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soonerterp
02-18-2007, 10:04 PM
Glancing at the mocks at nbadraft.net and draftexpress.com, Raivio's name does not turn up.

ALTHOUGH plenty could happen between now and June. Not like he'd be a lottery pick or anything, but I'm actually not all that convinced that Durant will actually come out of Texas or Oden will come out of Ohio State. If they decide to stay in school (and you can throw Joakim Noah in that equation too), to me that would create a domino effect throughout the draft board that perhaps could open up opportunities for upperclassmen like Raivio who do have some skills but perhaps not benefiting from the massive hype that other players get.

So what are the chances for Raivio in the NBA, if any? In his favor, the guy can score, he's pretty fearless going into the lane among guys bigger than him. But to his detriment, his D isn't always perfect and while I don't think it should be an issue since there are guys in the league smaller than him, size might be a knock to some GMs.

Fire away.

roxdoc
02-18-2007, 10:07 PM
With all due respect to DR: slim to none

gozagswoohoo
02-18-2007, 10:09 PM
....I love Drav...but his chances are even smaller than "slim to none"

cair3
02-18-2007, 10:54 PM
i could see a team giving him workouts but not drafting him, he can shoot freethrows well enough that a team could use him just to ice games.

FuManShoes
02-18-2007, 11:21 PM
Let's put it this way: Raivio's chances of getting drafted are less than those of Durant and Oden staying in school. There is no way those two are foregoing the draft. They're guaranteed top picks. On D-rav, I think he'll have a shot at Euro ball, but he doesn't have an NBA game.

ZagNut08
02-19-2007, 05:11 AM
to quote the greatest sports announcer ever: "slim to none and slim just left town"

He has a good shot at europe though

pdxzagfan
02-19-2007, 07:34 AM
Would love to see him in the NBA, but realistically, he will probably go to Europe to continue playing ball. I'm really going to miss watching him play in a Zags uniform, though.

lothar98zag
02-19-2007, 08:42 AM
He may get a shot at an NBA training camp or summer league only to be cut at some point before the regular season (like many past Zags). Most likely he'll end up somewhere in Europe.

I can see him doing really well overseas.

CDC84
02-19-2007, 12:07 PM
Zilch. He will make tons of bread overseas - just like JP. Better get that passport ready....

D Hark 2003
02-19-2007, 12:13 PM
Derek has no chance after this year to make it, but I would say in three to five years if he plays overseas and adds some weight to become stronger and a better defender then he definitely has a chance. He looks like he needs a couple more years to grow stronger, but he definitely has the shooting skills and handles, he just needs the NBA body.

NorthoftheBorder
02-19-2007, 04:37 PM
Josh's name no longer appears on the projected draft boards for 2007 or 2008 on NBAdraft.net

I wonder if that means they think he won't enter the draft until 2009. I can't believe they don't think he will get drafted now just because of the incident.
There's a lot of current NBA players who have done a lot worse.

tom o dachi
02-19-2007, 06:34 PM
At this point, no Zag player will be drafted this year. Morrison was clearly the best player in the country last year and he wasn't even the first pick. Batista dominated on the post and he wasn't drafted. Ronny went in the second round. Stepp was the last player taken in the draft his year. The accomplishments of these players dwarf those of the current players on this years team. You can't just be good to be drafted, you have to be amazing.

ExtremeJim
02-19-2007, 08:47 PM
I can't believe they don't think he will get drafted now just because of the incident.

The reality of Josh's situation is that if he is charged with felony possession this week, he could be in the middle of a criminal trial on draft day, which is in late June. And if he is convicted of felony possession, he might be serving time in a state correctional facility when the NBA season you can't believe he won't be drafted for is supposed to commence.

Although he hasn't been charged as of tonight, I have no trouble understanding why he would have been dropped from the mock draft lists. If the prosecutor declines to charge, or charges a misdemeanor, I would expect his name to start creeping back into the mocks, but not even the NBA is going to draft anyone out of Walla Walla. Herman "The Helicopter" Knowings never got drafted, and they had 12 rounds of NBA draft back in the day he was in Attica.

NorthoftheBorder
02-19-2007, 09:05 PM
Good post ExtremeJim.

It makes you wonder how many millions Josh might have thrown away because of his "mistake in judgment".

ExtremeJim
02-19-2007, 09:32 PM
I recall with gratitude of all the wonderful memories Josh has provided us as fans, and hope he will both experience mercy from the civil authorities as well as find a suitable place to continue his basketball career, whether at another school or professionally.

Clearly, he can't return to the Gonzaga team (short of some sort of Perry Mason-like miracle ending) because of the kind of men the coaches are. I can't really see Few or Grier facing their children as adolescents when they start asking, "But, if drugs are so bad, then why did you reinstate Heytvelt back in '07," can you?

FuManShoes
02-19-2007, 10:12 PM
I can't really see Few or Grier facing their children as adolescents when they start asking, "But, if drugs are so bad, then why did you reinstate Heytvelt back in '07," can you?

Yes, I can. When the coach's kid screws up, as all kids will, will Few say, "Sorry, you had your chance and blew it. You're off the Few team for good." No, he'll show mercy as most any father would and I think Coach Few will do the same -- but not this season.

I made an argument a few days ago that Josh should be reinstated this season if the facts supported giving him a break and his teammates agreed. But it's now clear that Few has no intention of doing that, that legally it may be impossible, and that most importantly, Josh's teammates have found closure and are ready - perhaps even eager - to go on without him. But none of that, in my opinion, assures that Josh won't get a shot to make the team next year. The seniors he let down will have graduated. The coaches and teammates he betrayed will have had several months to think things over, and Josh himself will have had time to get his #### straight and atone for his mistake. It goes without saying that I don't think he's going to get jailtime. And given what limited info I've read about the case, I think he deserves another chance to be a Zag.

ExtremeJim
02-20-2007, 05:19 AM
Two things:

The parent/child relationship is a forever thing, while the college coach/player relationship is temporary, for a term of about five years, so they're not really analogous.

This particular student/athlete has already had one "another chance to be a Zag," so both the coaches and the rest of the GU community might be more hesitant to be lenient than you are hoping. Even if they decided to maintain the strength of the team at any moral cost, they will face the loss of support from some of the more conservative backers, just to maintain that of some of the more liberal. We haven't yet considered fully what a dilemna Josh has created for those who will decide, and there's time enough for that after the prosecutor's decision is announced.

Rubbadub
02-20-2007, 05:58 AM
What was his previous "another chance to be a zag"?

23dpg
02-20-2007, 07:58 AM
I love DRav, but right now his chances are:


(Dang, How do you add pictures and not just the links?)
(slim and none)

23dpg
02-21-2007, 09:50 AM
(Dang, How do you add pictures and not just the links?)

lothar98zag
02-21-2007, 10:19 AM
(assuming the photo is online)

click this icon above the text box when making a post: http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/images/editor/insertimage.gif

paste photo url into the pop-up and chick ok.

23dpg
02-21-2007, 10:23 AM
Thanks, I'll give it a shot.



paste photo url into the pop-up and chick ok.


BTW I'm a dude.

lothar98zag
02-21-2007, 10:40 AM
Thanks, I'll give it a shot.




paste photo url into the pop-up and chick ok.


BTW I'm a dude.
:D

um... "cLick ok"

soonerterp
03-07-2007, 03:15 PM
Hate to bring an old thread back from the dead, but today I began thinking ... assuming Gonzaga makes a deep NCAA run, one wonders if he raises any stock he might possess. I do remember seeing the thread earlier this week where he'd committed to attend the Portsmouth Invitational camp (per draftexpress.com).

I certainly think that Raivio deserves a shot at the NBA. As much as it would be nice to see Raivio stride up the stage at Madison Square Garden in an incredibly natty suit/tie/breast-pocket stuffer-thingy combo and shake the hand of the Jolly Fat Man (David Stern), if he's drafted at all he's probably a second rounder. If he goes undrafted, he DEFINITELY deserves a shot with a training camp invite ... I think with the right team he'd do well. I can't imagine which team that would be, though.

What would Raivio have to improve? Two words: WEIGHT ROOM. Spend lots of time there. Lots.

[BTW, if this sounds redundant its because I copied and pasted part of this from my response to a similar topic elsewhere. It's just that THIS board is easier to use and format.]

ZagPants
03-07-2007, 03:32 PM
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/130/mnicolerichieuy0.jpg
&
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9787/nuncostune2sv2.jpg

ZagMania
03-07-2007, 04:09 PM
Come on people!! This is a GU board, show your undivided and yes, even blind support for our players. They have given us so many great memories this year that we deserve to give them that at least. Therefore, I'm putting on my Gonzaga polarized shades and pitching you why Raivio could make it in the association:

1. [Why he'll be given a shot] What team couldn't use a 96% free throw shooter that can solidly handle the rock? Theres only four players in the NBA that are over 90% from the line, the highest being 92%. Raivio could step in and immediately be a contributor for a number of free throw challenged teams by icing games late.

2. [Why he can succeed] Don't give me the "He's too small" to play excuse. We all know John Stockton had a dandy career at something like 6-foot-1 and 160 pounds. Not only is Derek taller than most people think at 6'3", but I think he is deceptively stronger than most people think because his head is so small (the shaved head doesn't help). Sure, the game has changed since Stockton retired, but there are plenty of smaller guys that continue to play. Steve Blake made his way to the NBA despite having a similar body type to Raivio, and he averaged just 11.6 points his senior year at Maryland. Steve Nash, the reigning MVP, is the same height as Raivio as well. If he can sprint around for 40 minutes every GU game barely getting a breather than his body can hold up through the grind of the NBA.

3. [Why he will succeed] Did you watch the WCC Championship game? Raivio showed he can perform when its most important. Thats the same reason why I think he'll make the most out of Portsmouth camp and any other camp. Also, the continuation fouls in the NBA are rediculous. I think DR could be effective using his semi-palm street style bounce to get passed players and then use that scoop shot of his to draw contact against the bigs and get to the free throw line. In college, he can't get away with that palm so much and they call those inside body fouls less in college. Oh, and did I mention the guy can shoot it?

gamagin
03-07-2007, 04:28 PM
I think he will get a look. He likely already has a "sheet."

the NCAA's definitely would be a showcase -- especially in matchups against other NBA designees.

when the jazz drafted stockton, his coach joked that he took him because he was "catholic, he laughs at my jokes and his dad owns a bar."

But the truth is frank layden drafted him because he thought he saw something there that could be developed. Stock already had the basketball smarts and quickness. Layden was right, of course.

I think it took john 2-3 years to break in at the starting position he never relinquished, but my point here is DR, if he is fortunate enough to find a frank layden out there willing to take a chance, "might" be rewarded with a NBA caliber player.

with all the pressure and talent in the bkb world today, I don't know that that kind of coach even still exists. absent someone like that, I think DR will play somewhere else -- likely in europe as suggested.

He definitely has more ball to play. and I predict, given th chance, he will shine.

ZagDaddy
03-07-2007, 04:37 PM
I posed this question in another thread and got zero response but I thought I'd give it a go again. Does anyone else see a place in the NBA for DRav similar to the role Steve Kerr played? I see their games as being very similar and he found himself a pretty good career in the NBA. Won a championship or two as I recall too. Or would Steve Kerr also be overlooked in today's NBA?

Argentum
03-07-2007, 04:52 PM
Just out of curiosity who do most people think is the better defender: Raivio or Dickau? I remember Dan more for his offensive prowess, and it's been a few years, but does anybody know how their career steals compare for instance? My gut feeling is that Derek is actually a fair amount better and that's been Dan's biggest flaw in the eyes of the NBA.

jonesed
03-07-2007, 05:00 PM
I don't see DRav hanging in The Association. I see Greece in his future. Having said that, would it not be cool to see our boy reunited w Ammo as Bobcats?

UberZagFan
03-07-2007, 05:08 PM
Not only is Derek taller than most people think at 6'3", but I think he is deceptively stronger than most people think because his head is so small (the shaved head doesn't help).

This has to be one of the stranger statements that I've ever read on this board.

ZagMania
03-07-2007, 07:09 PM
This has to be one of the stranger statements that I've ever read on this board.

Thanks :)

ereiz03
03-07-2007, 07:49 PM
Is this thread a joke??? Raivio in the NBA?!? :lmao:

AllezZags
03-07-2007, 09:47 PM
Here is his college career stat line:
MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG
92-93 SantaClara 24.0 42.4 40.8 82.5 2.5 2.2 2.0 0.1 0.8 8.1
93-94 SantaClara 29.9 41.4 39.9 83.1 2.5 3.7 2.8 0.0 1.3 14.6
94-95 SantaClara 33.4 44.4 45.4 87.9 3.8 6.4 4.2 0.1 1.8 20.9
95-96 SantaClara 33.8 43.0 34.4 89.4 3.6 6.0 3.6 0.0 1.3 17.0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS 30.1 43.0 40.1 86.7 3.1 4.5 3.1 0.1 1.3 14.9

I watched him play throughout his college career and I never could have predicted Steve Nash would become the player he has (and none of you did either). Nash does not have an "NBA body" or super athleticism. He has drive, superior skills and a very high basketball IQ

Why do you think its not possible the Rav can play at that level? He is arguibly more athletic, and more accomplished than Nash at this stage in his b-ball life:
Season Averages
SEASON MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
2003-2004 11.4 3.1 .6 1.0 .7 1.41 .4 .0 .8 .484 .833 .489 1.47
2004-2005 36.4 13.0 2.6 4.8 2.1 2.26 1.6 .1 2.2 .427 .903 .458 1.54
2005-2006 32.3 11.1 2.3 2.8 1.5 1.89 1.5 .1 2.3 .388 .912 .358 1.32
2006-2007 36.2 18.2 3.2 2.6 1.8 1.44 1.5 .0 1.6 .455 .961 .411 1.47

why not?

With that I will add that I doubt he'll make the NBA. Which is exactly why I dont watch NBA games. it is a different product.

deathchina
03-07-2007, 10:07 PM
DR has way too many holes in his game to warrant any comparisons to Steve Nash or even Steve Kerr. He hasn't proven he can shoot NBA 3's with any accuracy, he doesn't create shots for others very well, he lacks classic drive and dish abilities, he has no strength or bulk, lacks ideal quickness, and is a questionable defender.

AllezZags
03-07-2007, 10:16 PM
I would say that, with the exception of the "classic drive and dish" capabilities, many of the holes you mention in Derek's game also could have been used against Nash in college. I am only saying that I think Nash developed his game after college- because I certainly did not see him as a future perennial NBA all-star at that time. Did you?

deathchina
03-07-2007, 10:28 PM
I never saw Nash play in college. however, he must have been doing SOMETHING right, as he was the 15th pick in a draft that featured, among others, Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby, Ray Allen, Steph Marbury, Kobe, Stojakovic, Jermaine O'neal and Antoine Walker.

youreachiteach
03-08-2007, 01:58 AM
I hope DR plays well next week.

ZagDaddy
03-08-2007, 05:02 AM
DR has way too many holes in his game to warrant any comparisons to Steve Nash or even Steve Kerr. He hasn't proven he can shoot NBA 3's with any accuracy, he doesn't create shots for others very well, he lacks classic drive and dish abilities, he has no strength or bulk, lacks ideal quickness, and is a questionable defender.

I'm assuming that the only thing that applies to Steve Kerr's game is where you say Derek hasn't proven he can shoot NBA 3's with any accuracy. That would probably be because he hasn't played games with an NBA 3 point line--pretty much like every college player. The rest of the deficiencies you point to also describe Kerr's. He was primarily a spot up shooter who couldn't defend all that well and had no bulk or strength. (I remember standing next to him at a hoopfest in MT during his playing days and being surprised at how little he was. He weighed about 165 pounds after a big meal with a roll of quarters in his pocket. Even though they listed him at 6'1" and 180, he was no 6'1" and no 180.)

In truth, I'm just giving you a hard time because I basically agree with you. Today's NBA teams are primarily focused on collecting athletes. My guess is a player like Kerr wouldn't be taken seriously if he graduated today. The same goes for Derek.

LongIslandZagFan
03-08-2007, 05:14 AM
I think his shot release is a potential problem for him as well. His shot release is low. In the NBA with the tighter Ds he'd have trouble getting his shot off cleanly. But who knows.

I think there is a place for him to be a 3 pt specialist.

Zagpower
03-08-2007, 07:25 AM
LIZF, I think it right on the head. DRAV's release point is too low on his shot. He has trouble getting it off over athletic defenders as we have seen for years. This would be exposed at the next level where he would be guarded by taller, more athletic players than we see now.
I love his game and have enjoyed watching him for four years here but I think his future lies overseas. I will, however, be pleasantly surprised if he proves me wrong!

CDC84
03-08-2007, 07:41 AM
Derek spent part of his youth in Europe, and, if I am not mistaken, he still speaks some French.

It'll come in handy, because like Batista, overseas basketball is where he is headed.......

To be honest, even if by some miracle Derek did get drafted, it'll be at the back end of the 1st round, and if he makes a team, he'll just sit. I would rather see him play overseas, make hundreds of thousands of dollars of tax free money, have most of his expenses paid, and get all the minutes he would ever want. I expect Raivio to be a hot commodity, just like JP was, for the Euro leagues. Gonzaga has a reputation for developing a number of really good Euro players. Derek has a future in the game, and that's what is most important because D-Rav loves the game.

I mean, I would love to see as many Gonzaga players in the NBA as possible, but seeing their names pop up on overseas rosters is fine by me as well.

jonesed
03-08-2007, 08:05 AM
(from a Gregg Doyel column (http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9306260) last year abt college basketball players and their doppelgangers)

1. Gonzaga PG Derek Raivio: This one leads the way because I'm especially proud of it. Does that mean I'm ashamed of the other look-alikes on this list? Not really. Not mostly at least. Anyway ... Raivio looks like Barry Pepper, who played the devout Catholic marksman in Saving Private Ryan and also was Roger Maris in the movie 61*. Last month I shared my brainstorm with Raivio, and his response was, and I quote, "Who?" So it's unanimous.

Asotin
03-08-2007, 11:38 AM
"Let's not beat the dead horse. We have no impact on whether or not he makes NBA."

mee755 if people are only allowed to discuss things that they have an impact on then all sports message boards will be empty.






"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

soonerterp
03-08-2007, 12:02 PM
Wow I'm glad I actually started an interesting thread here for a change ...


(from a Gregg Doyel column last year abt college basketball players and their doppelgangers)

1. Gonzaga PG Derek Raivio: This one leads the way because I'm especially proud of it. Does that mean I'm ashamed of the other look-alikes on this list? Not really. Not mostly at least. Anyway ... Raivio looks like Barry Pepper, who played the devout Catholic marksman in Saving Private Ryan and also was Roger Maris in the movie 61*. Last month I shared my brainstorm with Raivio, and his response was, and I quote, "Who?" So it's unanimous.

He sorta does look like Barry Pepper, actually.

Another poster makes a good point about another guard who came into the NBA after a four year career -- Steve Blake (Maryland, 2003) ... who STILL IS 6'3", 175 (roughly the same as Raivio's dimensions), averaged about 11.6 points as a senior (and that was an uptick from his previous three years) and has managed to find a place in the L even though it was thought he was a little weakling. Since his days at Maryland, however, Blake has developed his upper body considerably although he still has sorta spindly looking chicken legs. I actually think that's where the physical similarities end, for Raivio does not have spindly chicken legs.

Other more important dissimilarity -- Blake looks to pass before shooting more often than not (although George Karl now has him playing a lot of 2 in Denver lately). Raivio is more of a scoring point, although he can distribute.

john montana
03-08-2007, 12:19 PM
i think blake is much more of a playmaker than drav. lizf hit the issue. drav is one the best shooters out there, but he has trouble getting his shot off against bigger players. all he would face in the nba is bigger players. i can't see him making it in the nba.

i think he could be really effective in europe. lots of zone defense, they space the floor and love the drive and kick game. shooters flourish in international ball, and drav is one of the best shooters around.

roxdoc
03-08-2007, 12:50 PM
I think this subject has been beat to death!!!:horse:

LongIslandZagFan
03-08-2007, 02:10 PM
I think this subject has been beat to death!!!


Die Subject!!

:horse:

Die!!
:starwars:

Die!!
:explode:

:p

Zag79
03-08-2007, 02:52 PM
my 2 cents. oh come on you knew it was coming... ;) i say go to europe, and play alot, make a ton of money, and be a star. as far as the nba debate, if you couldnt see raivio would he be in the league? 46% from 3, 95% from the line 1 TO a game, handles the rock amazing, 18 pts a game, of course he would. nate robinson, steve blake, john lucas? in a game of one on one raivio could hang with any of them. the misconception he is skinny, weak, slow etc really are not true. he actually ever see has alot more show and nba style to his game than you will see while he plays at GU. either way he will make loot and be shooting hoops for a living.

Mantua
03-08-2007, 05:50 PM
He's been playing in the NBA. DR's dad may make a difference. Gotta go to the camps, Derek! People love you.

deathchina
03-08-2007, 08:57 PM
"46% from 3, 95% from the line 1 TO a game, handles the rock amazing, 18 pts a game,"

1. DR shot 41 percent from 3 this past season.

2. He averages 2 (rounded up from 1.8) turnovers a game

Zag79
03-09-2007, 01:40 PM
thanks for doing my stat work dc, im too lazy. ;) either way, my point was if most people looked at his stats they wouldnt say no as fast as they do from seeing him. anytime someone says anything about a players looks the credibility goes bye bye.