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View Full Version : GU vs Baylor (NCAA R2) - Predictions/Thoughts/What you do hope to see



LongIslandZagFan
03-21-2019, 08:06 PM
Seemed like many had this penciled in as Zags vs Cuse... nope. Do the Zags continue their domination of opponents? Or does Baylor staff hot from 3 and upset the Zags? Who will be Sweet 16 bound?

What are hoping to see? Expecting to see? Thoughts? Predictions?

Have at it boys and girls!

willandi
03-21-2019, 08:12 PM
85-70 Zags

spike_jr
03-21-2019, 08:13 PM
Tillie with the same stat line that he had tonight

gonstu
03-21-2019, 08:14 PM
They can’t shoot that well from deep again can they?

thespywhozaggedme
03-21-2019, 08:15 PM
82-63 us

BayAreaZagFan
03-21-2019, 08:15 PM
I wanted Baylor, but they can't keep hitting threes like that, can they?

Zags - 88
U of Baylor - 71

caduceus
03-21-2019, 08:21 PM
Baylor is very good at offensive rebounds. #4 in ORB rate and #8 in ORB/gm. Also #4 in denying opponent offensive rebounds. We sometimes struggle against teams that rebound like crazy historically. I'm worried more about their second scoring chances than them going off from 3.

ZagsObserver
03-21-2019, 08:28 PM
Baylor is very good at offensive rebounds. #4 in ORB rate and #8 in ORB/gm. Also #4 in denying opponent offensive rebounds. We sometimes struggle against teams that rebound like crazy historically. I'm worried more about their second scoring chances than them going off from 3.

This. I still think the Zags grab the W.

Stache
03-21-2019, 08:29 PM
Us 84
Them 70

Baylor has 2 good outside shooters Perimeter defense.!

ZagzKrak
03-21-2019, 08:31 PM
Zags 89-69

raise the zag
03-21-2019, 08:38 PM
Baylor is very good at offensive rebounds. #4 in ORB rate and #8 in ORB/gm. Also #4 in denying opponent offensive rebounds. We sometimes struggle against teams that rebound like crazy historically. I'm worried more about their second scoring chances than them going off from 3.

Too true.

We have up 22 off rebs vs Duke, 16 off rebs vs UNC, 14 off rebs vs Tennessee.

UNC scored 30+ pts off 2nd chance pts.

Its been a problem.

Baylor is up there with UNC level rebounding.

Its going to be up to our BIG 3 down low.

I thought Rui did better on the boards tonight yet he is facing serious muscle in Baylor. Their guys are thick, strong, & mean.

sheps001
03-21-2019, 08:48 PM
Wait a minute. Lets get real. We are fully loaded and have a healthy Tillie hitting on all cylinders. Anything is possible now and we are definitely the Favorite and I say we win by between 15 and 20. Watch out too. Wofford can beat FSU.

sittingon50
03-21-2019, 08:54 PM
kenpom says Zags 81-69.

thespywhozaggedme
03-21-2019, 08:57 PM
Wait a minute. Lets get real. We are fully loaded and have a healthy Tillie hitting on all cylinders. Anything is possible now and we are definitely the Favorite and I say we win by between 15 and 20. Watch out too. Wofford can beat FSU.

Wofford plays Kentucky. You’re thinking of Murray State and Ja Morant

GonzaGAW
03-21-2019, 09:01 PM
Tillie with the same stat line that he had tonight

- if so I think a victory is a cinch.

Ezag
03-21-2019, 09:03 PM
At the Baylor presser after the game, Baylor coach said he green lighted them to shoot as many 3's as they wanted but I doubt they can shoot that hot again. Mason is a solid point guard for them and was really at factor at both ends on the floor. If he plays like that again and he is a senior also, he could give Josh some trouble. Their guys are built solid and are athletic

GonzaGAW
03-21-2019, 09:04 PM
They can’t shoot that well from deep again can they?

- highly doubtful. that was the most 3 pt baskets made all year. plus they shot 50% and on the year shoot 35%
- I like to play a team that just had a great, above average 3 point shooting game, seems they usually come back down to average. awfully hard to put up best 3 pt shooting efforts back to back.

WenatcheeZag
03-21-2019, 09:09 PM
Both Baylor and Syracuse looked winded in the second half. If we rebound and run ‘em, we beat ‘em. Their guard, Mason is hobbled as well.

Zags 87
Bears 78

GonzaGAW
03-21-2019, 09:09 PM
At the Baylor presser after the game, Baylor coach said he green lighted them to shoot as many 3's as they wanted but I doubt they can shoot that hot again. Mason is a solid point guard for them and was really at factor at both ends on the floor. If he plays like that again and he is a senior also, he could give Josh some trouble

- mason has bum toe or something, he was not the same player in the second half. his mobility and cuts were not there. his is a gamer however.
- I hope to see rui can shot after shot after shot from his favorite spot on the floor. free throw elbow, and then drive past his defender for layin after layin.

- sooooo happy to see Baylor next. 4-0 against them.

- common opponents, they opened their season with a loss against texas southern, the beat Arizona by 9.
- fdu who we whipped, beat prairie valley, as did Baylor, but only by 11.

- go zags.

jim77
03-21-2019, 09:12 PM
NobodyNobody wants the Zags...not even Baylor....Zags grab the lead and keep it...87...74.

Zagricultural
03-21-2019, 09:25 PM
I wanted Baylor not Cuse, and am happy. Short of them having another historic night from 3 and/or out-rebounding us like crazy I think we handle this nicely. I'm rooting hard for Murray State too!

WenatcheeZag
03-21-2019, 09:38 PM
I wanted Baylor not Cuse, and am happy. Short of them having another historic night from 3 and/or out-rebounding us like crazy I think we handle this nicely. I'm rooting hard for Murray State too!

That Ja Morant kid is a stud. I think after watching both games today, they could take FSU if he plays like that again. Was fun to watch.

CdAZagFan
03-21-2019, 09:42 PM
That 'Cuse zone had me a little worried... But I think Baylor is a better offensive team and better athletes. We have to control the boards to win this one:

GU 84
Baylor 70

HenneZag
03-21-2019, 09:52 PM
I was on the fence with who I'd rather play after watching the whole game, both teams had certain strengths. We've always seemed to struggle against a zone, let alone a Syracuse zone. If shots are not falling then we would get wiped. Baylor had a phenomenal shooting performance and I dont expect that against us. With that said, they are the more balanced team and have a stud floor general. Zags have all the pieces to dismantle this Baylor team but we need the A game for 40 minutes.

75Zag
03-21-2019, 10:03 PM
Bulldogs by 14 going away.

How do I know that? In the immortal words of George Michael: Because I've gotta have faith, faith, faith.

Go Bulldogs!

ZagsGoZags
03-21-2019, 10:10 PM
I expect the dogs to beat the bears

81-77

Zags11
03-21-2019, 11:57 PM
Zags 84

Baylor 74

sheps001
03-22-2019, 12:02 AM
Remember the game is being at altitude. Not quite a mile high. AND non altitude teams get winded. They suck air and their shots are a little off especially the longer ones like free throws and threes and this is noticeable latter in the game. Probably will happen to Baylor again but not as bad this time, but it will happen to our benefit.

Zaga
03-22-2019, 04:22 AM
83-70 Zags

Zagceo
03-22-2019, 04:37 AM
Remember Pangos NCAA game against Arizona in San Diego...turf toe

Mason was hurting in second half.

Rui played better defense but still needs to turn it up...end the game with at least 2 fouls (defensive) and maybe another aggressively going after offensive rebound. Get more physical each game.

MickMick
03-22-2019, 04:54 AM
Buddy Boeheim was exploited on the defensive end. Syracuse needs the front two to be long (which Boeheim is) and quick to close out (which Boeheim isn’t).

I don’t think Baylor will play GU the same way. GU will play more man and will play a faster tempo as well. Tillie will bring one of thier defensive rebounders out or they will pay the price. Where Syracuse used Tyus Battle to isolate and drive, GU will be using Rui. Again, one less big man focused on rebound positioning and more focused on defending Rui.

Baylor will still shoot threes. It is thier MO. This means long rebounds. Norvell will need to come up with some of those.

Really, GU and Syracuse play such different styles that it is difficult to use Syracuse as a reference.

RenoZag
03-22-2019, 04:55 AM
Baylor Bears 75
Gonzaga Bulldogs 81

Predict a nailbiter to get to the second weekend.

Sarenyon
03-22-2019, 05:33 AM
GU 82
Baylor 67
A nice little story about Rem.

Zagger
03-22-2019, 06:06 AM
Zags knock the stuffing outta Baylor :)

Zags 90
Baylor will be needing Bayer 65

Yeah, a bit lopsided score but I feel the Zags are just warming up their full roster. I also think Few/coaches along with Zag depth & Dance experience will take them to at least the Final Four. I feel the best performances for this team this season have yet to be seen and Baylor will be the recipient of one of them.

What I wanna see ..... the Zags do well enough to produce a Beach 3!
5 guys in double figures again too please :)

bartruff1
03-22-2019, 06:17 AM
zags 85-70

LongIslandZagFan
03-22-2019, 06:29 AM
Baylor ranks 79th in defensive efficiency and 21st on offense.

For perspective:

SMC ranks 55/22
Tenn ranks 32/3

Basically, Zags have played against tougher D.

No way does Baylor continue to shoot lights out. Seasonally they shoot 3s at 34%.... last night was almost 50%.

Baylor is also 1-4 vs their last five ranked opponents.

Zags open a lead and hold it most of the game.

Zags 88
Baylor 68

Reborn
03-22-2019, 06:45 AM
Gonzaga 83
Baylor 63

We must remember that Syracuse played a zone, and the Zags play man to man; so the game against Syracuse is not a good indicator of how good Baylor's shooters will shoot against a stingy GU defense that's ranked in the top 10 defensively. The 3's that Baylor made yesterday were wide open shots against a zone. They will not have those kinds of shots tomorrow against Zags. Also remember that Syracuse did not have Howard. Say what you want about him that's negative, he's a dang good basketball player and athlete. Syracuse DID miss him a lot. The game yesterday kind of reminded me of how the Zags played against Florida St last year right after Tillie got hurt and couldn't play.

I"m not saying Baylor can't shoot because they can, especially when they're wide open. Take the 3 point shot away from them the way we did against Farleigh-Dikerson and we won't have any problems.

Go Zags!!!

White lightning
03-22-2019, 06:45 AM
82-68 Zags

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

former1dog
03-22-2019, 06:48 AM
In the immortal words of Charles Barkley, "Baylor's in trouble."

Zags 95
Bears 70

raise the zag
03-22-2019, 06:54 AM
Baylor ranks 79th in defensive efficiency and 21st on offense.

For perspective:

SMC ranks 55/22
Tenn ranks 32/3

Basically, Zags have played against tougher D.

No way does Baylor continue to shoot lights out. Seasonally they shoot 3s at 34%.... last night was almost 50%.

Baylor is also 1-4 vs their last five ranked opponents.

Zags open a lead and hold it most of the game.

Zags 88
Baylor 68

Very deceiving with them.

Take a peek HERE (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/239), in all their wins, especially later in the season, they hit over 50+% from 3pt, and hit a TON of them.

In their losses, they are cold.

Baylor attempts a ton of 3's no matter the defense or opponent. Surprising to say they have lived and died by the 3 since Tristan Young was injured for the season.

Some of their big wins they hit at least 12+ 3's and at a clip we rarely achieve. They have had players hit 8 or more 3's a few times.

And they rebound those misses for more 3pt kick out attempts. They run a 4 guard offense, yet these "guards" are 6'5", 240lbs and so on....

Perimeter defense will be the key to winning and losing. Corey Kispert must have another plugged in defensive performance as he did vs Fairleigh, same goes for Norvell.

They attempts 3's at a high clip, and offensively rebound better that 99% of teams in the NCAA. Occasionally, our two biggest weaknesses. When Baylor is COLD, they go down, when they are HOT, they have won nearly every game or went to OT.

Hoopaholic
03-22-2019, 07:02 AM
Very deceiving with them.

Take a peek HERE (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/schedule/_/id/239), in all their wins, especially later in the season, they hit over 50+% from 3pt, and hit a TON of them.

In their losses, they are cold.

Baylor attempts a ton of 3's no matter the defense or opponent. Surprising to say they have lived and died by the 3 since Tristan Young was injured for the season.

Some of their big wins they hit at least 12+ 3's and at a clip we rarely achieve. They have had players hit 8 or more 3's a few times.

And they rebound those misses for more 3pt kick out attempts. They run a 4 guard offense, yet these "guards" are 6'5", 240lbs and so on....

Perimeter defense will be the key to winning and losing. Corey Kispert must have another plugged in defensive performance as he did vs Fairleigh, same goes for Norvell.

They attempts 3's at a high clip, and offensively rebound better that 99% of teams in the NCAA. Occasionally, our two biggest weaknesses. When Baylor is COLD, they go down, when they are HOT, they have won nearly every game or went to OT.

Wins later in season? They were 4-7 losing record

We actually made more three shots than they did for season and shot 44 less three balls

Second game in two days with a hard fought emotional one and point guard with bumb foot and now knee

I like our chances..chase them off three line and into the teeth of Clarke, Rui and tille

caldwellzag
03-22-2019, 07:08 AM
Survive and advance!

irishzag_09
03-22-2019, 07:11 AM
Most of you have mentioned Makai Mason's right foot injury...and like most of you, noticed he had a little bit of gimp towards the late minutes of the game. My observation, Baylor was lucky to play a slow, methodical team in Syracuse. They will not be so lucky in playing the Zags. Having to pivot and sprint in transition, is not what Baylor wants to do or a person with some sharp foot pain. I'm not saying that Mason won't gut out some pain and stay in the game, but when Gonzaga pushes the ball up the floor, he will have some problems keeping up all night long. Also to note, Syracuse rarely penetrated the 1-3-1 defense which was their downfall in settling for jumpshots ALL EVENING LONG. Gonzaga will penetrate this zone with Perkins and Crandall especially and find the baseline cutter for dunks or layups. The Zags will get some Baylor Bigs in foul trouble, which Syracuse did a poor job of last night.

raise the zag
03-22-2019, 07:12 AM
Wins later in season? They were 4-7 losing record

We actually made more three shots than they did for season and shot 44 less three balls

Second game in two days with a hard fought emotional one and point guard with bumb foot and now knee

I like our chances..chase them off three line and into the teeth of Clarke, Rui and tille

Check the same attempts post January 8th. Rises exponentially as they shifted to full-time 4 guard offense.

Say, what happened to Makai's knee? I see mention of his foot/toe, but nothing on knee, yet saw him rubbing it during timeouts...

23dpg
03-22-2019, 07:20 AM
Zags 87
Baylor 73

Hoopaholic
03-22-2019, 07:26 AM
Check the same attempts post January 8th. Rises exponentially as they shifted to full-time 4 guard offense.

Say, what happened to Makai's knee? I see mention of his foot/toe, but nothing on knee, yet saw him rubbing it during timeouts...
Knee to knee on drive to basket

Hoopaholic
03-22-2019, 07:27 AM
Most of you have mentioned Makai Mason's right foot injury...and like most of you, noticed he had a little bit of gimp towards the late minutes of the game. My observation, Baylor was lucky to play a slow, methodical team in Syracuse. They will not be so lucky in playing the Zags. Having to pivot and sprint in transition, is not what Baylor wants to do or a person with some sharp foot pain. I'm not saying that Mason won't gut out some pain and stay in the game, but when Gonzaga pushes the ball up the floor, he will have some problems keeping up all night long. Also to note, Syracuse rarely penetrated the 1-3-1 defense which was their downfall in settling for jumpshots ALL EVENING LONG. Gonzaga will penetrate this zone with Perkins and Crandall especially and find the baseline cutter for dunks or layups. The Zags will get some Baylor Bigs in foul trouble, which Syracuse did a poor job of last night.

Irish spot on imo

MontanaCoyote
03-22-2019, 07:27 AM
Toughness inside, no “leaping D” on 3 Balls, focus, intensity.

amaronizag
03-22-2019, 07:57 AM
Zags win 84-65

raise the zag
03-22-2019, 08:01 AM
Most of you have mentioned Makai Mason's right foot injury...and like most of you, noticed he had a little bit of gimp towards the late minutes of the game. My observation, Baylor was lucky to play a slow, methodical team in Syracuse. They will not be so lucky in playing the Zags. Having to pivot and sprint in transition, is not what Baylor wants to do or a person with some sharp foot pain. I'm not saying that Mason won't gut out some pain and stay in the game, but when Gonzaga pushes the ball up the floor, he will have some problems keeping up all night long. Also to note, Syracuse rarely penetrated the 1-3-1 defense which was their downfall in settling for jumpshots ALL EVENING LONG. Gonzaga will penetrate this zone with Perkins and Crandall especially and find the baseline cutter for dunks or layups. The Zags will get some Baylor Bigs in foul trouble, which Syracuse did a poor job of last night.

agree to an extent, yet penetrating a 1-3-1 is almost impossible past 3pt line. And not Perkins or Crandall's forte to penetrate without help, they are quick off ball screens, yet that is exactly what Baylor does best -- collapse on the ball screen penetration. It can be stifling around the 3pt line for guards. Our best chance is rolling out the screening big for an easy mid-range jumper or drive to the hoop. Also, rolling weakside bigs to the hoop as well.

Also, Baylor guards are all 215lbs+, they are tough to drive by as they front really well with their muscle/strength.

Our bigs should technically have a field day playing off one another, weakside cuts along baseline, driving to hoop, or finding soft spots in zone.

irishzag_09
03-22-2019, 08:04 AM
Irish spot on imo

Thank you sir. I will say is when playing against the 1-3-1 zone is that the baseline is WIDE OPEN along with the Spot up Corner 3...teams that shoot this shot at a high percentage will pummel the 1-3-1...The last thing on penetrating the 1-3-1 zone does not happen at the top of the 3-point arc, but from the wing and baseline positions...meaning in order to tear apart this zone, instead of moving the ball side to side like you want to against a 2-3 zone, you actually want to move the ball below the free throw line and then penetrate....with non-ballhandlers drifting actually towards where the zone use to be (free throw line) as it collapses on the penetration. I really feel the Zags are the team that will blow up this zone with everyone being able to handle the ball. This zone works well when the 3, 4, and 5 guys can't dribble penetrate or stand around and can't move without the ball...neither of these are problems for us.

In case a few of you want to really nerd out...here are some cookie cutter plays that will make the 1-3-1 zone crumble.

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/131zoneoffense.html

irishzag_09
03-22-2019, 08:19 AM
agree to an extent, yet penetrating a 1-3-1 is almost impossible past 3pt line. And not Perkins or Crandall's forte to penetrate without help, they are quick off ball screens, yet that is exactly what Baylor does best -- collapse on the ball screen penetration. It can be stifling around the 3pt line for guards. Our best chance is rolling out the screening big for an easy mid-range jumper or drive to the hoop. Also, rolling weakside bigs to the hoop as well.

Also, Baylor guards are all 215lbs+, they are tough to drive by as they front really well with their muscle/strength.

Our bigs should technically have a field day playing off one another, weakside cuts along baseline, driving to hoop, or finding soft spots in zone.

This is incorrect, see my post regarding penetartion below the free throw line...and as far as screens go against the 1-3-1 zone...you don't ball screen...you screen a defender where a player without the ball will cut to. In other words...as penetration happens and the defense attempts to collapse on the penetration, screen the weak side defender attempting to collapse and play help team defense...the help defender is now blocked from rotating and someone on the back side is going to be wide open.

Hoopaholic
03-22-2019, 08:25 AM
agree to an extent, yet penetrating a 1-3-1 is almost impossible past 3pt line. And not Perkins or Crandall's forte to penetrate without help, they are quick off ball screens, yet that is exactly what Baylor does best -- collapse on the ball screen penetration. It can be stifling around the 3pt line for guards. Our best chance is rolling out the screening big for an easy mid-range jumper or drive to the hoop. Also, rolling weakside bigs to the hoop as well.

Also, Baylor guards are all 215lbs+, they are tough to drive by as they front really well with their muscle/strength.

Our bigs should technically have a field day playing off one another, weakside cuts along baseline, driving to hoop, or finding soft spots in zone.

Wrong...on penetrating zones..every zone has penetrating lanes that forces two defenders to cover one player creating open pockets of opportunities. Knowing and understanding the angles lanes and proper slides or move without ball will create some very good open looks

1-3-1 in particular is difficult to handle and cover post up and short corners providing our bigs ample opportunities

Suspect we see very little 1-3-1 if we attack it correctly

raise the zag
03-22-2019, 08:26 AM
This is incorrect, see my post regarding penetartion below the free throw line...and as far as screens go against the 1-3-1 zone...you don't ball screen...you screen a defender where a player without the ball will cut to. In other words...as penetration happens and the defense attempts to collapse on the penetration, screen the weak side defender attempting to collapse and play help team defense...the help defender is now blocked from rotating and someone on the back side is going to be wide open.

yes and no. We are actually saying nearly the same thing in a different way, if you break it down.

in theory, baseline is open vs any zone, IF/when help defender collapses, yet ask Syracuse how that worked out for them last night? Did you watch the game? I stayed up until midnight my time watching every minute.

Baylor runs a so-called 1-3-1, yet immediately "morphs" into a more traditional 2-3 when first help defender collapses if/when guards penetrate. this nearly eliminated their baseline "rover" or cutter every single time, forcing them to kick it back out to try and find the open jumper. Occasionally Syracuse simply out worked the zone by forcing it down the lane and for a drive to the hoop, and even then Baylor switched to a legitimate M2M defense down the stretch. This worked wonders as Syracuse couldn't adjust quick enough.

Hoopaholic
03-22-2019, 08:31 AM
Thank you sir. I will say is when playing against the 1-3-1 zone is that the baseline is WIDE OPEN along with the Spot up Corner 3...teams that shoot this shot at a high percentage will pummel the 1-3-1...The last thing on penetrating the 1-3-1 zone does not happen at the top of the 3-point arc, but from the wing and baseline positions...meaning in order to tear apart this zone, instead of moving the ball side to side like you want to against a 2-3 zone, you actually want to move the ball below the free throw line and then penetrate....with non-ballhandlers drifting actually towards where the zone use to be (free throw line) as it collapses on the penetration. I really feel the Zags are the team that will blow up this zone with everyone being able to handle the ball. This zone works well when the 3, 4, and 5 guys can't dribble penetrate or stand around and can't move without the ball...neither of these are problems for us.

In case a few of you want to really nerd out...here are some cookie cutter plays that will make the 1-3-1 zone crumble.

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/131zoneoffense.html

Starting low block ballside post up with opposite patient high post and a sliding weakside shooter will create very difficult defensive decisions. As you attack the angle toward free throw elbow creates pivot choice for the lone baseline defender if he stays ballside low post then the middle defender at free throw must decide to stay with weaksideelbow offensive player who can slide to low block or pop out to three ball leaving weaksidewing to backdoor cut or continue thru for ballside overload open look ( norvell excels at this). Meanwhile point guard fills in behind penetrator and is open for good look

1-3-1 staying away from trouble corner doubles is one of the funniest zones to attack especially with our composite makeup

raise the zag
03-22-2019, 08:32 AM
This is incorrect, see my post regarding penetartion below the free throw line...and as far as screens go against the 1-3-1 zone...you don't ball screen...you screen a defender where a player without the ball will cut to. In other words...as penetration happens and the defense attempts to collapse on the penetration, screen the weak side defender attempting to collapse and play help team defense...the help defender is now blocked from rotating and someone on the back side is going to be wide open.


Wrong...on penetrating zones..every zone has penetrating lanes that forces two defenders to cover one player creating open pockets of opportunities. Knowing and understanding the angles lanes and proper slides or move without ball will create some very good open looks

1-3-1 in particular is difficult to handle and cover post up and short corners providing our bigs ample opportunities

Suspect we see very little 1-3-1 if we attack it correctly

I agree with both of you to an extent, yet I can also tell you have not watched Baylor play. You are referencing coaching concepts from your own experience or a manual on how to adjust or find lanes, soft spots vs "1-3-1".

Baylor plays a version of it, yet also 2-3 "attacking zone", followed by M2M if/when penetration is working.

I'm not drawing a line in the sand or saying right or wrong, yet watching Baylor morph from zone to zone in the middle of a possession, and watching how unsuccessful teams are at finding baseline opportunities vs them is what is happening.

Side angles have worked for entry passes to post up guys yet Baylor knows and adjusts, in a perfect world proper angles/slides/moving without ball is textbook.

I was saying is primary ballhandlers driving past on ball defenders isnt' really Gonzaga's forte and that is fine. We can use corners more and utilizing our bigs ability to dribble drive. This isn't necessary black and white, as each of you have assumed. IF we see this, then do this. Again, watching that game last night was telling.

Hoopaholic
03-22-2019, 08:33 AM
yes and no. We are actually saying nearly the same thing in a different way, if you break it down.

in theory, baseline is open vs any zone, IF/when help defender collapses, yet ask Syracuse how that worked out for them last night? Did you watch the game? I stayed up until midnight my time watching every minute.

Baylor runs a so-called 1-3-1, yet immediately "morphs" into a more traditional 2-3 when first help defender collapses if/when guards penetrate. this nearly eliminated their baseline "rover" or cutter every single time, forcing them to kick it back out to try and find the open jumper. Occasionally Syracuse simply out worked the zone by forcing it down the lane and for a drive to the hoop, and even then Baylor switched to a legitimate M2M defense down the stretch. This worked wonders as Syracuse couldn't adjust quick enough.

2-3 zone and 1-2-2 are both designed to manage low post and baseline action

Syracuse runs modified 2-2-1 zone with flex responsibility

raise the zag
03-22-2019, 08:35 AM
2-3 zone and 1-2-2 are both designed to manage low post and baseline action

Syracuse runs modified 2-2-1 zone with flex responsibility

+1. agreed.

Hoopaholic
03-22-2019, 08:35 AM
I agree with both of you to an extent, yet I can also tell you have not watched Baylor play. You are referencing coaching concepts from your own experience or a manual on how to adjust or find lanes, soft spots vs 1-3-1.

Baylor plays a version of it, yet also 2-3 "attacking zone", followed by M2M if/when penetration is working.

I'm not drawing a line in the sand or saying right or wrong, yet watching Baylor morph from zone to zone in the middle of a possession, and watching how unsuccessful teams are at finding baseline opportunities vs them is what is happening.

Side angles have worked for entry passes to post up guys yet Baylor knows and adjusts, in a perfect world proper angles/slides/moving without ball is textbook.

I was saying is primary ballhandlers driving past on ball defenders isnt' really Gonzaga's forte and that is fine. We can use corners more and utilizing our bigs ability to dribble drive. This isn't necessary black and white, as each of you have assumed. IF we see this, then do this. Again, watching that game last night was telling.

Only 3 games this year but dress philosophy and responsibilities have been consistent over the years and this year is same

Manual? What is that. And where would one purchase that on Baylor 1-3-1 zone philosophies?

EEzag
03-22-2019, 08:40 AM
Both zones, like most zones, require a certain type of player (usually long arms for ex.). Baylor's zone if you have a chance to watch it, is better than average. Like all zones, passing into the heart and cutting without the ball are the key. Rui's and Tillie's passing will be on display.

GU69
03-22-2019, 08:48 AM
Zags 85-70

Tillie really makes a difference. It's great to have him back, I just wish he'd been able to play all season so he'd be more in game shape. However, we're deep enough that he can get rests.

Snowkane
03-22-2019, 10:05 AM
ZAGS 85
BEARS - 69

Hoopaholic
03-22-2019, 10:12 AM
Zags 76
Baylor 60

bballbeachbum
03-22-2019, 10:36 AM
fun thread to peruse, thanks everyone

agree with the observations it's a very different matchup for Baylor with the Zags instead of Syracuse, hard to measure Baylor from that game

but discussed the baseline attack against 1 3 1 and Syracuse zone in game thread. each open along the baseline depending on how you attack it. on Baylor, the weakside baseline to enter the paint into gaps to receive, and the hi low, both ways to attack that zone and isolate our post player 1v1 inside

I'd expect Rui or BC to get tons of attention at the FT line, so the weakside and baseline could be open if they can find those cutters when the pressure comes. hope Zags can work that zone side to side and inside out to open up the gaps; Syracuse found them all over the place

when Baylor goes M2M, hope to see Zags recognize and go to work inside; Syracuse adjusted poorly imo when Baylor switched Ds, kept jacking but under pressure and off the bounce, different shot than vs. the zone

if Zags are giving up catch and shoot 3s and/or o baords to Baylor, will be a battle. if not, Zags control things.

the D glass is the Key imo to help fuel the O efficiency, that battle against Baylor's strength on the o glass

stevet75
03-22-2019, 10:51 AM
zags 79 baylor 71

B Wayne
03-22-2019, 11:39 AM
I see another 2013 outcome where the 1 seed Zags once again run into a very good but under appreciated 9 seed. The Zags rated number 1 in the country in 2013 and our fans on this board thought the Zags had better talent than the Shockers even after the game!!! But time has shown Wichita State had the better team with 3 future NBA players. Once again we face a 9 seed with future NBA talent. (our fans just don't know it now just as they didn't before Wichita State)

Baylor 79 Zags 78

raise the zag
03-22-2019, 12:03 PM
I see another 2013 outcome where the 1 seed Zags once again run into a very good but under appreciated 9 seed. The Zags rated number 1 in the country in 2013 and our fans on this board thought the Zags had better talent than the Shockers even after the game!!! But time has shown Wichita State had the better team with 3 future NBA players. Once again we face a 9 seed with future NBA talent. (our fans just don't know it now just as they didn't before Wichita State)

Baylor 79 Zags 78

If you think this Baylor team features more NBA or overall talent, you are mistaken.

Having more talent doesn't equal a win, yet we are better than Baylor in every conceivable way, save rebounding. That includes current and future talent...and it's not all that close.

That is just being objective.

Their 1 3 1 gives everyone problems yet we should win going away tomorrow tonight. We just gave to match their toughness, as no one is denying they are a tough and strong team.

Mr Vulture
03-22-2019, 12:08 PM
I think a lot on here look at what can go wrong instead of looking at the teams. The Zags should win without a doubt but there's always that chance that Baylor could play out of their mind. I think talent wins this game...

Zags - 90
Baylor - 71

GonzagasaurusFlex
03-22-2019, 12:44 PM
I see another 2013 outcome where the 1 seed Zags once again run into a very good but under appreciated 9 seed. The Zags rated number 1 in the country in 2013 and our fans on this board thought the Zags had better talent than the Shockers even after the game!!! But time has shown Wichita State had the better team with 3 future NBA players. Once again we face a 9 seed with future NBA talent. (our fans just don't know it now just as they didn't before Wichita State)

Baylor 79 Zags 78

boo hiss

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-22-2019, 12:45 PM
I can’t imagine any team staying in a 1-3-1 zone for long against our front court. Tillie and Perkins will lob baseline dunks to BC and Rui until the rim curls up in the fetal position and begs for mercy.

Bocco
03-22-2019, 01:08 PM
Zags 82
Bears 65

OCzag
03-22-2019, 01:55 PM
Posted in the game thread, so mods please delete if you see fit. Pre-game pressers. Zach and Corey start at about 38 min mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBMUX-Bw-qs

EEzag
03-22-2019, 02:03 PM
I canít imagine any team staying in a 1-3-1 zone for long against our front court. Tillie and Perkins will lob baseline dunks to BC and Rui until the rim curls up in the fetal position and begs for mercy.

The best way to beat this zone is quick decisive passes from the high post or the free-throw line extended wing. That pass is most effective from the high post....sooooo Tillie maybe? You want to keep that middle defender up high so the baseline guy has to choose. Could be a lot of oppo screens and cuts for Rui. There should be lots of sideline 3's for Snacks as well. It will be interesting to see how Few comes at this zone. Might be a good game for Kispert as well.


This is a game where Shem would have put on a passing clinic. Miss ya big Fella.

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-22-2019, 02:46 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YP9o-RGDPTg

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-22-2019, 02:48 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qFPjnYCi9co

All Weather Fan
03-22-2019, 03:27 PM
Go Zags. Beat da Bears !
GU - 81 BU - 72

zagamatic
03-22-2019, 04:16 PM
I see another 2013 outcome where the 1 seed Zags once again run into a very good but under appreciated 9 seed. The Zags rated number 1 in the country in 2013 and our fans on this board thought the Zags had better talent than the Shockers even after the game!!! But time has shown Wichita State had the better team with 3 future NBA players. Once again we face a 9 seed with future NBA talent. (our fans just don't know it now just as they didn't before Wichita State)

Baylor 79 Zags 78

You forget that Gary Bell broke his hand in that game which severely handicapped our defense during the game and we were not able to adjust. Not to mention missing a dead eye shooter on offense. Had we beaten Wichita State, I doubt we would have won the next round without him.

zag67
03-22-2019, 05:24 PM
Gu 90-70

bigblahla
03-22-2019, 06:38 PM
Zags 85 - 71

Go !! Zags!!!

raise the zag
03-22-2019, 06:43 PM
Outrebounded by 15, win by 5.

gonzagafan62
03-22-2019, 06:52 PM
You forget that Gary Bell broke his hand in that game which severely handicapped our defense during the game and we were not able to adjust. Not to mention missing a dead eye shooter on offense. Had we beaten Wichita State, I doubt we would have won the next round without him.

Thought it was his foot?

And we woulda beat La Salle - or then again maybe not. Oh well.

Radbooks
03-22-2019, 07:26 PM
Zags 83
Baylor - 71

MJ777
03-22-2019, 08:07 PM
Mythical Gonzaga 89
Fighting Bakamus’s 82

Go Zags!

spike_jr
03-22-2019, 08:23 PM
83-70 GU

Limit the turnovers, hit 3s within the flow of the offense, limit their 3 point opportunities, and rebound, Rebound, REBOUND

Zag_Dad
03-22-2019, 09:20 PM
Zags - 81
Bears - 67

More Tillie!

Bogozags
03-23-2019, 04:39 AM
GU 76
BU 70

Goshzagit
03-23-2019, 05:18 AM
this one will be a barn-burner.

Baylor simply too good of an offensive rebounding team, and confident of a shooting team not to hang around. Even when they brick shots, they get a 2nd chance more often than not as their guards all have a nose for the ball.

I could see us trailing for much of the game, say 6-8-10 pts throughout, only to pull away in the final 5 or 6 minutes as the law of averages eventually work in our favor.

Zags 74
Bears 72

Baylor's primary strength is our primary weakness -- containing/corralling offensive rebounds. Something has to give.

I think our game flow could look a lot like Liberty vs Miss St from last night. While we don't compare to either of those teams, its how I see it going. We go up, then Baylor hits a flurry of shots, they go up, even by double digits, while we keep sawing wood, pounding it inside (up to our guards), and chip away while Baylor starts to miss shots. We win going away at the end by 2 to 5 points.

Therunner
03-23-2019, 06:11 AM
All eyes on Rui boxing out. Such a dominant player in so many ways, yet his one weakness [boxing out] is easily and instantly fixable.

Have a feeling he has a double double tonight, and leads us to the win.

Zags by 10.

Reborn
03-23-2019, 06:18 AM
I'm glad I have time to change my prediction. I think it's going to be a little tougher game than I originally thought. They play in a tough conference. 77-66 Zags!

What a great game. One certainly worthy of a team making it to the Sweet 16.

Go Zags!!!

TexasZagFan
03-23-2019, 06:48 AM
Zags 88, Bears 77

rennis
03-23-2019, 06:55 AM
I want to see domination. Rebound the hell out of the ball on the defensive end, everyone crashing the boards. That's the key.

Zags 84
Bears 67

kitzbuel
03-23-2019, 07:11 AM
Baylor hasn’t really found an answer for losing Tristan Clark. 8 of their 13 losses have occurred after he went down, including their 4 game losing streak to end the regular season. They will be really hard put to answer GU’s height and length if Rui, Clarke, and Tillie are all playing well.

GU needs to keep its intensity and focus and this should be 15 pt win.

Zags 88

Bears 73

JPW314159
03-23-2019, 07:17 AM
ZAGS 85
bears 65

Goshzagit
03-23-2019, 09:33 AM
They will be really hard put to answer GUís height and length if Rui, Clarke, and Tillie are all playing well.

Have an inkling Baylor tinkers with their so-called 1 3 1 zone.

I feel Baylor will play like St Mary's on defense as they don't have the overall height to protect the paint unless double teaming, which doesn't work well with us since we have multiple bigs.

My guess is they continue to play a version of 1 3 1 with a pack-it-in aspect to the bottom half, so I expect a more traditional 2-3 zone from them tonight. I think they guard the lanes much like the Gaels did. One of the recent articles stated they would watching film "from the 47 pt game".

Baylor might have no choice but to gamble to win.

They are going to let the guards shoot, exactly like SMC did. And simply hope Perkins/Norvell/Kispert aren't hitting from outside, again, just as SMC did. GU, as we know, went 2-17 from 3pt at the wrong time. The more we missed, the more they packed it in.

Baylor light years ahead of SMC athletically and muscle, yet actually shorter overall.

I think we have an answer for this: 1. plan our guards won't miss everything 2. Use Tillie more. Duh. 3. We practiced for this scenario all week, so I have faith they will come up with something.

We should win this game as long as we rebound. Its as simple as that. If we give Baylor 20+ 2nd chance points, then anything is possible. Don't let Makai get too hot, or too confident.

zagssuperfan
03-23-2019, 09:46 AM
Have an inkling Baylor tinkers with their so-called 1 3 1 zone.

I feel Baylor will play like St Mary's on defense as they don't have the overall height to protect the paint unless double teaming, which doesn't work well with us since we have multiple bigs.

My guess is they continue to play a version of 1 3 1 with a pack-it-in aspect to the bottom half, so I expect a more traditional 2-3 zone from them tonight. I think they guard the lanes much like the Gaels did. One of the recent articles stated they would watching film "from the 47 pt game".

Baylor might have no choice but to gamble to win.

They are going to let the guards shoot, exactly like SMC did. And simply hope Perkins/Norvell/Kispert aren't hitting from outside, again, just as SMC did. GU, as we know, went 2-17 from 3pt at the wrong time. The more we missed, the more they packed it in.

Baylor light years ahead of SMC athletically and muscle, yet actually shorter overall.

I think we have an answer for this: 1. plan our guards won't miss everything 2. Use Tillie more. Duh. 3. We practiced for this scenario all week, so I have faith they will come up with something.

We should win this game as long as we rebound. Its as simple as that. If we give Baylor 20+ 2nd chance points, then anything is possible. Don't let Makai get too hot, or too confident.

The scary part to me, which I haven't really seen anyone talk about, is that those 3 still shot poorly overall in our last game against FDU. The 3 guards shot 7-20 overall for 35%. That has to improve. It's even worse if you look at just kispert and norvell; 5-17 overall for 29%. I really think that Norvell is our most pivotal(is that the right word) player in determining how far we go. If he is throwing up bad shots that don't fall, we won't make it deep. However, if he finds his stroke and is hot from 3 we have a great chance of beating everyone.

Zagceo
03-23-2019, 09:47 AM
Make Mason work hard on defense and run run run run until team says no mas.

Martin Centre Mad Man
03-23-2019, 10:59 AM
Zags 94-87.

DixieZag
03-23-2019, 11:43 AM
Zags 82
Baylor: 72

They just have no answer for our guys running up and down the floor. Played as a half court game they might hang, but we just run and run some more.

Knotsolucky
03-23-2019, 02:23 PM
Zags 87-79

upan8th
03-23-2019, 02:51 PM
Can't begin to express how disappointing a GU loss would be for all of us on the board. Worse than Nevada worse then Wyoming, the very worst. Don't see us having another Final Four opportunity in the next few years. And yet, sense one of those survive and advance scenarios today. Just hope it's GU moving forward. Zags 74-73.