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titopoet
11-26-2018, 02:06 PM
And LMU is is in the top 10 in NCAA's New Net ratings. These will be more important as the season progresses as the committee uses them for seeding and at large bids. Here is the top ten: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaas-new-net-rankings-debut-ohio-state-shockingly-no-1-with-duke-no-6-and-kentucky-no-61/
(https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaas-new-net-rankings-debut-ohio-state-shockingly-no-1-with-duke-no-6-and-kentucky-no-61/)
1 Ohio State Big Ten
2 Virginia ACC
3 Texas Tech Big 12
4 Michigan Big Ten
5 Gonzaga WCC
6 Duke ACC
7 Michigan St. Big Ten
8 Wisconsin Big Ten
9 Virginia Tech ACC
10 Loyola Marymount WCC

Here's a link to the NCAA's Men's Basketball NET Rankings Page: LINK (https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings)

ZagsObserver
11-26-2018, 02:14 PM
And LMU is is in the top 10 in NCAA's New Net ratings. These will be more important as the season progresses as the committee uses them for seeding and at large bids. Here is the top ten: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaas-new-net-rankings-debut-ohio-state-shockingly-no-1-with-duke-no-6-and-kentucky-no-61/
(https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaas-new-net-rankings-debut-ohio-state-shockingly-no-1-with-duke-no-6-and-kentucky-no-61/)
1 Ohio State Big Ten
2 Virginia ACC
3 Texas Tech Big 12
4 Michigan Big Ten
5 Gonzaga WCC
6 Duke ACC
7 Michigan St. Big Ten
8 Wisconsin Big Ten
9 Virginia Tech ACC
10 Loyola Marymount WCC

Several flaws in the new system. As flawed as the rpi was, the new system is poorly contrived. I expect it to get tweaked in the next year or two.

sittingon50
11-26-2018, 02:20 PM
GU, LMU & #25 USF all in the Tourney! Good payday for the WCC!!

mgadfly
11-26-2018, 02:23 PM
I predict that if all three of those WCC teams finish the season undefeated, they'll all three make the tourney.

Just saying it is way too early to judge the rankings based on 5-7 games in the non-conference.

CDC84
11-26-2018, 02:24 PM
What's interesting about Ohio State is that while they may have not beaten a team like Duke, they possess two TRUE road wins at Creighton and Cincinnati. LMU has a TRUE road win over UNLV and a neutral floor win over Georgetown. Michigan started with a TRUE road win at #23 Nova and two neutral floor wins vs. George Washington and Providence. As mentioned above, this new system is way, way, way too early to take seriously, but it appears to be rewarding teams who take the show on the road, and when you do so, you don't necessarily need to play a powerhouse, which I think is a welcome change. In other words, Gonzaga is going to flying into Omaha this weekend not really knowing if Creighton is a NCAA tourney or not. But they have all the makings of a team who is at least going to win 20 games. Maybe this New Net system will reward GU for a win at Creighton much more than other systems would?

ZagNative
11-26-2018, 02:34 PM
From Twitter:


Nate Silver
‏Verified account @NateSilver538

These are the worst rankings I've ever seen in any sport, ever. NCAA needs to go completely back to the drawing board.

It will be fun to check in on this ranking system frequently through the season. https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

titopoet
11-26-2018, 02:34 PM
What's interesting about Ohio State is that while they may have not beaten a team like Duke, they possess two TRUE road wins at Creighton and Cincinnati. LMU has a TRUE road win over UNLV and a neutral floor win over Georgetown. Michigan started with a TRUE road win at #23 Nova and two neutral floor wins vs. George Washington and Providence. As mentioned above, this new system is way, way, way too early to take seriously, but it appears to be rewarding teams who take the show on the road, and when you do so, you don't necessarily need to play a powerhouse, which I think is a welcome change. In other words, in appears as if this new system might reward Gonzaga a bit more if they go into Omaha on Saturday and pull out a TRUE road win over an unranked Creighton team.

I think it is too early. Ohio State is so high because they have three road victories, and many like the Zags or Duke haven't ventured out on the road yet and only have neutral site games. (Changes with a trip to Crieghton) Like many analytic rankings, it takes time and more games to sort out. It use to be that KenPom said his ratings were not valuable until 12-15 games. I suspect the Net Rankings will be similar.

adoptedzag
11-26-2018, 04:01 PM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25385890/no-1-ohio-state-ncaa-initial-net-basketball-ratings-raise-questions


By replacing the RPI, the NCAA tried to eliminate a perennial controversy on Selection Sunday. Instead, it appears the NCAA might have created a new set of problems for itself.

RenoZag
11-26-2018, 04:02 PM
Among the critics of the new system Monday was statistician Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight, who called the first list "the worst rankings I've ever seen in any sport, ever."

"I guess I'm not sympathetic because a lot of smart people have worked on this problem (power rankings) for a LONG time and the NCAA ignored all that and came up with something that doesn't reflect methodological best practices and which doesn't make sense, basketball-wise," Silver wrote on Twitter.

Why, I'm shocked. . .shocked, I say

WallaWallaZag
11-26-2018, 05:04 PM
very early in the season so there will be some funky placements, but zags come in at #5...

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

apologies to tito...didn't see that a thread had already been started...and don't know how to delete

LongIslandZagFan
11-26-2018, 07:53 PM
Will have results up tomorrow night.

WBM
11-26-2018, 08:09 PM
I hadn't heard of this ranking system before today. Looking into it I see that margin of victory is a factor now. I had thought it seemed like GU was keeping on the gas a little more then in previous years. This leaves me wondering how much margin of victory is weighted, and whether Mark and staff are purposefully aiming for larger margins even when a game is in hand.

RenoZag
11-26-2018, 08:11 PM
Will have results up tomorrow night.

You're doing the NCAA rankings too !?! Damn, you are a hard working dude. . .

zagsfanforlife
11-26-2018, 08:32 PM
As an LMU alum i have seen them play about 5 times this year. Do not get your hopes up for them to win 17-20 games...

Play very good defense but outside of Bateman, cant score. Georgetown and UNLV are pretty terrible.. and the rest of their schedule has been garbage. THey play UCLA in a week or so-- i expect a 15 point + blowout

NEC26
11-26-2018, 08:37 PM
Pretty ridiculous to get worked up about something that has so little data to work with yet. Its like polling 5 people and projecting that out for the entire U.S. Wait till at least past mid season before making a judgment.

ZagsObserver
11-26-2018, 08:45 PM
My opinion of the new system is not based on the outcome, but the methodology. It’s inherently and gravely flawed.

NEC26
11-26-2018, 08:47 PM
My opinion of the new system is not based on the outcome, but the methodology. It’s inherently and gravely flawed.

What exactly do you have a problem with?

raise the zag
11-26-2018, 08:50 PM
Kinda punishes those teams participating in pre season tournaments playing March-worthy competition, marquee games, top tier teams, & short turn around times BUT on neutral courts.

Our resume is better than any above us but they have played more true road games.

I dunno if I like, but potentially too early to tell.

Ekrub
11-26-2018, 09:08 PM
I hadn't heard of this ranking system before today. Looking into it I see that margin of victory is a factor now. I had thought it seemed like GU was keeping on the gas a little more then in previous years. This leaves me wondering how much margin of victory is weighted, and whether Mark and staff are purposefully aiming for larger margins even when a game is in hand.

It's capped at ten points in the Net rating if I recall correctly.

ZagsObserver
11-26-2018, 09:19 PM
What exactly do you have a problem with?

My top 3:

-Capping margin of victory at ten is ridiculous. It’s almost not meaningful.
-too much credit for away games vs. home games.
-efficiency factors do not take into account the quality of the opponent.

That accounts for a full 3 of the five factors considered. Kenpom is much more predictive of quality resumes.

NEC26
11-26-2018, 09:59 PM
My top 3:

-Capping margin of victory at ten is ridiculous. It’s almost not meaningful.
-too much credit for away games vs. home games.
-efficiency factors do not take into account the quality of the opponent.

That accounts for a full 3 of the five factors considered. Kenpom is much more predictive of quality resumes.

So you want a higher cap for point spread and want a little lower credit for road victories and think the efficiency factors should be tweaked.
How is that gravely flawed exactly? Sounds like you want to tweak it to me.
Maybe give it a couple months and see how it does before freaking out.

ZagsObserver
11-26-2018, 10:02 PM
So you want a higher cap for point spread and want a little lower credit for road victories and think the efficiency factors should be tweaked.
How is that gravely flawed exactly? Sounds like you want to tweak it to me.
Maybe give it a couple months and see how it does before freaking out.

Only five factors are considered. 3 out of five are flawed. They create a rather unbalanced system.

NEC26
11-26-2018, 10:04 PM
Only five factors are considered. 3 out of five are flawed. They create a rather unbalanced system.
In your opinion. Few actually wanted a lot of what your criticising

sittingon50
11-26-2018, 11:40 PM
Why, I'm shocked. . .shocked, I say

Me too.

Have they predicted when they'll give Pacific the Death Penalty?

Zagger
11-27-2018, 05:48 AM
I can't really argue having Zags at #5 with no non-neutral road games yet. Sample size will definitely tell whether this system sucks as much as some are frothing about. Glad we have the AP and Coaches polls to keep things in better perspective. I personally don't give a rip about seeding at the Dance. The NCAA is always going to screw with that - that's, IMHO, one of the many reasons the Dance is so entertaining for college bb fans :)

TexasZagFan
11-27-2018, 05:58 AM
Kinda punishes those teams participating in pre season tournaments playing March-worthy competition, marquee games, top tier teams, & short turn around times BUT on neutral courts.

Our resume is better than any above us but they have played more true road games.

I dunno if I like, but potentially too early to tell.

I was watching Scott Van Pelt last night. He said it's still early, give it time. I think that's fair.

TexasZagFan
11-27-2018, 06:01 AM
I can't really argue having Zags at #5 with no non-neutral road games yet. Sample size will definitely tell whether this system sucks as much as some are frothing about. Glad we have the AP and Coaches polls to keep things in better perspective. I personally don't give a rip about seeding at the Dance. The NCAA is always going to screw with that - that's, IMHO, one of the many reasons the Dance is so entertaining for college bb fans :)

My fear is that the NCAA is looking for a way to advance the interests of the power conferences, perhaps in advance of the elimination of the one and done.

Zagger
11-27-2018, 06:05 AM
My fear is that the NCAA is looking for a way to advance the interests of the power conferences, perhaps in advance of the elimination of the one and done.

That's a good point ..... greed/money/power - hard to ignore that there may be factors other than pure basketball involved.

NEC26
11-27-2018, 06:45 AM
My fear is that the NCAA is looking for a way to advance the interests of the power conferences, perhaps in advance of the elimination of the one and done.

As it is set up now it isn't slanted toward the power conferences. If they start tweaking the efficiency stats to favor tougher schedules then it definitely will though. I'm sure eventually thats what the power conferences will get.

Radbooks
11-27-2018, 09:38 AM
Here's a good look at this new NET by Mike DeCourcy

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/ncaa-basketball/news/hysterical-overreaction-to-ncaa-ratings-release-can-be-a-net-positive-for-the-sport-dan-gavitt-kentucky/9ma54n06jrj01hdpsurzvt5yb

NEC26
11-27-2018, 10:42 AM
Here's a good look at this new NET by Mike DeCourcy

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/ncaa-basketball/news/hysterical-overreaction-to-ncaa-ratings-release-can-be-a-net-positive-for-the-sport-dan-gavitt-kentucky/9ma54n06jrj01hdpsurzvt5yb
Thanks for sharing. Good article that offers some much needed perspective.

Zagceo
11-27-2018, 10:56 AM
should we be pulling Starters with 10 min remaining if this is true?


The NET is a hybrid of performance-based metrics (which rely heavily on a team’s results) and predictive-based (which lean more toward performance and scoring margin).

rijman
11-27-2018, 12:16 PM
Here's a good look at this new NET by Mike DeCourcy

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/ncaa-basketball/news/hysterical-overreaction-to-ncaa-ratings-release-can-be-a-net-positive-for-the-sport-dan-gavitt-kentucky/9ma54n06jrj01hdpsurzvt5yb

Thanks for the link, it explains a lot. I like that all teams start at zero. Because there are too few games played yet for a reasonable sample I'm thinking the NET results should not have been released yet. Apparently they believe it will be a reliable tool at the end of the season.

Mantua
11-27-2018, 12:30 PM
Is there a weighting for back to back games? There should be.

Alum08
11-27-2018, 06:55 PM
Has anyone else taken a look at the initial NCAA NET (NCAA Evaluation Tool) rankings?

https://i.imgur.com/PlyWOuN.jpg

Yes, that's right, the illustrious new NCAA ranking system has Loyola Marymount as the #10 team in the country (among other peculiarities).


Here are the components of the algorithm:

https://i.imgur.com/sp2kOFF.jpg

As is fairly obvious, 4/5 of the components don't take into account the quality of your opponents. I would fully expect Gonzaga to wind up number 1 in this system regardless of whether or not we lose to any of the next 4 teams we play. Good teams in weaker conferences are going to be handsomely rewarded as the season progresses.

willandi
11-27-2018, 08:08 PM
Has anyone else taken a look at the initial NCAA NET (NCAA Evaluation Tool) rankings?

https://i.imgur.com/PlyWOuN.jpg

Yes, that's right, the illustrious new NCAA ranking system has Loyola Marymount as the #10 team in the country (among other peculiarities).


Here are the components of the algorithm:

https://i.imgur.com/sp2kOFF.jpg

As is fairly obvious, 4/5 of the components don't take into account the quality of your opponents. I would fully expect Gonzaga to wind up number 1 in this system regardless of whether or not we lose to any of the next 4 teams we play. Good teams in weaker conferences are going to be handsomely rewarded as the season progresses.

That's sure gonna piss of the P5 (+1) conferences! All the elite 'mid majors' will rank high.

maynard g krebs
11-27-2018, 10:10 PM
When I look at that NET chart, I can't help but think of the South Park underpants gnomes' business model.

1) steal underpants
2) ?
3) profit

heavy emphasis on phase 2.

CDC84
11-28-2018, 12:31 AM
It is way too early to judge the new metric. I always warned people to not even pay attention to the RPI until the 2nd half of conference play. Personally, I wish the NCAA would have kept this to themselves because I knew it would cause people to overreact:

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/hysterical-overreaction-to-ncaa-ratings-release-can-be-a-net-positive-for-the-sport-dan-gavitt-kentucky/9ma54n06jrj01hdpsurzvt5yb



“I think we very much anticipated there would be some head-scratchers here, but we’re also confident that the more games are played, the picture will become clearer,” Gavitt said. “This tool is used in Selection Week in March. Ultimately, it’s not a tool that has full value until an entire schedule has been played out. Obviously, we’re a long way from that.

“Because it’s so new and so different from the RPI, we just think that getting out information, sharing it on a regular basis, letting coaches, student-athletes, fans and the media know what the implications are would be important.”

The NCAA cautions that although the NET will be the primary tool to sort teams so they can be compared by the members of the committee, it is — like the RPI — not the infallible barometer for whether teams reach the tournament field. Fans who prefer and rely on other rankings should remember a team under consideration will have its rankings under several other systems, including KenPom, on its “team sheet” for examination by committee members.

Gavitt indicated he wasn’t shocked that some reacted — he didn’t say overreacted, but I can — to the first NET release. But some of that can be considered a positive for the sport. With the college football conference championship games and playoff pairings coming this weekend, with the NFL nearing its stretch drive, Major League Soccer in its conference finals and both the NBA and NHL a couple of months into their seasons, this would be a time when it would be easy to overlook college hoops.

“That wasn’t the reason for the release,” Gavitt said, “but it’s not a bad thing either, to keep a little attention on college basketball in a crowded landscape.”

Zagceo
12-04-2018, 01:16 PM
Through Games DEC. 03, 2018

RANK
PREVIOUS
SCHOOL
CONFERENCE
RECORD
ROAD
NEUTRAL
HOME
NON DIV I


1
1
Virginia
ACC
8-0
1-0
3-0
4-0
0-0


2
3
Michigan
Big Ten
8-0
1-0
2-0
5-0
0-0


3
2
Gonzaga
WCC
8-0
1-0
3-0
4-0
0-0


4
4
Duke
ACC
7-1
0-0
3-1
4-0
0-0


5
5
Texas Tech
Big 12
7-0
0-0
3-0
4-0
0-0


6
6
Wisconsin
Big Ten
8-1
2-0
2-1
4-0
0-0


7
8
Michigan St.
Big Ten
7-2
1-1
2-1
4-0
0-0


8
7
Auburn
SEC
6-1
0-0
2-1
3-0
1-0


9
9
Nebraska
Big Ten
7-1
1-0
1-1
5-0
0-0


10
14
Kansas
Big 12
6-0
0-0
3-0
3-0
0-0




https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

Pleasant Peninsula
12-04-2018, 01:42 PM
It's starting to look slightly more reasonable already, though I dunno about Nebraska and Nevada is noticeably absent.

Radbooks
12-04-2018, 01:46 PM
It's starting to look slightly more reasonable already, though I dunno about Nebraska and Nevada is noticeably absent.

Nebraska is #9... not absent at all!

kitzbuel
12-04-2018, 01:48 PM
Nebraska is #9... not absent at all!

I think he meant he is not sure about Nebraska's rating and is questioning why Nevada is absent.

Radbooks
12-04-2018, 01:55 PM
I think he meant he is not sure about Nebraska's rating and is questioning why Nevada is absent.

Ah, that makes more sense! :) Sorry for misunderstanding you, PP

PCZ_Frites
12-04-2018, 02:16 PM
It's starting to look slightly more reasonable already, though I dunno about Nebraska and Nevada is noticeably absent.

Nevada is 11th, and I assume they're this low because their best win as of now is at USC (KenPom #63). Nebraska lost to a good Texas Tech team, but also beat Clemson on the road. I can see how this will all smooth out when there are more games played. If Nebraska is a fraud, and ends up going .500 in Big Ten play, they won't be anywhere near Nevada or the top 25 on this thing. As of now, with the small sample size, I think it makes some sense.

Kong-Kool-Aid
12-04-2018, 03:15 PM
Mark Few had a lot of input into this system. I have faith that it will work out to be an effective tool and will be far more favorable to us than RPI

Zagceo
12-11-2018, 08:19 AM
1
1
Michigan
Big Ten
10-0
2-0
2-0
6-0
0-0


2
2
Virginia
ACC
9-0
1-0
3-0
5-0
0-0


3
3
Duke
ACC
9-1
0-0
3-1
6-0
0-0


4
4
Texas Tech
Big 12
8-0
0-0
3-0
5-0
0-0


5
5
Tennessee
SEC
7-1
0-0
2-1
4-0
1-0


6
6
Kansas
Big 12
8-0
0-0
3-0
5-0
0-0


7
7
Gonzaga
WCC
9-1
1-0
3-1
5-0
0-0


8
8
Nevada
MWC
10-0
2-0
4-0
4-0
0-0


9
9
Michigan St.
Big Ten
8-2
2-1
2-1
4-0
0-0


10
10
Auburn
SEC
8-1
0-0
2-1
5-0
1-0

Zagceo
12-17-2018, 10:04 AM
#13

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

MontanaCoyote
12-17-2018, 02:02 PM
Problem: NCAA Net Rankings. Solution: Just Win. Test Over!

willandi
12-17-2018, 03:26 PM
Problem: NCAA Net Rankings. Solution: Just Win. Test Over!

Yep! And the Zags will do that while those above then fall.

Zagceo
12-21-2018, 12:27 PM
#14

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

MontanaCoyote
12-21-2018, 12:45 PM
#14

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

Good! A waiting in ambush, underdog, motivator ranking. Just what we need!

jazzdelmar
12-21-2018, 02:00 PM
Maybe my 3 seed was euphoric.

ZagsGoZags
12-21-2018, 05:12 PM
I predict that if all three of those WCC teams finish the season undefeated, they'll all three make the tourney.

Just saying it is way too early to judge the rankings based on 5-7 games in the non-conference.

I assume this comment is meant to be satirical. Impossible for more than one of these teams to finish the season undefeated, for they will give each other losses when they play each other twice.

RenoZag
01-01-2019, 10:16 AM
LINK: https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

1. Duke
2. Virginia
3. Michigan
4. Houston
5. Texas Tech
6. Gonzaga
7. Tennessee
8. NC State
9. Michigan State
10. Nebraska
11. Nevada
12. Kentucky
13. Wisconsin
14. Marquette
15. Kansas
16. Virginia Tech
17. UNC
18. Oklahoma
19. Mississippi State
20. Indiana
21. Ohio State
22. Auburn
23. Buffalo
24. Florida State
25. Cincinnati

WCC

40 - USF
64 - SMC
80 - USD
113 - LMU
114 - BYU
170 - UOP
220 - PEP
231 - SCU
285 - UP

Also:
NITTY-GRITTY REPORT ( Shows Quadrant Record ): https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/Stats%20Library/NET%20Nitty%20Gritty%20-%20Games%20through%20December%2031,%202018.pdf

Zagceo
01-01-2019, 11:19 AM
Thanks Reno

Nevada is interesting @ 11

Sarenyon
01-01-2019, 11:20 AM
Looks like the new scheme is starting to take shape

Bogozags
01-01-2019, 12:30 PM
Under this system, I think two things will happen...depending on "IF's"

USF will make the dance if they win all their conference games and only have 3-loses to GU

Duke and TTech will be penalized for not playing any preseason road games, which will affect their tournament seeding...



Nevada has won all three of their road games and they should be higher ranked IMO...

RenoZag
01-01-2019, 12:46 PM
As long as Coach K is leading the Blue Devils, they will never be penalized for anything. . .

MontanaCoyote
01-01-2019, 01:17 PM
As long as Coach K is leading the Blue Devils, they will never be penalized for anything. . .

You got that right!

Kemo 1966
01-01-2019, 02:54 PM
LINK: https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

1. Duke
2. Virginia
3. Michigan
4. Houston
5. Texas Tech
6. Gonzaga
7. Tennessee
8. NC State
9. Michigan State
10. Nebraska
11. Nevada
12. Kentucky
13. Wisconsin
14. Marquette
15. Kansas
16. Virginia Tech
17. UNC
18. Oklahoma
19. Mississippi State
20. Indiana
21. Ohio State
22. Auburn
23. Buffalo
24. Florida State
25. Cincinnati

WCC

40 - USF
64 - SMC
80 - USD
113 - LMU
114 - BYU
170 - UOP
220 - PEP
231 - SCU
285 - UP

Also:
NITTY-GRITTY REPORT ( Shows Quadrant Record ): https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/Stats%20Library/NET%20Nitty%20Gritty%20-%20Games%20through%20December%2031,%202018.pdf

THE NCAA 'MAGNOLIA GARDEN CLUB OF NCAA COMMITTEE" has indeed, out-witted itself, or are they UP TO THEIR OLD TRICKS?

Notice UOP @ #170 in the 12/31 poll. They were #166 in the prior poll. UC-Irving was #109 in the prior poll. They moved UP to #107....... hmmmm

who actually won the 12/29 game??????????

Outraged
01-02-2019, 12:05 AM
I can't really argue having Zags at #5 with no non-neutral road games yet. Sample size will definitely tell whether this system sucks as much as some are frothing about. Glad we have the AP and Coaches polls to keep things in better perspective. I personally don't give a rip about seeding at the Dance. The NCAA is always going to screw with that - that's, IMHO, one of the many reasons the Dance is so entertaining for college bb fans :)

The WCC really benefits from this over the RPI.

Zagceo
01-07-2019, 11:41 AM
from 8 to 29

that seems about right imo

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

RenoZag
01-09-2019, 09:29 PM
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2019/conference/West-Coast

WCC Conference NET ranking is linked above

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2019/team-net-sheet?team=Gonzaga

Gonzaga's NET team sheet is linked above.

webspinnre
01-09-2019, 09:45 PM
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2019/conference/West-Coast

WCC Conference NET ranking is linked above

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2019/team-net-sheet?team=Gonzaga

Gonzaga's NET team sheet is linked above.

The thing I like there is that other than Portland, at a horrendously awful 304, every other WCC team is above 200, and if USD can move up just a bit we'll have 4 in the top 100. That's progress.

RenoZag
01-12-2019, 05:47 PM
Over at "The Athletic," long-time basketball scribe Eamonn Brennan did some nice work comparing the NET to KenPom to the old RPI:

LINK: https://theathletic.com/762353/2019/01/11/after-a-crazy-debut-the-ncaas-rpi-replacement-is-settling-in-nicely/

From the linked story:


Credit where it’s due: Even in retirement, the RPI hasn’t slowed down one bit. Dude. Temple? At No. 15?! Even after Wednesday’s tight home win over Houston, the Owls barely crack the KenPom top 70. They’re 44th in NET. Here, they’re two spots above Gonzaga. Gonzaga! Oh, RPI. Shine on, you crazy diamond.

You laugh, but this was how it used to be. Every year, the RPI would spit up at least a few truly strange aberrations. Sometimes teams would game their schedules perfectly; sometimes whole leagues were in on the act; sometimes things were just funky. No matter. If the committee took it seriously, the rest of the college hoops ecosystem had to follow suit.

As of the article's publication ( 1/11/19 ) Gonzaga shows up here:

KenPom.com #4
NET Ranking: #6
RPI: #17

Zagceo
01-13-2019, 01:49 PM
scoring differential matters up to 10 points... DUNK ON CLARKE


The NCAA Evaluation Tool, or NET, will be the new barometer for the committee, and it will include game results, strength of schedule, game location, scoring margin (capping at 10 points per game), and net offensive and defensive efficiency.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

Zagceo
01-13-2019, 02:47 PM
is NET one ingredient or only ingredient in creating rankings for tourney?

if one what are the others?

webspinnre
01-13-2019, 04:19 PM
is NET one ingredient or only ingredient in creating rankings for tourney?

if one what are the others?

It's replacing RPI, I believe. They can still use Kenpom, Sagarin, and the others.

Outraged
01-13-2019, 04:38 PM
The thing I like there is that other than Portland, at a horrendously awful 304, every other WCC team is above 200, and if USD can move up just a bit we'll have 4 in the top 100. That's progress.

I think we look pretty good on a Net Quadrant system. Anything from 76 on down is quadrant 1 any team under 152 is quadrant two. I think we will have only one quadrant 4 team...Portland and I believe we play them once. The WCC should have three or four teams as quadrant 1. We may equal exceed the PAC 12 in that regard. Quadrant one wins is a key component on selection day. I am liking the net over RPI which holds us in a much dimmer light.

Zagceo
01-15-2019, 05:01 PM
Zags flat @ 6

USF stays @ 43 after loss

Duke drops to 4

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

Zagceo
01-18-2019, 09:43 AM
dropped a spot

USF #48

Nevada is #23

these rankings feel more accurate than AP imo

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

Radbooks
01-18-2019, 07:39 PM
There was an article about the University of Buffalo and the NET that I thought was interesting and applies to us (and all teams) at the end of games. It's from The Buffalo News (https://buffalonews.com/2019/01/17/ub-basketball-net-rankings-efficiency-ncaa-tournament-nate-oats-2019/).


In the waning moments of the University at Buffalo men’s basketball team’s 88-64 win against Miami (Ohio) on Jan. 12, fourth-year coach Nate Oats asked officials to review of an out-of-bounds call that he believed should have given possession to the Bulls.

Even with his team leading by more than 20 points, Oats knew his quibble could have implications. If the ball belonged to the Bulls, they needed to make the most of that possession.

“I told the referees, ‘With the new NET, our efficiency is a big deal,’ ” said Oats, whose team hosts Eastern Michigan at 7 p.m. Friday at Alumni Arena. “We can’t just throw the last two minutes away. We’ve done that in the past, where we’re up and it should have been a 30-point win, and it ends up going from 22 to 24 to 16 rather than up to 30.

“That’s a big deal. Your efficiency should be one thing and it ends up another. People don’t realize it in the last two (minutes).”

RenoZag
01-18-2019, 08:00 PM
According to the NCAA, (and as CEO pointed out above) the scoring margin is capped at 10 points per game. . .so winning by twenty versus 15 shouldn't make a difference.


The NET has five components. The dominant one is the Team Value Index, which is based on game results and factors the result, the game location and outcome. The other components are net efficiency (offensive efficiency minus defensive efficiency), winning percentage, adjusted winning percentage and scoring margin (capped at 10 points per contest).

Source: https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-10-19/how-field-68-teams-picked-march-madness

Andy Katz covered the NET ( and other metrics the committee will use ) in this article:

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-08-22/net-rankings-what-know-about-college-basketballs-new-tool


“This will have the components of all the metrics,’’ said Gonzaga coach Mark Few, one of the coaches from the National Association of Basketball Coaches who was a consultant on the project.

“This will prevent the outliers,” Few said. “There were teams and leagues that were able to trick the RPI, either intentionally or unintentionally. We have all the technology and analytics, and it was silly not to use it.”

Few said he wanted to see a legitimate reward for going on the road, something that had been done with the quad system last season where there was more of an emphasis on road wins than home wins. He was pleased to see the importance put on the analytics of offensive and defensive efficiency.

jayray
01-18-2019, 08:11 PM
According to the NCAA, the scoring margin is capped at 10 points per game. . .so winning by twenty versus 15 shouldn't make a difference. . .



Source: https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-10-19/how-field-68-teams-picked-march-madness

I think it was the offensive efficiency that was the concern, not margin of victory.

RenoZag
01-18-2019, 08:17 PM
I think it was the offensive efficiency that was the concern, not margin of victory.

You are correct. . .too many hours at work this week have my gray matter running on fumes tonight. . .

Radbooks
01-18-2019, 08:59 PM
You are correct. . .too many hours at work this week have my gray matter running on fumes tonight. . .

That's okay... totally understand that! Yes, it wasn't the margin that I was speaking about, but that efficiency at the end of games adds to the overall efficiency of the game.

Zagceo
01-20-2019, 11:31 AM
santa Clara is #207

Portland #313

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

asoc
01-20-2019, 02:17 PM
santa Clara is #207

Portland #313

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings
Through Games JAN. 19, 2019
That has Santa Clara as 186 and Portland as 318

zagssuperfan
01-20-2019, 04:41 PM
Through Games JAN. 19, 2019
That has Santa Clara as 186 and Portland as 318

More importantly, we are up to #3. Seems weird that we passed Tennessee.

sittingon50
01-20-2019, 04:55 PM
More importantly, we are up to #3. Seems weird that we passed Tennessee.

Proof positive that a win over Portland on the road is better than beating Alabama @ home!!:)

Outraged
01-21-2019, 12:23 PM
The WCC has three top fifty teams and one more may join the party. Portland is the worst ranked team 300+. We only play them once so we already have taken the biggest hit.

zagzilla
01-21-2019, 12:39 PM
Also interesting that UVA remains #1 after a road loss to #2 Duke (who also lost to #47 Syracuse earlier last week).

Still trying figure out the NET rankings mechanics.

ZZ

White lightning
01-21-2019, 06:02 PM
More importantly, we are up to #3. Seems weird that we passed Tennessee.Its probably because 1 of Tennessee's victory is a non division 1 team and we have more games played. I believe this ranking will be confusing up until all the games are played. When some teams have more games played it sways the results.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Outraged
01-21-2019, 07:20 PM
Its probably because 1 of Tennessee's victory is a non division 1 team and we have more games played. I believe this ranking will be confusing up until all the games are played. When some teams have more games played it sways the results.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

It also due their opponents games during the. Sometimes they all win while you loose.

zagzilla
01-22-2019, 07:07 PM
GU drops to #4 today. Michigan St rises to #3

ZZ

White lightning
01-22-2019, 07:36 PM
Same top 6 as Ken Pom.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

MDABE80
01-22-2019, 09:50 PM
Restore the eye test. ��

Zagger
01-23-2019, 06:36 AM
Restore the eye test. ��

My 'eye test' on how the Zags are faring at full roster strength will be against BYU in Provo next week. There's no game this coming Saturday. That leaves the Zags with a week to prepare/simmer for a sauteing of BYU. Methinks that game will be a good indicator of both on how well Zag D has improved and how the Zags are meshing as a team. Should the Zags put on an efficient show in Provo it could precipitate into a nice NET ranking move.

bartruff1
01-23-2019, 06:54 AM
Maybe...but the Gails annihilated BYU in Moraga ...as did the Dons at War Memorial ….. but they are tougher at home.... BYU's defense is not good..

CDC84
01-23-2019, 04:36 PM
There will be 21,000 Zag haters in the audience, booing every single foul call. It's still one of the toughest arenas in the nation to play at when at full capacity against a top 5 team. I mean, it is loud and very intimidating. The building itself is kind of built like the Pit at UNM where it is dug deep into the ground.

Zagceo
01-23-2019, 07:12 PM
1
1
Virginia
ACC
17-1
4-1
3-0
10-0
0-0


2
2
Duke
ACC
16-2
3-0
4-1
9-1
0-0


3
3
Michigan St.
Big Ten
17-2
5-1
2-1
10-0
0-0


4
5
Tennessee
SEC
16-1
3-0
2-1
10-0
1-0


5
4
Gonzaga
WCC
18-2
3-1
3-1
12-0
0-0


6
6
Michigan
Big Ten
18-1
3-1
2-0
13-0
0-0

Zagceo
01-24-2019, 10:21 AM
1
1
Virginia
ACC
17-1
4-1
3-0
10-0
0-0


2
2
Duke
ACC
16-2
3-0
4-1
9-1
0-0


3
3
Michigan St.
Big Ten
17-2
5-1
2-1
10-0
0-0


4
5
Gonzaga
WCC
18-2
3-1
3-1
12-0
0-0


5
4
Tennessee
SEC
17-1
4-0
2-1
10-0
1-0

Zagceo
01-24-2019, 01:56 PM
Tennessee wins @ Vandy and drops from 4th to 5th and Zags move up while idle....lotta magic sauce

MontanaCoyote
01-24-2019, 02:47 PM
[QUOTE=Zagceo;1426452]Tennessee wins @ Vandy and drops from 4th to 5th and Zags move up while idle....lotta magic sauce[/QUOTE

So we win tonight and drop back to 5?

MDABE80
01-24-2019, 04:21 PM
Nate’s correct. This is just stupid. I ntried to model it with their top 10 teams. Nothing fit. This is just possible to have faith in!!
From Twitter:


It will be fun to check in on this ranking system frequently through the season. https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

zagssuperfan
01-26-2019, 08:11 AM
We moved up from 4 to 2 with that pounding of SC. It will be very interesting to see how much the tournament seeding matches up with the NET rankings. If they are heavily used, and a win like that can make that big of a difference, I think we will start to see a lot more teams running up the score in the future.

Zagceo
01-26-2019, 08:20 AM
1
1
Virginia
ACC
17-1
4-1
3-0
10-0
0-0


2
4
Gonzaga
WCC
19-2
4-1
3-1
12-0
0-0


3
3
Michigan St.
Big Ten
18-2
6-1
2-1
10-0
0-0


4
2
Duke
ACC
16-2
3-0
4-1
9-1
0-0


5
5
Tennessee
SEC
17-1
4-0
2-1
10-0
1-0


https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

MontanaCoyote
01-26-2019, 08:29 AM
Nate’s correct. This is just stupid. I ntried to model it with their top 10 teams. Nothing fit. This is just possible to have faith in!!

No analytics here, just doesn’t pass the smell test. No idea why. It just doesn’t.

Sarenyon
01-26-2019, 09:09 AM
f they are heavily used, and a win like that can make that big of a difference, I think we will start to see a lot more teams running up the score in the future.

Nope, that has nothing to do with it beyond the first 10 points... point def is capped at 10. Biggest support was that we won an away game. Probably the biggest weight in there. Also, there are some RPIisms left over about how well your opponents (your overall SOS) did.

DixieZag
01-26-2019, 09:10 AM
There will be 21,000 Zag haters in the audience, booing every single foul call. It's still one of the toughest arenas in the nation to play at when at full capacity against a top 5 team. I mean, it is loud and very intimidating. The building itself is kind of built like the Pit at UNM where it is dug deep into the ground.

Good observation.

Yes, they are quite similar. BYU is bigger, maybe steeper, too.

One other thing making these venues tough, both are at significant altitude. BYU at 4,500 ft according to Siri, and UNM at 5300 ft.

bartruff1
01-26-2019, 09:58 AM
No analytics here, just doesn’t pass the smell test. No idea why. It just doesn’t.

I like it...those ratings look about right to me...in any case I suspect it is just a algorithm subject to the "garbage in garbage out" rule...... a result of assigning values, especially adjusted values….. this is just another tool..... people will use their judgement to make the actual rankings and seeding....this looks like a #1 seed in the West For Gonzaga.

NotoriousZ
01-26-2019, 10:42 AM
I like it...those ratings look about right to me...in any case I suspect it is just a algorithm subject to the "garbage in garbage out" rule...... a result of assigning values, especially adjusted values….. this is just another tool..... people will use their judgement to make the actual rankings and seeding....this looks like a #1 seed in the West For Gonzaga.
That’s the million dollar question, how much weight will the net rankings have with the committee? I suspect they will go with quadrant 1 wins whenever they want to hose the small schools outside the power conferences.

Edit: not talking about Gonzaga, I believe we’re “in the club” now. Let’s see what happens with USF (assuming they don’t beat us and have no bad losses).

RenoZag
01-27-2019, 06:47 AM
If you scroll to the bottom of the NET chart ( See the link in the OP ), there's a hyperlink called "ARCHIVE / TEAM SHEETS" Under the heading "NCAA RPI Query Results", you can pull up a pdf of the NCAA's official Nitty Gritty Report, which includes Quadrant W-L records.

The Team Sheets query breaks out past performance and upcoming games by quadrant:

https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/Stats%20Library/NET%20Team%20Sheets%20-%20Games%20through%20January%2024,%202016.pdf

The Zags are on page 2 of the above linked PDF. . .In the top margin of the Team Sheet, the NET, KPI, SOR, BPI, KENPOM, and SAGARIN rankings are also included

Through games of 1/25/19, Zags are #2 on the Nitty Gritty Report, FWIW

willandi
01-27-2019, 06:50 AM
That’s the million dollar question, how much weight will the net rankings have with the committee? I suspect they will go with quadrant 1 wins whenever they want to hose the small schools outside the power conferences.

Edit: not talking about Gonzaga, I believe we’re “in the club” now. Let’s see what happens with USF (assuming they don’t beat us and have no bad losses).

Well, they lost to San Diego yesterday...so that may be the bad loss in the eyes of the committee.

GoZags
01-27-2019, 07:26 AM
Well, they lost to San Diego yesterday...so that may be the bad loss in the eyes of the committee.


No way is a Quadrant 2 loss to USD considered “bad” by anybody, including “the committee “

Markburn1
01-27-2019, 08:30 AM
No way is a Quadrant 2 loss to USD considered “bad” by anybody, including “the committee “

The UCSB loss was the biggest blow. The problem for USF is they have zero signature wins. Each loss they take further diminishes their chances in a bigger way than teams that have a couple wins in Quadrant one or even Quadrant two. I believe their best win is a Q2 against St.Mary's. Their "best" performances are still losses to Buffalo and Gonzaga.

GoZags
01-27-2019, 08:47 AM
The UCSB loss was the biggest blow. The problem for USF is they have zero signature wins. Each loss they take further diminishes their chances in a bigger way than teams that have a couple wins in Quadrant one or even Quadrant two. I believe their best win is a Q2 against St.Mary's. Their "best" performances are still losses to Buffalo and Gonzaga.

I agree MB1. I believe USF’s dance possibilities comes down to this Saturday when they have a shot at a Q1 win at SMC. They “should” have a second chance at a Q1 win in the WCC semi final. I know, I know. I don’t mean to sound cocky or take things for granted but I just don’t see these guys beating Gonzaga now that the “focus” is BACK for GU.

willandi
01-27-2019, 09:05 AM
I agree MB1. I believe USF’s dance possibilities comes down to this Saturday when they have a shot at a Q1 win at SMC. They “should” have a second chance at a Q1 win in the WCC semi final. I know, I know. I don’t mean to sound cocky or take things for granted but I just don’t see these guys beating Gonzaga now that the “focus” is BACK for GU.

I am not that savvy to the quadrant stuff, but what if USF beats SMC, but SMC continues to lose games? Won't SMC drop down and potentailly drop out of the quadrant 2?

Zagceo
01-27-2019, 09:06 AM
Zags losing a WCC game has same odds as 1 seed losing to 16

bartruff1
01-27-2019, 09:36 AM
Zags losing a WCC game has same odds as 1 seed losing to 16

about 140-1

hondo
01-27-2019, 10:28 AM
Those 16 seeded teams don't play on their home court and they have not had this game date circled on their calendar for months. Also they are not totally familiar with their opponent. In league play anything can happen and it often does.

GoZags
01-27-2019, 11:44 AM
Those 16 seeded teams don't play on their home court and they have not had this game date circled on their calendar for months. Also they are not totally familiar with their opponent. In league play anything can happen and it often does.

Hondo has been around the block once or twice. I'm heeding his "take" on this.

gonzagafan62
01-27-2019, 11:49 AM
Zags losing a WCC game has same odds as 1 seed losing to 16

No lol not even close.

Zagceo
01-27-2019, 01:42 PM
No lol not even close.

ESPN matchup predictor favors Zags.. not even close. )

BYU 91%
USD 98
USF 95
SMC 94
LMU 94
USD 90
PEP 99
BYU 97
SMC 78

bartruff1
01-27-2019, 02:07 PM
Those 16 seeded teams don't play on their home court and they have not had this game date circled on their calendar for months. Also they are not totally familiar with their opponent. In league play anything can happen and it often does.

At least the 16 seeds are good enough to make the Tournament....

Grand Valley Zag
01-28-2019, 10:29 AM
ESPN matchup predictor favors Zags.. not even close. )

BYU 91%
USD 98
USF 95
SMC 94
LMU 94
USD 90
PEP 99
BYU 97
SMC 78

Based on those odds we only have a 51% chance of sweeping the remainder of the regular season. I think.

CDC84
01-28-2019, 10:39 AM
The UCSB loss was the biggest blow. The problem for USF is they have zero signature wins. Each loss they take further diminishes their chances in a bigger way than teams that have a couple wins in Quadrant one or even Quadrant two. I believe their best win is a Q2 against St.Mary's. Their "best" performances are still losses to Buffalo and Gonzaga.

If they don't get in, I am going to feel for their fans because it's not like they were blown out by 20 pts. in any of their defeats. Even the Gonzaga point margin is deceiving. They are maybe 5 or 6 plays from being unbeaten.

The UCSB loss is a killer because the Gauchos are actually a decent team (15-4), and as people on the west coast know, the Thunderdome is one of the toughest arenas to play at on the west coast. It's hard to pull a win out of that joint. Losing there is not what I would call a bad loss.

But as you say Markburn1, when you lack the monster wins, you have to rely on having a nearly flawless record. A record with a ton of wins. I think USF might have been able to get in with their only losses being respectable losses to Gonzaga.

CDC84
01-28-2019, 10:46 AM
FWIW - Lunardi has GU as a #2 in the west with Tennessee as the #1.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

I will tell you this......no one wants to play Wofford if they get in. They are a legit at large candidate. I think they are number one in the nation in three point shooting. They are at 39.6% as a team. Fletcher Magee is an outstanding senior guard. That #11 seed represents the true strength of their team.

Zagceo
01-28-2019, 10:52 AM
from ESPN interesting tournament chart



RK
TEAM
SEED (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/dir/asc/view/tournament/sort/projectedtournamentseed)
REGION
RD OF 32 (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/dir/desc/view/tournament/sort/chanceroundof32)
SWEET 16 (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/dir/desc/view/tournament/sort/chancesweet16)
ELITE 8 (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/dir/desc/view/tournament/sort/chanceelite8)
FINAL FOUR (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/dir/desc/view/tournament/sort/chancefinal4)
CHAMP GM (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/dir/desc/view/tournament/sort/chancechampgame)
TITLE WIN (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/dir/asc/view/tournament/sort/chancencaachampion)


1
Virginia (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/258/virginia-cavaliers)
1
--
98.1%
90.6%
78.2%
59.4%
43.5%
31.8%


2
Duke (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/150/duke-blue-devils)
1
--
95.3%
84.2%
67.3%
45.7%
27.9%
16.0%


3
Gonzaga (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs)
2
--
96.3%
84.7%
66.8%
43.6%
27.5%
15.4%


4
Michigan State (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/127/michigan-state-spartans)
1
--
95.6%
81.3%
62.5%
38.7%
20.8%
10.3%


5
Tennessee (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2633/tennessee-volunteers)
2
--
92.9%
74.5%
51.6%
27.6%
11.9%
4.8%


6
Virginia Tech (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/259/virginia-tech-hokies)
4
--
87.8%
68.1%
41.5%
20.3%
9.2%
3.2%


7
North Carolina (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/153/north-carolina-tar-heels)
3
--
85.9%
64.6%
38.4%
17.8%
7.8%
2.8%


8
Michigan (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/130/michigan-wolverines)
1
--
83.9%
61.5%
34.4%
15.6%
6.3%
2.3%


9
Purdue (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2509/purdue-boilermakers)
4
--
84.6%
59.4%
30.4%
13.1%
5.4%
1.7%


10
Kentucky (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/96/kentucky-wildcats)
2
--
80.3%
54.2%
26.5%
10.8%
4.2%
1.5%



http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/view/tournament

Zagceo
01-28-2019, 10:58 AM
NET Rankings https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

Michigan State 3 to 6



1
1
Virginia
ACC
18-1
5-1
3-0
10-0
0-0


2
2
Gonzaga
WCC
19-2
4-1
3-1
12-0
0-0


3
4
Duke
ACC
17-2
3-0
4-1
10-1
0-0


4
5
Michigan
Big Ten
19-1
4-1
2-0
13-0
0-0


5
6
Tennessee
SEC
18-1
4-0
2-1
11-0
1-0


6
3
Michigan St.
Big Ten
18-3
6-2
2-1
10-0
0-0


7
8
Houston
AAC
20-1
5-1
0-0
15-0
0-0


8
7
Kentucky
SEC
16-3
3-1
1-2
12-0
0-0


9
9
North Carolina
ACC
15-4
5-1
1-2
9-1
0-0


10
10
Virginia Tech
ACC
16-3
1-3
4-0
11-0
0-0

willandi
01-28-2019, 06:20 PM
from ESPN interesting tournament chart



RK
TEAM
SEED (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/dir/asc/view/tournament/sort/projectedtournamentseed)
REGION
RD OF 32 (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/dir/desc/view/tournament/sort/chanceroundof32)
SWEET 16 (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/dir/desc/view/tournament/sort/chancesweet16)
ELITE 8 (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/dir/desc/view/tournament/sort/chanceelite8)
FINAL FOUR (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/dir/desc/view/tournament/sort/chancefinal4)
CHAMP GM (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/dir/desc/view/tournament/sort/chancechampgame)
TITLE WIN (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/dir/asc/view/tournament/sort/chancencaachampion)


1
Virginia (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/258/virginia-cavaliers)
1
--
98.1%
90.6%
78.2%
59.4%
43.5%
31.8%


2
Duke (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/150/duke-blue-devils)
1
--
95.3%
84.2%
67.3%
45.7%
27.9%
16.0%


3
Gonzaga (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2250/gonzaga-bulldogs)
2
--
96.3%
84.7%
66.8%
43.6%
27.5%
15.4%


4
Michigan State (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/127/michigan-state-spartans)
1
--
95.6%
81.3%
62.5%
38.7%
20.8%
10.3%


5
Tennessee (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2633/tennessee-volunteers)
2
--
92.9%
74.5%
51.6%
27.6%
11.9%
4.8%


6
Virginia Tech (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/259/virginia-tech-hokies)
4
--
87.8%
68.1%
41.5%
20.3%
9.2%
3.2%


7
North Carolina (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/153/north-carolina-tar-heels)
3
--
85.9%
64.6%
38.4%
17.8%
7.8%
2.8%


8
Michigan (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/130/michigan-wolverines)
1
--
83.9%
61.5%
34.4%
15.6%
6.3%
2.3%


9
Purdue (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2509/purdue-boilermakers)
4
--
84.6%
59.4%
30.4%
13.1%
5.4%
1.7%


10
Kentucky (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/96/kentucky-wildcats)
2
--
80.3%
54.2%
26.5%
10.8%
4.2%
1.5%



http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi/_/view/tournament


NET Rankings https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

Michigan State 3 to 6



1
1
Virginia
ACC
18-1
5-1
3-0
10-0
0-0


2
2
Gonzaga
WCC
19-2
4-1
3-1
12-0
0-0


3
4
Duke
ACC
17-2
3-0
4-1
10-1
0-0


4
5
Michigan
Big Ten
19-1
4-1
2-0
13-0
0-0


5
6
Tennessee
SEC
18-1
4-0
2-1
11-0
1-0


6
3
Michigan St.
Big Ten
18-3
6-2
2-1
10-0
0-0


7
8
Houston
AAC
20-1
5-1
0-0
15-0
0-0


8
7
Kentucky
SEC
16-3
3-1
1-2
12-0
0-0


9
9
North Carolina
ACC
15-4
5-1
1-2
9-1
0-0


10
10
Virginia Tech
ACC
16-3
1-3
4-0
11-0
0-0



How can Gonzaga be above Mich St on both those charts, and be seeded behind them?

RenoZag
02-14-2019, 11:18 PM
Zags were ranked # 1 through Feb 13 games. . .

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

RenoZag
02-19-2019, 08:11 AM
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

Through 2/18/19 games:

1. Duke
2. Gonzaga
3. Virginia
4. Houston
5. Kentucky
6. Tenn
7. Mich State
8. Mich
9. UNC
10. TX Tech
11. UNR
12. Purdue

Others of Note:

18. Kansas
31. Washington
47. SMC
52. USF
63. Creighton
75. BYU
77. Illinois
86. TX A&M
88. AZ

Outraged
02-19-2019, 01:39 PM
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

Through 2/18/19 games:

1. Duke
2. Gonzaga
3. Virginia
4. Houston
5. Kentucky
6. Tenn
7. Mich State
8. Mich
9. UNC
10. TX Tech
11. UNR
12. Purdue

Others of Note:

18. Kansas
31. Washington
47. SMC
52. USF
63. Creighton
75. BYU
86. TX A&M
88. AZ

Creighton is tier 1 and BYU is now tier 1. Washington will be tier 1. So there are five just in this group when you throw in USF and Saint Mary's.

ZagsObserver
02-19-2019, 02:24 PM
Creighton is tier 1 and BYU is now tier 1. Washington will be tier 1. So there are five just in this group when you throw in USF and Saint Mary's.

You forgot Illinois.

LTownZag
02-19-2019, 02:30 PM
Creighton is tier 1 and BYU is now tier 1. Washington will be tier 1. So there are five just in this group when you throw in USF and Saint Mary's.


UW (#31) was a home game for GU. So it will only be a quadrant 1 win if UW climbs into the top 30. It's possible.

BYU is 75 and a road win must be against the top 75, so if BYU doesn't drop a single spot that road win (not our home win) would be a Q1 win.

I wouldn't bet the farm on either outcome. In BYU's case, their rating will also be after playing us 1 or 2 more times.

GoZags
02-20-2019, 10:17 AM
Washington slid back to #30 in NET rankings, so the GU home win is now Q1.
BYU climbed up to #75, so the GU road win is now Q1.

USF is #51 ... they'd need to be Top 50 for a win in Vegas to be Q1

SMC NEEDS to stay in the Top 50 (#47 now) for a Vegas win to be Q1

It's my desire to avoid BYU in Vegas as there is no hope a win would be Q1 ... I'm hoping for things to end up where our games would be against the Dons and the Gaels ... and I'd like those 3 (BYU/SMC/USF) to win as much as possible.

https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/Stats%20Library/NET%20Team%20Sheets%20-%20Games%20through%20Feb.%2019,%202019.pdf

Note .. will merge with NET thread later.

zagdontzig
02-20-2019, 10:46 AM
Washington slid back to #30 in NET rankings, so the GU home win is now Q1.
BYU climbed up to #75, so the GU road win is now Q1.

USF is #51 ... they'd need to be Top 50 for a win in Vegas to be Q1

SMC NEEDS to stay in the Top 50 (#47 now) for a Vegas win to be Q1

It's my desire to avoid BYU in Vegas as there is no hope a win would be Q1 ... I'm hoping for things to end up where our games would be against the Dons and the Gaels ... and I'd like those 3 (BYU/SMC/USF) to win as much as possible.

https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/Stats%20Library/NET%20Team%20Sheets%20-%20Games%20through%20Feb.%2019,%202019.pdf

Note .. will merge with NET thread later.

Interesting. I thought the quadrant status of the game is firm as of the date the game is played.

GoZags
02-20-2019, 10:51 AM
Interesting. I thought the quadrant status of the game is firm as of the date the game is played.

No ... it's fluid as evidenced by this morning's official NCAA "Team Sheets" (linked in the OP).

LTownZag
02-20-2019, 10:59 AM
Interesting. I thought the quadrant status of the game is firm as of the date the game is played.

The only NET rating that matters is the final one at the end of the season, prior to the NCAA tournament. I just learned this as well. It makes sense but has major problems.

It's a knock against teams who win big games early against squads that drop off due to injuries, coach/ncaa issues, infighting, etc, and an unearned boost to those who beat nosediving/shorthanded teams late in a season.

Remember our double OT loss last year to a Florida team that was ranked top-10 and seemed destined for top-5? Many called it the best game of the season and we were a single Silas Melson free throw away from winning it. But for a variety of reasons Florida imploded later in the year and I believe they ended up too high in NET for it to have counted as a Q1 loss.

Beating Kansas or MSU early this year would have been very very good wins. But if either team struggles badly enough this month, those early wins might not be worth much. Another couple examples (I think) would be our neutral and away wins VS Arizona and Creighton. Both have suffered some injuries and major momentum skids. AZ has had the perfect storm of injuries, NCAA violation issues, and infighting. I think when we played both those squads, they were talented and rolling as top 40. Creighton was receiving votes for the top25 at the time.

JPtheBeasta
02-20-2019, 11:30 AM
Is it possible to knock someone out of Q1 status by beating them?

LTownZag
02-20-2019, 12:04 PM
yes. HAve to play SMC and BYU again in regular season. Assuming we win those games, both teams will be correspondingly knocked down a bit in the NET so if we play them again in Vegas and win again, it would potentially knock them down even further, potentially lowering the value of all 3 wins.

tempe85
02-20-2019, 12:12 PM
Washington slid back to #30 in NET rankings, so the GU home win is now Q1.
BYU climbed up to #75, so the GU road win is now Q1.

USF is #51 ... they'd need to be Top 50 for a win in Vegas to be Q1

SMC NEEDS to stay in the Top 50 (#47 now) for a Vegas win to be Q1

It's my desire to avoid BYU in Vegas as there is no hope a win would be Q1 ... I'm hoping for things to end up where our games would be against the Dons and the Gaels ... and I'd like those 3 (BYU/SMC/USF) to win as much as possible.

https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/Stats%20Library/NET%20Team%20Sheets%20-%20Games%20through%20Feb.%2019,%202019.pdf

Note .. will merge with NET thread later.


Ironically, blowing out both USF and SMC actually 'hurt' GU in terms of Q1 wins since the blowouts drop both of those teams in NET rankings. If Gonzaga had won those games by a few points they would both be higher in NET and it would be a much safer bet that they'd both remain Q1. Odd how it works out that way.

zagssuperfan
02-20-2019, 12:23 PM
Washington slid back to #30 in NET rankings, so the GU home win is now Q1.
BYU climbed up to #75, so the GU road win is now Q1.

USF is #51 ... they'd need to be Top 50 for a win in Vegas to be Q1

SMC NEEDS to stay in the Top 50 (#47 now) for a Vegas win to be Q1

It's my desire to avoid BYU in Vegas as there is no hope a win would be Q1 ... I'm hoping for things to end up where our games would be against the Dons and the Gaels ... and I'd like those 3 (BYU/SMC/USF) to win as much as possible.

https://extra.ncaa.org/solutions/rpi/Stats%20Library/NET%20Team%20Sheets%20-%20Games%20through%20Feb.%2019,%202019.pdf

Note .. will merge with NET thread later.

One thing that jumps out at me is the number of quad 4 games that we've played compared to Duke. I wonder if that is something that the committee looks at at all. I know we need a few warm up games at the beginning of the year, but it would be nice if a few more of those were quad 3 or even 2.

GoZags
02-20-2019, 12:25 PM
Ironically, blowing out both USF and SMC actually 'hurt' GU in terms of Q1 wins since the blowouts drop both of those teams in NET rankings. If Gonzaga had won those games by a few points they would both be higher in NET and it would be a much safer bet that they'd both remain Q1. Odd how it works out that way.

Not sure that's the case ... the Zags haven't played SMC on the road yet (and SMC will still be solid Top 75 ... i.e a chance for another Q1 win). USF's road win was and will always be Q1 (Top 75) but there's no chance of USF getting to the Top 30 for the GU home game to be reclassified as Q1. As I said in the OP ... a key is for USF and SMC to win as much as possible to be Top 50 at the end of the WCC tourney (along with BYU ... need them to stay Top 75)

LTownZag
02-21-2019, 10:23 AM
BYU drops to #76 (so our road win in Provo isn't Q1)

UW holds at #30 (so our home win stays barely Q1)

USF and SMC both barely still top 50 - possible Q1 if we play them in Vegas

Let's go WCC (+ UW!)

gonstu
02-21-2019, 11:28 AM
BYU drops to #76 (so our road win in Provo isn't Q1)

UW holds at #30 (so our home win stays barely Q1)

USF and SMC both barely still top 50 - possible Q1 if we play them in Vegas

Let's go WCC (+ UW!)


Tonight:

USF @ BYU

SMC at Pacific

Who do we root for in USF/BYU game?

former1dog
02-21-2019, 01:55 PM
Tonight:

USF @ BYU

SMC at Pacific

Who do we root for in USF/BYU game?

Based on the premise that if Gonzaga wins out for the season, that they will get a #1 seed out west, I'm going with personal preference on this one. I want BYU to get beat, BADLY.

Both because I just don't really like BYU. Secondly, because I don't want BYU to be a top 2 seed, selfishly. If BYU ends up playing and getting beat in the WCC tournament before the semifinals, then I will not be surrounded by BYU fans when I attend the tournament in Vegas. BYU losing tonight helps the chances of that for me!

gonstu
02-21-2019, 02:25 PM
I always root against BYU. But in this case, if BYU loses tonight and GU wins then the conference championship is clinched outright. I kind of want to clinch outright by beating BYU on senior night in the kennel.

LTownZag
02-23-2019, 07:44 AM
BYU's loss at home to USF dropped them from 75 to 82!

Which means our win in Provo is no longer Q1, and doesn't seem likely to be. USF now 48 in the NET and SMC at 40. Our best hope for another Q1 win comes from playing SMC in the WCC tournament final. I think if we play (and beat) USF there, they'll get bumped above 50. Of course we still play (likely beat) SMC in the regular season.

I would hate to see the perfect storm where we just barely miss having several games from being Q1.

Zagceo
02-25-2019, 08:53 AM
Through Games FEB. 24, 2019

RANK
PREVIOUS
SCHOOL
CONFERENCE
RECORD
ROAD
NEUTRAL
HOME
NON DIV I


1
1
Gonzaga
WCC
27-2
7-1
3-1
17-0
0-0


2
2
Virginia
ACC
24-2
9-1
3-0
12-1
0-0


3
3
Duke
ACC
24-3
7-0
4-1
13-2
0-0


4
4
Houston
AAC
26-1
8-1
0-0
18-0
0-0


5
5
Kentucky
SEC
23-4
7-1
1-2
15-1
0-0


6
9
Michigan St.
Big Ten
23-5
8-3
2-1
13-1
0-0


7
8
Tennessee
SEC
24-3
6-2
2-1
15-0
1-0


8
6
North Carolina
ACC
22-5
9-1
1-2
12-2
0-0


9
7
Michigan
Big Ten
24-4
6-3
2-0
16-1
0-0


10
10
Texas Tech
Big 12
22-5
4-3
3-1
15-1
0-0

Zagceo
02-27-2019, 08:43 AM
Through Games FEB. 26, 2019

RANK

PREVIOUS

SCHOOL

CONFERENCE

RECORD

ROAD

NEUTRAL

HOME

NON DIV I



1
1
Gonzaga
WCC
27-2
7-1
3-1
17-0
0-0


2
2
Virginia
ACC
24-2
9-1
3-0
12-1
0-0


3
3
Duke
ACC
24-4
7-1
4-1
13-2
0-0


4
4
Houston
AAC
26-1
8-1
0-0
18-0
0-0


5
5
Kentucky
SEC
24-4
7-1
1-2
16-1
0-0


6
6
Michigan St.
Big Ten
23-5
8-3
2-1
13-1
0-0


7
7
Tennessee
SEC
24-3
6-2
2-1
15-0
1-0


8
8
North Carolina
ACC
23-5
9-1
1-2
13-2
0-0


9
9
Michigan
Big Ten
24-4
6-3
2-0
16-1
0-0


10
10
Texas Tech
Big 12
22-5
4-3
3-1
15-1
0-0

willandi
02-27-2019, 12:03 PM
Through Games FEB. 26, 2019

RANK

PREVIOUS

SCHOOL

CONFERENCE

RECORD

ROAD

NEUTRAL

HOME

NON DIV I



1
1
Gonzaga
WCC
27-2
7-1
3-1
17-0
0-0


2
2
Virginia
ACC
24-2
9-1
3-0
12-1
0-0


3
3
Duke
ACC
24-4
7-1
4-1
13-2
0-0


4
4
Houston
AAC
26-1
8-1
0-0
18-0
0-0


5
5
Kentucky
SEC
24-4
7-1
1-2
16-1
0-0


6
6
Michigan St.
Big Ten
23-5
8-3
2-1
13-1
0-0


7
7
Tennessee
SEC
24-3
6-2
2-1
15-0
1-0


8
8
North Carolina
ACC
23-5
9-1
1-2
13-2
0-0


9
9
Michigan
Big Ten
24-4
6-3
2-0
16-1
0-0


10
10
Texas Tech
Big 12
22-5
4-3
3-1
15-1
0-0




Hard to believe that Duke losing to Va Tech yesterday, did not affect them.