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YukonJack
02-27-2019, 03:11 PM
I came up with 35 names. The additional 10 were honorable mentions. The 10 were : Heytvelt, S Gray, A Daye,M Downs, G Bell Jr, M Hart, D Stockton, S Dower, Z Norvelle, and C Violette.

All of this is arguable, controversial, and opinions . I get it that my list will not match anyones.

25. Zack Collins
24. R Sacre
23. K Tillie
22. J Williams
21. JP Batista
20. M Bouldin
19. J Pargo
18. D Raivio
17.B Clarke
16. R Frahm
15. S Karnowski
14. K Wiltjer
13. N W Goss
12. K Pangos
11. J Perkins
10. B Stepp
09. K Olynyk
08. R Turiaf
07. M Santangelo
06. C Calvary
05. E Harris
04. D. Dickau
03. A. Morrison
02. R Hachimura
01. D Sabonis

Norvell , Clarke, Tillie , and Hachimura are still playing so they will almost certainly move up. Kispert is close to honorable mention and if he continues will most likely end up in top 25. I considered years played and how far team went. Goss would contend for top 5 but only had 1 year. Had Olynik n Harris made Elite 8 that would have made a big difference. Heytvelt blew it and I considered Violette at 25th.

In conclusion there are so many. My list is obviously not the end all. Morrison and Dickau just didn't play any defense. Maybe I rated Wilther too high. Bouldins teams under achieved and it cost S Gray as well. One year players had tough time making cut. Zack Collins may have been nr 1 if he stayed 3 years possibly. Sabonis was a monster and he led us to us to a different gear which resulted in what the Zags are today.

jazzdelmar
02-27-2019, 03:23 PM
You got #1 right. And your top 5 are a pretty good team.

phxfireflames
02-27-2019, 03:40 PM
imo Steven Gray belongs on the Top 25 list. Guy was a baller on and off the court all 4 years.

tinfoilzag
02-27-2019, 03:46 PM
Good on ya for putting out a list that no one will agree with :clap:, It's a pretty good list.

Batista, J. Williams, Pargo too low. Harris and Wiltjer too high.

Could we get one honorary spot for 'Zag glue guy' for guys like Pendo and Hart?

Vanilla Gorilla
02-27-2019, 04:04 PM
Just for fun I added mine. I didnt put as much thought into this as you, but there are some I very much disagree with. I think the hard part is the overall talent level has risen so much. If Rui played in 1999 he would have been far and away the best player on that team IMO, but i have to consider impact. So I may think he is more talented than Calvary or Turiaf, but I have him lower because those guys had to do more with less talented teammates. So I considered talent, impact, team success, longevity of career. The fact that Rui was a non factor in the final 4 run moves him down, though I think he could more up 5-6 spots with a big tournament performance. With Sabonis I think his talent is top 3 all time, at least, but he only played 2 years and started for 1.


My list would be
HM: Heytvelt, Gray, Daye


25. Erroll Knight
24. Cory Violette
23. Zach Norvell
22. Robert Sacre
21. Brandon Clarke
20. JP Batista
19. Matt Bouldin
18. Jeremy Pargo
17. Derek Raivio
16. Josh Perkins
15. Kyle Wiltjer
14. Richie Frahm
13. Shem Karnowski
12. Nigel Williams Goss
11. Rui Hachimura
10. Kevin Pangos
09. Kelly Olynyk
08. Domas Sabonis
07. Elias Harris
06. Ronny Turiaf
05. Casey Calvary
04. Dan Dickau
03. Matt Santangelo
02. Blake Stepp
01. Adam Morrison

MontanaCoyote
02-27-2019, 04:08 PM
Is this a top talent, best player list or a ‘most valuable player’ list, factoring in all the statistical and intangibles a player brought to the team? Or, maybe both? Just asking. Big difference for me in judging the list.

Just sayin’..........Wilt Chamberlin would rank very high on an all time NBA best player list, but would rank significantly lower
on a total package, most valuable player to his team list, because it was common knowledge that he wasn’t a team player.

SorenTodd45
02-27-2019, 05:07 PM
I could never vote Adam #1. He cried like a 5 year old in that horrible UCLA game which is burned in my memory forever. I'm glad it's just a memory, and I take solace in that the Joke-12 is now a complete joke.

gonzagafan62
02-27-2019, 05:17 PM
I could never vote Adam #1. He cried like a 5 year old in that horrible UCLA game which is burned in my memory forever. I'm glad it's just a memory, and I take solace in that the Joke-12 is now a complete joke.

Those aren’t tears of sorrow. That’s tears of exhaustion and not seeing your dream all the way through.

bartruff1
02-27-2019, 06:36 PM
I'll make some popcorn.....

GrizZAG
02-27-2019, 07:30 PM
This is tough. We've had so many outstanding players to enjoy and while comparisons can be made each had a unique talent unlike any other.
My fav's

The list is quite subjective and personal for myself, so data be damned these are my guys.

1. Adam Morrison (gritty, had a need and will to win), most exciting player all time. Made up for lazy defense with scorching offense.
2. Brandon Clarke: Unlike Morrison in any way, but most athletic and exciting player I can remember since Ammo. He dazzles.
2. (Tie) Kelly O: His leap from Frosh to redshirt to star was breathtaking.
3. Sabonis: unstoppable motor, heart of a lion, skilled.
4. NWG: Hardest working guard, tough as nails and took over games entirely at times.
5 J. Williams: just loved his game and his story.
6. Josh Perkins: Took us to a title game and just might do it twice. His vision and passing is second to none this year. I finally trust his play.
7. Jeremy Pargo: Amazing athlete that improved tremendously over his time as a Zag
8. Zach Norvelle: Snacks is clutch. Plays at wide open tip to tip.
9. Ronny T: Awesome big man
10. Dan D: Just wow, scorched the nets
11. Ravio: Never felt more comfortable if the ball was in his hands and more so at the FT Line.
12. Hachimura: Probably the highest eventual ceiling but still has lots of growth opportunities IMO.
13. Calvalry: Force to recon with, will to win
15. M. Santangelo: Gutsy and without him the program isn't where we are today.
16. Pangos: His injuries hampered what he could have been but was incredible even injured.
17. Errol Knight: He could turn it on. Never reached his potential as a player but had a wow factor I loved at times.
18. Shem Karnowski: The lovable giant that had gigantic obstacles to endure and he did. Had a bad game, unfortunately it was for a NC.
19. Josh Heytveldt; Had a really high ceiling IMO.
20. E. Harris
21. JP Batista
22. Tillie
23. Fram
24. Bolden
25. Gray

Trying to do this is near impossible so I threw objectivity out the window, I just like these guys a ton and not necessarily in the order I listed. How blessed Gonzaga has been. Looking at this list is just stunning.

gonzagafan62
02-27-2019, 07:40 PM
1. Ronny Turiaf
2. Adam Morrison
3. Dan Dickau
4. Matt Santangelo
5. Casey Calvary
6. Blake Stepp
7. Kevin Pangos
8. Josh Perkins
9. Przemek Karnowski
10. Derek Raivio
11. Domas Sabonis
12. Rui Hachimura
13. Elias Harris
14. Jeremy Pargo
15. Richie Frahm
16. Steven Gray
17. Sam Dower
18. Matt Bouldin
19. Quentin Hall
20. Robert Sacre
21. JP Bautista
22. Alex Hernandez
23. Killian Tillie
24. Josh Heytvelt
25. Kyle Wiltjer

1 year wonders off the list: NWG, Marquise Carter, Zach Collins, Kelly Olynyk, Brandon Clarke just to name a few

Close but no cigar: Johnathan Williams III, Austin Daye, Mike Hart, Abdul Kuso, Zach Gourde, David Stockton, Micah Downs, Silas Melson

Alum08
02-27-2019, 09:05 PM
This thread needs some more love for Gary Bell. He was, at most times, a superior two way player than Pangos. He was just as mentally brilliant on the defensive end as Pangos was on O.

ZagNation
02-27-2019, 10:43 PM
I will throw my top 25 in here.

In no particular order.

1. Matt Santangelo
2. Josh Perkins
3. Casey Calvary
4. Richie Frahm
5. Adam Morrison
6. Domantis Sabonis
7. Kevin Pangos
8. NWG
9. Przemek Karnowski
10. Ronny Turiaf
11. Robert Sacre
12. Jeremy Pargo
13. Matt Bouldin
14. Steven Gray
15. Elias Harris
16. Blake Stepp
17. Dan Dickau
18. Kyle Wiltjer
19. Gary Bell Jr.
20. Josh Heytvelt
21. Kelly Olynyk
22. JP Batista
23. Zach Norvell
24. Rui Hachimura
25. Brandon Clarke

Mantua
02-27-2019, 10:53 PM
No wonder there’s so much bickering.

My list would be just as emotional.

MontanaZag
02-28-2019, 02:26 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MickMick
02-28-2019, 03:52 AM
My favorites? Calvary, and Morrison.

The best? That one is really tough. One of Sabonis, Clarke, Goss, Morrison, Olynyk, Santangelo, Calvary, or Perkins. They would be my top 8 in no particular order. One thing mostly in common, they all left early except Calvary, Santangelo, and Perkins. Could those eight win a title as a team? Without a doubt. Would likely be the odds on favorite for any given year.

We will never know how good Zach Collins could have been. Came off the bench his only season here, but was huge in post season.

GoZags
02-28-2019, 06:46 AM
Not sure I could comfortably have a "Top 25" list .... maybe top 35-50 as there isn't one guy listed in the 16 previous posts I'd want to eliminate.

That being said ... I know the five guys who WOULD be my earlier referenced alltime Top 5 favorite Zags .... and of course that's using my own definition of "Zag".

Mark Spink
David Pendergraft
Jeremy Jones
Ronny Turiaf
David Stockton


He is in my alltime Top 5 favorite Zags .... ever.
http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?63802-Jeremy-Jones&p=1405939#post1405939

Reborn
02-28-2019, 07:23 AM
Just for fun I added mine. I didnt put as much thought into this as you, but there are some I very much disagree with. I think the hard part is the overall talent level has risen so much. If Rui played in 1999 he would have been far and away the best player on that team IMO, but i have to consider impact. So I may think he is more talented than Calvary or Turiaf, but I have him lower because those guys had to do more with less talented teammates. So I considered talent, impact, team success, longevity of career. The fact that Rui was a non factor in the final 4 run moves him down, though I think he could more up 5-6 spots with a big tournament performance. With Sabonis I think his talent is top 3 all time, at least, but he only played 2 years and started for 1.


My list would be
HM: Heytvelt, Gray, Daye


25. Erroll Knight
24. Cory Violette
23. Zach Norvell
22. Robert Sacre
21. Brandon Clarke
20. JP Batista
19. Matt Bouldin
18. Jeremy Pargo
17. Derek Raivio
16. Josh Perkins
15. Kyle Wiltjer
14. Richie Frahm
13. Shem Karnowski
12. Nigel Williams Goss
11. Rui Hachimura
10. Kevin Pangos
09. Kelly Olynyk
08. Domas Sabonis
07. Elias Harris
06. Ronny Turiaf
05. Casey Calvary
04. Dan Dickau
03. Matt Santangelo
02. Blake Stepp
01. Adam Morrison

I'm going with five teams of five on each team.

1. NW Goss
Adam Morrison
Rui Hachimura
Domas Sabonis
Ronny Turiaf

2. Dan Dickau
Blake Stepp
Richie Frahm
Brandon Clarke
Kelly Olynyk

3. Matt Santangelo
Matt Bouldin
Steven Gray
Casey Calvary
Shem Karnowski

4. Josh Perkins
Jeremy Pargo
Zach Norvell
Kyle Wiltjer
JP Batista

5. Kevin Pangos
Derek Paivio
Elias Harris
Corey Violette
Robert Sacre

zagsfanforlife
02-28-2019, 07:47 AM
Some great players who have come through the program..

I would rate NWG higher than most though.... he has done something no PG before him did.. take the zags to a championship. Morrison was the most iconic though in programs history. Sabonis probably the most skilled. Ronny the greatest face. Frahm or Dickau the best shooter.

former1dog
02-28-2019, 08:15 AM
I get a kick out of the fact that it is the general consensus that we have had some many good/great players that we have a thread debated the best 25!! An embarassment of riches!

jazzdelmar
02-28-2019, 08:26 AM
The Bonus, KO, Ammo, DD and Goss.....

YukonJack
02-28-2019, 10:21 AM
My intensions was to rate the best players with added element of how successful the team was , the impact of the player. I could have used a metric system where you get valued points for team success, individual awards, statistical top 10 tens etc. That would take a long time and I would have to use own personal value system. I may do that during off season. Take each individual player and figure it out. Off the top of my head lake Stepp metrics woukd be high as well as Josh Perkins.

Ezag
02-28-2019, 10:48 AM
Just for fun and impossible to do off the top of your head. You can't pick Rui over Morrison on an individual basis. Rui has all the physical tools, Morrison had the drive and averaged 28pts a game his junior year! Heytvelt had 2 seasons where he averaged 15pts a game on good teams. And what about Rillie (before 98 but damn). Dude shot over 40% from 3's his entire college career and averaged 15pts a game in his last year. Violette was solid and consistent (almost a double-double guy for 2-3 years) and never got hurt. The intangibles are hard to calculate. I could go on with others but then this post would go on forever. I understand this is all subjective but too difficult to do especially down to the top 10.

PeninsulaDog
02-28-2019, 10:51 AM
It know these two players are outside the '98-to-present parameters, but how about a little appreciation for Bakari Hendrix and Lorenzo Rollins? Hendrix was absolutely instrumental in the Zags' first NCAA appearance, and I'm not sure the program had a more athletic guard in its history, to that point, than Rollins. They were just slightly before the run that started in '99, and I think are too easily forgotten.

GoZags
02-28-2019, 10:58 AM
It know these two players are outside the '98-to-present parameters, but how about a little appreciation for Bakari Hendrix and Lorenzo Rollins? Hendrix was absolutely instrumental in the Zags' first NCAA appearance, and I'm not sure the program had a more athletic guard in its history, to that point, than Rollins. They were just slightly before the run that started in '99, and I think are too easily forgotten.

Awesome post .... both guys are vastly underappreciated (and possibly unknown) by many on this board.

+ a million (or more)

Pallet
02-28-2019, 11:02 AM
1. Mark Few

Bouldin4Prez
02-28-2019, 11:45 AM
I could never vote Adam #1. He cried like a 5 year old in that horrible UCLA game which is burned in my memory forever. I'm glad it's just a memory, and I take solace in that the Joke-12 is now a complete joke.

You mean the guy that cried after playing his butt off for an entire year, realizing that he was never going to suit up for Gonzaga again? If anything it makes me like Ammo even more, the guy played with so much passion and wanted to win more than anything every single night.

PeninsulaDog
02-28-2019, 12:06 PM
You mean the guy that cried after playing his butt off for an entire year, realizing that he was never going to suit up for Gonzaga again? If anything it makes me like Ammo even more, the guy played with so much passion and wanted to win more than anything every single night.

100% agree: We will never see anyone like Morrison again in a Zag uniform. His '05-'06 season was Maravich-esque -- pure entertainment and we were lucky to witness it. I was at the debacle in Oakland, but that loss can't he hung around his neck. In retrospect, even if they had won that UCLA game, that was as far as they were going to advance in that tournament -- Adam carried that team as far as it went, and his supporting cast just had too many problems.

GoZags
02-28-2019, 12:08 PM
I could never vote Adam #1. He cried like a 5 year old in that horrible UCLA game which is burned in my memory forever. I'm glad it's just a memory, and I take solace in that the Joke-12 is now a complete joke.

Yeah ... I know I am piling on but I wanted to say this. It’s sure a good thing ‘negative rep’ was disabled a decade or so ago as this post couldn’t ever receive enough neg rep to do it justice. At least that is my opinion.

former1dog
02-28-2019, 12:13 PM
Yeah ... I know I am piling on but I wanted to say this. It’s sure a good thing ‘negative rep’ was disabled a decade or so ago as this post couldn’t ever receive enough neg rep to do it justice. At least that is my opinion.


It is a blessing to have something that you love so much that the emotions of that thing can drive you to tears. We've seen that from lots of the Gonzaga Men's Basketball players over the years including Matt Santangelo, Dan Dickau and Adam Morrison just to name a few. I'm blessed to have that with my old team at Gonzaga as well.

I wished SorenTodd45 had that something so he wasn't reduced to mocking it.

Alum08
02-28-2019, 02:23 PM
I just couldn't limit my list to 25 because 26-30 had some very important players that needed mentioning.

1. Adam Morrison
2. Nigel Williams-Goss
3. Domantas Sabonis
4. Ronny Turiaf
5. Kelly Olynyk
6. Brandon Clarke
7. Casey Calvary
8. Rui Hachimura
9. Josh Perkins
10. Przemek Karnowski
11. Jeremy Pargo
12. Matt Santangelo
13. Dan Dickau
14. Kevin Pangos
15. Gary Bell Jr
16. Steven Gray
17. JP Batista
18. Elias Harris
19. Derek Raivio
20. Richie Frahm
21. Matt Bouldin
22. Kyle Wiltjer
23. Johnathan Williams
24. Blake Stepp
25. Zach Norvell
26. Robert Sacre
27. Josh Heytvelt
28. Erroll Knight
29. Cory Violette
30. Austin Daye