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thespywhozaggedme
03-11-2019, 07:33 PM
I will preface my post by saying that it is from a Kentucky fan on the Kentucky Board so if this gets your knickers in a knot you can bow out of this thread now That way you do not have to subject yourself to “immature, lowbrow” threads. If not, a Kentucky “fan” posted this and I would like to refute it with facts and only facts. Thank you:



Lost in the first or second rounds every year but 1 from 2008 through 2014. In 2 of the 4 years you mention, you went down in the third round. The only 2 years the Zags kinda earned their stripes were 15 and 17.

Don’t get me wrong. Nice run for a mid major. But that is all the Zags are. The media and the NCAA have been giving them soft serve for years and they crap the bed. If they had been in a power conference, the seeds would have been more balanced due to the worse performance. This would have put their NCAA performance in a much more realistic light.


https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/pepperdine-kicking-zags.290428/page-2

TexasZagFan
03-11-2019, 07:39 PM
I will preface my post by saying that it is from a Kentucky fan on the Kentucky Board so if this gets your knickers in a knot you can bow out of this thread now That way you do not have to subject yourself to “immature, lowbrow” threads. If not, a Kentucky “fan” posted this and I would like to refute it with facts and only facts. Thank you:



Lost in the first or second rounds every year but 1 from 2008 through 2014. In 2 of the 4 years you mention, you went down in the third round. The only 2 years the Zags kinda earned their stripes were 15 and 17.

Don’t get me wrong. Nice run for a mid major. But that is all the Zags are. The media and the NCAA have been giving them soft serve for years and they crap the bed. If they had been in a power conference, the seeds would have been more balanced due to the worse performance. This would have put their NCAA performance in a much more realistic light.


https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/pepperdine-kicking-zags.290428/page-2

LOL...I have a simple rejoinder for everyone who #####es about the Zags SOS this year:

We Beat Duke


Nothing more needs to be said.

thespywhozaggedme
03-11-2019, 07:45 PM
LOL...I have a simple rejoinder for everyone who #####es about the Zags SOS this year:

We Beat Duke


Nothing more needs to be said.

But, it's more than that. This is now the 6th dedicated thread on their board about us, it's embarrassing. They keep trying to delegitimize our success by pointing to our conference affiliation. JAzz sad that Khalid El Amin did the same thing on tv today. It's like we've travelled back in time to 2002, the ignorance and animus is absurd. It is rooted in jealousy though, that's for sure.

gonzagafan62
03-11-2019, 07:45 PM
Wait till April 8th, return. No need to lay anymore facts.

thespywhozaggedme
03-11-2019, 07:46 PM
I'm trying to rebut his post with actual facts. Is the "third round" as he put it, the Sweet Sixteen or the Elite Eight?

thespywhozaggedme
03-11-2019, 07:48 PM
It's not just the fact that this part is condescending and elitist, it's incorrect:

Don’t get me wrong. Nice run for a mid major. But that is all the Zags are. The media and the NCAA have been giving them soft serve for years and they crap the bed.

bigblahla
03-11-2019, 07:49 PM
But, it's more than that. This is jow the 6th dedicated thread on their board about us, it's embarrassing. They keep trying to delegitimize our success by pointing to our conference affiliation. JAzz sad that Khalid El Amin did the same thing on tv today. It's like we've travelled back in time to 2002, the ignorance and animus is absurd. It is rooted in jealousy though, that's for sure.

No offense meant but really Spy?.... you and the Kentucky board = train wreck.... we have a great TEAM, a great program and it's only getting better....leave the flat earthers alone... what a waste of positive energy... let them rant and rave.... who gives a chit?

Just my opinion...

Go!! Zags!!!

MDABE80
03-11-2019, 07:50 PM
Spy. Do you REALLY wanna continue along this line? We are no 1 with NO 1 seed. What’s to gain??

TexasZagFan
03-11-2019, 07:51 PM
I'm trying to rebut his post with actual facts. Is the "third round" as he put it, the Sweet Sixteen or the Elite Eight?

Spy, I admire you, but you're just wasting your time. Their entire argument is based on the overall weakness of the WCC, and they're holding onto it for dear (rhetorical) life.


Kentucky is a storied program, one of the bluest of the blue bloods. Kind of like the caste system in India.

SorenTodd45
03-11-2019, 07:51 PM
Arizona beat Kentucky in 1997. AZ was not even the Pac 10 regular season champ. And we still beat them. KU fans need to shut the **** up. They are not Duke, they never will be. I hate the SEC, they are a pox on college basketball.

scrooner
03-11-2019, 07:51 PM
No offense meant but really Spy?.... you and the Kentucky board = train wreck.... we have a great TEAM, a great program and it's only getting better....leave the flat earthers alone... what a waste of positive energy... let them rant and rave.... who gives a chit?

Just my opinion...

Go!! Zags!!!

This.

TexasZagFan
03-11-2019, 07:52 PM
It's not just the fact that this part is condescending and elitist, it's incorrect:

Don’t get me wrong. Nice run for a mid major. But that is all the Zags are. The media and the NCAA have been giving them soft serve for years and they crap the bed.

Cognitive thinking is not a hallmark of the University of Kentucky.

ZagNation
03-11-2019, 07:53 PM
Arizona beat Kentucky in 1997. AZ was not even the Pac 10 regular season champ. And we still beat them. KU fans need to shut the **** up. They are not Duke, they never will be. I hate the SEC, they are a pox on college basketball.

KU = Kansas

UK = Kentucky

TexasZagFan
03-11-2019, 07:54 PM
Arizona beat Kentucky in 1997. AZ was not even the Pac 10 regular season champ. And we still beat them. KU fans need to shut the **** up. They are not Duke, they never will be. I hate the SEC, they are a pox on college basketball.

You just offended every fan of the Jayhawks...lol.

thespywhozaggedme
03-11-2019, 07:55 PM
Scrooner, blah and abe, you literally have nothing to complain about because this advisory for the highbrow poster was given at the beginning of the thread:

I will preface my post by saying that it is from a Kentucky fan on the Kentucky Board so if this gets your knickers in a knot you can bow out of this thread now That way you do not have to subject yourself to “immature, lowbrow” threads.

you can't complain about a thread when you were told upfront what the thread would be about. Well, technically you can, because you did, but your complaints fall on deaf ears, because you ignored the advisory and chose to post anyway.

raise the zag
03-11-2019, 07:56 PM
Not worth it.

We aren't magically changing a group POV, by a data filled, objective, factual post. Been there, done that. It's forgotten tomorrow and doesn't fit theor narrative/script re: Zags.

We will like it, they won't care.

It's more about us right now anyway.

thespywhozaggedme
03-11-2019, 07:57 PM
Not worth it.

We aren't magically changing a group POV, by a data filled, objective, factual post. Been there, done that. It's forgotten tomorrow and doesn't fit theor narrative/script on Zags.

We will like it, they won't care.

It's more about us right now anyway.

See, I don't understand that. If empirical facts are opposite of your opinion, why wouldn't you change your opinion? Facts don't care about your feelings. sigh

gonzagafan62
03-11-2019, 07:58 PM
Scrooner, blah and abe, you literally have nothing to complain about because this advisory for the highbrow poster was given at the beginning of the thread:

I will preface my post by saying that it is from a Kentucky fan on the Kentucky Board so if this gets your knickers in a knot you can bow out of this thread now That way you do not have to subject yourself to “immature, lowbrow” threads.

you can't complain about a thread when you were told upfront what the thread would be about. Well, technically you can, because you did, but your complaints fall on deaf ears, because you ignored the advisory and chose to post anyway.

I don’t think anyone is getting knickers in a hoot spy. We are telling you and giving you advice lol. Stop wasting your time and clogging up our board with nonsense. It’s not like this is new info ... lol

thespywhozaggedme
03-11-2019, 08:05 PM
I don’t think anyone is getting knickers in a hoot spy. We are telling you and giving you advice lol. Stop wasting your time and clogging up our board with nonsense. It’s not like this is new info ... lol

I think I’ve actually told you this before but whoever keeps forcing you to open threads and post in them against your free will should be banned from this board permanently.

TexasZagFan
03-11-2019, 08:06 PM
I think I’ve actually told you this before but whoever keeps forcing you to open threads and post in them against your free will should be banned from this board permanently.

There's an ender if ever I saw one.

willandi
03-11-2019, 08:07 PM
I think I’ve actually told you this before but whoever keeps forcing you to open threads and post in them against your free will should be banned from this board permanently.

Would that not be you giving titillating titles to your threads?

gonzagafan62
03-11-2019, 08:08 PM
I think I’ve actually told you this before but whoever keeps forcing you to open threads and post in them against your free will should be banned from this board permanently.

You don’t get it lol.

CDC84
03-11-2019, 08:13 PM
Mid majors don't fly a charter to every game (UCLA doesn't).

Mid majors don't generate more program revenue and invest in their program more than any Pac 12 team besides Arizona. Reference this site:

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

They don't make the tournament 20 years in a row (is it 20?). They don't recruit a top 5 recruiting class like the 2019 class at 247sports. The coach doesn't turn down jobs at Indiana, UCLA, Arizona and others. They don't have a multi-million buck TV contract with Root Sports, and are in the top 5 in appearances on ESPN every year. And if what they are doing were so simple, why has no one else done it?? Mid majors don't make the sweet 16 or better 4 years in a row. They don't only lose three first round games in 20 years.

That being said, follow the advice of others in this thread. These are people who request to be buried in Kentucky warm up uniforms. Many of them are not dealing with a full deck. Some are very drunk on bad sour mash.

thespywhozaggedme
03-11-2019, 08:19 PM
Would that not be you giving titillating titles to your threads?

Is it my fault that I write such a good copy?:D

JPtheBeasta
03-11-2019, 08:20 PM
1999-00...10 seed...Sweet 16...(L) Purdue (#6)
2000-01...12 seed...Sweet 16...(L) Michigan St (#1)
2001-02...6 seed...1st round (ie lost in 1st round)..Wyoming
2002-03...9 seed...2nd round (ie lost in 2nd round)... (L) Arizona (#1)
2003-04...2 seed...2nd round...(L) Nevada (#10)
2004-05...3 seed...2nd round...(L) Texas Tech (#6)
2005-06...3 seed...Sweet 16...(L) UCLA (#2)
2006-07...10 seed..1st round...(L) Indiana (#7)
2007-08...7 seed...1st round...(L) Davidson (#10)
2008-09...4 seed...Sweet 16...(L) UNC (#1)
2009-10...8 seed...2nd round...(L) Syracuse (#1)
**Play-in game added for 2011 tournament**
2010-11...11 seed..3rd round (ie lost their second game)...(L) BYU (#3)
2011-12...7 seed...3rd round...(L) Ohio St (#2)
2012-13...1 seed...3rd round...(L) Wichita St (#9)
2013-14...8 seed...3rd round...(L) Arizona (#1)
2014-15...2 seed...Elite 8...……(L) Duke (#1)
2015-16...11 seed..Sweet 16...(L) Syracuse (#10)
2016-17...1 seed...Runner Up.(L) UNC (#1)
2017-18...4 seed...Sweet 16..(L) FSU (#9)

MJ777
03-11-2019, 08:23 PM
The 89-90 UNLV team played in The Big West and won the tourney. But unlike GU they cheated like some Power Conference Blue Bloods do.

JPtheBeasta
03-11-2019, 08:33 PM
I guess the big question is not if GU is a mid-major, but when. You can pick any arbitrary period of time to make your point, but GU most definitely has had the performance to rival most, and be better than many, power conference schools. The fact that they would have qualified for at-large bids most of the seasons above says something, as well. I couldn't help noticing/re-living the fact that GU has been knocked out of the tournament by some very good teams. Of the woulda-shoulda-coulda variety:
Wyoming was a stinker
Nevada was the Turiaf foul-trouble game (I believe)
Davidson was Steph Curry in his back yard
Wichita St was a buzz-saw with their shooting (should have won that anyway)


I should have researched the Zag's seeds in each of the tournament games above, but at first blush they didn't lose too many that they shouldn't have. 2010-14 (five years) was a rough stretch where they didn't make it out of the first weekend, but look who they ran into...

MJ777
03-11-2019, 08:36 PM
1999-00...Sweet 16...(L) Purdue (#6)
2000-01...Sweet 16...(L) Michigan St (#1)
2001-02...1st round (ie lost in 1st round)..Wyoming
2002-03...2nd round (ie lost in 2nd round)... (L) Arizona (#1)
2003-04...2nd round...(L) Nevada (#10)
2004-05...2nd round...(L) Texas Tech (#6)
2005-06...Sweet 16...(L) UCLA (#2)
2006-07...1st round...(L) Indiana (#7)
2007-08...1st round...(L) Davidson (#10)
2008-09...Sweet 16...(L) UNC (#1)
2009-10...2nd round...(L) Syracuse (#1)
**Play-in game added for 2011 tournament**
2010-11...3rd round (ie lost their second game)...(L) BYU (#3)
2011-12...3rd round...(L) Ohio St (#2)
2012-13...3rd round...(L) Wichita St (#9)
2013-14...3rd round...(L) Arizona (#1)
2014-15...Elite 8...……(L) Duke (#1)
2015-16...Sweet 16...(L) Syracuse (#10)
2016-17...Runner Up.(L) UNC (#1)
2017-18... Sweet 16..(L) FSU (#9)

Zags are undefeated vs The SEC in the tourney.

thespywhozaggedme
03-11-2019, 08:37 PM
1999-00...Sweet 16...(L) Purdue (#6)
2000-01...Sweet 16...(L) Michigan St (#1)
2001-02...1st round (ie lost in 1st round)..Wyoming
2002-03...2nd round (ie lost in 2nd round)... (L) Arizona (#1)
2003-04...2nd round...(L) Nevada (#10)
2004-05...2nd round...(L) Texas Tech (#6)
2005-06...Sweet 16...(L) UCLA (#2)
2006-07...1st round...(L) Indiana (#7)
2007-08...1st round...(L) Davidson (#10)
2008-09...Sweet 16...(L) UNC (#1)
2009-10...2nd round...(L) Syracuse (#1)
**Play-in game added for 2011 tournament**
2010-11...3rd round (ie lost their second game)...(L) BYU (#3)
2011-12...3rd round...(L) Ohio St (#2)
2012-13...3rd round...(L) Wichita St (#9)
2013-14...3rd round...(L) Arizona (#1)
2014-15...Elite 8...……(L) Duke (#1)
2015-16...Sweet 16...(L) Syracuse (#10)
2016-17...Runner Up.(L) UNC (#1)
2017-18... Sweet 16..(L) FSU (#9)

Thank you for that. Quick question, do you happen to know what our seed was in those games? Thanks

LTownZag
03-11-2019, 08:57 PM
A: I agree with the consensus - you aren't going to convince people with data

B: There's really not a main factual claim being made in that post which you are seeking to refute. It's got a general mood and feeling that I understand is off-putting. For example, what does it mean to "earn your stripes"? I'd say a team has earned its stripes if it makes the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 (goes 2-1 or 3-1 in the tourney) as a double digit seed (average tourney wins for 10 seeds = .618.)

The only claim I see that could reasonably be disproved by facts is the idea that "The NCAA have been giving them soft serve for years and they crap the bed". If by "NCAA" the person means the NCAA seeding committee, and by "soft serve" they mean we've been given weaker opponents by virtue of unearned high seeds, and by "crapped the bed" they mean performed worse than expected or below average for even some inflated "soft serve" seed assigned. (you basically have to actually define and clarify that person's assertion before you can refute it).

In 20 years of tournaments, we've had only 4 years of a #2 or #1 seed. Our average tournament seed is 6.45. We've won 2 or 3 tourney games as a double digit seed 5 times. That's more years than the total number of seasons we've had a #1 or #2 seed.

6th seeded teams average 1.08 wins per year, Gonzaga has averaged 1.55 wins/year with an average seed of 6.45. That is more wins than the average for all 4 seed teams all time, Gonzaga doing it despite being seeded between 6 and 7. So we are playing harder teams than 4 seeds, and winning more games than 4 seeds, but being given (treated by the NCAA?) a 6/7 seed.

The gold standard for evaluating a team's NCAA record relative to how they are seeding (evaluated by the NCAA) is here. (http://bracketodds.cs.illinois.edu/seedadv.html)

JPtheBeasta
03-11-2019, 09:08 PM
Thank you for that. Quick question, do you happen to know what our seed was in those games? Thanks

I edited the above (on page one) to include seeds (per Wikipedia)

caduceus
03-11-2019, 11:23 PM
Per KenPom, the Zags' and Kentucky's OOC SOS is 103 and 104, respectively. So even Steven. The Zags lost two, to top 10 teams (currently #7 and #5 Kenpom). Kentucky lost two, to #3 (a team we beat), and a #59 Seton Hall.

If Kentucky is on another level than the Zags, then you have to explain the above. And why are all five of Kentucky's losses to teams equal or worse than GU's loss opponents?

If NET considers SOS, and they have such a more grueling schedule, why aren't they ranked #1 in NET, of which there is no subjective component? Even by the now outdated RPI standards, the Zags are higher than Kentucky by two spots (#5 vs. #7).

There's little point in arguing with some rabid blue blood fans, particularly ones that have fewer brains than teeth.

soccerdud
03-12-2019, 12:10 AM
The whelping box is such a hit... Maybe we can make spy his own dedicated forum for taking about other teams' boards. Mods? Lots of opportunity here for fun names, too... Madlib style: The _________ing Box.

thespywhozaggedme
03-12-2019, 04:21 AM
I edited the above (on page one) to include seeds (per Wikipedia)

Thanks

gueastcoast
03-12-2019, 04:22 AM
Sympathetic to spy here, but also to the view that debating the subnormals on that board (or many P6 boards) is an utterly lost cause.

With respect to UK, am hoping we get a chance to settle it where it belongs -- on the court.

Birddog
03-12-2019, 05:24 AM
Spy, I think you are too emotionally invested to be doing the refuting. I think all refuting should be assigned to GoZags and it should be at his discretion when or where he puts the foolish poster to shame. Those trolls just thrive on stirring people like you up.

Spike#1
03-12-2019, 06:17 AM
I don’t think anyone is getting knickers in a hoot spy. We are telling you and giving you advice lol. Stop wasting your time and clogging up our board with nonsense. It’s not like this is new info ... lol

This

Markburn1
03-12-2019, 08:20 AM
Debating the likes of Ashley Judd is not good for your sanity.

Saxon_zag
03-12-2019, 11:18 AM
Dont try to reason with southerners on politics or sports teams. They don't listen.

bartruff1
03-12-2019, 11:42 AM
I am just here to one star the thread...

thespywhozaggedme
03-12-2019, 12:05 PM
I am just here to one star the thread...

Do I lose my job over that? Do my kids love me any less? Do I suffer sever and uncontrollable diarrhea? I find it comical that not only does a grown man brag about giving someone a 1 star, but he does it with malice and glee. Dude, we're grown men talking about teenagers and young men trying to put as ball in as hoop. Me thinks you're taking this message board thing a wee bit too seriously.

bartruff1
03-12-2019, 12:26 PM
I intended it to be constructive...really you should get some perspective ..it is a terrible thread...

thespywhozaggedme
03-12-2019, 03:26 PM
I intended it to be constructive...really you should get some perspective ..it is a terrible thread...

People don’t boast if they want to do something “constructive” they do it with humility and anonymity. Whoever forced you to open and post in this thread against your will should be banned.

bartruff1
03-12-2019, 03:46 PM
My panties are not in a knot....no one has forced me to post....I could have rated the tread as terrible anonymously but I am more forthright and truthful than that...

I am happy that at least you recognize that if someone has a different opinion..... that your kids will still love you....that you will keep you job...... and that your bowel movements will be solid and predictable ….that is a good start....

You can have the last word if you would like and I will apologize in advance for not replying ….have a nice day

JPtheBeasta
03-12-2019, 04:01 PM
So... did you set the record straight over there?

thespywhozaggedme
03-12-2019, 04:20 PM
So... did you set the record straight over there?

I copied and pasted a lot of the stuff that you guys gave me. There were about a handful of posters over there that were very kind and respectful and acknowledged the talent on the team despite the conference. But the vast majority are elitist condescending haters. Oh well, we have those types on our board too.