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BobZag
11-05-2007, 02:53 PM
I hope Zag fans can be patient because this team will take longer to gel and be cohesive than in recent years. Some newcomers are struggling mightily with Few's complex system and a few veterans have not yet stepped up as expected. Combine the fact that Josh and Pendo are either out or not 100%, plus a new coach trying to install and instill brand new ways of doing some things, and you have a recipe for a slow start with gradual improvement.

Right now, the Zags are a ways away from being anywhere near good.

Patience.

jpwils
11-05-2007, 03:09 PM
Nice thing is that this schedule is relatively easy until Western Kentucky.
Pendo and Josh have time to round into shape.

We should get a long look at some newcomers, redshirts, and players returning from injury like LG.

Kind of a gentlemanly way of handicapping the games so that others are encouraged to step up.

Frankly I see the games against St. Joseph's, Connecticut, Washington State, and Tennessee as being the real litmus tests. I expect us to get beat in about half these games, then regroup and perform pretty well afterwards.

I'm hoping Pargo can stay fresh and healthy.

GonzagaGurl08
11-05-2007, 03:12 PM
I think some of us on this board have their expectations set too high for the beginning of the season. This is a guaranteed measure for failure. Let's lower the bar, and let these guys find their rhythm. As long as we are good to go by the GAS we'll be fine. That's when the games start being worth more.

tyra
11-05-2007, 03:13 PM
Aside from his usual "We're doomed" philosophy, BobZ counsels wisely. This team has all the great assets we enjoy talking about but like a fine wine, it will take wine. Keep our eye on the prize people! And the prize comes much later. Besides, who wants to be the New York Mets of college basketball?

CDC84
11-05-2007, 03:14 PM
Several months ago I pointed out why I really liked the structure of Gonzaga's non-league schedule given the special characteristics of this year's team. I just felt that front loading the schedule would've been a mistake.

Frankly, I am glad more than ever that GU has the three games at home to start the year, and that GU is participating in the supposed "watered down" Great Alaska Shootout field. Playing teams like Western Kentucky, Texas Tech and possibly Butler is going to be challenging enough for the Zags. The last thing the Zags needed was to be facing some school like Georgetown or North Carolina on the road in prime time on ESPN.

This is a team that I am convinced is going to get better and better as the season moves along. They will likely start playing some of their best basketball by the time they take on Tennessee and Memphis.

Do not expect them to just come out and play like they're final 4 material. There are just too many new elements. BobZag describes them well. I said from the beginning that this team would be the most difficult coaching job for Mark Few since he took over the program. He's experiencing things he's never experienced or dealt with as a head coach before. It is a real chore to get a team like this to mesh as a unit....especially when you are not used to having talented depth like this.

cggonzaga
11-05-2007, 03:30 PM
I'm personally not worried one single drop. I agree this is a different type of team Few and co have coached before but it's always the same every year. Coaches are worried about how things are coming together and yet things always come together. No one expects a finished product at the beginning of the year anyhow so what's the hubbub? I'd be more worried if that was the case. Too much negativity around here sometimes. Cheer up fellas, the season's about to start! We've got a great team!

zag67
11-05-2007, 03:38 PM
I also agree with BobZ. The team has many good components, but they are going to take time to learn each other. The hardest part with that many new players (3 freshmen, 1 JV, and then also Theo and LG ( who were off all last year) is for the coaches to figure out how to use them. After the coaches know, then the players have got to mesh into the roles that have been set. Again, this is something that will not happen in 1 or 2 games. All of us need to be patient with mistakes that may occur during this first month or so. But we all need to watch and then have fun reliving the good stuff (not dwell on the short comings). They are young and will learn.

CDC84
11-05-2007, 03:48 PM
No one expects a finished product at the beginning of the year anyhow so what's the hubbub?

Well, Gonzaga played their best basketball of the season last year in their
2nd, 3rd and 4th games of the season.

The problem with many of the recent GU teams is that they maxed out during the non-conference season. Even when the 2005/06 team made the sweet 16and lost that heartbreaker to UCLA, I still felt they weren't playing as well as they did in Maui against Maryland, Michigan State and UConn.

This season's team might not start out like some of those recent teams. It may look ugly at times. But it's also a team that might not max out before the NCAA tournament. We'll see how it goes.

cggonzaga
11-05-2007, 03:56 PM
Agreed CDC, that's what I'm saying. I don't care too much about how they play at the beginning of the year. I believe they'll win 9 of their first 10 games and really not be playing that great. This team has huge upside!

Reborn
11-05-2007, 04:01 PM
GonzagaGurl writes "I think some of us on this board have their expectations set too high for the beginning of the season." When is having our "expectations set too high" a guarentee for FAILURE? I'll put it this way...expect to lose and you probably will (accept for BZ).

What are you suggesting...that we're gonna lose to Emporia State or Montana, or Idaho?

Or should we expect to lose to Western Kentucky, Texas Tech, Butler or Michigan?

I'm sorry, but I amsolutely DISAGREE. I will continue to have high expectations...just as I am sure the Zags have. Will i be realistilc? Of course. The Zags will play like it's their first game, and then like it's their second. But, I'll predict two Zag victories. Should we expect more? Or less?

I also disagree with BZ's conclusion (that we should not expect too much at the beginning of the season). I agree that Few's offensive schemes are complex, agree that we have a new assistant coach. Gonzaga has six guys back from last year that started. I believe that that's a lot. Sure...they will have new defensive schemes. I believe that most ALL teams start out the season slow. Thats how lt should be. Who wants to peak the first week of basketball. But just because we're not peaking this week doesn't mean we wil lose.

spudzag
11-05-2007, 04:09 PM
I think a 7-3 start is a reasonable expectation. I do expect them to win the WCC and win 2 games at the Dance. Pretty high expectations. I would like to see the last 3 games be their best not the first 3!

GonzagaGurl08
11-05-2007, 04:15 PM
Ok, maybe my choice of wording wasn't the best. It seems as if the first 3 games (exhib included) are made out to be a "cake-walk" of sorts. I don't think it is going to be as easy as it may appear. It is going to take time to put all of the puzzle pieces together. That said here's to hoping we give 110% each game and are able to see that come to fruition.

"Practice doesn't make perfect... it makes champions" (this comes from a zag T-shirt I own.) The guys will make it work, they are just going to have to be patient.

surfmonkey89
11-05-2007, 04:17 PM
Can someone please save this and repost it next fall?

We have this conversation every year.

LynetteG
11-05-2007, 04:26 PM
....must.....beat....Michigan.....

Nevtelen
11-05-2007, 04:30 PM
Great thread. I gotta agree with CDC and BZ - I think I'm going to cringe occasionally the first few games probably and just know that blue skies (and less mistakes) are coming...

Edit: BTW, another thing to remember is the Josh and Pendo issue. That could really haunt us early if we loose both of them for a while and then they have to work back into shape. Without those 2, this is a really really really young team. Josh's injury is particularly worrying because it seems similar to past serious injuries and also a little mysterious (as in, his projected healing time keeps getting pushed back)

zagster318
11-05-2007, 04:38 PM
Can someone please save this and repost it next fall?

We have this conversation every year.

+1

sanfranzagsguy20
11-05-2007, 04:46 PM
Can someone please save this and repost it next fall?

We have this conversation every year.

it's bulletin board material on a bulletin board....go figure

if you came in and posted the proverbial "this is our best team ever" thread every day...who would come here and read that consistently

its all about getting the people to read...look who posted it

pbriz
11-05-2007, 04:55 PM
it's bulletin board material on a bulletin board....go figure

if you came in and posted the proverbial "this is our best team ever" thread every day...who would come here and read that consistently

its all about getting the people to read...look who posted it

Its not just BZ, the score wasn't kept at the scrimmage yesterday but we barely won i guess (as in like less than 5 points)

sanfranzagsguy20
11-05-2007, 05:10 PM
Its not just BZ, the score wasn't kept at the scrimmage yesterday but we barely won i guess (as in like less than 5 points)

we barely won and nobody kept score?

awesome

my point is there is nothing in this post that a knowledgable sports fan couldnt have already figured out

this team will take time to gel and its november? didn't see THAT one coming

josh and pendo are out? that MIGHT be a setback...you think?

the newcomers might have trouble grasping the complex offense? thats NEVER happened before

leaving the veterans nameless? nice touch...i'll be back to check on those developments... :) (seriously)

point is i find it amusing how people lose their optimism from one post and a scrimmage in which the score wasn't kept?

let me know when the games start counting...preseason basketball and football and baseball and hockey and whatever ball....mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...if you believe that they do then you are really itching for some real basketball...just like everyone else...that should be the real patience needed here IMO

Reborn
11-05-2007, 05:21 PM
Sanfranzagsguy writes, "point is i find it amusing how people lose their optimism from one post and a scrimmage in which the score wasn't kept?"

I have heard that fans are fickel...What surprises me is GonzagaGurl's post. She's usually an optomist. She almost had me too, but I meditated for five minutes and found a clear picture. The Zags are the Zags, and will fat out play like Zags from the opening tip of our first game. We should all expect THAT. White light fluency...we should night expect at this time of year. Turnovers, expect. Awesome dunks off our fast break...should expect. LG coming in and manhandling opponents...expect.

Fans at K2 going nuts....expect......This is the beginning of our new season, in two days.....LET'S HAVE SOME FUN. For two months now we've been so pumped up, and like sanfranzag says...and now we're worried...COME ON!!!

Ziggy
11-05-2007, 05:31 PM
It's just BZ's anti-jinx, be calm my friends.

HOOTER
11-05-2007, 05:54 PM
There's nothing better to iron out wrinkles than the heat of real competition. I guess my point is that, despite this teams problems, they will do what Zag's do. They will bust their tails and find a way to win when it counts. Sometimes it will be ugly, and their will be some very close games, but I truly believe this team has what it takes to win. Will they lose some games? Of course. I just don't think it's as bad as some predict.

spudzag
11-05-2007, 07:15 PM
....must.....beat....Michigan.....

Hopefully the brackets and wins work out that we play. So you think that will still have an impact?

cggonzaga
11-05-2007, 07:28 PM
Right now, the Zags are a ways away from being anywhere near good.


This just rubs me the wrong way. They are a ways away from being great. They are good now but we know good won't take us where we want to go. It's ludicris (sp?) to say they aren't good. It will take a while for us to be great but this team will get there and it will be much quicker than some here believe. Let them play a meaningful game before throwing out these kind of statements. Practices and scrimmages are no barometer for figuring out what kind of team you have. Some of my worst practicing teams were the best on gamedays.

zag67
11-05-2007, 07:53 PM
The team has all of the elements to be great. They are probably very good right now, but until they have a chance to play games (starting on Tuesday), we do not know (and they do not know) how good they are. Also they are all GREAT individuals and they are just learning how to be a GREAT team. Some people have seen some of the practices, but again the players are beating their own team mates up. Like I have said before, we need to pay attention to the positive things that are happening. I know all of us want them to be great. But to get there, it will take time, practice, making some errors (big and small), do some good things, have fun, learn what the coaches are asking and learn how to make all of their team mates better at both ends of the floor. We need to focus on the positives and let the coaches and players work to improve the rest.

If people keep talking the negatives, that will end up being transferred to the players and they may start doubting themselves. They need to believe in the coaches, the plans, their teammates and themselves. By doing that they will perform to the best that they can. And guess what this will then become a GREAT team.

MickMick
11-05-2007, 08:35 PM
BZ...don't let a tough scrimmage get ya down. Competition breeds excellence. Every guy on the team will be fighting for minutes. They will "get it" soon enough.

GonzagaGurl08
11-05-2007, 08:38 PM
I was just playing a little devil's advocate with y'all. GU eduaction at its best. I have the same high expections, I just know that it will take time to work things out. We are a very young team. We have to learn how to play together, it's just like learning to ride a bike. Once you learn how, you never forget, hopefully once the guys build awesome chemistry it will never go away.

xjzico
11-05-2007, 08:39 PM
The "talent" on this roster is tantalizing but to me only 2 players have consistantly shown anything. I kind of read this as don't jump off the cliff if preseason expactations don't work out. Winning the WCC in the best form possible should be the goal of this team and then they should deal with the tournament.

Nevtelen
11-05-2007, 09:14 PM
The "talent" on this roster is tantalizing but to me only 2 players have consistantly shown anything. I kind of read this as don't jump off the cliff if preseason expactations don't work out. Winning the WCC in the best form possible should be the goal of this team and then they should deal with the tournament.

That's kind of where I am - I'm a little nervous about the first month or so, but I think this team will be really rolling come tourney time (with some luck and no more injuries, knock on wood).

JAGzag
11-06-2007, 02:14 AM
It's just BZ's anti-jinx, be calm my friends.

That's the first thing that came to mind :) Am I the only one who remembers the start of last year's NIT?? :D We were going to get blown out by Baylor!!

bayzag09
11-06-2007, 03:47 AM
GU eduaction at its best.

i know its a simple typo, but the irony couldn't go unnoticed :lmao:

Ibellibie
11-06-2007, 06:00 AM
i know its a simple typo, but the irony couldn't go unnoticed :lmao:

And as for your apostrophe? (Or lack thereof.) :)

That's why I will not be pursuing a GU education. :p

DixieZag
11-06-2007, 06:25 AM
Lets break down what BZ said, "the team will take time to Gel" -- being realistic and being optimistic are not incompatible, "take time" realistic-- of course it will, "gel" optimistic--we have a good record here, and no reason not to continue.

2 rules to live by:

1: Never panic
2: If you panic, panic first.

No reason to be the first to jump off this boat as it sail ruggedly away.

Luv 'yall

Dixie

LynetteG
11-06-2007, 06:46 AM
Hopefully the brackets and wins work out that we play. So you think that will still have an impact?

*cough, cough*

BobZag
11-06-2007, 09:01 AM
BZ...don't let a tough scrimmage get ya down. Competition breeds excellence. Every guy on the team will be fighting for minutes. They will "get it" soon enough.

I agree, MM, that they will "get it", but not as soon as most previous editions of the Zags, ie, Maui in 2005, pre-NIT in 2006... Nothing is based on any one scrimmage. It's what I've been hearing since October 12th. I'll stand by what I said. Zags will be good...in time...when they need to be.

former1dog
11-06-2007, 09:14 AM
And as for your apostrophe? (Or lack thereof.) :)

That's why I will not be pursuing a GU education. :p

I take it, then, that your college search depends entirely upon the proper use of punctuation and grammar by patrons of the host institution's unofficial basketball message board?

:p :p (indeed)

Reborn
11-06-2007, 09:29 AM
I think what BZ says makes a lot of sense because we have 6 new players to fit into the rotation (I'm assuming they all will NOT redshirt). Whenever you have new players to fit into your system iT will take time. However, if Few brings them along slowly (which may not be the case with Daye and Gray) then we should still be able to win most non conference games (with Heytvelt, Pendo, Kuso, Bouldin, Downs, and Pargo). I think everything will depend on how much playing time the new players get. I am sure that in our first few games they will all get playing time, as Coach Few will want an "on court" assessment. However, as time goes along Coach Few will begin to define roles and playing time. This, as BZ says, will take time and patience.

gamagin
11-06-2007, 11:27 AM
This team will take time to gel - Bob Z

To climb steep hills requires a slow pace at first - B. Shakespeare
--
to which longtime Zag fan, benefactor & season ticket holder R.E. Lee suggested impatiently:

Grab your enemy by the balls, the rest of him WILL follow!

To each I add: I agree

cggonzaga
11-06-2007, 01:34 PM
Jealousy could rear it's ugly head this season, which is never good for team chemistry.


Not saying it couldn't happen during the year but the coaches think this is one of the closest teams they've ever had. The guys seem to really like each other.