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View Full Version : How GU gets screwed by the Selection Committee



sheps001
03-24-2019, 03:24 AM
According to the Bracket Matrix Project which is a compendium of projected brackets made by a large number of gurus, FSU was a clear three, in fact the second three. The committee forced a Sweet Sixteen matchup with GU by making FSU a four and moving them out West in our bracket, the West Regional Bracket. They did this to draw ratings. IE this is a big intersectional grudge matchup. I checked the final AP top 25 (3/18) as confirmation of FSU's rating as a three. The AP lists them number 10 and us number 4. Transposed into seedings this is a clear Elite Eight matchup, one v three. The committee disregards both of these seeding prognostications and forces the matchup into the Sweet Sixteen which is not fair to us. We should be facing FSU in the Elite Eight (If anywhere). This also happened to Wisconsin, a team my friend follows. They were a five and were purposely bumped to a four and moved out West to play Oregon. Again, this is a big intersectional power conference matchup that would draw ratings. And I am sure if you checked any number of other matchups you'd see the same thing. Not fair.

Bouldin4Prez
03-24-2019, 03:55 AM
Stop complaining. Itís the sweet 16. If we canít beat Florida St, then we donít deserve to win the championship anyways.

sheps001
03-24-2019, 04:07 AM
Setting out the facts. Its really interesting to see what is going on and I wasn't aware of this before. And it applies to so many matchups. Think on that

raise the zag
03-24-2019, 04:23 AM
Stop complaining. Itís the sweet 16. If we canít beat Florida St, then we donít deserve to win the championship anyways.

Yup.

Sometimes I have to remind myself of this as well.

While I view them as the single worst matchup in College hoops for Zags, been saying it all season, it really doesn't matter when/were we face them.

Now...the Elite 8...even the Final 4.

The goal these days is a Title.

caduceus
03-24-2019, 04:24 AM
Setting out the facts. Its really interesting to see what is going on and I wasn't aware of this before. And it applies to so many matchups. Think on that

http://i.imgur.com/54NdubA.gif

Zagger
03-24-2019, 04:33 AM
Not fair? I really don’t get it. 64 teams have got to get seeded & bracketed. Can we expect that’ll ever happen such that it’ll be “fair”? As in fair to each team? The whole mish mash is part art, part science anyway. While we’re debating fair seeding there are some teams that didn’t get into the Dance that would sure like to be there - May even deserve to be there. They surely would not complain about being matched up with a #1 seed.

Beat FSU!

gueastcoast
03-24-2019, 04:54 AM
Wisconsin was a 5 fyi

GoZags
03-24-2019, 05:14 AM
As a 4 the West is the only region where they could be placed and not potentially face a conference opponent as the other 3 #1 seeds are all from the ACC.

MickMick
03-24-2019, 05:20 AM
The first weekend weeds out the pretenders. There is no such thing as an easy path on weekend number two. Especially if the field is top heavy and goes chalk. Every single team that won yesterday would be a very difficult matchup, including Auburn and Purdue.

Respect is earned. Beating great teams builds legacy and culture. It draws recruits. It wins television contracts and causes people to stay up late to actually watch games. The upside outweighs everything else.

GU has a score to settle with FSU. Further, Michigan, although a great team and returning from the final four, is probably the most winnable two seed draw (which says more about the strength of the field than it does about Michigan).

jazzdelmar
03-24-2019, 05:42 AM
Bingo.


The first weekend weeds out the pretenders. There is no such thing as an easy path on weekend number two. Especially if the field is top heavy and goes chalk. Every single team that won yesterday would be a very difficult matchup, including Auburn and Purdue.

Respect is earned. Beating great teams builds legacy and culture. It draws recruits. It wins television contracts and causes people to stay up late to actually watch games. The upside outweighs everything else.

GU has a score to settle with FSU. Further, Michigan, although a great team and returning from the final four, is probably the most winnable two seed draw (which says more about the strength of the field than it does about Michigan).

DixieZag
03-24-2019, 06:30 AM
The first weekend weeds out the pretenders. There is no such thing as an easy path on weekend number two. Especially if the field is top heavy and goes chalk. Every single team that won yesterday would be a very difficult matchup, including Auburn and Purdue.

Respect is earned. Beating great teams builds legacy and culture. It draws recruits. It wins television contracts and causes people to stay up late to actually watch games. The upside outweighs everything else.

GU has a score to settle with FSU. Further, Michigan, although a great team and returning from the final four, is probably the most winnable two seed draw (which says more about the strength of the field than it does about Michigan).

True, but it does seem to me that FSU is far and away the best four seed. If we just leave it at that point, and not attempt to make it about "unfairness" and just more "frustration" then it becomes more sensible.

No one had FSU, the team that just beat Virginia, previously the tournament number one overall seed, to go to the ACC final as anything lower than a 3, some had them a 2. It was surprising.

And frustrating, bc I am not sure there's a team playing better right now. Over the last 3 weeks.

gonzagafan62
03-24-2019, 06:46 AM
Goal is titles not elite eights. To win a title you’re going to have to beat 3 teams like this most likely.

Plainsman
03-24-2019, 07:25 AM
In the immortal words of Dave Dickinson: "To be the best, you've gotta beat the best". Pretty much says it all-I'm pretty sure the coaches and team aren't wringing their hands and agonizing over what FSU's seeding is or should have been or what region they should have been placed in to be "fair". They will be too busy drawing up and buying into a game plan to beat the next team up.

Zagsker
03-24-2019, 07:47 AM
Good thing some of you are not playing FSU...good grief, bring on the Noles!

Ezag
03-24-2019, 07:54 AM
Rather play them now and get it out of the way. We just need rui and snacks to show up.

zagamatic
03-24-2019, 07:59 AM
I'd rather have the staff and team have a week to prepare specifically for FSU than get them on a short turnaround. And honestly, I'd rather be playing them than Purdue. Purdue just scares me more for some irrational reason. I don't think that this year's Zags team is more motivated to beat any team in the country than Florida state.

Kong-Kool-Aid
03-24-2019, 08:02 AM
As a 4 the West is the only region where they could be placed and not potentially face a conference opponent as the other 3 #1 seeds are all from the ACC.

This is exactly the reason they are in our bracket.

Duke is better than FSU, they had their hot shooting game... we had our off game. Bring them on.

former1dog
03-24-2019, 08:04 AM
All of these hundred dollar bills that I just won are so wrinkled!!! Waaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!

Reborn
03-24-2019, 08:04 AM
Kenpom, my favorite analytic, has Florida St as the 2nd four. So please stop complaining. The teams playing in the 4/5 slot are Fl State, Auburn, Virginia Tech and maybe Oregon, who plays today. Take your pick. They're all good. And they should be. Like it was said, it's really tough for anyone to make the Sweet Sixteen so the teams that do are all good. If you're afraid, which you are, than you to do more research on Gonzaga's team and how good WE ARE. I'm so tired of all the negativity on this board which surrounds our Zags. Here are the other teams in the 4/5 slot: Virginia Tech, Auburn, and hopefully Oregon who plays today.

I'm also tired of the feelings as expressed here that the Committee screwed us, or the refs are out to screw us. Personally. I love the match-up with Florida St. We will be super motivated because the stomped on us last year. It will certainly be a heavyweight fight, if you can stand it, it will be a great game to watch. There are fans that think we should have the easiest path to the Final Four....like has been said, that does not exist.....it's just a fantasy.

Go Zags!!!

jpn17
03-24-2019, 08:07 AM
It is what it is, people were saying similar things about West Virginia in 2017. Just gotta go out there an beat them. The good news is Gonzaga should be very familiar with what FSU is going to do, and the Noles will have to contend with Clarke and Tillie, two guys that weren't around for last year's matchup. GU wins if they play their A game, so they just gotta go out and do that.

bballbeachbum
03-24-2019, 08:29 AM
True, but it does seem to me that FSU is far and away the best four seed. If we just leave it at that point, and not attempt to make it about "unfairness" and just more "frustration" then it becomes more sensible.

No one had FSU, the team that just beat Virginia, previously the tournament number one overall seed, to go to the ACC final as anything lower than a 3, some had them a 2. It was surprising.

And frustrating, bc I am not sure there's a team playing better right now. Over the last 3 weeks.

yep. recognizing the realities and pointing them out is not complaining imo. I don't get that complaint at all. I do get the ACC with 3 #1 seeds thing, moving FSU out west, but that could have been changed with a different #1 than 3 from one conference...ah, but history was made!! The ACC, blah blah blah

but YES, bring FSU on! have to beat the best to be the best!! Zags have a score to settle!!!! nothing to fear!!!!

Yes, all of that! but a different discussion

sheps001
03-24-2019, 08:57 AM
Agreed. As I was getting into this I was seeing things I had not seen before, like palatable matchups the crowd wants to see IE GU v FSU. Wisconsin v Oregon, etc. And why is this done. Isnt that interesting. Do agree bring on FSU but we should keep this in mind when thinking about how the committee operates.

rennis
03-24-2019, 08:59 AM
The first weekend weeds out the pretenders. There is no such thing as an easy path on weekend number two. Especially if the field is top heavy and goes chalk. Every single team that won yesterday would be a very difficult matchup, including Auburn and Purdue.

Respect is earned. Beating great teams builds legacy and culture. It draws recruits. It wins television contracts and causes people to stay up late to actually watch games. The upside outweighs everything else.

GU has a score to settle with FSU. Further, Michigan, although a great team and returning from the final four, is probably the most winnable two seed draw (which says more about the strength of the field than it does about Michigan).

Great points. I would rather play Fl St with that revenge factor than face Purdue right now. Edwards could steal our lunch money


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

zagssuperfan
03-24-2019, 09:05 AM
As a 4 the West is the only region where they could be placed and not potentially face a conference opponent as the other 3 #1 seeds are all from the ACC.

They shouldn't have been a four, that's part of his point I think. They should have been a 3, and I would have rather played Houston or Purdue over fsu.

zagssuperfan
03-24-2019, 09:14 AM
I don't understand this mentality that people on here have that we aren't allowed to be worried about playing fsu. Yes I get that in order to be the best you have to beat the best, but doesn't that imply that it's championship or bust? Let's be real, even with arguably our best team ever, the odds of winning it all are not great. Just like Few always says, it's largely a crap shoot. Part of that is seeding. Most of us want to go as far as possible, even if that means not winning a championship, and an E8 or F4 banner is better than a s16 banner. I don't need a championship to be happy with this season. It's ok for people to want a fair chance at going to the E8 or F4, that doesn't make you a better fan than us.

bartruff1
03-24-2019, 09:33 AM
Poor FSU got screwed...they have to go all the way across the Country and four time zones and play the #1 Seed from the West looking for revenge .....not fair....

Robzagnut
03-24-2019, 09:35 AM
I like GU's matchups. N. Carolina is the one who got screwed (I like it).

They get under seeded Washington today then the SEC tournament winner and hot Auburn team is waiting for them next. No thank you. I would much prefer playing Baylor and FSU over UW and Auburn.

Zagsker
03-24-2019, 09:47 AM
True, but it does seem to me that FSU is far and away the best four seed..

Well, we are the 4th 1 seed soooooo...makes sense that we play the best 4 seed

willandi
03-24-2019, 10:04 AM
I think that when a single conference gets as many seeds as the ACC did (and others have in the past) adjusting the seeds so that conference foes would not play each other too soon is absurd.

I would like to see a total revamp of the selection process. Throw out the quad BS and use NET, Kenpom, BPI or whichever metric or combination gives a true representation of individual teams ranking.

Put all the D1 teams on a list based on their rankings and remove all the auto-bid winners and all the teams under .500 in conference.
Remove ALL the names. The top remaining 36 teams, based on your metric, are the at large bids.
Put the auto winners back in and, without anyone seeing any names, seed the teams. Either 65-68 play to be 61-64 or do away with the 4 superfluous teams and go back to 64.

Seed the teams and let the chips fall where they may. The top four get geographic preference with #1 getting to choose. After that 2-4 are assigned to the closest of the 4 locations.

Then just put the teams in, uncover the names and see who plays where and when and who the opponent is.

sheps001
03-24-2019, 10:05 AM
Would have to go into the Pacific to make it four time zones as the West Coast is only three. I would suspect they will get the West Coast at least two days early to adjust to the time zone difference but you do bring up a good point. I might add Salt Lake City is at altitude and I saw some of the Baylor players really sucking air. Baylor is only 500 feet above sea level. I noticed that their shots were off a bit later in the game, too, which is consistent with this.

kdaleb
03-24-2019, 10:34 AM
I don't understand this mentality that people on here have that we aren't allowed to be worried about playing fsu. Yes I get that in order to be the best you have to beat the best, but doesn't that imply that it's championship or bust? Let's be real, even with arguably our best team ever, the odds of winning it all are not great. Just like Few always says, it's largely a crap shoot. Part of that is seeding. Most of us want to go as far as possible, even if that means not winning a championship, and an E8 or F4 banner is better than a s16 banner. I don't need a championship to be happy with this season. It's ok for people to want a fair chance at going to the E8 or F4, that doesn't make you a better fan than us.

Agree across the board. Matchups matter so much. And brevado that we can beat anyone... well, we can, but whoever we beat, we're still at the level we reached. And clearly, a team like FSU is a more difficult matchup for us than some other potential Sweet Sixteen matchups. I'm sure Coach Few and the team know this and will be appropriately working hard on a game plan.

That said, clearly, the committee didn't do this to screw Gonzaga. They don't care if a team is a good or a bad matchup for us or a different team. They have plenty to worry about just getting the teams seeded.

BayAreaZagFan
03-24-2019, 11:06 AM
We also have to put up with comments from every other team's fans that it's not fair that Gonzaga plays in such a weak conference and has an easier time making the tournament (and piling up wins and earning a higher seed) due to their schedule. Fair is in the eye of the beholder.

MDABE80
03-24-2019, 11:41 AM
And by extension, most also say our glitzy performance data is glitzy because we play 16 games against weak teams. Some of this is true while most is not. No matter, we're in 2 of the 6 games that really count. We've won. IN some respects what the committee did is marginally relevant now except to purists. Nothing against purists as the principles called out should be looked at someday. FSU is peaking at a very high level and they could win the whole thing even with losses from the earlier part of the season. WE, do not appear to be peaking since the last 2 of 3 games don't generate confidence. I doubt ( no I KNOW) we cannot win this next game without Rui getting tough and without Norvell getting to play defense and picking his shots better.

That's my point of focus. I really hope we win the whole thing. We need our mainstays to correct things. Bring in the hypnotists if you must but we need to win!

RenoZag
03-24-2019, 12:38 PM
I think the committee doesn't mind too much if there are storylines behind some of the match ups. . .e.g., Villanova vs. St. Mary's.

The last time they faced each other in the Big Dance ( 2010 ) #10 SMC upset # 2 Nova 75 -68 to advance to the Sweet 16.

Over the years, these rematches seem to pop up fairly often.

sittingon50
03-24-2019, 12:39 PM
kenpom has FSU @ #14.

Think that makes then the 2nd #4seed.

NotoriousZ
03-24-2019, 12:49 PM
kenpom has FSU @ #14.

Think that makes then the 2nd #4seed.

Well you can explain anything using facts. Facts schmacks. [\sarcasm]

Looking forward to a great game on Thursday and I think we will see the real Rui in action.

krozman
03-24-2019, 01:07 PM
<edited out>

bdmiller7
03-24-2019, 08:58 PM
kenpom has FSU @ #14.

Think that makes then the 2nd #4seed.

KenPom also only has Oregon and LSU ranked lower than FSU for teams left in the sweet 16, seems like it could have been worse.

CDC84
03-24-2019, 09:54 PM
One thing that is true: regardless of what anyone feels, if GU gets to the final 4 out of this west region, they will have earned it. There are no cream puffs. The west and the east have the best regions now, but I would give the edge to the west because every team is playing well.

GeorgiaZagFan
03-24-2019, 10:02 PM
wow...if the Zags want to be the best they can't be worried about FSU....with that said the Seminoles are on a very impressive streak going 16-2 with losses @ UNC and vs. Duke in ACC championship game...the Zags will have to play a very tight game by making their shots, taking care of the ball, and rebounding. Fla State is a very streaky shooting team, but if they get on a roll watch out...my biggest worry is the last 5 minutes of each half...they have 11 players averaging 10+ minutes per game and I feel they wear out many opponents and use fatigue to stretch leads like they did against Vermont ....a 2 point game with 8 minutes left was a 13 point game with about 2 minutes left....

Ekrub
03-25-2019, 06:27 AM
Just don’t let Tillie get hurt we will be fine

thespywhozaggedme
03-25-2019, 07:01 AM
As a 4 the West is the only region where they could be placed and not potentially face a conference opponent as the other 3 #1 seeds are all from the ACC.

Michigan played conference opponent Minnesota on Saturday and Puke is playing conference opponent VT this week.

DixieZag
03-25-2019, 07:38 AM
wow...if the Zags want to be the best they can't be worried about FSU....with that said the Seminoles are on a very impressive streak going 16-2 with losses @ UNC and vs. Duke in ACC championship game...the Zags will have to play a very tight game by making their shots, taking care of the ball, and rebounding. Fla State is a very streaky shooting team, but if they get on a roll watch out...my biggest worry is the last 5 minutes of each half...they have 11 players averaging 10+ minutes per game and I feel they wear out many opponents and use fatigue to stretch leads like they did against Vermont ....a 2 point game with 8 minutes left was a 13 point game with about 2 minutes left....

The longer time outs help considerably in the "wearing a team down" thing.

I think we could use Petrusev and Jones if needed to shore up minutes, just play good defense.

The bottom line is we have to hit 3s. If we do, we win. If we don't, we lose, IMO.

zagdontzig
03-25-2019, 07:52 AM
Everytime I login and see this topic title, I cringe. Blaming tournament seeding BEFORE WE EVEN PLAY THE GAME is on par with blaming the refs for a the outcome of a game.

willandi
03-25-2019, 08:16 AM
As a 4 the West is the only region where they could be placed and not potentially face a conference opponent as the other 3 #1 seeds are all from the ACC.

While I understand this comment, conference affiliation should not have any bearing on where a team is seeded, especially when the P 6 conferences get most of the available at large bids. The teams should just be seeded where they fall on the curve with no other limitations or considerations.

That being said, the Zags can beat any team in the country, if they play their game. By playing, and beating, those tough matchups, they will show that they deserve their own seeding.