. They should have lost well before reaching the title game, and probably should have lost this one but for Culver's hero ball, but found a way to win and make clutch shots and stops when Tech could not. Not a high octane offense, but a very efficient one.

GrizZAG
04-08-2019, 10:39 PM
Virginia made their shots when it counted, and especially from the line. Our shots were not falling going into the stretch.

ZagsGoZags
04-09-2019, 02:36 AM
my take away from this game is that with the way the NCAA game is presently structured, and called, defense oriented teams have the edge,
also top D1 teams will consider defenses like the two we have seen, and the 'handsi-ness" of TTU is to a considerable degree a focus of the program, not just quick athletes, and I don't know why other teams would not go for this themselves

my other take away is the TexasT and UV had players that showed up and made big play after big play in total crunch time.
and I will admit UV pulled victory out of the jaws of defeat in the amazing way, very similar to Calvary's tip in 2000, for its previous two games, and this may color my thinking. If any of you get the chance to view the last 3 minutes of Virginia's Final Four and Elite 8 games [if you haven't already], you will see that either of these games would have gone down in legendary lore in Zag Nation. I am sure it will go down as legendary lore among the Cav fans. I don't know to what we should attribute the many, many big plays in the crisis of the last two minutes. Individual focus, and how much credit should go to coaches and program? I can't answer.
the only zag I can compare to rising over and over again to make big plays on the biggest stage is Ammo.

jazzdelmar
04-09-2019, 03:57 AM
This familiar and now totally accepted mantra that “you have to have pros” to win the thing, that was shot down, wasn’t it? How many pros in the game? Two and a half, maybe. Hunter, yes; Culver, probably; Jerome/Guy, maybe. GU had more on its own roster. Take that to the cliche store, for a refund.

As for that great Cav backcourt, Guy and Jerome were 4 stars; Guy was a McD, however; Kihei Clark was a 3 star.

TexasZagFan
04-09-2019, 05:34 AM
This familiar and now totally accepted mantra that “you have to have pros” to win the thing, that was shot down, wasn’t it? How many pros in the game? Two and a half, maybe. Hunter, yes; Culver, probably; Jerome/Guy, maybe. GU had more on its own roster. Take that to the cliche store, for a refund.

As for that great Cav backcourt, Guy and Jerome were 4 stars; Guy was a McD, however; Kihei Clark was a 3 star.

You can also dump in the trashcan the concept of "freedom of movement." It's a ruse, talked about in November, with quite a few calls made. Once P6 conference play began, whistles were swallowed, and "freedom of movement" was shelved.

bartruff1
04-09-2019, 07:29 AM
can't believe Zag fans have nothing to say on this forum..

Can't speak for others ….but for me the negativity after a loss, especially the season ending loss is annoying …. finger pointing and blaming the coaches, the players, the officials ….. who likes whining.. ???

As soon as people get over it...... and realize what a terrific season it was …….and start focusing on the future......more fans will post...

Birddog
04-09-2019, 08:21 AM
You can also dump in the trashcan the concept of "freedom of movement." It's a ruse, talked about in November, with quite a few calls made. Once P6 conference play began, whistles were swallowed, and "freedom of movement" was shelved.

Many would disagree, to wit, how about one Zion Williamson and his "freedom of movement", just ask CFU about it.

Zagceo
04-09-2019, 08:53 AM
You can also dump in the trashcan the concept of "freedom of movement." It's a ruse, talked about in November, with quite a few calls made. Once P6 conference play began, whistles were swallowed, and "freedom of movement" was shelved.

new era defense in basketball...remember when football coaches started practicing stripping the ball on defense...its now a basketball thing.

watch guards practice holding the ball like a football tucked under armpit when driving to the hoop to prevent stripping.

jazzdelmar
04-09-2019, 10:22 AM
Pat Riley thug BB has come to the NCAA...

GonzaGAW
04-09-2019, 11:09 AM
- my two cents worth, from a fan who was pulling for texas tech
1. culver pull up 3 pointer, poor decision, should have taken the ball to the rim, make shot or hope for a foul
2. culver left hunter 100% completely open (easy pass) and open (no defensive pressure), for why?????????? to close out on the dribble drive, when one he was two dribbles too late, and so what if the uva player made a layin, you still have the lead and the ball with 18 seconds left. the defensive mantra at that point had to be protect the 3 point line, no easy open 3 point shots can be allowed. (discipline, it is hard to learn and apply)

- culver is going to have a hard time shaking these thoughts off, but I wish him well.

- agree with prior post, Virginia played very well, made clutch shots and plays...all through the tournament. not just championship game. well done Virginia.

gonstu
04-09-2019, 11:51 AM
- my two cents worth, from a fan who was pulling for texas tech
1. culver pull up 3 pointer, poor decision, should have taken the ball to the rim, make shot or hope for a foul
2. culver left hunter 100% completely open (easy pass) and open (no defensive pressure), for why?????????? to close out on the dribble drive, when one he was two dribbles too late, and so what if the uva player made a layin, you still have the lead and the ball with 18 seconds left. the defensive mantra at that point had to be protect the 3 point line, no easy open 3 point shots can be allowed. (discipline, it is hard to learn and apply)

- culver is going to have a hard time shaking these thoughts off, but I wish him well.

- agree with prior post, Virginia played very well, made clutch shots and plays...all through the tournament. not just championship game. well done Virginia.

This is it for me. Sure, lots of individual plays throughout the game. But as UVA was bringing the ball up the court on this possession, I'm thinking - just don't allow a 3 and you are in control of the game for the last 15 seconds. Risky decision that ended up not paying off and possibly cost TT a national championship.

TexasZagFan
04-09-2019, 12:52 PM
This is it for me. Sure, lots of individual plays throughout the game. But as UVA was bringing the ball up the court on this possession, I'm thinking - just don't allow a 3 and you are in control of the game for the last 15 seconds. Risky decision that ended up not paying off and possibly cost TT a national championship.

With the depth and talent we'll have in the front court next year, staying at home and guarding the three should be a focal point of our defense. IMO, with our offense, we'll never get beat by another team making 2's. It's always the 3 ball that seems to be our downfall.

Let the big guys protect the rim, while the perimeter defenders gravitate towards those open beyond the arc.

CDC84
04-09-2019, 02:28 PM
This familiar and now totally accepted mantra that “you have to have pros” to win the thing, that was shot down, wasn’t it? How many pros in the game? Two and a half, maybe. Hunter, yes; Culver, probably; Jerome/Guy, maybe. GU had more on its own roster. Take that to the cliche store, for a refund.

As for that great Cav backcourt, Guy and Jerome were 4 stars; Guy was a McD, however; Kihei Clark was a 3 star.

I agree and disagree with you on this jazzer.

What's happened is that CBS and ESPN (in order to have something to hype), as well as several analysts, have hugely exaggerated the amount of NBA players, 5 star players, etc., that you need on your team in order to win the national title. People have gotten seduced by these Calipari and Coach K type teams that are filled with one and done freshmen who have little to zero experience around them. They have also lost sight of the value of having upperclassmen who the coach and program developed into NBA players. Like, say, Maryland's Juan Dixon, my all-time favorite college basketball player. Or in the case of Gonzaga, say, Kelly Olynyk.

However, the truth remains that no one has won a national championship since 1987 without having a single first round pick. And of course that 1987 Indiana team was also coached by Bob Knight, who, like him or not, could make a rec league player perform like a first team AA at the final four.

Also, since the McDonald's game started, only two teams have won the national title without having at least one McDonald's AA player. UConn (in a severely down college basketball season) and Maryland under Gary Williams (who developed several pros, including Dixon). Maryland also had the advantage of being in the final 4 the previous season. They wanted revenge. It's no secret that the 2017 Gonzaga team, which came within a whisker of winning it all against a very talented UNC team (better than either of last night's teams), had two Burger Boys in Nigel and Zach Collins. Zach became a lottery pick and it looks like JWIII is carving out a niche for himself in the NBA. And Nigel was an elite dynamic point guard (critical to deep tourney success in most years and cases). I still say he's a NBA player, regardless of what the stupid scouts think. Karno has more wins that any player in D1 history. And if Tillie can ever prove that he can stay healthy, he too will be in the NBA. His game is perfect for the modern game.

So I still strongly believe that teams who possess 2 or 3 NBA players (especially two first rounders) have a much greater chance of winning the title than their less talented counterparts. History has proven it. Go back 30 years. There will always be an exception or two, but I believe in going with what has been proven to work over time. Gonzaga should be pursuing as much high end talent as possible. Fortunately for them, the players they do get tend to stick around for the most part.

But the people who feel you need to have a Calicrapi type roster in order to win the dance have clearly been disproven. They've overinflated the amount of NBA talent that you must have, and again, have denied the value of having upperclassmen who became pros through the process of college basketball development.

jazzdelmar
04-09-2019, 04:19 PM
CD, all I see is agreement, no disagreement.