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View Full Version : This is Zach's team next year.



Kong-Kool-Aid
03-30-2019, 05:49 PM
Assuming he stays.. he's now going to be the Alpha dog on this team. He's tenacious and has that Chicago baller attitude. It will be interesting to see him develop more and become the leader of this team going forward.

thespywhozaggedme
03-30-2019, 05:51 PM
Is that meant to be comforting or disconcerting? LOL

CdAZagFan
03-30-2019, 05:51 PM
I do like his tenaciousness and his confidence to shoot even when he is having an off-shooting night, but I believe he needs a good ball-handling guard to compliment him.

thespywhozaggedme
03-30-2019, 05:53 PM
I do like his tenaciousness and his confidence to shoot even when he is having an off-shooting night, but I believe he needs a good ball-handling guard to compliment him.

I love, love, love his ice water in the veins mentality. But he really has to work on his basketball IQ and learn The difference between a good shot and a bad one.

bartruff1
03-30-2019, 05:54 PM
Go make some money Zack and thanks for the thrills....you are a special player...

Kong-Kool-Aid
03-30-2019, 05:57 PM
Is that meant to be comforting or disconcerting? LOL

I think he will be a great leader.

Goshzagit
03-30-2019, 05:58 PM
Go make some money Zack and thanks for the thrills....you are a special player...

Clarke yes. Rui sure. But Norvell? Not even close.

His scouring report will start by his performance in big games and go from there...

Not yet.

See you next season Zach.

Alum08
03-30-2019, 06:03 PM
I think that the NBA combine will be a fantastic learning opportunity for Zach. He wants to be an NBA player and ultimately that is a very good thing for the Zags.

zagsfanforlife
03-30-2019, 06:03 PM
Go make some money Zack and thanks for the thrills....you are a special player...

Oh lord.. i am sitting here holding out hope that Clarke comes back. If Zack leaves too?? Yikes.

bartruff1
03-30-2019, 06:09 PM
Clarke yes. Rui sure. But Norvell? Not even close.

His scouring report will start by his performance in big games and go from there...

Not yet.

See you next season Zach.

The are Gonzaga players all over the world making hundreds of thousands and even millions....he has absolutely nothing to gain by playing another year of college basketball...in my humble opinion of course...

jazzdelmar
03-30-2019, 06:16 PM
Norvell is a lot of good things, leader is not one of them.

gonzagafan62
03-30-2019, 06:16 PM
Definitely Zach’s team. I disagree with bart thinking Zach has nothing to gain, however can see where he’s coming from also. Zach has a few things to work on before going straight to professional ball imo. Any team would be lucky to have him but maybe a year of him being the guy would be extremely beneficial

gonzagafan62
03-30-2019, 06:17 PM
Norvell is a lot of good things, leader is not one of them.

Agree.

Ezag
03-30-2019, 06:20 PM
I think ZN will be back with Tillie, I am not convinced ZN is the leader to move forward

MickMick
03-30-2019, 06:34 PM
Handles are not next level. Relative to final four expectations, definitely not strong enough with the ball.

Could find a JJ Reddick role as a pro, but would have to play just as smart and it is a narrow, crowded niche. Europe or similar is the likely destination.

Definitely not the answer as a primary ball handler at GU's level of expectations, but welcome as a catch n shoot guy if he accepts the role.

Goshzagit
03-30-2019, 06:40 PM
Norvell is a lot of good things, leader is not one of them.

Off the floor, yes he has potential. Leading by example on the floor, not ideal.

Still convinced his meniscus isn't 100%. Just speculation but seems to lack explosion off one leg.

Alum08
03-30-2019, 06:53 PM
I think Zach could grow as a leader next year. I mean, who the hell else could it be? If he wants it, the team is his. There's some synergistic opportunity there for the team: he grows as a leader and improves his game beyond dead-eye shooting, and he helps us navigate what could be a rocky transition year.

MDABE80
03-30-2019, 06:56 PM
Yep. He’s got lots of skills to develop.
Norvell is a lot of good things, leader is not one of them.

Malastein
03-30-2019, 07:55 PM
Test the waters, and come back!!

CdAZagFan
03-30-2019, 09:33 PM
That is assuming Tillie is gone... This is Tillie's team (if he wants it!)

Zagger
03-31-2019, 02:36 AM
Norvell is a lot of good things, leader is not one of them.

I'd agree ... mostly. But, leadership can spring up from unexpected places. I would not totally rule out GU being lead by Zach next year. A kid learns bunches being in GU's program - stuff that benefits them for life. Next season's team will be quite different what with the likely departure of Rui & Brandon as well as the seniors. It's not a stretch for GU to be losing at least 5 guys: Josh, Rui, Brandon, Geno and Jones. Those are some pretty high quality Zags and being able to reload with a similar caliber 5 is going to be next to impossible. Yet, a lot of what the GU program does is to flirt with the impossible. I would not rule Zach out simply due to having anything being possible at GU. Lots of unknowns for next season though .... LOTS. The new cast of Zags will be neat to watch acquire their character.

GonzagasaurusFlex
03-31-2019, 04:54 AM
I'd agree ... mostly. But, leadership can spring up from unexpected places. I would not totally rule out GU being lead by Zach next year. A kid learns bunches being in GU's program - stuff that benefits them for life. Next season's team will be quite different what with the likely departure of Rui & Brandon as well as the seniors. It's not a stretch for GU to be losing at least 5 guys: Josh, Rui, Brandon, Geno and Jones. Those are some pretty high quality Zags and being able to reload with a similar caliber 5 is going to be next to impossible. Yet, a lot of what the GU program does is to flirt with the impossible. I would not rule Zach out simply due to having anything being possible at GU. Lots of unknowns for next season though .... LOTS. The new cast of Zags will be neat to watch acquire their character.

I'm hoping Brock Ravet steps in next season as the dynamic ballhandler, passer and point man the team needs playing alongside Norvell and Kispert.

The lack of offensive execution and shot making for Zags during winning time final minutes of the game was underwhelming...hard, for me, to say if that was a players not performing or coaching not scheming well type of thing..or just great Texas Tech D. I felt like Zags did not have a clear offensive identity during several late game key offensive possessions...all the ones that mattered.

MickMick
03-31-2019, 05:26 AM
I'm hoping Brock Ravet steps in next season as the dynamic ballhandler, passer and point man the team needs playing alongside Norvell and Kispert.

The lack of offensive execution and shot making for Zags during winning time final minutes of the game was underwhelming...hard, for me, to say if that was a players not performing or coaching not scheming well type of thing..or just great Texas Tech D. I felt like Zags did not have a clear offensive identity during several late game key offensive possessions...all the ones that mattered.

The team simply wasn't strong enough with the ball in their hands. Referees typically swallow the whistle down the stretch in tournament games.

This would be a recommended drill prior to the tournament:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJzznjjuuuU

GU guards (and Rui) exposed the ball way too much against Texas Tech. Clarke was receiving passes much too low. He is at his best when the ball arrives above his head. Josh is often caught unaware of players coming from behind. Just because an opponent is not visible doesn't mean you can relax from being strong with the ball. Zach is a long, long way from being a competent ball handler at final four level.

Goss is one of my favorite all time Zags because he was so strong with the ball. It isn't a coincidence that his team went furthest.

Ladyzag12
03-31-2019, 11:34 AM
I see Zach becoming a leader. Nothing about him suggests otherwise. He could very easily be an all american next year. Eerily similar numbers to Jodie Meeks during his time at Kentucky.

GoZags
03-31-2019, 11:40 AM
I think ZN will be back with Tillie ....

That's my understanding, although nothing's in the bag until it's in the bag .... Tillie getting healthy sooner than predicted "may" have changed some dynamics vis a vis his future. Time will tell.

kitzbuel
03-31-2019, 11:43 AM
I see Zach becoming a leader. Nothing about him suggests otherwise. He could very easily be an all american next year. Eerily similar numbers to Jodie Meeks during his time at Kentucky.I think folks around here are sleeping on CK a bit. He showed this weekend that he belongs at this level. His experience is going to be critical to next year's success.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

OntZags
03-31-2019, 11:47 AM
That's my understanding, although nothing's in the bag until it's in the bag .... Tillie getting healthy sooner than predicted "may" have changed some dynamics vis a vis his future. Time will tell.

Juicy.

I know Clarke/Rui are gone but Tillie returning could be huge. I've already written him off as gone my mind so it would be a pleasant surprise if he does come back.

If we snag the right grad transfer PG, and retain Tillie/Norvell, that team has as high a ceiling as this years'.

MDABE80
03-31-2019, 01:05 PM
Yes. Now all Few has to do is find a Rui and a Clarke! Lololol should be easy! Few better get his shopping cart busy early!

basketballzag
03-31-2019, 01:48 PM
This team is going to need to land 3 guards next year given the number of players we lose at that position.

jazzdelmar
03-31-2019, 02:35 PM
This team is going to need to land 3 guards next year given the number of players we lose at that position.

Hopefully 3 unathletic, average size guards who can shoot 40% from three and hit more than 2 in a row. See Mooney. Please, no more volume shooters. That deal is done.

bartruff1
03-31-2019, 02:37 PM
I think folks around here are sleeping on CK a bit. He showed this weekend that he belongs at this level. His experience is going to be critical to next year's success.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

Me too

jazzdelmar
03-31-2019, 02:38 PM
Me too

Uh-huh. BBZ did say 3 guards.

hooter73
03-31-2019, 02:39 PM
I think folks around here are sleeping on CK a bit. He showed this weekend that he belongs at this level. His experience is going to be critical to next year's success.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
I know it’s more about the attributes but the most consistent thing about him is a stat line filled with zeros and ones. Norvell still is tiptoeing the line of out and out chucker, Tillie disappears... I honestly don’t think anyone will have any sort of an idea what this team will be until December or January next season.

theman.themyth.thelegend
03-31-2019, 02:44 PM
I know itís more about the attributes but the most consistent thing about him is a stat line filled with zeros and ones. Norvell still is tiptoeing the line of out and out chucker, Tillie disappears... I honestly donít think anyone will have any sort of an idea what this team will be until December or January next season.

likely a fun team to watch grow, develop, and improve as the season progresses.

however, also likely a team which will need to win the WCC Tourney to secure a spot in NCAA Tourney. The WCC is will be GOOD next season, likely the deepest its ever been. Nearly every team returns at least 4 of 5 starters when you look at their respective rosters. It was a YOUNG league.

thespywhozaggedme
03-31-2019, 02:59 PM
I think folks around here are sleeping on CK a bit. He showed this weekend that he belongs at this level. His experience is going to be critical to next year's success.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

Yesterday was part of “this weekend”. He scored zero points yesterday.

jazzdelmar
03-31-2019, 03:13 PM
Yesterday was part of “this weekend”. He scored zero points yesterday.

Don’t let facts get in their way, Spy.

doctorzag
03-31-2019, 03:15 PM
Norvell is a lot of good things, leader is not one of them.

This!!!

doctorzag
03-31-2019, 03:21 PM
Yesterday was part of “this weekend”. He scored zero points yesterday.

Exactly zero points,zero assists and two rebounds. He was invisible. How does that show he belongs at this level??

thespywhozaggedme
03-31-2019, 03:41 PM
This team is going to need to land 3 guards next year given the number of players we lose at that position.

So that is your not so subtle way of saying that Zach is gone. Interesting.

thespywhozaggedme
03-31-2019, 03:43 PM
Don’t let facts get in their way, Spy.

On an elite team Corey should get about 10 to 12 minutes per game as the seventh or eighth man.

jazzdelmar
03-31-2019, 03:50 PM
On an elite team Corey should get about 10 to 12 minutes per game as the seventh or eighth man.

At most.

thespywhozaggedme
03-31-2019, 03:53 PM
I think BBZ's post went right past several posters. If I interpreted it correctly, he just dropped a major bomb.

jazzdelmar
03-31-2019, 03:54 PM
I think BBZ's post went right past several posters. If I interpreted it correctly, he just dropped a major bomb.

Don’t think so. Hold your horses, Spy.

thespywhozaggedme
03-31-2019, 04:11 PM
Don’t think so. Hold your horses, Spy.

He's the stealthiest insider here. Look what he wrote, "This team is going to need to land 3 guards next year given the number of players we lose at that position."

Josh and Geno graduate, who's the 3rd? JJ hasn't played 1 minute at guard all season, he's been strictly an sf and even a few minutes as a small ball 4. So who's the 3rd guard that we'll have to replace that BBZ was referencing?

thespywhozaggedme
03-31-2019, 04:14 PM
He's the stealthiest insider here. Look what he wrote, "This team is going to need to land 3 guards next year given the number of players we lose at that position."

Josh and Geno graduate, who's the 3rd? JJ hasn't played 1 minute at guard all season, he's been strictly an sf and even a few minutes as a small ball 4. So who's the 3rd guard that we'll have to replace that BBZ was referencing?

You know what, I didn't take into account that he may mean that one of Ayayi or GFJ will be gone. That's a real possibility I suppose. Although "replacing" them shouldn't be hard since they only saw garbage time. Things will get very interesting in the next few weeks, that's for sure.

jazzdelmar
03-31-2019, 04:27 PM
You know what, I didn't take into account that he may mean that one of Ayayi or GFJ will be gone. That's a real possibility I suppose. Although "replacing" them shouldn't be hard since they only saw garbage time. Things will get very interesting in the next few weeks, that's for sure.

See, horses held, Spy. Good job.

thespywhozaggedme
03-31-2019, 04:49 PM
See, horses held, Spy. Good job.

how many games could a team of Bryan Alberts, Angel Nunez, PMac, Manny Arop, Grant Gibbs, Ryan Edwards, Lucas Meikle, Mathias Moerninghoff, Mathias Kieta, Ayayi and Foster win? Top half of the WCC?

maynard g krebs
03-31-2019, 04:51 PM
On Kispert, he does the little things that don't show up in the box score. Look at who inbounds the ball v late game full court presses. He moves the ball quickly in the half court, keeps the offense flowing. Doesn't take bad shots like Norvell.

In hs, he was once called the best shooter on the circuit. My take is that for the Zags, he doesn't get enough shots to really be in rhythm. With the offense focused on getting the ball inside, he doesn't get many attempts.

Bottom line is that this year's Zags had the third best offense in the 18 years of the kenpom era with CK starting. Few understands what he contributes even if posters here don't. I wouldn't be looking for his minutes to drop.

MDABE80
03-31-2019, 04:55 PM
On Kispert, he does the little things that don't show up in the box score. Look at who inbounds the ball v late game full court presses. He moves the ball quickly in the half court, keeps the offense flowing. Doesn't take bad shots like Norvell.

In hs, he was once called the best shooter on the circuit. My take is that for the Zags, he doesn't get enough shots to really be in rhythm. With the offense focused on getting the ball inside, he doesn't get many attempts.

Bottom line is that this year's Zags had the third best offense in the 18 years of the kenpom era with CK starting. Few understands what he contributes even if posters here don't. I wouldn't be looking for his minutes to drop.

Agreed.

thespywhozaggedme
03-31-2019, 04:59 PM
On Kispert, he does the little things that don't show up in the box score. Look at who inbounds the ball v late game full court presses. He moves the ball quickly in the half court, keeps the offense flowing. Doesn't take bad shots like Norvell.

In hs, he was once called the best shooter on the circuit. My take is that for the Zags, he doesn't get enough shots to really be in rhythm. With the offense focused on getting the ball inside, he doesn't get many attempts.

Bottom line is that this year's Zags had the third best offense in the 18 years of the kenpom era with CK starting. Few understands what he contributes even if posters here don't. I wouldn't be looking for his minutes to drop.

With all due respect, last night we needed him to do something that shows up in a boxscore; score a point.

maynard g krebs
03-31-2019, 05:17 PM
With all due respect, last night we needed him to do something that shows up in a boxscore; score a point.

His job on this team is to space the floor and hit open 3's, make the right reads and move the ball. He only got 3 shots yesterday. Every perimeter player misses 3 in a row sometimes. He's the fifth option. Look at few's comments after the FSU game for his perspective on CK.

Two years ago w/ NWG dominating the ball Perk disappeared on offense for long stretches and averaged about what CK is averaging this year. And we know what that team did. Players willingly accepting a secondary role should be appreciated rather than berated imo.

thespywhozaggedme
03-31-2019, 06:11 PM
His job on this team is to space the floor and hit open 3's, make the right reads and move the ball. He only got 3 shots yesterday. Every perimeter player misses 3 in a row sometimes. He's the fifth option. Look at few's comments after the FSU game for his perspective on CK.

Two years ago w/ NWG dominating the ball Perk disappeared on offense for long stretches and averaged about what CK is averaging this year. And we know what that team did. Players willingly accepting a secondary role should be appreciated rather than berated imo.

No one was "berated" that's equivalent to people calling others "haters" when they have a different opinion. Fact: CK didn't score a point yesterday, he was virtually invisible. He had a bad game and it's ok to admit it, it doesn't make you less of a fan.

thespywhozaggedme
03-31-2019, 06:15 PM
You are a gem. Really you should stop sharing this knowledge for free and monetize it by writing a book or doing infomercials. Your first chapter could be: Score more points than the other team. My secret to winning.

I don't understand posts like yours. Maynard said that CK does things that don't show up in a boxscore, but last night we needed just that. If I responded to your post the way you did mine, I suppose it would read as follows:

You are a gem. Really you should stop sharing this knowledge for free and monetize it by writing in a book or doing infomercials. Your first chapter could be: When someone has an opinion that differs from yours, don't rebut it with robust debate, instead condescend and insult with snarky barbs.


How'd I do?

vandalzag
03-31-2019, 07:11 PM
I don't understand posts like yours. Maynard said that CK does things that don't show up in a boxscore, but last night we needed just that. If I responded to your post the way you did mine, I suppose it would read as follows:

You are a gem. Really you should stop sharing this knowledge for free and monetize it by writing in a book or doing infomercials. Your first chapter could be: When someone has an opinion that differs from yours, don't rebut it with robust debate, instead condescend and insult with snarky barbs.


How'd I do?

To the bar you have set to date not bad, but it is a crazy low standard.

Iceman
03-31-2019, 07:14 PM
Norvell seems like a great kid, and he seems well-liked by his coaches and teammates. But if he declares right now, he has zero chance of being drafted by an NBA team. At this point in his career, Zach is a good, not great, catch-and-shoot guy. He cannot create his own shot. And when he tries to take it to the basket with authority, he tends to get rejected in spectacular fashion. He will come back next year.

Tillie may eventually have an NBA career, because he can shoot, and he is athletic. But given his injury history and his limited production, he would be a second rounder, at best, this year. I would love to see him return, be the man for the Zags next year, and jump into the first round.

adoptedzag
03-31-2019, 09:22 PM
Oh lord.. i am sitting here holding out hope that Clarke comes back. If Zack leaves too?? Yikes.

No chance Clarke comes back. He's a 1st rounder, if not a lottery pick.

BavarianZag
03-31-2019, 09:25 PM
On Kispert, he does the little things that don't show up in the box score. Look at who inbounds the ball v late game full court presses. He moves the ball quickly in the half court, keeps the offense flowing. Doesn't take bad shots like Norvell.

In hs, he was once called the best shooter on the circuit. My take is that for the Zags, he doesn't get enough shots to really be in rhythm. With the offense focused on getting the ball inside, he doesn't get many attempts.

Bottom line is that this year's Zags had the third best offense in the 18 years of the kenpom era with CK starting. Few understands what he contributes even if posters here don't. I wouldn't be looking for his minutes to drop.

Yes. This.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jpeppers
03-31-2019, 11:52 PM
Norvell seems like a great kid, and he seems well-liked by his coaches and teammates. But if he declares right now, he has zero chance of being drafted by an NBA team. At this point in his career, Zach is a good, not great, catch-and-shoot guy. He cannot create his own shot. And when he tries to take it to the basket with authority, he tends to get rejected in spectacular fashion. He will come back next year.

Tillie may eventually have an NBA career, because he can shoot, and he is athletic. But given his injury history and his limited production, he would be a second rounder, at best, this year. I would love to see him return, be the man for the Zags next year, and jump into the first round.

That would be a mistake along the lines of what Austin Day did! Players are now declaring way to early!

raise the zag
04-01-2019, 05:26 AM
That would be a mistake along the lines of what Austin Day did! Players are now declaring way to early!

and Gonzaga is getting the point where players actually feel antsy if they haven't declared or on NBA radars by their junior year!

We watch all these remaining teams, Auburn, Virginia, MSU, Purdue, Texas Tech and all look really good. Players with elite intangibles, yet for some reason Gonzaga has 3 NBA potential 1st Round prospects while the remaining teams have ONE?

Are you kidding me? So, is it our system glorifying these players to extent? Is it our media attention? The respect given by scouts, etc? Overhyped?

Are our players really that much better, even our friggin' bench guys are better than the opposition? I'm not so sure anymore. Do we feature them to the fullest extent? What could we do with a player like Tariq Owens from Texas Tech? Or some of those good shooting bigs from Auburn? The 7'1" kid for Virginia? At Gonzaga he's a lottery pick because our post player pedigree? See my point.

I think its getting carried away imho. We have had some really good ones, even specials ones (Sabonis), yet often times our system really accentuates their skills. More props to our ability to feature certain talents, yet some of these talents are overhyped compared to other teams as well --- who we could feature and develop as must-have NBA talents.

And IF Gonzaga truly has the most NBA prospects on its roster, didn't we just under-achieve a bit compared to the field? Along the lines of Kentucky and Duke.

Its getting to that point...

jazzdelmar
04-01-2019, 06:06 AM
Most of the other E8 teams had multiple, powerful guards. We had one, who was exhausted at the end of games and played valiantly. Geno was atrocious. Period. The die was cast early on when BW snubbed us for the 2d time (only to miss the NCs and wait for his Chipmunk coach to be cuffed). Inexplicably, we could not find a serviceable 2d ballhandler (Chux is equally atrocious at that), a la Mooney. The bigs may not be lotteries but they are terrific players and the college game is guards. Next year portends to be even worse.



and Gonzaga is getting the point where players actually feel antsy if they haven't declared or on NBA radars by their junior year!

We watch all these remaining teams, Auburn, Virginia, MSU, Purdue, Texas Tech and all look really good. Players with elite intangibles, yet for some reason Gonzaga has 3 NBA potential 1st Round prospects while the remaining teams have ONE?

Are you kidding me? So, is it our system glorifying these players to extent? Is it our media attention? The respect given by scouts, etc? Overhyped?

Are our players really that much better, even our friggin' bench guys are better than the opposition? I'm not so sure anymore. Do we feature them to the fullest extent? What could we do with a player like Tariq Owens from Texas Tech? Or some of those good shooting bigs from Auburn? The 7'1" kid for Virginia? At Gonzaga he's a lottery pick because our post player pedigree? See my point.

I think its getting carried away imho. We have had some really good ones, even specials ones (Sabonis), yet often times our system really accentuates their skills. More props to our ability to feature certain talents, yet some of these talents are overhyped compared to other teams as well --- who we could feature and develop as must-have NBA talents.

And IF Gonzaga truly has the most NBA prospects on its roster, didn't we just under-achieve a bit compared to the field? Along the lines of Kentucky and Duke.

Its getting to that point...

thespywhozaggedme
04-01-2019, 06:26 AM
and Gonzaga is getting the point where players actually feel antsy if they haven't declared or on NBA radars by their junior year!

We watch all these remaining teams, Auburn, Virginia, MSU, Purdue, Texas Tech and all look really good. Players with elite intangibles, yet for some reason Gonzaga has 3 NBA potential 1st Round prospects while the remaining teams have ONE?

Are you kidding me? So, is it our system glorifying these players to extent? Is it our media attention? The respect given by scouts, etc? Overhyped?

Are our players really that much better, even our friggin' bench guys are better than the opposition? I'm not so sure anymore. Do we feature them to the fullest extent? What could we do with a player like Tariq Owens from Texas Tech? Or some of those good shooting bigs from Auburn? The 7'1" kid for Virginia? At Gonzaga he's a lottery pick because our post player pedigree? See my point.

I think its getting carried away imho. We have had some really good ones, even specials ones (Sabonis), yet often times our system really accentuates their skills. More props to our ability to feature certain talents, yet some of these talents are overhyped compared to other teams as well --- who we could feature and develop as must-have NBA talents.

And IF Gonzaga truly has the most NBA prospects on its roster, didn't we just under-achieve a bit compared to the field? Along the lines of Kentucky and Duke.

Its getting to that point...

Yes, us, Duke, Carolina and Kentucky underachieved this year. It happens to teams every year. And yes us and Duke have the most NBA players on our respective rosters. We are a national powerhouse.

BurgessEraZag
04-01-2019, 07:08 AM
and Gonzaga is getting the point where players actually feel antsy if they haven't declared or on NBA radars by their junior year!

We watch all these remaining teams, Auburn, Virginia, MSU, Purdue, Texas Tech and all look really good. Players with elite intangibles, yet for some reason Gonzaga has 3 NBA potential 1st Round prospects while the remaining teams have ONE?

Are you kidding me? So, is it our system glorifying these players to extent? Is it our media attention? The respect given by scouts, etc? Overhyped?

Are our players really that much better, even our friggin' bench guys are better than the opposition? I'm not so sure anymore. Do we feature them to the fullest extent? What could we do with a player like Tariq Owens from Texas Tech? Or some of those good shooting bigs from Auburn? The 7'1" kid for Virginia? At Gonzaga he's a lottery pick because our post player pedigree? See my point.

I think its getting carried away imho. We have had some really good ones, even specials ones (Sabonis), yet often times our system really accentuates their skills. More props to our ability to feature certain talents, yet some of these talents are overhyped compared to other teams as well --- who we could feature and develop as must-have NBA talents.

And IF Gonzaga truly has the most NBA prospects on its roster, didn't we just under-achieve a bit compared to the field? Along the lines of Kentucky and Duke.

Its getting to that point...

Don't know who's hyping our players---us, this board---or the media. Last year we raised our stock at Portland tournament only to fall a little short later and this year we wake up the media and "alleged experts and talking heads" by dumping Duke in Maui. I think that's where the hype comes from. Few and Tommy have their feet on the ground and I strongly suspect they try to keep the team grounded. But young players do read the media and the blogs so not surprising it may trickle into their heads a little.

Don't blame us for the hype. We've seen our players play at their best and our adulation is warranted from those performances but.... In one of my earlier posts I talked about
"bringing it" every day. That's hard to do for anyone, even very talented players. Even for us everyday fans or people. Zags just didn't "bring it" to their full capability in the second half Saturday. And I disagree with the word "underachieved" we just didn't play our best.

Just look at the FF. Every team is mature, talented and experienced and of course led by a very talented point guards (there you go Jazz). Perkins is great and he took us as far as he could this year. That's what we expected. But the performances of Harper from Auburn, Winston at Mich St, the Tech guards and UVA guards performed to championship level. Perk played well but he has "played better" at times this year.

I predicted some time ago Duke would do well if they let Jones do more leading. Problem with Duke is Zion and Barrett tried to win the games by themselves. Duke doesn't survive Virginia Tech without Jones.

So Jazz and RTZ let's spend some time praying that the recruiting process going on "behind closed doors" with Few, Tommy, Donny and Michaelson comes up with a great point guard. With the young talent coming in we MUST HAVE A TERRIFIC point guard if we want to go deep in the Dance.

Love the Zags, love this board and the smart and introspective posts by knowledgable BB members.

GoZags

MontanaCoyote
04-01-2019, 08:17 AM
and Gonzaga is getting the point where players actually feel antsy if they haven't declared or on NBA radars by their junior year!

We watch all these remaining teams, Auburn, Virginia, MSU, Purdue, Texas Tech and all look really good. Players with elite intangibles, yet for some reason Gonzaga has 3 NBA potential 1st Round prospects while the remaining teams have ONE?

Are you kidding me? So, is it our system glorifying these players to extent? Is it our media attention? The respect given by scouts, etc? Overhyped?

Are our players really that much better, even our friggin' bench guys are better than the opposition? I'm not so sure anymore. Do we feature them to the fullest extent? What could we do with a player like Tariq Owens from Texas Tech? Or some of those good shooting bigs from Auburn? The 7'1" kid for Virginia? At Gonzaga he's a lottery pick because our post player pedigree? See my point.

I think its getting carried away imho. We have had some really good ones, even specials ones (Sabonis), yet often times our system really accentuates their skills. More props to our ability to feature certain talents, yet some of these talents are overhyped compared to other teams as well --- who we could feature and develop as must-have NBA talents.

And IF Gonzaga truly has the most NBA prospects on its roster, didn't we just under-achieve a bit compared to the field? Along the lines of Kentucky and Duke.

Its getting to that point...

Some truth here. Somewhat along these lines,; It’s been in the back of my mind for a while, but the T Tech game convinced me that, on paper, Rui and Clarke are NOT ready for the NBA. The NBA, no doubt, IS ready for them, but were it not for the money (which you sure can’t fault them for taking) another year at the college level WOULD serve them well. Clarke for his
shooting, Rui for mental and physical toughness.

I KNOW they’re both GONE, that the risk of injury is too great to stay, and that they can develop the skills they need (probably coming off the bench in the NBA like Collins has) to be successful NBA players. That’s my reality check. Just saying they both COULD USE another year at the college level.

Gonzaga SURE COULD! Wish them both well even thinking, “ I don’t like it but I guess things happen that way.”

Ladyzag12
04-01-2019, 04:41 PM
Some truth here. Somewhat along these lines,; It’s been in the back of my mind for a while, but the T Tech game convinced me that, on paper, Rui and Clarke are NOT ready for the NBA. The NBA, no doubt, IS ready for them, but were it not for the money (which you sure can’t fault them for taking) another year at the college level WOULD serve them well. Clarke for his
shooting, Rui for mental and physical toughness.

I KNOW they’re both GONE, that the risk of injury is too great to stay, and that they can develop the skills they need (probably coming off the bench in the NBA like Collins has) to be successful NBA players. That’s my reality check. Just saying they both COULD USE another year at the college level.

Gonzaga SURE COULD! Wish them both well even thinking, “ I don’t like it but I guess things happen that way.”

Clarke is already 22 and a defensive specialist. I don't think there is more development at the college that he will get that he can not also get at the NBA, specifically his jumpshot.Rui is hard to tell. He needs a consistent three point shot at the next level and his passing has to get way better. Neither of them will ever be doubled in the NBA, and there is way more space to play.

White lightning
04-01-2019, 08:29 PM
Yes, us, Duke, Carolina and Kentucky underachieved this year. It happens to teams every year. And yes us and Duke have the most NBA players on our respective rosters. We are a national powerhouse.I agree with Raise the zag, Gonzags get overhyped . We have 2 possibly 3 players that will get drafted and may work into a starting roster on a NBA team. All three juniors. None came in as a high recruit out of high school. Duke has 3 freshman, 5 star recruits who will get drafted and most likely make a NBA team . Next year Duke will again have 2 or 3 5 star recruits doing the same.

Until Gonzaga starts winning over 40% of their games against top 25 ranked teams they are "hold your breath" not a NATIONAL POWER HOUSE.

Zags get the benefit of playing a good ooc schedule, performing well in march, and running a fantastic, clean program. If you remove the wcc games against Saint Mary's when they are ranked it falls below the 4 out of 10 clip.



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gonzagafan62
04-02-2019, 04:44 AM
I agree with Raise the zag, Gonzags get overhyped . We have 2 possibly 3 players that will get drafted and may work into a starting roster on a NBA team. All three juniors. None came in as a high recruit out of high school. Duke has 3 freshman, 5 star recruits who will get drafted and most likely make a NBA team . Next year Duke will again have 2 or 3 5 star recruits doing the same.

Until Gonzaga starts winning over 40% of their games against top 25 ranked teams they are "hold your breath" not a NATIONAL POWER HOUSE.

Zags get the benefit of playing a good ooc schedule, performing well in march, and running a fantastic, clean program. If you remove the wcc games against Saint Mary's when they are ranked it falls below the 4 out of 10 clip.



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Exactly

gonzagafan62
04-02-2019, 04:47 AM
and Gonzaga is getting the point where players actually feel antsy if they haven't declared or on NBA radars by their junior year!

We watch all these remaining teams, Auburn, Virginia, MSU, Purdue, Texas Tech and all look really good. Players with elite intangibles, yet for some reason Gonzaga has 3 NBA potential 1st Round prospects while the remaining teams have ONE?

Are you kidding me? So, is it our system glorifying these players to extent? Is it our media attention? The respect given by scouts, etc? Overhyped?

Are our players really that much better, even our friggin' bench guys are better than the opposition? I'm not so sure anymore. Do we feature them to the fullest extent? What could we do with a player like Tariq Owens from Texas Tech? Or some of those good shooting bigs from Auburn? The 7'1" kid for Virginia? At Gonzaga he's a lottery pick because our post player pedigree? See my point.

I think its getting carried away imho. We have had some really good ones, even specials ones (Sabonis), yet often times our system really accentuates their skills. More props to our ability to feature certain talents, yet some of these talents are overhyped compared to other teams as well --- who we could feature and develop as must-have NBA talents.

And IF Gonzaga truly has the most NBA prospects on its roster, didn't we just under-achieve a bit compared to the field? Along the lines of Kentucky and Duke.

Its getting to that point...

This is total overreaction, (again) but Jazz seems to have hit it accurately in my opinion.

No guys aren’t overhyped based on 40 mind of b-ball lol.

DixieZag
04-02-2019, 05:30 AM
I agree with Raise the zag, Gonzags get overhyped . We have 2 possibly 3 players that will get drafted and may work into a starting roster on a NBA team. All three juniors. None came in as a high recruit out of high school. Duke has 3 freshman, 5 star recruits who will get drafted and most likely make a NBA team . Next year Duke will again have 2 or 3 5 star recruits doing the same.

Until Gonzaga starts winning over 40% of their games against top 25 ranked teams they are "hold your breath" not a NATIONAL POWER HOUSE.

Zags get the benefit of playing a good ooc schedule, performing well in march, and running a fantastic, clean program. If you remove the wcc games against Saint Mary's when they are ranked it falls below the 4 out of 10 clip.



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

When you have made the Elite 8 or better in 3 of the last 5 years, and been to the Sweet Sixteen 5 years in a row, you ARE a national powerhouse.

Sorry, but Pangos, Wilt and Bell ran up against Duke, a team that won the NC, and we just couldn't hang 40 minutes with them (we could hang 35 minutes, proved that), then we went to the NC with NWG and might well have won it all had we not been "strangely reffed" in the last 4 minutes, and then this year's team ran up against Tech - which MANY here said was the WORST match-up for this team WEEKS prior to the tournament, and the game was called such that a guy could literally tackle BC over his back and "turn him over" rather than pick up a 3 or 4 foul.

Once a team is in in the Elite 8, you ARE a national power, you're one of 8 teams left out of 356, and we've done it 3 years in the last 5. I do NOT think GU is "over-hyped" - we just lacked one more ball handler to help poor Perk out against swarming Defense, and people knew it before the tournament.

Yet still, a couple of those 3s go in for us, and rim out for them, and we're talking Final Four and possible NCs. Seems really silly to be making sweeping generalizations when teams make it to the E8 and are NOT blown-out in any way, it comes down to little little things.

No crying over spilled milk. These kids are warriors, and I love them. The tourney is a one game season, and making sweeping comments over how one game went - especially a close game - seems nutty.

Birddog
04-02-2019, 06:26 AM
Posting guidelines PSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9q2jNjOPdk

hooter73
04-02-2019, 08:22 AM
and Gonzaga is getting the point where players actually feel antsy if they haven't declared or on NBA radars by their junior year!

We watch all these remaining teams, Auburn, Virginia, MSU, Purdue, Texas Tech and all look really good. Players with elite intangibles, yet for some reason Gonzaga has 3 NBA potential 1st Round prospects while the remaining teams have ONE?

Are you kidding me? So, is it our system glorifying these players to extent? Is it our media attention? The respect given by scouts, etc? Overhyped?

Are our players really that much better, even our friggin' bench guys are better than the opposition? I'm not so sure anymore. Do we feature them to the fullest extent? What could we do with a player like Tariq Owens from Texas Tech? Or some of those good shooting bigs from Auburn? The 7'1" kid for Virginia? At Gonzaga he's a lottery pick because our post player pedigree? See my point.

I think its getting carried away imho. We have had some really good ones, even specials ones (Sabonis), yet often times our system really accentuates their skills. More props to our ability to feature certain talents, yet some of these talents are overhyped compared to other teams as well --- who we could feature and develop as must-have NBA talents.

And IF Gonzaga truly has the most NBA prospects on its roster, didn't we just under-achieve a bit compared to the field? Along the lines of Kentucky and Duke.

Its getting to that point...

:clap:

White lightning
04-02-2019, 09:10 AM
When you have made the Elite 8 or better in 3 of the last 5 years, and been to the Sweet Sixteen 5 years in a row, you ARE a national powerhouse.

Sorry, but Pangos, Wilt and Bell ran up against Duke, a team that won the NC, and we just couldn't hang 40 minutes with them (we could hang 35 minutes, proved that), then we went to the NC with NWG and might well have won it all had we not been "strangely reffed" in the last 4 minutes, and then this year's team ran up against Tech - which MANY here said was the WORST match-up for this team WEEKS prior to the tournament, and the game was called such that a guy could literally tackle BC over his back and "turn him over" rather than pick up a 3 or 4 foul.

Once a team is in in the Elite 8, you ARE a national power, you're one of 8 teams left out of 356, and we've done it 3 years in the last 5. I do NOT think GU is "over-hyped" - we just lacked one more ball handler to help poor Perk out against swarming Defense, and people knew it before the tournament.

Yet still, a couple of those 3s go in for us, and rim out for them, and we're talking Final Four and possible NCs. Seems really silly to be making sweeping generalizations when teams make it to the E8 and are NOT blown-out in any way, it comes down to little little things.

No crying over spilled milk. These kids are warriors, and I love them. The tourney is a one game season, and making sweeping comments over how one game went - especially a close game - seems nutty.I totally agree Gonzaga normally overachives with the talent they have had over the years. The run they have been on is amazing and spoils us all.

Not being able to consistantly win the majority of games against top 25 opponents is where we differ in opinion on being a powerhouse. 40% win ratio isn't getting it done.

That's why we seem to fall out of the tournament at the sw 16 or elite 8 stage. We run into those top teams and yes 2 out of 5 times we win. Just like this season and many past seasons. But 3 out of 5 we are going home. Zags are nearing the crest to getting to top level. Hopefully these next few recruiting classes will get us there.

I'm not sure of the winning % of the Duke and North Carolina have against ranked opponents but I'm sure its over 50% which makes them powerhouses .

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Ladyzag12
04-02-2019, 01:55 PM
I don't people should think that we are getting our players overhyped. While this year's team has multiple first rounders, in general a GU team may have one first round guy and a few mature guys that are in that second round to summer league invite range. None of the bigs that have made the league from GU have been busts relative to their draft position.