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former1dog
04-02-2019, 08:49 AM
Everyone I have talked to that I trust, including a few with connections to the coaching staff, have told me that Brock Ravet has an extremely high basketball IQ. That his offensive skills and vision are next level. That he isn't just a scorer, but a facilitator with great ball handling skills who can throw laser sharp passes.

No one says he is a good defender. In fact everyone acknowledges that this is a weakness in his game.

I talked to a former D1 basketball player who was known for his defensive prowess and shooting about this problem. I asked him, can a player improve drastically as a defender. The answer was an unqualified yes! He told me defense was mostly about desire and hard work. He said that often athletic limitations can be overcome with smart positioning and determination on defense.

The coaches aren't stupid. They understand this is a problem. Brock Ravet and his high school coach, who also happens to be his Dad, aren't stupid. They understand this is a problem. They have 6 months to work on it until practice starts. I have no doubt that is what they are doing.

If Ravet becomes an adequate defender over the next 6 months, he just might be the starting point guard for the 2019-20 season.

LongIslandZagFan
04-02-2019, 08:57 AM
Question is whether Foster can step up. If he can't Zags are perilously thin at the 1 even AFTER Dominic gets there.

gueastcoast
04-02-2019, 09:00 AM
If Foster can't step up, is Snacks a serviceable backup PG? His handles seem to have regressed late-season but we saw flashes earlier in the year. Clearly something he needs to work on.

SorenTodd45
04-02-2019, 09:01 AM
As soon as they market a Brock t-shirt, I'm all over it. And I don't think he is anything close to a one-and-done. I'm just glad we nabbed him instead of UW.

bartruff1
04-02-2019, 09:05 AM
The only freshman point guard that started all four years that I can think of was Pangos ??? Some have said he is another Pangos....if he is..... I will buy your boys a new Brock shirt every year...

ZagMan in Philly
04-02-2019, 09:05 AM
I am really pulling for Brock....
I just posted in the Whelping Box, a potential Grad transfer point guard from Philly...he is tough and a hard nose player from St. Joe's. Love his game.

sheps001
04-02-2019, 09:31 AM
Yeah, what about a (grad) transfer point guard??. We poached Nigel Williams Goss as a transfer and look what it got us. Has anyone heard anything about a transfer point guard and where we stand on this???

former1dog
04-02-2019, 09:34 AM
Yeah, what about a (grad) transfer point guard??. We poached Nigel Williams Goss as a transfer and look what it got us. Has anyone heard anything about a transfer point guard and where we stand on this???

There is an entire thread about it in the Whelping Box

http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?64067-Potential-Grad-transfer-thread&p=1456190#post1456190

Goshzagit
04-02-2019, 09:40 AM
Feels like we need a 195-200lb PG.

A player who can play through contact, fight around a defender or arm defense, and play physically aggressive in crunch time.

This has hurt us in tight games vs top teams. Or been taken advantage of and challenged.

Geno was 155lbs, Perkins around 175lbs.

Both great players but both lacked strength.

We can have a finesse guy out there yet his backup or side kick needs to be able to sustain contact and play on.

Missing ingredient last 2 seasons imho.

Zack is a big guard with some weight yet rarely uses it to his advantage, could be so much better if he drove the ball than purely a 30' 3pt shooter...

Good news is a ton of strong, thick guards on the grad transfer market.

We have shown interest and been listed by (3) of them. No coincidence. We need some power in the backcourt, especially when refs swallow their whistles in post season play.

JAGzag
04-02-2019, 09:55 AM
I think what we missed most this year, over the 2017 squad was a slasher. Then we had NWG that could get in the lane and finish. As much as I love Perks, he wasn't that type of player. Even the broadcasters made reference during the TTU game that teams were challenging him to make plays. NWG's floater was a thing of beauty. Who's that player next year? Snacks showed some promise and even Kispert during inferior competition drove to the basket.

Mr Vulture
04-02-2019, 09:59 AM
I think what we missed most this year, over the 2017 squad was a slasher. Then we had NWG that could get in the lane and finish. As much as I love Perks, he wasn't that type of player. Even the broadcasters made reference during the TTU game that teams were challenging him to make plays. NWG's floater was a thing of beauty. Who's that player next year? Snacks showed some promise and even Kispert during inferior competition drove to the basket.

If Norvell works on what I think is his biggest weakness, his handle, I think he could really improve his game by adding that slashing element. I think Kispert could be a guy that could get the rim more and I think he will work on that part of his game this offseason. Both need to be more consistent from the outside as well, but both have the ability.

bartruff1
04-02-2019, 10:01 AM
No offense intended...but I am curious to see Brock and Jesse play against each other …..I have no idea who will shine.....it is just a interesting matchup given their history in high school and at Gonzaga..

Mr Vulture
04-02-2019, 10:04 AM
No offense intended...but I am curious to see Brock and Jesse play against each other …..I have no idea who will shine.....it is just a interesting matchup given their history in high school and at Gonzaga..

I don't see much similarity in their games at all. Wade was, and is, an outside shooter with limited PG skills. Ravet is an outside shooter, but also a facilitator that had an ability to attack the rim at the HS level.

bartruff1
04-02-2019, 10:12 AM
I don't see much similarity in their games at all. Wade was, and is, an outside shooter with limited PG skills. Ravet is an outside shooter, but also a facilitator that had an ability to attack the rim at the HS level.

Since they were both highly touted point guards from small high schools.... are of a similar size.... that were early recruits by Gonzaga ….whether they drive or shoot or both..... is irrelevant to me.....I am curious to see if they succeed at this level.....

sittingon50
04-02-2019, 10:14 AM
The only freshman point guard that started all four years that I can think of was Pangos ??? Some have said he is another Pangos....if he is..... I will buy your boys a new Brock shirt every year...

Blake Stepp (but we're talking 6'4 & used interchangeably with Dickau).

Matt Santangelo (but RS'ed 1st yr. on campus).

bartruff1
04-02-2019, 10:17 AM
Blake Stepp (but we're talking 6'4 & used interchangeably with Dickau).

Matt Santangelo (but RS'ed 1st yr. on campus).

Thanks....I didn't know that....or I forgot and that is troubling....it has been a while ago, so that is reassuring ….a little...I should have said true freshman....like Kevin...a wholesome 18 year old.....kid.....

Mr Vulture
04-02-2019, 10:25 AM
Since they were both highly touted point guards from small high schools.... are of a similar size.... that were early recruits by Gonzaga ….whether they drive or shoot or both..... is irrelevant to me.....I am curious to see if they succeed at this level.....

Ok..seemed like you thought they were similar type players. My bad.

jazzdelmar
04-02-2019, 11:31 AM
No offense intended...but I am curious to see Brock and Jesse play against each other Ö..I have no idea who will shine.....it is just a interesting matchup given their history in high school and at Gonzaga..

Battle of the Lilliputians. They'll need a smaller court.

JPtheBeasta
04-02-2019, 11:55 AM
One thing about playing defense when you are there heart and soul of your team’s offense is that you just don’t take many risks on the defensive end because you need to be in the game.

Zagceo
04-02-2019, 12:31 PM
best tap the brakes on expectations for any freshmen point guard.

better to undersell and overdeliver.

caldwellzag
04-02-2019, 12:51 PM
Brock will be given a shot and he is good. He shined on the AAU circuit and has potential to be great here. Just understand that Gonzaga will be active on the grad transfer market and that is to give Brock time to adjust to the next level.

CDC84
04-02-2019, 01:14 PM
100% certain we will have grad transfer PG next year with Brock seeing some action here and there. Few is going to want experience at that position.

zagdontzig
04-02-2019, 01:28 PM
Am I the only crazy person who thought Zach Norvell demonstrated serviceable court vision?

surfmonkey89
04-02-2019, 01:36 PM
Unless he is the answer to the question of “Who was rushed into a starting role well before his time, because we had no other serviceable option?”, I’m not sure I agree with this.

ZagMan in Philly
04-02-2019, 02:03 PM
100% certain we will have grad transfer PG next year with Brock seeing some action here and there. Few is going to want experience at that position.

This past season for Nova, they had a 5 star true point guard freshman, Jahvon Quinerly looked to be in line to take over as the starting point guard with Jalen Brunson leaving early for the NBA Draft, and he couldn't do it, and barely got on the court. So yes, it is not easy to throw a true freshman out there.

Hogan
04-02-2019, 02:20 PM
Hope you are right,dog, but I’m dubious. We all know how important good defense is from all positions. He must have know his defense was a problem, so why didn’t it improve over last year? And please, let’s not say he was focusing on offense cause that is what his team needed. If he can’t play hard at both ends that is a whole other problem. Nor are saving his fouls a good excuse. At least play hard defense until you pick up a couple. At the level he was playing at he should be able to play good defense without fouling. He certainly has some strengths, and I hope I am wrong.

bartruff1
04-02-2019, 02:26 PM
Am I the only crazy person who thought Zach Norvell demonstrated serviceable court vision?

Zack is a Ferrari....not sure he wants to be a Van.....and haul everyone around...

229SintoZag
04-02-2019, 02:47 PM
Call me a Brock skeptic. I have seen all the videos and highlights and the descriptions of his game. He can shoot I will give him that. He can pass some too, but even here I don't see him as on the level of Perkins and certainly not someone like Bouldin.

But at this point he lacks quickness, foot speed, and D-1 level strength, and he does not appear to have quick hands on defense like the kind we saw from Texas Tech.

I think the staff has had an epiphany in recent years that defense is as important as offense, and we cannot have anyone who is a significant defensive liability on the floor. Elite D-1 guards will routinely leave Brock with broken ankles or with his shorts on the floor and I am not sure any amount of drills or strength and conditioning is going to fix that, and certainly not in the next six months.

I would love to see him come and shine and I would love to eat my words in this post in a few years, but I see a lot more of Jesse Wade and (at best) Raivio in Brock than I see of Pangos or Williams-Goss.

I hope I am wrong but fear I am right. Time will tell.

Meanwhile I would like to buy some graduate transfer insurance please Alex.....

maynard g krebs
04-02-2019, 02:53 PM
Based on what I saw in Kent in January, I agree w/ the OP. I saw Adam at Mead all 4 days of the state tourney, and Dan D his first exhibition game at UW. I got the same feeling watching Ravet as I did those guys, neither of whom were noted for defense. IMO he's that gifted an offensive player. I saw Raivio a couple of times in high level hs games, and Brock's offensive game is better imo; closer to Dan's at that age. Raivio was quicker/faster. Jesse Wade was just an undersized jump shooter, and I see no basis of comparison to BR.

I think he can improve on defense because he has a nose for the ball. It should be noted that against 4a Kentlake, who had a couple of pretty athletic 6'4 kids, he pulled down 13 rebounds. That tells me something about his competitiveness.

In the first quarter he threw a couple of 3/4 or full court passes that got picked off by leaping defenders. I thought that happened because he was accustomed to throwing those over class B defenders with ease. After those two, he threw those long passes about 3 more times, all successful. He processed what happened and made an immediate adjustment.

His passing is spectacular; quick, accurate, on time, hits guys in stride, and seems to catch defenders by surprise.

Ladyzag12
04-02-2019, 02:54 PM
Call me a Brock skeptic. I have seen all the videos and highlights and the descriptions of his game. He can shoot I will give him that. He can pass some too, but even here I don't see him as on the level of Perkins and certainly not someone like Bouldin.

But at this point he lacks quickness, foot speed, and D-1 level strength, and he does not appear to have quick hands on defense like the kind we saw from Texas Tech.

I think the staff has had an epiphany in recent years that defense is as important as offense, and we cannot have anyone who is a significant defensive liability on the floor. Elite D-1 guards will routinely leave Brock with broken ankles or with his shorts on the floor and I am not sure any amount of drills or strength and conditioning is going to fix that, and certainly not in the next six months.

I would love to see him come and shine and I would love to eat my words in this post in a few years, but I see a lot more of Jesse Wade and (at best) Raivio in Brock than I see of Pangos or Williams-Goss.

I hope I am wrong but fear I am right. Time will tell.

Meanwhile I would like to buy some graduate transfer insurance please Alex.....

I have watched some of his clips from the UAA and he is a fine defender. He doen't have great physical tools, but you don't necessarily need elite physical tools to be a competent defender at the college level. I do not think people should expect Brock to be much of a contributor next year. I definitely see him being a key portion of future zag teams, but he doesn't have to be the guy from day one. I honestly do not remember Pangos being an exceptional defender. He didn't have much length and was not much of a steals guy. He was crazy strong for his height though.

CDC84
04-02-2019, 04:06 PM
Here's the other thing. Brock can really, really score from distance. It would be nice to have him play off the ball some.

Also, and this no knock on Brock (sorry).....he is making a big jump from his level of WA state basketball to play at Gonzaga. There will be freshman growing pains....and maybe a few more growing pains for him specifically as he adjusts to the competition level. Like Pendo, the guy is obviously very gifted and is going to be a fine Zag, but he has not faced the same level of competition that some of the new players have. You don't want to put too much pressure on him.

Fully expect a combo guard type grad transfer. The question is, how good of quality will he be?? With the team not being as good as some recent GU teams due to its youth, can Few and Co. do a big time sales job to bring in a big time talent?

cjm720
04-02-2019, 04:12 PM
I like what I’ve seen of Brock and expect him to contribute in year one. Pangos pretty much did it with a young back court mate in G Bell, so I’m thinking coach likes where he is st. I’m also thinking there’s no way we don’t try to bring in guards to help. I expect at least two transfer with one being able to help and play a lot immediately. We certainly will need it! Perkins has big shoes to fill.

CdAZagFan
04-02-2019, 04:22 PM
I loved NWG's ability (with Few's play calling) to post up his guy - it was such a luxury to be able to post up your big men and your guard.

229SintoZag
04-02-2019, 04:25 PM
Here's the other thing. Brock can really, really score from distance. It would be nice to have him play off the ball some.

Also, and this no knock on Brock (sorry).....he is making a big jump from his level of WA state basketball to play at Gonzaga. There will be freshman growing pains....and maybe a few more growing pains for him specifically as he adjusts to the competition level. Like Pendo, the guy is obviously very gifted and is going to be a fine Zag, but he has not faced the same level of competition that some of the new players have. You don't want to put too much pressure on him.

Fully expect a combo guard type grad transfer. The question is, how good of quality will he be?? With the team not being as good as some recent GU teams due to its youth, can Few and Co. do a big time sales job to bring in a big time talent?

Let's hope so. I doubt that we all appreciate a problem that the staff has somehow overlooked, and given the track record I have faith that it will happen. It's a different world now with the grad transfer rule but it is key to get it right.

DixieZag
04-02-2019, 05:39 PM
Also, and this no knock on Brock (sorry).....he is making a big jump from his level of WA state basketball to play at Gonzaga. There will be freshman growing pains....and maybe a few more growing pains for him specifically as he adjusts to ?

It is probably only fair to Brock to mention that it really wouldn't matter if he was a five star, 6'5 recruit from De La Salle, the jump straight into a true frosh pg at Gonzaga would be a major jump requiring a ton of growing pains.

There's a reason we beat Duke.

willandi
04-02-2019, 06:15 PM
I loved NWG's ability (with Few's play calling) to post up his guy - it was such a luxury to be able to post up your big men and your guard.

True, but he was a RS Junior while here.

MickMick
04-02-2019, 06:38 PM
I have had negative feedback for this but Iím sticking to my Rotnei Clark comparison. Actually a huge compliment. Rotnei practiced 300 three point shots per day.

I think Brock is a scorer more than anything. I could picture him as a shooting guard with combo skills.

ZagsObserver
04-02-2019, 06:44 PM
I have had negative feedback for this but I’m sticking to my Rotnei Clark comparison. Actually a huge compliment. Rotnei practiced 300 three point shots per day.

I think Brock is a scorer more than anything. I could picture him as a shooting guard with combo skills.

I think that’s fair. He has definite pg skills at his level, but against high level length and athleticism a rotnei comparison might be fair.

Shooter
04-02-2019, 07:43 PM
I'm hoping he's Pangos but scared he's Ryan Floyd.

White lightning
04-02-2019, 08:09 PM
"Battle of the Lilliputians. They'll need a smaller court."

Mr Delmar

This is one of many posts I've read where you feel it's ok to belittle others.

I don't know you personally and I'm probably fortunate. Right or wrong I feel it's time to respond.

Maybe in your world it's ok to look down upon others not in mine. I grew up in one of these small towns like Mr ravet, where everyone knows each other and people care about each other. Local sports are huge in the community and we support all of the kids knowing most will never play after high school

. It takes a very special athlete to be considered by a div 1 college program. Especially one from such a small school.

Possibly you've played Gonzaga basketball , I'm guessing not from your comments, Mr Ravet will!!

He made the team. Gonzags offered him a spot and he said yes. He's Zag.

Based on his play making ability, his winning attitude, and his hard work. Not his dimensions.

You and others should respect this young man, along with Mr Wade, the other butt of your joke, who has moved on respectfully. We support them both no matter if they fulfill "your" standards or not.

We are talking about young men who have dreamed their whole lives of becoming college basketball players.....and they did. Only time will tell what level of success they reach.

Please give Mr Ravet a chance before you poke fun at him.

I would be ashamed if I posted the garbage you did about innocent youngmen trying to fulfilled their dreams !!!

A simple Gonzaga fan Brianhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190403/df0a7e627e192fce640c5f4bb60755c0.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

LTownZag
04-02-2019, 08:21 PM
Please give Mr Ravet a chance before you poke fun at him.

A simple Gonzaga fan Brian

Better yet, don't ever poke fun at amateur athletes and teenage kids.

Critique the on-court results of their games, lobby for different lineups, but leave personal slights out of it.


Nice post, Brian. I fully agree

willandi
04-02-2019, 08:34 PM
"Battle of the Lilliputians. They'll need a smaller court."

Mr Delmar

This is one of many posts I've read where you feel it's ok to belittle others.

I don't know you personally and I'm probably fortunate. Right or wrong I feel it's time to respond.

Maybe in your world it's ok to look down upon others not in mine. I grew up in one of these small towns like Mr ravet, where everyone knows each other and people care about each other. Local sports are huge in the community and we support all of the kids knowing most will never play after high school

. It takes a very special athlete to be considered by a div 1 college program. Especially one from such a small school.

Possibly you've played Gonzaga basketball , I'm guessing not from your comments, Mr Ravet will!!

He made the team. Gonzags offered him a spot and he said yes. He's Zag.

Based on his play making ability, his winning attitude, and his hard work. Not his dimensions.

You and others should respect this young man, along with Mr Wade, the other butt of your joke, who has moved on respectfully. We support them both no matter if they fulfill "your" standards or not.

We are talking about young men who have dreamed their whole lives of becoming college basketball players.....and they did. Only time will tell what level of success they reach.

Please give Mr Ravet a chance before you poke fun at him.

I would be ashamed if I posted the garbage you did about innocent youngmen trying to fulfilled their dreams !!!

A simple Gonzaga fan Brianhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190403/df0a7e627e192fce640c5f4bb60755c0.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Better yet, don't ever poke fun at amateur athletes and teenage kids.

Critique the on-court results of their games, lobby for different lineups, but leave personal slights out of it.


Nice post, Brian. I fully agree

Sometimes I wish there was a simple 'like' button as on FB.

I agree.

zag buddy
04-02-2019, 08:57 PM
tx white lighting, my feelings exactly.

ZagWhoShotLibertyValance
04-03-2019, 07:55 AM
I guess we actually don't like a sense of humour here.

Ugh. I like the way Jazz writes, and have discovered him to be one of the four or five best posters on this board. I enjoy his commentary and find that he cuts through the nonsense with simple one liners that enrage people. Good. I find most of the criticisms of his writing to be, well, lilliputian. I have heard the same joke made by Don Cherry when the Bruins had a really small lineup on the ice; Its not an insult to the player. Unless you think being short is bad? Cuz I don't think being short is bad. Hell, we could use Muggsy Bogues next year . . . Gosh, its just rhetoric. Half of our population's diminution of coherent logical analysis is the fear that it might offend someone.

LTownZag
04-03-2019, 08:11 AM
Exrta irony given that Ravet is taller than MSU's point guard, Auburn's point guard, and UVA's point guard, and is the same height as Duke's.

Zagdawg
04-03-2019, 08:16 AM
Majority of Zag fans agree ---Lightning hit it on the head. Give him a shot and treat our players with respect-- they have earned it by becoming a part of the Zag family.

Zagceo
04-03-2019, 08:23 AM
GU BOARDS The Home of Gonzaga Basketball Talk

don't like the discussion use the ignore feature

Zagceo
04-03-2019, 09:15 AM
not a fan of Walt's grandson...too much hero ball. Watched a couple games and highlights. Maybe he could evolve. Jenkins looks like good fit.

webspinnre
04-03-2019, 09:34 AM
While i agree for the most part, as 60% of the time anyone any good is reported by Goodman or Borzello to have heard from GU.. i would venture to guess there is actual interest in both of these guys-- especially Jenkins. He is a high major starting guard.

I think the general point is that Gonzaga doesn't go out trying to recruit/poach players from other schools. Gonzaga is certainly in discussions with a number of PG/CG transfers, but GoZags was clarifying regarding "reaching out" specifically, that someone associated with the player actually "reaches out" to Gonzaga, rather than the other way around.

GoZags
04-03-2019, 09:42 AM
I think the general point is that Gonzaga doesn't go out trying to recruit/poach players from other schools. Gonzaga is certainly in discussions with a number of PG/CG transfers, but GoZags was clarifying regarding "reaching out" specifically, that someone associated with the player actually "reaches out" to Gonzaga, rather than the other way around.

My comment was true a month or two ago ... during the actual season. I corrected a couple of comments that GU was “reaching out” to several potential Grad Transfers. At the time there were folks that had discretely reached out to the Zags through intermediaries (while the kids were still playing with their schools).

Now that the season is over (for most programs) kids are declaring their intentions of transferring. GU (and any program) are able to contact these types of transfers. At least that’s my understanding.

BTw when Nigel announced he was transferring from
UDub Gonzaga wasn’t on his list. But Brian Michaelson (a fellow Portland native) let it be known that the Zags were interested. That one sure worked out okay.

jazzdelmar
04-03-2019, 09:49 AM
I guess we actually don't like a sense of humour here.

Ugh. I like the way Jazz writes, and have discovered him to be one of the four or five best posters on this board. I enjoy his commentary and find that he cuts through the nonsense with simple one liners that enrage people. Good. I find most of the criticisms of his writing to be, well, lilliputian. I have heard the same joke made by Don Cherry when the Bruins had a really small lineup on the ice; Its not an insult to the player. Unless you think being short is bad? Cuz I don't think being short is bad. Hell, we could use Muggsy Bogues next year . . . Gosh, its just rhetoric. Half of our population's diminution of coherent logical analysis is the fear that it might offend someone.

Thanks, Val. I wonder what "white lightning" stands for?

former1dog
04-03-2019, 09:50 AM
To reiterate, I acknowledge that Ravet is defensively challenged. More on that in a minute.

Offensively, I'm going to choose to believe the eyewitness accounts of Maynard G Krebs and even moreso our own Reborn. Reborn, as many of you know, played guard for Gonzaga many years ago and has the unique perspective of having played basketball at a high level. They have described a player who will thrive offensively at the division 1 level.

As to Ravet's opportunity to develop as a defensive player (and physically strength, to boot), I can speak from personal experience that it is possible to make a significant jump in ability in a short period of time. I did it! Coming out of a very small high school, I was an athlete of middling ability (in a different sport). I had a very intense desire, though, to be good and make an impact on the college level. I had 3 months from high school graduation until I had the chance to suit up for Gonzaga as a walk on. I made the team and 2 months later I was the top freshman in the conference and honorable mention all conference. Now, I realize this isn't an apples to apples comparison as I was not a basketball player, but the point is still valid. A young athlete can make a significant jump in ability/athleticism that older athletes typically can not.

Another example, maybe more pertinent and over a slightly longer period of time, is Kelly Olynyk. He completely changed his body and what he was capable of athletically by applying smart training and most importantly determination.

GoZags
04-03-2019, 09:56 AM
To reiterate, I acknowledge that Ravet is defensively challenged. More on that in a minute.

Offensively, I'm going to choose to believe the eyewitness accounts of Maynard G Krebs and even moreso our own Reborn. Reborn, as many of you know, played guard for Gonzaga many years ago and has the unique perspective of having played basketball at a high level. They have described a player who will thrive offensively at the division 1 level.

As to Ravet's opportunity to develop as a defensive player (and physically strength, to boot), I can speak from personal experience that it is possible to make a significant jump in ability in a short period of time. I did it! Coming out of a very small high school, I was an athlete of middling ability (in a different sport). I had a very intense desire, though, to be good and make an impact on the college level. I had 3 months from high school graduation until I had the chance to suit up for Gonzaga as a walk on. I made the team and 2 months later I was the top freshman in the conference and honorable mention all conference. Now, I realize this isn't an apples to apples comparison as I was not a basketball player, but the point is still valid. A young athlete can make a significant jump in ability/athleticism that older athletes typically can not.

Another example, maybe more pertinent and over a slightly longer period of time, is Kelly Olynyk. He completely changed his body and what he was capable of athletically by applying smart training and most importantly determination.

As I get older I can’t remember what I’ve shared publicly (or privately) but a month or so ago I learned that a couple members of the GU staff were so impressed with Ravet that they said if he were in THIS year’s team he would be getting meaningful and significant minutes. He’s that good. And they think that highly of him.

jazzdelmar
04-03-2019, 10:00 AM
Good to hear GZ. Hey, I want the kid to succeed as well. Matter of fact, I will kiss LIZF's butt in Times Square if the kid can dribble brilliantly, hit better than 40% from 3, and 90% from the line. Who cares about D, anyway.

former1dog
04-03-2019, 10:01 AM
As I get older I can’t remember what I’ve shared publicly (or privately) but a month or so ago I learned that a couple members of the GU staff were so impressed with Ravet that they said if he were in THIS year’s team he would be getting meaningful and significant minutes. He’s that good. And they think that highly of him.

That is very reassuring.

With that said, I should also acknowledge the obvious and that is that the proof is always in the pudding. Ravet, like any incoming freshman, has work to do and if he does it, then we're all going to be pleasantly surprised.

former1dog
04-03-2019, 10:02 AM
Good to hear GZ. Hey, I want the kid to succeed as well. Matter of fact, I will kiss LIZF's butt in Times Square if the kid can dribble brilliantly, hit better than 40% from 3, and 90% from the line. Who cares about D, anyway.

After all, your favorite player is Dan Dickau.

jazzdelmar
04-03-2019, 10:05 AM
After all, your favorite player is Dan Dickau.

Now we're talking, Mr. Liquori ....

former1dog
04-03-2019, 10:11 AM
Now we're talking, Mr. Liquori ....

More like Frank Shorter (lite, very, very lite)

JPtheBeasta
04-03-2019, 12:08 PM
Good to hear GZ. Hey, I want the kid to succeed as well. Matter of fact, I will kiss LIZF's butt in Times Square if the kid can dribble brilliantly, hit better than 40% from 3, and 90% from the line. Who cares about D, anyway.

I would teach him to hack down on players’ arms and pray, which seems to be the way to be successful in March. In all seriousness, TT guards weren’t athletic, as far as I could tell, and they are part of the #1 defense.

jazzdelmar
04-03-2019, 12:08 PM
More like Frank Shorter (lite, very, very lite)

I lived in Frank Shorter Running Gear.......great stuff, colors, fabric.....PS: wife did the LA Marathon again last wk.......35 in a row or something.

maynard g krebs
04-03-2019, 12:28 PM
Thanks, Val. I wonder what "white lightning" stands for?

There's this, from the Firesign Theatre, ca. 1970.

"White lightning, white lightning, this is ground beef control. Do you read me? Over"

"I read only good books. Over"

"Ho ho ho. You must be way out there, Pastor"

"I'm high all right, but not on false drugs. I'm high on the real thing. Powerful gasoline, a clean windshield, and a shoeshine. Over".

"He's turning over. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get thee benind meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

jazzdelmar
04-03-2019, 12:30 PM
What does that have to do with the Palestra, Les Keiter, Matt Guokas, Jr.




There's this, from the Firesign Theatre, ca. 1970.

"White lightning, white lightning, this is ground beef control. Do you read me? Over"

"I read only good books. Over"

"Ho ho ho. You must be way out there, Pastor"

"I'm high all right, but not on false drugs. I'm high on the real thing. Powerful gasoline, a clean windshield, and a shoeshine. Over".

"He's turning over. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get thee benind meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

DixieZag
04-03-2019, 12:35 PM
Sometimes the offseason is the best season on the board.

caldwellzag
04-03-2019, 12:36 PM
My comment was true a month or two ago ... during the actual season. I corrected a couple of comments that GU was ďreaching outĒ to several potential Grad Transfers. At the time there were folks that had discretely reached out to the Zags through intermediaries (while the kids were still playing with their schools).

Now that the season is over (for most programs) kids are declaring their intentions of transferring. GU (and any program) are able to contact these types of transfers. At least thatís my understanding.

BTw when Nigel announced he was transferring from
UDub Gonzaga wasnít on his list. But Brian Michaelson (a fellow Portland native) let it be known that the Zags were interested. That one sure worked out okay.


This statement is very true. I can say that the family that I heard was reaching out during the season has not put his name in the transfer portal.

That being said there are some pretty good names that our coaches are contacting and they are contacting us too.

maynard g krebs
04-03-2019, 12:40 PM
What does that have to do with the Palestra, Les Keiter, Matt Guokas, Jr.

Well, you asked about the origin of the user name "white lightning". As a firesign theatre fan, I'm hoping that's where he got it. And my older brother brought home my first firesign theatre albums from his Penn dorm, a few stones' throws from the Palestra, along w/ Penn-Princeton tickets and some recreation enhancing substances that can't be mentioned on a family board.

So indirectly, it probably has more to do with Wohl, Bilsky, Bobby Morse, Phil Hankinson, Craig Littlepage, and my favorite, Corky Calhoun, who sadly and inexplicably lost his jump shot his last year.

And back to Ravet. He seems to get faster with the ball in his hands.

As to his level of play, I was blown away, as I was by young Dickau and Morrison.

But I was also blown away when I saw hs Gary Bell score 29 first half pts in a state regional game v a good Arlington team (19-7 or something like that) on 10 of 12 and 5 of 6 threes, some from 25". Very Dickau at LMU-like. And when I saw South Medford (Or) guard Mike Harthun hit a bunch of deep 3's and outduel Kevin Love in the Oregon 6a state champ game after Love fouled out Kyle Singler, I thought he'd be Blake Stepp-like for Tony Bennett at WSU, where he flamed out and finished at Portland State.

And Bell was a good, not great player for GU, and Harthun a bust despite his borderline top 100 ranking. So you never really know until you see it on the D1 level. But at the very least, he's gonna be entertaining as hell. And I watch basketball to be entertained.

jazzdelmar
04-03-2019, 12:46 PM
Well, you asked about the origin of the user name "white lightning". As a firesign theatre fan, I'm hoping that's where he got it. And my older brother brought home my first firesign theatre albums from his Penn dorm, a few stones' throws from the Palestra, along w/ Penn-Princeton tickets and some recreation enhancing substances that can't be mentioned on a family board.

So indirectly, it probably has more to do with Wohl, Bilsky, Bobby Morse, Phil Hankinson, Craig Littlepage, and my favorite, Corky Calhoun, who sadly and inexplicably lost his jump shot his last year.

Ahh, the Red Quakers. How did u forget Tony Price?

maynard g krebs
04-03-2019, 12:59 PM
Ahh, the Red Quakers. How did u forget Tony Price?

Didn't play w/ those guys. A few yrs later.

Zagricultural
04-03-2019, 01:38 PM
I would teach him to hack down on playersí arms and pray, which seems to be the way to be successful in March. In all seriousness, TT guards werenít athletic, as far as I could tell, and they are part of the #1 defense.

No Kidding! Totally the biggest reason we lost, and may be a strategy worth employing.

DixieZag
04-03-2019, 01:46 PM
Even if Brock Ravet is the answer - the name of this thread - and I hope he is, though that is putting a tremendous amount of pressure on a first year player, a different type of pressure than a big who is a true frosh, a pg is an extension of Few on the floor, especially in our offense, but even if he IS the answer, that doesn't mean we're not dearly in need of one, probably two other transfers or JUCO players to help hold us over at the guard position.

I am encouraged by Caldwell's words, though we could've guessed that the coach's first task upon the season ending is sowing up the guard situation as we welcome in the most heralded class in Zag history.

It is crucial, as in this day and age, with one and dones, and all that, the bigs we have coming are of such quality that I don't see us as destined to fall off tremendously. Though we're unlikely to be a number one seed, I don't anticipate a 10 seed, either, and I certainly don't think we're "missing the tournament" next year.

Zagceo
04-03-2019, 02:33 PM
“You do have to ask yourself, ‘Will what he does work at our level?’ Coming from such a lower level of playing B school basketball, it’s a fair question. But when we saw Brock play, I think we were pretty confident right away that what he did would be effective at our level.”

But what stuck out most to the Gonzaga coaches was how willingly Brock passed to teammates during the games at the camp. It’s what has brought so much success to the Kittitas boys team – his ability to spread the ball around, break down the defense and find the right shot.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/feb/24/not-bad-for-a-kid-from-kittitas-a-full-ride-basket/

JPtheBeasta
04-03-2019, 04:49 PM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/feb/24/not-bad-for-a-kid-from-kittitas-a-full-ride-basket/

Thanks for posting. Fun article.

hooter73
04-03-2019, 06:15 PM
I honestly do not remember Pangos being an exceptional defender. He didn't have much length and was not much of a steals guy. He was crazy strong for his height though.

Pangos is #2 in career steals at GU.

hooter73
04-03-2019, 06:18 PM
I have had negative feedback for this but I’m sticking to my Rotnei Clark comparison. Actually a huge compliment. Rotnei practiced 300 three point shots per day.

I think Brock is a scorer more than anything. I could picture him as a shooting guard with combo skills.

Dranginis also shot a couple hundred a day from the time he committed in high school and still made less than 100 on the court in his career for GU. He was a big fish in a small Idaho pond.

I think what im seeing is we just don’t know what Ravet will be til he’s done here. I sure want to root for him just as much as I rooted for Wade, who I couldn’t sing high enough praises of, but to be at the top, we need the top players and those won’t be here till 2021

former1dog
04-03-2019, 06:28 PM
Pangos is #2 in career steals at GU.


#3 as of Perkins last game 🙂

sittingon50
04-03-2019, 08:08 PM
There's this, from the Firesign Theatre, ca. 1970.

"White lightning, white lightning, this is ground beef control. Do you read me? Over"

"I read only good books. Over"

"Ho ho ho. You must be way out there, Pastor"

"I'm high all right, but not on false drugs. I'm high on the real thing. Powerful gasoline, a clean windshield, and a shoeshine. Over".

"He's turning over. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get thee benind meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

maynard, how can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?

Vanzagger
04-03-2019, 08:12 PM
Well, you asked about the origin of the user name "white lightning". As a firesign theatre fan, I'm hoping that's where he got it. And my older brother brought home my first firesign theatre albums from his Penn dorm, a few stones' throws from the Palestra, along w/ Penn-Princeton tickets and some recreation enhancing substances that can't be mentioned on a family board.

So indirectly, it probably has more to do with Wohl, Bilsky, Bobby Morse, Phil Hankinson, Craig Littlepage, and my favorite, Corky Calhoun, who sadly and inexplicably lost his jump shot his last year.

And back to Ravet. He seems to get faster with the ball in his hands.

As to his level of play, I was blown away, as I was by young Dickau and Morrison.

But I was also blown away when I saw hs Gary Bell score 29 first half pts in a state regional game v a good Arlington team (19-7 or something like that) on 10 of 12 and 5 of 6 threes, some from 25". Very Dickau at LMU-like. And when I saw South Medford (Or) guard Mike Harthun hit a bunch of deep 3's and outduel Kevin Love in the Oregon 6a state champ game after Love fouled out Kyle Singler, I thought he'd be Blake Stepp-like for Tony Bennett at WSU, where he flamed out and finished at Portland State.

And Bell was a good, not great player for GU, and Harthun a bust despite his borderline top 100 ranking. So you never really know until you see it on the D1 level. But at the very least, he's gonna be entertaining as hell. And I watch basketball to be entertained.

I loved the post m g k

I do want to stick up for Bell a little and itís not like you thrashed him.

His senior year he got to go back to just being a guard. Fewís first Elite8. I put a check in the Great box for that

sheps001
04-04-2019, 07:43 AM
Forgot about that, thank you. I have trying to forget things recently, you know.

Reborn
04-04-2019, 08:23 AM
...And back to Ravet. He seems to get faster with the ball in his hands.

As to his level of play, I was blown away, as I was by young Dickau and Morrison.

And Bell was a good, not great player for GU, and Harthun a bust despite his borderline top 100 ranking. So you never really know until you see it on the D1 level. But at the very least, he's gonna be entertaining as hell. And I watch basketball to be entertained.

Pretty much my first impression of Brock Ravet. I've written about Brock on this forum for a year or maybe two now. I was mezzmerized the first time I saw him play. I have never seen a high school player like Brock. I saw Gary Bell play in high school also and he certainly stood out in the state tournament when he was a Sophomore (the same year that I first saw Brock play in high school). Gary had a beautiful shot (perfect actually) as does Rivet. However, Gary could not do with the basketball in his hands what Brock Ravet can, and that's what separates him from others. There are many players with beautiful shots, and many, many high school players who can score, but really not that many who can do with the ball that Brock can.

If you haven't seen him dribble, and seek entertainment out of watching a game, then you've missed a lot. His dribbling is so entertaining, is even more beautiful to me than a great slam dunk (but I was a guard). His vision of the court is elite, and that allows him to be the great passer that he is. His passing is as entertaining as his dribbling. If you read the article where the coaches are quoted as saying that what really impressed them was his passing. When you understand this you begin to see the kind of player Brock Ravet is. He is not Adam Morrison or even Dan Dickau because the beauty of their game was shooting and scoring. Oh Brock can score for sure, but to me that is not what makes him special. He's also not Pangos or Gary Bell. Both of them were really good shooters but neither handled the ball like Rivet does. The player I compare him to is the Morant kid from Murray St. I'm glad I saw him play in the NCAA tournament because I saw Ravet in him. Morant was the most entertaining player in the tournament for me. I wish I could have seen him play more. In a way he also reminds me of Clarke. Clarke is a very good scorer, but what entertained me the most was his shot blocking skills, and how high he could jump. Mezzmerizing.................

I am not worried at all about Brock Ravet playing next year. IMO he will start and he'll do well. He has all the tools, and his attitude is great. I can hardly wait to see him play. He is also coming into to GU with what is probably the best class of basketball players in the history of GU basketball. That's awesome. In that class is another player, Watson, from our beautiful state. I'm excited to see them play together. One way to overcome the grief experienced from the loss to Texas Tech is thinking about next years team,

Go Zags!!!

LTownZag
04-04-2019, 08:34 AM
Pretty much my first impression of Brock Rivet. I've written about Brock on this forum for a year or maybe two now. I was mezzmerized the first time I saw him play. I have never seen a high school player like Brock. I saw Gary Bell play in high school also and he certainly stood out in the state tournament when he was a Sophomore (the same year that I first saw Brock play in high school). Gary had a beautiful shot (perfect actually) as does Rivet. However, Gary could not do with the basketball in his hands what Brock Rivet can, and that's what separates him from others. There are many players with beautiful shots, and many, many high school players who can score, but really not that many who can do with the ball that Brock can.

If you haven't seen him dribble, and seek entertainment out of watching a game, then you've missed a lot. His dribbling is so entertaining, is even more beautiful to me than a great slam dunk (but I was a guard). His vision of the court is elite, and that allows him to be the great passer that he is. His passing is as entertaining as his dribbling. If you read the article where the coaches are quoted as saying that what really impressed them was his passing. When you understand this you begin to see the kind of player Brock Rivet is. He is not Adam Morrison or even Dan Dickau because the beauty of their game was shooting and scoring. Oh Brock can score for sure, but to me that is not what makes him special. He's also not Pangos or Gary Bell. Both of them were really good shooters but neither handled the ball like Rivet does. The player I compare him to is the Morant kid from Murray St. I'm glad I saw him play in the NCAA tournament because I saw Rivet in him. Morant was the most entertaining player in the tournament for me. I wish I could have seen him play more. In a way he also reminds me of Clarke. Clarke is a very good scorer, but what entertained me the most was his shot blocking skills, and how high he could jump. Mezzmerizing.................

I am not worried at all about Brock Rivet playing next year. IMO he will start and he'll do well. He has all the tools, and his attitude is great. I can hardly wait to see him play. He is also coming into to GU with what is probably the best class of basketball players in the history of GU basketball. That's awesome. In that class is another player, Watcon, from our beautiful state. I'm excited to see them play together. One way to overcome the grief experienced from the loss to Texas Tech is thinking about next years team,

Go Zags!!!

Ravet

(and for the record, Norvell)

DixieZag
04-04-2019, 08:41 AM
Tough call on Bell.

He was tasked to being our "shut down" defender, and how many times did he, in fact, literally shut down the other team's best scorer, twice a year at least with just BYU.

But being the best off the ball defender GU might have ever had - as was his role - severely shuts down what a guy can do offensively, which then alters how his entire career is interpreted. In HS he was a scorer, in college he was the guy who protected our guys.

He accepted the whole role with enthusiasm, just one reason I love the kid.

Reborn
04-04-2019, 08:48 AM
Ravet

(and for the record, Norvell)

Thanks for the correction.

JPtheBeasta
04-04-2019, 09:34 AM
Tough call on Bell.

He was tasked to being our "shut down" defender, and how many times did he, in fact, literally shut down the other team's best scorer, twice a year at least with just BYU.

But being the best off the ball defender GU might have ever had - as was his role - severely shuts down what a guy can do offensively, which then alters how his entire career is interpreted. In HS he was a scorer, in college he was the guy who protected our guys.

He accepted the whole role with enthusiasm, just one reason I love the kid.

Bell, Silas, ... We didn’t have the dirty work guy on defense this year.

bballbeachbum
04-04-2019, 12:10 PM
Tough call on Bell.

He was tasked to being our "shut down" defender, and how many times did he, in fact, literally shut down the other team's best scorer, twice a year at least with just BYU.

But being the best off the ball defender GU might have ever had - as was his role - severely shuts down what a guy can do offensively, which then alters how his entire career is interpreted. In HS he was a scorer, in college he was the guy who protected our guys.

He accepted the whole role with enthusiasm, just one reason I love the kid.

It does shape the interpretation, for some of us into the super positive, for others something different

Perimeter d stoppers are elite players in cbb, keys to FF aspirations

maynard g krebs
04-04-2019, 01:41 PM
I loved the post m g k

I do want to stick up for Bell a little and it’s not like you thrashed him.

His senior year he got to go back to just being a guard. Few’s first Elite8. I put a check in the Great box for that

Bell is one of my all time favorites. But not the offensive star I expected and hoped him to be after averaging 28+ in the very tough SPSL at Kentridge. I thought he'd score in the mid-high teens as an upperclassman at GU, but he accepted a lesser offensive role and became the defensive stopper for the good of the team.

MDABE80
04-04-2019, 02:26 PM
My solution: Give Ravet tons of love and support. He'll be an offensive LD shooter . It'll be his role. He's a great passer too. Defense is to be built. Good kid, good family. W hen you need points ( esp LD points) we'll be glad he's here. Young buy needs to develop in all phases of the game. Has he ever disappointed in production no matter the opposition? No. Who knows? He's may end up surprising most/all of us.

jazzdelmar
04-04-2019, 02:31 PM
My solution: Give Ravet tons of love and support. He'll be an offensive LD shooter . It'll be his role. He's a great passer too. Defense is to be built. Good kid, good family. W hen you need points ( esp LD points) we'll be glad he's here. Young buy needs to develop in all phases of the game. Has he ever disappointed in production no matter the opposition? No. Who knows? He's may end up surprising most/all of us.

Anything over 37 percent from LD ó the aggregate of our three putative sharpshooters this year ó will be gravy. Iím ready to be wrong.

MDABE80
04-04-2019, 03:00 PM
Can't tell but hoping he's more like 42-43%. Make him happy and he'll be doing well with his LD shooting.

Vanzagger
04-04-2019, 03:05 PM
Who cares about stats? What are you doing in the post season, when every possession is hot, to raise your brothers up.

jazzdelmar
04-04-2019, 03:21 PM
Who cares about stats? What are you doing in the post season, when every possession is hot, to raise your brothers up.

You mean like not going scoreless or 2-15?

jazzdelmar
04-04-2019, 03:22 PM
Can't tell but hoping he's more like 42-43%. Make him happy and he'll be doing well with his LD shooting.


The nice Italian boy on TT shoots it at 45.

Reborn
04-04-2019, 03:54 PM
The nice Italian boy on TT shoots it at 45.

And somehow we let him shoot his team into the Final 4 and break our hearts.

jazzdelmar
04-04-2019, 04:08 PM
And somehow we let him shoot his team into the Final 4 and break our hearts.

Ahhhh, Italians can be very beguiling, Bornie. How are things in my favorite Washington town?

SorenTodd45
04-04-2019, 05:53 PM
Brock is the real deal. I've seen enough online footage of his senior season to convince me. And Reborn is right, Brock's dribbling is a work of art. You either have the talent or you don't.

Reborn
04-04-2019, 09:26 PM
Ahhhh, Italians can be very beguiling, Bornie. How are things in my favorite Washington town?

Things are great. As you can tell by my writing, I'm feeling better every week. Enjoying the warmer weather, and love the sunshine as I sit and watch my granddaughter play tennis. She's #1 doubles and undefeated so far. She's 6' tall and also a good volleyball player. Hope all is well with you and your family too.

bballbeachbum
04-04-2019, 10:29 PM
And somehow we let him shoot his team into the Final 4 and break our hearts.

e' successo dopo un grande fiasco di merda, e purtroppo, il nostro Zags non aveva l'abilita' di finire quando l'altra squadra commette un fallo ogni volta

Buona Notte

bballbeachbum
04-04-2019, 10:34 PM
good luck Brock, whether The answer, or part of the answer over the years

Zagceo
04-24-2019, 08:24 AM
The only freshman point guard that started all four years that I can think of was Pangos ??? Some have said he is another Pangos....if he is..... I will buy your boys a new Brock shirt every year...

Career numbers for Kevin....tall order IMO for any incoming freshmen to measure up to

Season Averages




SEASON



2011-12



2012-13



2013-14



2014-15








GP
GS
MPG
FG
FG%
3PT
3P%
FT
FT%
OR
DR
REB
AST
BLK
STL
PF
TO
PTS


33
32
31.6
4-9
43.1
2-6
40.1
2-3
85.1
0.2
2.5
2.7
3.4
0.1
1.2
1.7
1.8
13.6


35
35
32.2
3-9
42.6
2-5
41.7
1-2
80.7
0.4
2.3
2.7
3.3
0.0
1.5
2.0
1.5
11.9


36
36
34.9
4-10
43.0
2-5
41.2
3-3
87.3
0.2
3.1
3.3
3.6
0.0
1.0
1.9
1.7
14.4


38
38
33.6
3-7
44.9
2-4
43.1
2-2
82.4
0.4
2.3
2.7
4.8
0.1
1.3
1.9
1.3
11.6








Season Totals




SEASON



2011-12



2012-13



2013-14



2014-15








FG
FG%
3PT
3P%
FT
FT%
OR
DR
REB
AST
BLK
STL
PF
TO
PTS


137-318
43.1
79-197
40.1
97-114
85.1
8
81
89
111
2
40
56
60
450


135-317
42.6
78-187
41.7
67-83
80.7
14
79
93
116
0
52
69
51
415


159-370
43.0
84-204
41.2
117-134
87.3
8
110
118
128
1
37
70
60
519


135-301
44.9
81-188
43.1
89-108
82.4
16
88
104
181
4
48
74
51
440

exclusivelee
04-24-2019, 08:40 AM
Career numbers for Kevin....tall order IMO for any incoming freshmen to measure up to

Posh Jerkins did ok following this Kevin guy

Zagceo
04-24-2019, 08:53 AM
Posh Jerkins did ok following this Kevin guy

Posh numbers

Season Averages




SEASON
TEAM


2014-15
GONZ (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs)


2015-16
GONZ (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs)


2016-17
GONZ (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs)


2017-18
GONZ (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs)


2018-19
GONZ (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs)







GP
GS
MPG
FG
FG%
3PT
3P%
FT
FT%
OR
DR
REB
AST
BLK
STL
PF
TO
PTS


5
0
20.2
1-3
50.0
0-2
40.0
.6-.8
75.0
0.0
1.0
1.0
3.4
0.2
0.8
1.4
2.0
5.0


36
36
30.8
3-8
43.3
1-3
37.8
1-2
70.0
0.6
2.7
3.3
4.1
0.3
1.2
2.8
2.1
10.1


38
35
28.9
2-6
41.8
1-4
39.9
1-1
72.9
0.2
2.1
2.3
3.1
0.2
0.9
2.2
2.0
8.1


37
37
32.9
4-9
43.9
2-5
39.3
1-2
75.3
0.5
2.6
3.1
5.3
0.1
1.2
2.5
2.1
12.3


37
37
31.3
3-8
45.4
1-3
36.6
1-2
81.6
0.4
2.3
2.7
6.3
0.1
1.5
2.1
2.0
11.0









Season Totals




SEASON
TEAM


2014-15
GONZ (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs)


2015-16
GONZ (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs)


2016-17
GONZ (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs)


2017-18
GONZ (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs)


2018-19
GONZ (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs)







FG
FG%
3PT
3P%
FT
FT%
OR
DR
REB
AST
BLK
STL
PF
TO
PTS


9-18
50.0
4-10
40.0
3-4
75.0
0
5
5
17
1
4
7
10
25


127-293
43.3
48-127
37.8
63-90
70.0
22
98
120
146
11
43
101
74
365


97-232
41.8
63-158
39.9
51-70
72.9
9
78
87
119
6
33
85
75
308


156-355
43.9
83-211
39.3
61-81
75.3
19
97
116
196
3
44
94
77
456


142-313
45.4
53-145
36.6
71-87
81.6
16
85
101
234
4
54
76
75
408

bartruff1
04-24-2019, 09:00 AM
Josh was a red shirt freshman PG.....huge advantage ...

maynard g krebs
04-24-2019, 11:08 AM
Josh was a red shirt freshman PG.....huge advantage ...

I doubt that watching and drinking smoothies through a straw did him a whole lot of good during his rs year. Couldn't practice, lost a ton of weight/strength. Before getting kung fu'ed he was playing 20 min a game behind Pangos/Bell as a true fr, and very effectively.

Zagceo
04-24-2019, 11:14 AM
I doubt that watching and drinking smoothies through a straw did him a whole lot of good during his rs year. Couldn't practice, lost a ton of weight/strength. Before getting kung fu'ed he was playing 20 min a game behind Pangos/Bell as a true fr, and very effectively.

think you made barts point

Zagceo
05-02-2019, 08:40 PM
Redshirt...anyone heard that before today?



It’s unclear exactly who will return next season for Gonzaga, as five underclassmen have declared for the NBA Draft with the option of coming back to school. Ravet said while he sees the blog world and people on social media say he’s a likely redshirt candidate, he’s keeping an open mind

https://sblivewa.com/2019/05/02/washington-stars-brock-ravet-anton-watson-offer-preview-of-whats-to-come-for-vaunted-gonzaga-recruiting-class/

willandi
05-02-2019, 08:49 PM
Redshirt...anyone heard that before today?




https://sblivewa.com/2019/05/02/washington-stars-brock-ravet-anton-watson-offer-preview-of-whats-to-come-for-vaunted-gonzaga-recruiting-class/

WHO'S BEEN BLOGGING THAT CRAP?

Therunner
05-03-2019, 07:49 AM
WHO'S BEEN BLOGGING THAT CRAP?

Will, those so-called bloggers or Tweets have been putting assumptions or words in the mouths of others as much as you have recently. It works both ways.

I feel you have consistently mis-quoted Gozags and/or Coaching staff numerous times regarding what was actually said about Ravet.

It's been more about your hopeful optimisim rather than the fact of what was shared by Gozags. Not to mention, taken out of context regarding next season, when they spoke to last season.

willandi
05-03-2019, 08:25 AM
Will, those so-called bloggers or Tweets have been putting assumptions or words in the mouths of others as much as you have recently. It works both ways.

I feel you have consistently mis-quoted Gozags and/or Coaching staff numerous times regarding what was actually said about Ravet.

It's been more about your hopeful optimisim rather than the fact of what was shared by Gozags. Not to mention, taken out of context regarding next season, when they spoke to last season.

Quote Originally Posted by gonzagafan62 View Post
I think the coaching staff really believes one of two things:

A. Ravet can run the point efficiently
B. They believe they can land a grad transfer

Whatever the case is, I believe in the staff.
Quote Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
While I KNOW “A” is true I would change “B” to: “They believe they can land some grad transfers.”

Here is where GoZags said that the staff believe that Ravet can run the point effectively. Since they believe they can land some grad transfers, I interpret that to mean that they believe he can run the point whether or not the transfers show up. To do that I believe it means he starts.


I don't believe I have been putting words in the mouths of others. I HAVE believed that the words I have read mean what the seem to mean.

bballbeachbum
05-04-2019, 04:03 PM
to the OP...I hope so and we'll see. Freshman PG is a big deal, not like Zion coming in and manhandling folks. we'll see

basketballzag
05-06-2019, 05:33 AM
My best analysis of Brock Ravet is that he is Kevin Pangos clone or Pangos 2.0 and that is a really good thing. Same size and height at the same age with the same high-level basketball IQ thanks to their family coaching lineage.

Reborn
05-06-2019, 05:56 AM
My best analysis of Brock Ravet is that he is Kevin Pangos clone or Pangos 2.0 and that is a really good thing. Same size and height at the same age with the same high-level basketball IQ thanks to their family coaching lineage.

Didn't Pangos and Bell both start together as freshmen? If my memory is right, they were both pretty good as freshmen.

Go Zags!!!

gonzagafan62
05-06-2019, 06:38 AM
Didn't Pangos and Bell both start together as freshmen? If my memory is right, they were both pretty good as freshmen.

Go Zags!!!

They didn’t ecactly start the season... believe pantos started 9 games in but yet, they both started most of the season together.,was really incredible. Both did spectacular.

slickguser
05-06-2019, 07:01 AM
They didnít ecactly start the season... believe pantos started 9 games in but yet, they both started most of the season together.,was really incredible. Both did spectacular.


Pangos: Started 31 of 33 games
Bell: Started 26 of 33 games

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/gonzaga/2012.html

You were pretty darn close. I had it in my head that Pangos did not start only the first game and that Bell started after 4.... Good thing for records.

willandi
05-06-2019, 07:34 AM
Pangos: Started 31 of 33 games
Bell: Started 26 of 33 games

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/gonzaga/2012.html

You were pretty darn close. I had it in my head that Pangos did not start only the first game and that Bell started after 4.... Good thing for records.

Wasn't there a game mid season where Pangos was sick and didn't start? Just from my failing memory.

JPtheBeasta
05-06-2019, 07:48 AM
What would the general consensus be on a Kevin Pangos recruitment at this stage in the progression of the program?

To be honest, he doesn't fit the prototype of what I would like to see in a GU point guard right now-- but with the benefit of hindsight I would take him in heartbeat right now. When he left he seemed like he would be very hard to replace and he is one of my favorite players. He was unequivocally a winner and left as one of the all-time greats, despite being limited by a foot injury. I recall being very excited about him coming to play at GU.

If I recall, Pangos came in with the expectation to score and create for others, but with questions about his defense. I also seem to recall that Pangos came in as a coach's son with the reputation of having a high basketball IQ. He has continued a very good GU career in Europe and seemingly turned down an offer to bring his game to the NBA recently. He also seems to be a good ambassador for the program. The similarities between Ravet and Pangos are many. I am looking forward to seeing what Ravet can do and certainly would be happy if he has a career trajectory like Pangos (minus injury, of course).

former1dog
05-06-2019, 08:51 AM
What would the general consensus be on a Kevin Pangos recruitment at this stage in the progression of the program?

To be honest, he doesn't fit the prototype of what I would like to see in a GU point guard right now-- but with the benefit of hindsight I would take him in heartbeat right now. When he left he seemed like he would be very hard to replace and he is one of my favorite players. He was unequivocally a winner and left as one of the all-time greats, despite being limited by a foot injury. I recall being very excited about him coming to play at GU.

If I recall, Pangos came in with the expectation to score and create for others, but with questions about his defense. I also seem to recall that Pangos came in as a coach's son with the reputation of having a high basketball IQ. He has continued a very good GU career in Europe and seemingly turned down an offer to bring his game to the NBA recently. He also seems to be a good ambassador for the program. The similarities between Ravet and Pangos are many. I am looking forward to seeing what Ravet can do and certainly would be happy if he has a career trajectory like Pangos (minus injury, of course).

I don't necessarily see Pangos and Ravet's style being the same. Pangos was/is more of a physical specimen (looks stronger/fitter) than Ravet, albeit he has shorter arms proportionally than Ravet. I thought that Pangos was very much a meat and potatoes player in terms of playing a straight up, no razzle dazzle style of basketball. Pangos as a freshman, vs Ravet as a high school senior, was a much better defender, IMO.

Ravet on the other hand has more a free flowing, going to attempt to more spectacular/entertaining plays offensively than Pangos.

I think Pangos at the same stage as Ravet was probably a better shooter, but not as good a scorer. I would probably say Ravet is a better passer vs the Freshman Pango.

amaronizag
05-06-2019, 10:14 AM
My first chance to see Pangos was at Kraziness in the Kennel. His court vision, ability to control flow of the offense, passing, and uncontested 3 point shooting was off the charts in my mind. I enthusiastically emailed all my friends that he and Bell needed to be in the starting lineup ASAP. The universal response was....."NO WAY Few is going to start 2 freshmen, especially not a freshman at point guard." Early in the season, Pangos proceeded to knock down seven 3 pt shots in a game and changed a lot of minds. Pangos was a great catch and shoot, wide open 3pt shooter, and I think Ravet will be his equal or better in that respect. But I think Ravet will be better at creating space, making a wider variety of shots, and take it to the hoop maybe better than Pangos. Pangos was a little slow in lateral movement, but certainly passable on defense, unflappable, and a conservative, but great floor general. I think Ravet will be his equal with a chance to prove himself better.

hooter73
05-06-2019, 10:51 AM
Ive said before that Pangos was perfect for the program at the time, now though, GU needs a higher level player to lead the way.

maynard g krebs
05-06-2019, 11:11 AM
ESPN box lists Stockton and Carter as starters in game 1 2011-12 (E Wa), playing 19 and 32 minutes respectively, w/ Pangos playing 27 min off the bench and Bell 14.

Game 2, Pangos started , played 30+ min and scored 33 w/ nine three pointers. Bell played 24 or 27 min in game 2; started a few games later as someone said above.

Zagceo
05-06-2019, 11:18 AM
Did I read somewhere Ravit will be 19 year old freshmen where as Pangos was 18 as frosh?

caldwellzag
05-06-2019, 12:02 PM
Ive said before that Pangos was perfect for the program at the time, now though, GU needs a higher level player to lead the way.

Not that I disagree with the statement, but Ravet was just ranked number 94 by 247 that's a pretty high level player. Our 2020 point guard will be ranked 85 spaces higher, but still 94 is not bad.

hooter73
05-06-2019, 01:48 PM
Not that I disagree with the statement, but Ravet was just ranked number 94 by 247 that's a pretty high level player. Our 2020 point guard will be ranked 85 spaces higher, but still 94 is not bad.

understated music to many ears lol

OZZY
05-06-2019, 02:47 PM
The thing about Pangos was that before he played at GU he had faced much higher level of competition than Ravet has. He led Canada at the U17 world championships and was named in the all star team (along with Karnowski).

He also played for Canada in Portland at the Nike Hoops Summit, again showing to be one of the best players in that tournament.

I think this experience helped Kevin deal with the jump from High School ball to College ball better than most freshman.

While Kevin may not have had lateral quickness he still is up there (only behind the greatest) in terms of career steals.

I am looking forward to Brock's career at GU very much, and hope he has as much of an impact as Kevin did.

maynard g krebs
05-07-2019, 10:40 AM
He also played for Canada in Portland at the Nike Hoops Summit, again showing to be one of the best players in that tournament.



I watched that game, and I think "held his own" would be a fair analysis. He certainly played competently against the US hs AA's, but imo to say he was one of the best players in that game is a bit of a stretch.

MDABE80
05-07-2019, 11:41 AM
Ive said before that Pangos was perfect for the program at the time, now though, GU needs a higher level player to lead the way.
Do you really believe this? I thought Kevin was 6 ft 2 and 180-190, and ready to go. 34 pts first game and was a very good passer, superior ball handler with good defense and with 80% PLUS free throw shooter...…….right out of the box. Those numbers are hard to duplicate. More though, he had an exceptional feel and understanding of the game. I think he'd get tons of minutes on today's teams. And we think we could do better? Only reservation is speed..

hooter73
05-07-2019, 11:51 AM
Do you really believe this? I thought Kevin was 6 ft 2 and 180-190, and ready to go. 34 pts first game and was a very good passer, superior ball handler with good defense and with 80% PLUS free throw shooter...…….right out of the box. Those numbers are hard to duplicate. More though, he had an exceptional feel and understanding of the game. I think he'd get tons of minutes on today's teams. And we think we could do better? Only reservation is speed..

Everyone loved KP, me included. He was amazing, but guards like Goss, Perkins, Melson… any of this decade's 1 or 2s would have nullified Pangos. He was what we needed when we needed it but the level has changed right along with the game evolving, 300lb big men and short slow guards do not win in April in todays college game... in my opinion of course. Not like anyone would turn a player like him down though, that's for sure.

Malastein
05-07-2019, 11:59 AM
Pangos would’ve been a main contributor on every Gonzaga team. Perhaps a lesser role as a freshman and sophomore, but he was certainly good enough to play 20-25 minutes on the runner up team or last year.

OntZags
05-07-2019, 12:05 PM
Everyone loved KP, me included. He was amazing, but guards like Goss, Perkins, Melson… any of this decade's 1 or 2s would have nullified Pangos. He was what we needed when we needed it but the level has changed right along with the game evolving, 300lb big men and short slow guards do not win in April in todays college game... in my opinion of course. Not like anyone would turn a player like him down though, that's for sure.

I definitely disagree with that Pangos bit. He is a better than average Euroleague player and very much Goss's peer in that circuit. (Melson's playing at a lower level and Perkins is realistically trying to make it to KP/NWG's level in Europe)

He had some shortcomings (his wingspan particularly) defensively but he was by no means a terrible defender. If that 2015 team caught a different draw (or even like 3/4 breaks in that Duke game), that team could well have been GU's first championship team. (or at least FF)

It's not like all the top blue bloods have nothing but future NBA guys on their lineup. They have guys that struggle to even succeed in Euroleague or lower. I'd generally prefer a senior Euroleague bound player over a freshman NBA bound guy any day, especially come tourney time.

The ways Pangos can make you pay offensively more than overcomes defensive switching issues. Ideally you'd partner a guy like KP with a ++ defender with length and bob's your uncle.

bartruff1
05-07-2019, 12:08 PM
If Ravet is half the player that Kevin was/is I will be very pleased...I would take Kevin over any of the guards that have played here in the last 20 years.... with the exception of Williams Goss..... just my opinion....I will apologize in advance for not responding to any that have a different opinion.....have a great day...:)

raise the zag
05-07-2019, 12:56 PM
If Ravet is half the player that Kevin was/is I will be very pleased...I would take Kevin over any of the guards that have played here in the last 20 years.... with the exception of Williams Goss..... just my opinion....I will apologize in advance for not responding to any that have a different opinion.....have a great day...:)

I'm with you Bart.

Kevin is also the highest professionally paid Zag guard since Dickau, for a reason.

He is making good money playing in 2nd best League in the World.

Pangos is and was a fantastic player and lead the initial charge to the Elite 8 against really getting us over the so-called hump.

Been on a hot streak ever since he handed over the keys.

zagfan1970
05-07-2019, 01:22 PM
I'm with you Bart.

Kevin is also the highest professionally paid Zag guard since Dickau, for a reason.

He is making good money playing in 2nd best League in the World.

Pangos is and was a fantastic player and lead the initial charge to the Elite 8 against really getting us over the so-called hump.

Been on a hot streak ever since he handed over the keys.

2 quick things to mention-
1) There is a kid named Martynas Arlauskas playing with Pangos team in this 2nd best League in the World. Do not be surprised if HE is the best recruit out of this new bunch.
2) As good as Suggs is and I truly hope he commits it should be noted that Brock got the better of him when Sizzle played Supreme. near 9:40 mark of video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOfiNYXLhDo

former1dog
05-07-2019, 01:46 PM
2 quick things to mention-
1) There is a kid named Martynas Arlauskas playing with Pangos team in this 2nd best League in the World. Do not be surprised if HE is the best recruit out of this new bunch.

Not anymore. Pangos signed with Barcelona last summer.

http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?63357-It-s-Official-Kevin-Pangos-to-Barcelona-New-Euroleague-chapter-begins

zagfan1970
05-07-2019, 01:56 PM
Not anymore. Pangos signed with Barcelona last summer.

http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?63357-It-s-Official-Kevin-Pangos-to-Barcelona-New-Euroleague-chapter-begins

Right, sorry Arlauskas was injured last year. It was when they were both with Zalgiris.
In this video at :36 Pangos kicks to him for a 3 and again at 1:54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEzT2dbTSpk

former1dog
05-07-2019, 02:01 PM
Right, sorry Arlauskas was injured last year. It was when they were both with Zalgiris.
In this video at :36 Pangos kicks to him for a 3 and again at 1:54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEzT2dbTSpk


:agreed:

LTownZag
05-07-2019, 02:06 PM
Everyone loved KP, me included. He was amazing, but guards like Goss, Perkins, Melson… any of this decade's 1 or 2s would have nullified Pangos. He was what we needed when we needed it but the level has changed right along with the game evolving.

Then why didn't it happen (Pangos' offense being "nullified") the first year he played professional ball in Europe? KP played at Gonzaga in 2015, leading us to the Elite 8 where we lost a close one to the national champions. You speak about him vs "this decade's guards" as though he was at GU in the 80s or 90s. There's no way that all of "this decade's guards" shuts him down on offense. Matthews? Perkins? Stockton? Norvell?

I get the basics of what you are saying about KP not being an elite athlete but think you are massively overstating the case. He shot over 40% from 3 all 4 years. He shot over 80% from the line all 4 years. He had under 2 TOs/game and at least 1 steal per game all 4 years. No way would KP not see significant playing time last year or this year or next year, and no way would a Melson or Perkins defending him result in him being neutralized.

Mr Vulture
05-07-2019, 02:23 PM
Ravet went off for 27 pts, 6 rebs, & 5 assists vs Suggs' team last Summer.

Compared to Suggs, who had 13 pts, 3 rebs, & 4 assists the same game.

Clearly that means that Ravet is the better player..right?? ;)

sittingon50
05-07-2019, 02:58 PM
Clearly that means that Ravet is the better player..right?? ;)


That's how it works.


:rolleyes:

JPtheBeasta
05-07-2019, 04:50 PM
I’ve enjoyed the trip down memory lane with Pangos. He was a winner and seemed like a good guy, as well. If Ravet is some kind of hybrid between a Pangos and a Dan Dickau I’ll be pretty happy.

OZZY
05-07-2019, 05:23 PM
I watched that game, and I think "held his own" would be a fair analysis. He certainly played competently against the US hs AA's, but imo to say he was one of the best players in that game is a bit of a stretch.

You are correct sir, he did struggle in the Summit. I 've checked back and realized was actually thinking of the 2010 Nike Global Challenge which had a Canadian team playing.

He played very well in that tournament which featured international teams and 4 American All star teams. The Canadian team also featured Wiltjer, Anthony Bennett and Khem Birch.

Anyway, excited to see how Brock fares, agree with JP above a Dickau / Pangos hybrid would be pretty cool!

WallaWallaZag
05-08-2019, 07:39 AM
zags just got beat by a matt mooney and davide moretti backcourt...i don't think either of those guys are particularly great athletes that would lock down a guy like pangos. if ravet can hit shots and run the offense he'll be fine...defense will probably never be something to write home about, but that's why you find guys like brandon clarke. don't think there's a currently great defender on the roster, but ballo could become pretty intimidating.

JPtheBeasta
05-08-2019, 11:13 AM
zags just got beat by a matt mooney and davide moretti backcourt...i don't think either of those guys are particularly great athletes that would lock down a guy like pangos. if ravet can hit shots and run the offense he'll be fine...defense will probably never be something to write home about, but that's why you find guys like brandon clarke. don't think there's a currently great defender on the roster, but ballo could become pretty intimidating.

While I think athleticism is a great asset on defense, TT and Virginia are great examples of really good team defense.

ZagsGoZags
05-13-2019, 03:39 AM
They didn’t ecactly start the season... believe pantos started 9 games in but yet, they both started most of the season together.,was really incredible. Both did spectacular.

my memory is that he started by the 2nd or 3rd game, following my remark to a friend how loyal Few was to his upper class loyal players. I remember sticking my neck out with a prediction, and seeing it knocked down right away.

Someone mentioned he could have used more speed. While I don't disagree with that, he was a better finisher in the paint and on transition than Josh P. or Melson.

basketballzag
05-13-2019, 06:01 AM
best tap the brakes on expectations for any freshmen point guard.

better to undersell and overdeliver.

100%.

Therunner
05-13-2019, 08:54 AM
Someone mentioned he could have used more speed. While I don't disagree with that, he was a better finisher in the paint and on transition than Josh P. or Melson.

Much better.

And if he wasn't converting, he was terrific at drawing fouls, esp in transition.

Pangos attempted 440 FT's as the starting PG.

Compared to Perkins, who attempted just 330 FT's in 4.5 yrs.

A 110 less FT's is an entire season's worth.

Pangos is the best PG, in terms of consistency (40% 3pt all 4 yrs), always good A to TO ratio, minutes played, playing through injury, etc. In the Mark Few era imho.

An all-time great who is the highest paid GU guard of all time outside Stockton & Dickau. And he will surpass Dickau if he keeps racking up these million dollar paychecks every yr in Europe.

Many expect his next contract to be $2 million/season.

Therunner
05-13-2019, 03:38 PM
He played 100 minutes or so before being kung fu'ed his fr year. Not anywhere near half a season. Not to nitpick too much, but you do tend to exaggerate stuff like this, under all of your multiple screen names.

Wow Maynard. Really?

I was simply praising Pangos' ability in drawing fouls by comparing two all time greats in recent years.

Saying '4.5 years' was aaying he was a Zag for 5 yrs, not just 4. and played more games.

Take out those 100 extra minutes, make it equal, and it's still impressive, even underrated, the # of FT's Pangos attempted in his time as a Zag.

bartruff1
05-13-2019, 04:45 PM
Thanks for the info...Runner...appreciate the context.....

I recall after those Zags defeated West Virginia (again) some reporter asked Huggins why he always seemed to lose to Gonzaga and he said something to the effect that …..

Gonzaga recruits kids that know how to play basketball and all to often the rest of us recruit kids that can jump and run ….. I know he was talking about the team and I suspect he was thinking about Kevin...

LTownZag
05-13-2019, 05:23 PM
Wow Maynard. Really?

I was simply praising Pangos' ability in drawing fouls by comparing two all time greats in recent years.

Saying '4.5 years' was aaying he was a Zag for 5 yrs, not just 4. and played more games.

Take out those 100 extra minutes, make it equal, and it's still impressive, even underrated, the # of FT's Pangos attempted in his time as a Zag.

I'm not sure if you're the same person as RaiseTheZag and/or SpyWhoZaggedMe, but one of them was recently asking why people compare stat totals over 40min time periods, not "per game".

This is why. Its useful to have an equal time period, as some guys will play 38 min/game and others 18.

Pangos took 3.7 free throws per 40m, and Perkins took 2.8.

thespywhozaggedme
05-13-2019, 06:02 PM
I'm not sure if you're the same person as RaiseTheZag and/or SpyWhoZaggedMe, but one of them was recently asking why people compare stat totals over 40min time periods, not "per game".

This is why. Its useful to have an equal time period, as some guys will play 38 min/game and others 18.

Pangos took 3.7 free throws per 40m, and Perkins took 2.8.

Can we please knock it off with accusing posters of being other posters in disguise? I don’t know how that has started but it’s pretty passive aggressive and nothing good comes out of it.

JPtheBeasta
05-13-2019, 06:11 PM
Can we please knock it off with accusing posters of being other posters in disguise? I don’t know how that has started but it’s pretty passive aggressive and nothing good comes out of it.

I thought you said in the past that you posted under multiple user names here...

LTownZag
05-13-2019, 06:20 PM
If all 3 of those users are separate people, I apologize for asking if they were not.

I agree that it would be a difficult suspicion or presumption to disprove as true.


I was looking at free throw attempts and leaders. Rui and PP were well ahead of any other zag in FTs per minute played.

I had just assumed that being a "good team" was correlated with making it to the line a lot, but it doesn't seem like that correlation is very strong, if it exists. VA (311th) and T-Tech (212th) did not shoot many free throws this year. UK was this year's only elite8 team in the top 60.

thespywhozaggedme
05-13-2019, 06:35 PM
I thought you said in the past that you posted under multiple user names here...

What?!?!?!? I’ve never said that. I said that I’ve posted on all 5 or so versions of this board since 1998. Who the heck uses multiple user names? And why would they do that?

JPtheBeasta
05-13-2019, 07:20 PM
What?!?!?!? I’ve never said that. I said that I’ve posted on all 5 or so versions of this board since 1998. Who the heck uses multiple user names? And why would they do that?

Weird. Must not have been you. It was in a thread that Woohoo started a while back where everyone posted something about themselves that others might not know. The post got deleted.

Markburn1
05-13-2019, 08:17 PM
I'm schizophrenic and so am I.

thespywhozaggedme
05-13-2019, 08:55 PM
Weird. Must not have been you. It was in a thread that Woohoo started a while back where everyone posted something about themselves that others might not know. The post got deleted.

I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

Zags11
05-13-2019, 08:59 PM
Some good drugs in here.

ZagNation
05-13-2019, 09:47 PM
Some good drugs in here.

We had peace for about 3 weeks. What are we talking about again?

soccerdud
05-13-2019, 09:50 PM
We had peace for about 3 weeks. What are we talking about again?

it was a month.

ZagNation
05-13-2019, 09:52 PM
it was a month.

Went by too fast.

ZagNation
05-13-2019, 09:53 PM
Can't wait to see what Brock Ravet can bring to Gonzaga next season.

Zags11
05-13-2019, 11:17 PM
We had peace for about 3 weeks. What are we talking about again?

I have noooooo idea! ;)

JPtheBeasta
05-14-2019, 11:29 AM
Some good drugs in here.

I don’t do drugs.

thespywhozaggedme
05-14-2019, 11:31 AM
Posts 154, 155 and 156 all talking about a specific poster instead of the thread topic. Mods, why is this acceptable?

former1dog
05-14-2019, 11:55 AM
Posts 155, 156 and 157 all talking about a specific poster instead of the thread topic. Mods, why is this acceptable?

I'll bet if you make like a duck, you'll see fewer and fewer posts like 155, 156 and 157.

Back to the topic, Brock Ravet is in a gym RIGHT NOW working on lateral quickness drills!!

thespywhozaggedme
05-14-2019, 12:10 PM
I'll bet if you make like a duck, you'll see fewer and fewer posts like 155, 156 and 157.

Back to the topic, Brock Ravet is in a gym RIGHT NOW working on lateral quickness drills!!

Why did you go off topic and make your posts about a poster to begin with? Isn't that against the terms of agreement? And your argument seems to be, "I don't like your posts, so I'm going to make snide posts about you". Right?

former1dog
05-14-2019, 12:14 PM
Why did you go off topic and make your posts about a poster to begin with? Isn't that against the terms of agreement? And your argument seems to be, "I don't like your posts, so I'm going to make snide posts about you". Right?

You're missing the point. I hope you get this "getting along with others" thing figured out. I'm choosing now to disengage with you on this topic(referring to the quote above).

Have a good day.

thespywhozaggedme
05-14-2019, 12:20 PM
You're missing the point. I hope you get this "getting along with others" thing figured out. I'm choosing now to disengage with you on this topic(referring to the quote above).

Have a good day.

Because you got called out on it. Tough guy.

former1dog
05-14-2019, 12:27 PM
Hopefully the thread doesn't get locked and simply the nonsensical posts get removed, including this:

I'm not a tough guy. I come here to discuss all things Gonzaga, especially Gonzaga Men's Basketball. I love Gonzaga, everything about it actually. I was a student athlete there and it was a formative experience that continues to enrich my life through the friendships I gained and have maintained for over 30 years.

What I don't want to do is be called a tough guy, or to have nonsensical debates about online decorum. Most of the folks here just get it, others unfortunately don't. I try not to engage those who don't because it almost always results in a post like the one that immediately precedes this one.

I let the mods do their jobs because they are great at it. Some of them are part of that group of friends I noted above. When they don't get to their moderating duties right away, I'll sometimes give them a nudge because I value good decorum here in my online home.

God Bless.

thespywhozaggedme
05-14-2019, 12:30 PM
Hopefully the thread doesn't get locked and simply the nonsensical posts get removed, including this:

I'm not a tough guy. I come here to discuss all things Gonzaga, especially Gonzaga Men's Basketball. I love Gonzaga, everything about it actually. I was a student athlete there and it was a formative experience that continues to enrich my life through the friendships I gained and have maintained for over 30 years.

What I don't want to do is be called a tough guy, or to have nonsensical debates about online decorum. Most of the folks here just get it, others unfortunately don't. I try not to engage those who don't because it almost always results in a post like the one that immediately precedes this one.

I let the mods do their jobs because they are great at it. Some of them are part of that group of friends I noted above. When they don't get to their moderating duties right away, I'll sometimes give them a nudge because I value good decorum here in my online home.

God Bless.

Except when you don't and start passive aggressive unprovoked posts about another poster. You guys were reported to a mod; this attacking harassment of other posters has to stop!

LongIslandZagFan
05-14-2019, 12:44 PM
Except when you don't and start passive aggressive unprovoked posts about another poster. You guys were reported to a mod; this attacking harassment of other posters has to stop!

Ummm... not sure you are one to be talking about being passive aggressive. It was your confrontational demeanor that got you a time out in the first place... are we going to keep going back down that road?

thespywhozaggedme
05-14-2019, 12:51 PM
Ummm... not sure you are one to be talking about being passive aggressive. It was your confrontational demeanor that got you a time out in the first place... are we going to keep going back down that road?

Really? Really? I was literally called "trash" by another poster and not only did another mod not say anything, Reno said that he wished my ban was permanent. The only poster that called out the guy that called me trash was Zagceo, he was the only one. Not one mod, including you said anything to that poster. In the past 2 days I have been called a saboteur, loudmouth, loser, troll, etc. Several posts (including the ones in this thread that were finally deleted by a mod) were specifically about me, completely unprovoked by the way. I started a new thread in the whelping box, promising to not say anything negative and I kept my word, yet within 15 minutes, three more posts were about me. And you come here to scold me? I know 100% that it's because I'm openly conservative and you and Reno are to the left of Chairman Mao, you can deny it, but I know it in my heart. You do not moderate equally and this board eats its own worse than any other board because of it. I'm going to stop posting because of you and Reno and as I said before, you should take a break from being a mod..

sittingon50
05-14-2019, 12:52 PM
Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, circa 1964:

"I know it when I see it."



Alas.................

former1dog
05-14-2019, 12:58 PM
For the record, I'm to the right of Ghengis Khan in my political views. Every single moderator knows this about me, BIG TIME (especially LIZF :lmao:). It is a non issue.

LongIslandZagFan
05-14-2019, 01:06 PM
Really? Really? I was literally called "trash" by another poster and not only did another mod not say anything, Reno said that he wished my ban was permanent. The only poster that called out the guy that called me trash was Zagceo, he was the only one. Not one mod, including you said anything to that poster. In the past 2 days I have been called a saboteur, loudmouth, loser, troll, etc. Several posts (including the ones in this thread that were finally deleted by a mod) were specifically about me, completely unprovoked by the way. I started a new thread in the whelping box, promising to not say anything negative and I kept my word, yet within 15 minutes, three more posts were about me. And you come here to scold me? I know 100% that it's because I'm openly conservative and you and Reno are to the left of Chairman Mao, you can deny it, but I know it in my heart. You do not moderate equally and this board eats its own worse than any other board because of it. I'm going to stop posting because of you and Reno and as I said before, you should take a break from being a mod..

And I don't have enough hands to count the complaints from other posters about you. I think you need to take a long look at how you post. You have good things to say, but it gets lost in your demeanor. I don't know why I should stop being a mod in your eyes... but if there is a mod that will argue against banning anyone for extended periods of time... it is me. Just my advice... take it or leave it... stick to content and stop arguing with literally everyone. Those three posts you complained about, they should be a wake-up call... it gives you insight into how a large number of people view your attitude... it is just that they were vocal about it publicly... many more do it privately. As I said, you have good things to say, you have been around a long time, dial it back a couple notches and focus on basketball.

Hoopaholic
05-14-2019, 01:08 PM
how Brock doing in his gym work outs...excited to see him on the court

cggonzaga
05-14-2019, 01:41 PM
In the past 2 days I have been called a saboteur, loudmouth, loser, troll, etc.

Egotistical...don’t forget egotistical!

Hoopaholic
05-14-2019, 02:00 PM
Egotistical...donít forget egotistical!

wonder what Brock will bring to the table....I think he is working hard and getting ready to work some magic

former1dog
05-14-2019, 02:03 PM
wonder what Brock will bring to the table....I think he is working hard and getting ready to work some magic

Me too!!

I think it got lost in the hullabaloo, but I am confident that Brock is in a gym right now working on lateral quickness drills!! (I have zero inside info, I'm just confident that that is what he is doing :D )

Spike#1
05-14-2019, 02:15 PM
And I don't have enough hands to count the complaints from other posters about you. I think you need to take a long look at how you post. You have good things to say, but it gets lost in your demeanor. I don't know why I should stop being a mod in your eyes... but if there is a mod that will argue against banning anyone for extended periods of time... it is me. Just my advice... take it or leave it... stick to content and stop arguing with literally everyone. Those three posts you complained about, they should be a wake-up call... it gives you insight into how a large number of people view your attitude... it is just that they were vocal about it publicly... many more do it privately. As I said, you have good things to say, you have been around a long time, dial it back a couple notches and focus on basketball.

+1

webspinnre
05-14-2019, 02:23 PM
For the record, I'm to the right of Ghengis Khan in my political views. Every single moderator knows this about me, BIG TIME (especially LIZF :lmao:). It is a non issue.

Yep, pretty well established fact on that one. While there are others who are further to the right of f1d (two immediately come to mind), it's not a big list. In the good news, regardless of political differences, most of us are able to get along just fine, especially now that the OCC is gone to keep us from arguing with each other all the time. Now we can focus on our common love for Gonzaga basketball, and not on those other things. I'm quite happy that this is one place I know that I can come and not have to deal with all of the political nonsense going around.

DixieZag
05-14-2019, 02:30 PM
how Brock doing in his gym work outs...excited to see him on the court

What level of HS ball did Dickau play? To those here who know- and I think that is you, as one?

I suppose if one wanted to model how to play coming out of HS, DD and KP would be two excellent models, Gary Bell Jr. being another. None of those 3 were athletic freaks, but Gary did work his tail off on defense, may be our best off the ball defender ever.

I really want BRavet to come out of the gates fast and play. I fear that many of us are putting unrealistic expectations on him. But, the other thing - having nothing to do with Brock, is that it's been since Perk since we recruited a guard out of high school that could really play. IIRC. So, there's some more unfair pressure on him.

JPtheBeasta
05-14-2019, 02:34 PM
Yep, pretty well established fact on that one. While there are others who are further to the right of f1d (two immediately come to mind), it's not a big list. In the good news, regardless of political differences, most of us are able to get along just fine, especially now that the OCC is gone to keep us from arguing with each other all the time. Now we can focus on our common love for Gonzaga basketball, and not on those other things. I'm quite happy that this is one place I know that I can come and not have to deal with all of the political nonsense going around.

I enjoyed the OCC but am better for it being gone, on a personal level. People I butted heads with over there are good people.

maynard g krebs
05-14-2019, 02:54 PM
What level of HS ball did Dickau play?

3a I'm fairly sure (Prairie HS I think, w/ Zach Gourde as a teammate). Lost to Mercer Island w/ Elliot Prasse-Freeman (Harvard) and Josh Fisher (St Louis U) in the state tourney.

As to unrealistic expectations of Brock, I suppose I could be called one of those. But from seeing him play, I have a feeling he welcomes those, and probably has them of himself.

maynard g krebs
05-14-2019, 02:59 PM
On the topic of someone posting under multiple names, it wasn't spy. In the thread someone referenced about telling the board something about yourself, a very knowledgeable poster w/ inside info stated that he had over 1500 posts under each of 4 screen names.

That poster's substance in terms of what he has to say (generally excellent, but slightly prone to hyperbole imo) and syntactic style are pretty unmistakable.

DixieZag
05-14-2019, 03:12 PM
3a I'm fairly sure (Prairie HS I think, w/ Zach Gourde as a teammate). Lost to Mercer Island w/ Elliot Prasse-Freeman (Harvard) and Josh Fisher (St Louis U) in the state tourney.

As to unrealistic expectations of Brock, I suppose I could be called one of those. But from seeing him play, I have a feeling he welcomes those, and probably has them of himself.

Do you worry that it is unfair to expect any Frosh guard to come in and start in Few's offense?

I worry we're not putting realistic expectations on him.

Some of it just isn't his doing, it's not his fault it's been a while since we had a guard come in and make a difference. Nor is it his fault he's small school.

I want him with the least pressure possible. Glad to hear he's on campus already, though not surprised.

former1dog
05-14-2019, 03:29 PM
Do you worry that it is unfair to expect any Frosh guard to come in and start in Few's offense?

I'm not worried about a Fr. guard in Few's offense simply because it has happened multiple times in the past with Blake Stepp and Kevin Pangos coming to mind immediately. Both of those players have something in common with Ravet as they were both coaches sons.

The caveat is that this is speculation. I'm allowing in my expectations that Ravet might not be able to make the adjustment as quickly to D1 ball or maybe not at all. But what I wish for and what I REALLY think is going to happen is that we're all going to be pleasantly surprised and those with doubts will have their minds changed by his perfomance on the court no later than mid December. Fingers crossed and work hard, Mr. Ravet, work hard!!

maynard g krebs
05-14-2019, 03:32 PM
Do you worry that it is unfair to expect any Frosh guard to come in and start in Few's offense?

I worry we're not putting realistic expectations on him.

Some of it just isn't his doing, it's not his fault it's been a while since we had a guard come in and make a difference. Nor is it his fault he's small school.

I want him with the least pressure possible. Glad to hear he's on campus already, though not surprised.

The guys who turn out to be good won't be intimidated by, nor concerned with, the expectations of a soon-to-be 65 year old pickup ball player whose greatest basketball achievements were in college intramurals. And if he isn't as good out of the box as I and some others think/hope, I'll speak supportive words and preach patience. I'd bet he'd prefer high expectations to those of the posters who say he isn't ready. Just my opinion.

As to pressure, I like to remember the words of my all time favorite golfer, Lee Trevino, a dirt poor Tex-Mex kid who learned golf by sneaking onto a nearby course at dawn and dusk to play with a broken five iron he found in the woods. Asked about pressure when in contention for his first US Open title going into Sunday's final round, Trevino laughed and said "Pressure? This isn't pressure. Pressure is when you're playing some guy for a hundred dollars, and you don't have a hundred dollars in your pocket." He won his first title the next day.

The kid in question is a baller, imo. I think the way he played v Suggs' team speaks volumes.

JPtheBeasta
05-14-2019, 04:09 PM
3a I'm fairly sure (Prairie HS I think, w/ Zach Gourde as a teammate). Lost to Mercer Island w/ Elliot Prasse-Freeman (Harvard) and Josh Fisher (St Louis U) in the state tourney.

As to unrealistic expectations of Brock, I suppose I could be called one of those. But from seeing him play, I have a feeling he welcomes those, and probably has them of himself.

If I recall, 247Sports had Norvell higher in their composite score but had Brock higher by their people (if I understand their layout). Most of my apprehensions are based on what other people have said. I expect big things out of him.

RenoZag
05-14-2019, 04:19 PM
Really? Really? I was literally called "trash" by another poster and not only did another mod not say anything, Reno said that he wished my ban was permanent. The only poster that called out the guy that called me trash was Zagceo, he was the only one. Not one mod, including you said anything to that poster. In the past 2 days I have been called a saboteur, loudmouth, loser, troll, etc. Several posts (including the ones in this thread that were finally deleted by a mod) were specifically about me, completely unprovoked by the way. I started a new thread in the whelping box, promising to not say anything negative and I kept my word, yet within 15 minutes, three more posts were about me. And you come here to scold me? I know 100% that it's because I'm openly conservative and you and Reno are to the left of Chairman Mao, you can deny it, but I know it in my heart. You do not moderate equally and this board eats its own worse than any other board because of it. I'm going to stop posting because of you and Reno and as I said before, you should take a break from being a mod..

I still think you should have been banned permanently. During the month you were on hiatus, the GUB was a relatively benign place. You return and it's Chernobyl.

If I had the ability to ban you permanently I would. I have said as much in PM's to other moderators; I'll confirm it here publicly for all to see: The GUB was better off without you.

JPtheBeasta
05-14-2019, 04:25 PM
On the topic of someone posting under multiple names, it wasn't spy. In the thread someone referenced about telling the board something about yourself, a very knowledgeable poster w/ inside info stated that he had over 1500 posts under each of 4 screen names.

That poster's substance in terms of what he has to say (generally excellent, but slightly prone to hyperbole imo) and syntactic style are pretty unmistakable.

Thank you for confirming that, with the important detail change. I was starting to think I dreamed up the whole thing.

Hoopaholic
05-14-2019, 04:39 PM
Me too!!

I think it got lost in the hullabaloo, but I am confident that Brock is in a gym right now working on lateral quickness drills!! (I have zero inside info, I'm just confident that that is what he is doing :D )
Sweet. Will help with his defense and first step to hole