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former1dog
11-08-2007, 09:42 AM
At the end of last season, there was a lot of speculation regarding Gurganious ranging from he might transfer to another school or that his playing days might be over for good.

None of the speculation seemed to be positive and from my perspective the speculation seemed to be legitimate and probably was.

Which is why I have to send some love LG's way. Here's a kid who truly overcame some tough odds and now looks to be a significant contributor on a team stacked with talent, when the prospects looked like he would be on the outside looking in. Great job, LG. IMO, a great success story that deserves some attention.

sittingon50
11-08-2007, 09:49 AM
I found myself rooting for LG more than anyone else last night. He was trying SO hard. A lot of rust, but he'll get there.

mendiant
11-08-2007, 10:01 AM
mendiant hugs LG, says "great job! Glad your back is better" :)

cggonzaga
11-08-2007, 10:16 AM
I also have a lot of love for LG. His offense still needs quite a bit of work but he's just great on defense. He's really good in that half court trap.

TheZagPhish
11-08-2007, 10:52 AM
His name mentioned over and over last night told me the story I came to miss so much last season. Gurganious is all energy and like a dog on a bone vis a vis his assignments. I remember he'd hunch down on D and, arms outstretched, would bore holes into his opponent's head with an icy gaze.

Man, it's nice to have Larry back.

Larryzag
11-08-2007, 10:57 AM
LG could work his way into starting if his offense comes around, which I think it will. Our best teams have always had the defensive stopper. He set the defensive tone last night. Matt has to score to justify his spot as a starter because LG defends so well and has great athleticism. Few is going to have to play LG alot against top notch guards.

MedZag
11-08-2007, 11:07 AM
Fans have short memories. Being out last year was tough as all hell on L. He's hungry.

CDC84
11-08-2007, 11:18 AM
That injury he had last season could've easily ended his career. He is so fortunate to be playing ball again.

If there is anyone on this team that deserves to have good things happen to him, it's LG.....he is about as nice of a kid as you will find at his age. There were many stories last year of him holding open doors at K2 for elderly fans and greeting them with a warm smile and such. And this was at a time when his playing career was being threatened and you could easily understand anyone being a bit self absorbed....even more so considering that he is soft spoken and kind of quiet.

ZagNative
11-08-2007, 11:20 AM
Nice photo of LG from the SR on-line photo album (http://www.spokesmanreview.com/zags/photo.asp?showid=403&photo=1) of last night's game:


http://www.spokesmanreview.com/media/slideshows/20071107_zags/r_10.jpg
Emporia State's Dustin Andrews, front left, watches Gonzaga's Larry
Gurganious attempt to grab a rebound as Gonzaga's Steven Gray, back left,
and David Pendergraft look on. (Ingrid Barrentine/Associated Press)

former1dog
11-08-2007, 11:24 AM
Wow, thanks ZN.

LG has certainly grown up. Definitely sporting a manly look.

ZagNative
11-08-2007, 11:37 AM
Isn't that a great photo? I had scrounged all over the net over the past few months trying to find good action shots of LG, to little avail. I hope this will be the first of many memorable shots of the young man in action. I'm so excited for him!

DoggieDogpound
11-08-2007, 11:43 AM
LG could work his way into starting if his offense comes around, which I think it will. Our best teams have always had the defensive stopper. He set the defensive tone last night. Matt has to score to justify his spot as a starter because LG defends so well and has great athleticism. Few is going to have to play LG alot against top notch guards.

Great to hear his back is better - I agree with Larryzag that he should get significant playing time as a defensive stopper. Hopefully he can start knocking down a few shots and develop confidence on offense.

cggonzaga
11-08-2007, 11:45 AM
Matt has to score to justify his spot as a starter because LG defends so well and has great athleticism. Few is going to have to play LG alot against top notch guards.


Completely disagree. What's with all the Matt bashing lately? He is in no danger of losing his starting job. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Matt is our best all around player. The coaching staff loves him because he knows how to play the game. They never have to worry about him.

Reborn
11-08-2007, 11:47 AM
LG is a warrior and will fight his way onto the court. He's the kind of guy that you CAN'T keep off the court because he contributes in a way none other do. He's special that way. I think he's a great fit on the court with Pargo. They are two great defensive players.

former1dog
11-08-2007, 11:51 AM
Completely disagree. What's with all the Matt bashing lately? He is in no danger of losing his starting job. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Matt is our best all around player. The coaching staff loves him because he knows how to play the game. They never have to worry about him.

I don't think there has been much Matt bashing. One thing that is atypical of this situation, though, is that Gonzaga shooting guards are usually lights out shooters. Matt hasn't distinguished himself in this regard (yet) and so I think the typical GU fan has some concerns about this.

I, for one, am a big Matt Bouldin fan and I agree he is one of the most well rounded players on the team.

cggonzaga
11-08-2007, 11:59 AM
One thing that is atypical of this situation, though, is that Gonzaga shooting guards are usually lights out shooters.

Maybe I'm forgetting about certain people but which great shooter from recent teams played shooting guard?

Dickau - point
Fraham - small forward
Morrison - small forward
Ravio - point/shooting guard
Stepp - point/shooting guard (wouldn't necessarily call him a lights out shooter)

Our shooting guards have almost never been lights out shooters with the one exception being Drav from last year only.

former1dog
11-08-2007, 12:03 PM
I appreciate your support of Bouldin, which I share.

Let's not get into a degenerative discussion. I think its fair to say that Bouldin needs to improve his outside shooting. Agree?

a13coach
11-08-2007, 12:04 PM
Great to see LG out there. Very happy for him. Way to come back LG!!!

lothar98zag
11-08-2007, 12:46 PM
Completely disagree. What's with all the Matt bashing lately? He is in no danger of losing his starting job. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Matt is our best all around player. The coaching staff loves him because he knows how to play the game. They never have to worry about him.
:agreed:

lothar98zag
11-08-2007, 12:47 PM
That injury he had last season could've easily ended his career. He is so fortunate to be playing ball again.

If there is anyone on this team that deserves to have good things happen to him, it's LG.....he is about as nice of a kid as you will find at his age. There were many stories last year of him holding open doors at K2 for elderly fans and greeting them with a warm smile and such. And this was at a time when his playing career was being threatened and you could easily understand anyone being a bit self absorbed....even more so considering that he is soft spoken and kind of quiet.
:agreed: X100

D Hark 2003
11-08-2007, 01:05 PM
I hope he develops a three point shot and Gary Payton the glove style, in your face on ball defense! We sure could use some on ball defensive pressure for our three quarter court press.

cggonzaga
11-08-2007, 01:13 PM
Let's not get into a degenerative discussion. I think its fair to say that Bouldin needs to improve his outside shooting. Agree?


I agree but don't think it's terrible at the same time. No offense to a Drav but I'd much rather have a Matt Bouldin type playing the two. With Downs and Gray able to knock down the three consistently and Pargo and Bouldin able to do it enough to keep the defense honest I don't see any problem with Matt.

I'm not turning this into a degenerative conversation. I've read more about our shooting guards being great shooters in the past and I'd just like to know who they are? We've had great shooters, they just haven't played the 2 like a few are saying around here. It's not imperative to our offense.

Reborn
11-08-2007, 01:42 PM
I believe that it's almost a fact in modern day basketball that a great team has very good 3 pt shooters. For one, if you have them (yes them...I'd say a team needs at least two of them on the floor at one time) it forces the defenders to play up on them more, thus opening up the middle more for a great guard like Pargo to penetrate. It also keeps teams from doubling up down low (on Josh or Sacre).

Because Matt has been inconsistent to not good from the 3 pt line it will diminish his minutes and role on this team. This, in my opinion, is not Matt Bashing, it's a realistic assessment. Hopefully, he can find more consistency from the 3 pt line this year.

Matt is also, imo, not a good defender and is often responsible for opposing teams to get so many 3's against the Zags. With Daye, with that huge wingspread, and LG as tough as nails, I just think these guys will eventually play more minutes than Matt unless he improves on his D as well. I don't see this as bashing either. Just sharing an opinion on a basketball board. I'm not saying I'm right either. It's just how I see it.

This is a collection of very good players this year, and as we've all said, or at least most of us, everyone will be pressed to improve their game in areas that they are weak....and this is a good thing and will only make us a much better team.

CDC84
11-08-2007, 01:57 PM
Our shooting guards have almost never been lights out shooters with the one exception being Drav from last year only.

Kyle Bankhead was a sharpshooter deluxe, although he wasn't one for taking a lot of shots.

The concerns about Bouldin's outside shooting really only come into being because of who he is starting alongside in backcourt: Jeremy Pargo. If Pargo were a consistent 43% 3 point shooter, Bouldin's lack of sharpshooting prowess wouldn't even be an issue to consider. But there is no denying that Gonzaga over the last several seasons has had at least one guy in the starting backcourt that could stick it from deep consistently. Now maybe Pargo or Bouldin will develop into sharpshooters this season, but on paper right now, they simply aren't.

ZagMania
11-08-2007, 02:13 PM
RayG, since I know you most likely stop by to read my posts, please consider my suggestion of taking Pargo, LG, Ira, Daye, and Kuso aside during practice and teach them how to put on a nasty full court press with LG harassing the other teams PG.

cggonzaga
11-08-2007, 02:22 PM
I believe that it's almost a fact in modern day basketball that a great team has very good 3 pt shooters. For one, if you have them (yes them...I'd say a team needs at least two of them on the floor at one time) it forces the defenders to play up on them more, thus opening up the middle more for a great guard like Pargo to penetrate. It also keeps teams from doubling up down low (on Josh or Sacre).


I'd say that's one huge misconception then. I'm trying to think of the last "great" team that shot the three ball very well. I don't believe any of last year's final four teams did. The last couple NBA champions haven't either, Spurs & Pistons.


The concerns about Bouldin's outside shooting really only come into being because of who he is starting alongside in backcourt: Jeremy Pargo. If Pargo were a consistent 43% 3 point shooter, Bouldin's lack of sharpshooting prowess wouldn't even be an issue to consider. But there is no denying that Gonzaga over the last several seasons has had at least one guy in the starting backcourt that could stick it from deep consistently. Now maybe Pargo or Bouldin will develop into sharpshooters this season, but on paper right now, they simply aren't.


Don't you think this is being blown out of proportion? Downs is our three point threat. When Pargo, Bouldin, Downs and Josh are on the court there's 4 guys that are capable of knocking them down. You just have to able to knock them down to keep the defense honest. Not everyone has to shoot 40% from the three point line. Just be a threat. That's all it takes for a defender to get up on you.

zag67
11-08-2007, 02:50 PM
But let us say that Pargo and Bouldin are not are consistent 3 point shooters under pressure. We do have Downs, Josh, Daye, and Gray that I would consider being very good 3 point shooters. Now you can use Pargo to drive and dish, Matt to post up and dish it back out. Both of them are great passers and neither of them should be thought of being a really bad 3 point shooter. If I were a coach, I would not leave Matt or Pargo wide open to shoot a 3. Matt was 1 out of 2 in the last game.

So, now my real question would be, what is realistic "good" 3 point percentage and how many 3s do you want them shootng a game? 1, 3, or 5 shots a game? 40%? 45%?

FYI. Last year Derek ended up with about 41 percent (2.5 per game) and Matt/Jeremy ended up with about 37 percent (1.5 shots per game and that percentage includes that one streak where Matt could not make any). As a team we ended up shooting an average of only 6 3s per game. So I think the "threat" of shooting is as important as the shot.

I do feel that being able to make the 3 opens the court. But I also think that the main thing is that the other team does not dare leave any of our players open to shoot the 3. They know our players will shoot the 3 when open. If they have to guard all of them, then they cannot sag down on the bigs and it will leave the court open for Jeremy/Matt/Micah to drive and then shoot or kick it out.

But like was said earlier, this is my opinion.

former1dog
11-08-2007, 02:53 PM
Hey! How 'bout that Larry Gurganious!!

;) :D

Reborn
11-08-2007, 03:02 PM
cggonzaga says, "I'd say that's one huge misconception then. I'm trying to think of the last "great" team that shot the three ball very well. I don't believe any of last year's final four teams did. The last couple NBA champions haven't either, Spurs & Pistons."

I guess we really don't see the game through the same lenses then. But it has been said that I have a pair of rose colored lenses. I thought Florida and UCLA had very good outside shooters. As did just about all the teams in the Sweet 16.

Spokanicoug
11-08-2007, 03:09 PM
Stepp - point/shooting guard (wouldn't necessarily call him a lights out shooter)



He was when I watched him drain 8 STRAIGHT from downtown in a second half not too long ago.

former1dog
11-08-2007, 03:10 PM
Hey! How 'bout that Larry Gurganious!!

;) :D

This thread got hijacked and its partly my fault. :(

Spokanicoug
11-08-2007, 03:18 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Matt is our best all around player. The coaching staff loves

J. Pargo and I had a good laugh at that.

Argentum
11-08-2007, 03:34 PM
I agree Spokanicoug, Stepp was a great 3 point shooter. Unfortunately he didn't shoot well in the last couple games of his senior year after taking a hit to the head (forget the opponent) and that may have stuck in people's mind.

Reborn
11-08-2007, 03:34 PM
Spokanicoug says, "J. Pargo and I had a good laugh at that."

it was a hoot wasn't it......:lmao:

cggonzaga
11-08-2007, 03:46 PM
J. Pargo and I had a good laugh at that

That's great you guys are friends. I wonder what the coaches would say though? (FWIW Pargo is my favorite player and second best all around player imo)


I agree Spokanicoug, Stepp was a great 3 point shooter. Unfortunately he didn't shoot well in the last couple games of his senior year after taking a hit to the head (forget the opponent) and that may have stuck in people's mind.

I included him as one of our great shooters. He was a bit streaky and Blake himself would admit that. I'd definitely have him as one of our most clutch shooters ever.


This thread got hijacked and its partly my fault.

I'm more to blame Former. I'm a huge LG fan and wasn't trying to take anything away from him. Just don't think people should be negative about another player to make a point. Also, as good as LG is I don't think he moves ahead of a healthy Matt on the depth chart any time soon.

former1dog
11-08-2007, 03:47 PM
Just don't think people should be negative about another player to make a point.

I wholeheartedly agree!

CDC84
11-08-2007, 04:32 PM
Don't you think this is being blown out of proportion? Downs is our three point threat. When Pargo, Bouldin, Downs and Josh are on the court there's 4 guys that are capable of knocking them down. You just have to able to knock them down to keep the defense honest. Not everyone has to shoot 40% from the three point line. Just be a threat. That's all it takes for a defender to get up on you.

Given that Gonzaga has had at least one sharpshooter in the backcourt since Few took over, and given that Gonzaga year after year has one of the top offenses in the nation, I don't think it's blowing things out of proportion to at least have some concerns about how the offense might be if Pargo and Bouldin continue to be inconsistent with their long range shooting. Notice the word consistency. Consistency cannot be measured through 3 point shooting percentage. For instance, if you take away 6 straight games during WCC play last season, Pargo was a below 30% shooter from 3 point land. Similarly, Bouldin went through a period last season where he missed something like 17 straight 3 pointers. Both were inconsistent.

I don't think either guy is consistent enough as an outside shooter to keep defenses honest. Again, maybe they will turn out to be this season, but on paper they aren't right now. If I were the average WCC team, I would instruct my guards to lay off of them and dare them to shoot from beyond the 3 point line. Don't let them in the lane.

I am not guaranteeing that this will be a problem. Perhaps my concerns will end up not being a concern. But being that things in the backcourt are so different this year, I am not 100% sold on the idea that everything will be fine if both Pargo and Bouldin can't consistently nail long range shots.

zag67
11-08-2007, 05:28 PM
I also remember Matt missing all of those 3s. For the year, Matt shot 29 out of 80. So if you forget that one stretch, then he shot 46% for the year. Now, I realize you cannot do that, but the rest of the year he shot very good. As a coach, you would not leave him alone.

This year I also think that we have the luxury of having many more weapons at the 3 point line. There is Micah, Gray, Daye, and Josh. You then even have Pendo and Ira that could also put in the dagger. So if one of them is off on the 3s, then that person has to put out more effort in other areas (rebounding, defense, assists, ????) and let others on the team cover you there.

We all want all of them to improve, now lets hope it happens and the coaches can help make it happen. I did not see that much that would cause me to have a major concern.

MickMick
11-08-2007, 05:58 PM
People worry how Mark Few will cope with great depth. After reading this thread, the same can be said for Zag Nation. Is there a way we can just appreciate them all?

zag67
11-08-2007, 06:24 PM
That is kinda what I was trying to get at. Just appreciate what we have and let it roll. We will have some good and bad. And let us hope that the good outweighs the bad. We have a group of GREAT players, so we need to appreciate all of them and praise the good.

RenoZag
11-08-2007, 06:40 PM
:000tens:


That is kinda what I was trying to get at. Just appreciate what we have and let it roll. We will have some good and bad. And let us hope that the good outweighs the bad. We have a group of GREAT players, so we need to appreciate all of them and praise the good.

GonzagaGurl08
11-08-2007, 06:43 PM
I agree, well said Zag67!!!

primal23
11-08-2007, 07:47 PM
SO SO SO SO SO SO glad to have LG back, and ready for action! Welcome back LG!!!

sittingon50
11-08-2007, 08:26 PM
Tried to PM you. Anyway to get in touch?

former1dog
11-08-2007, 08:30 PM
Tried to PM you. Anyway to get in touch?

Check your inbox. :) :o

ZagNut08
11-08-2007, 10:01 PM
fun seeing ira and lg out there on defense last night...they could be a handful for opponents this year...if we ever get out of our horrid zone

Reborn
11-09-2007, 03:42 PM
Zag67 says "That is kinda what I was trying to get at. Just appreciate what we have and let it roll. We will have some good and bad. And let us hope that the good outweighs the bad. We have a group of GREAT players, so we need to appreciate all of them and praise the good."

That's a very nice statement. However, for me basketball is a very competitive game, and the more competitive the team is among themselves the better they will be. I see no harm at all in pointing out weakness that the players have, nor is it a foul to compare players' strengths and weaknesses. I certainly don't have any insight into it all, I just like being a Zag fan, and for me that means that I get to be competive in my postings and disagree when I feel inclined to. I do NOT believe in being cruel, nor do I believe in back stabbing. I'm just an old fashioned straight shooter who tells it like he sees 'em. To criticize, at least for me, is not to DISLIKE. But then I grew up in a big Catholic family who held a debating session every night around the supper table...we were raised on crilticism. And if you couldn't take it then you just ate by yourself in the living room on a TV tray.

I see nothing wrong with a "good 'ol fight" once in awhile on a thread. And I guess I have instigated a few of them.