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B Wayne
11-20-2018, 11:48 AM
Almost everyone here knows Sean Miller is Arizona's head coach. A few less people here may be aware that over a year ago an ESPN reporter named Mark Schlabach reported that the FBI had wiretaps of Sean Miller offering his star named Deandre Ayton $100,000. Several posters on this board stated with certainty that Miller would lose his job because of this. I argued that we shouldn't automatically believe this to be true, that something a journalist says or writes isn't always true. I was in a small minority. People on this board responded that the reporter couldn't be wrong, or that the FBI would issue a press conference to deny Schlabach if it wasn't true.

I doubt many of these posters will now step forward and admit they were wrong. But let this be a lesson about sports news and also a civics reminder about

1) Presumption of innocence. If someone makes an accusation or assertion, the burden is on them to prove it. A person accused of something can't prove a negative. If I accused the reporter Schlabach of, say driving 90 mph 3 years ago, how could he prove it didn't happen?

2) Just because someone accuses someone of something wrong doesn't mean it happened. False accusations do happen. Repeatedly.

3) Just because a journalist says something doesn't make it any more reliable. It might even be less reliable.

4) Be aware of what you don't know. To the poster who said the accusation must be true otherwise the FBI would have held a press conference, you weren't aware of what you don't know about the FBI.

HenneZag
11-20-2018, 11:50 AM
Cool, now let's get back to basketball

GonzagasaurusFlex
11-20-2018, 11:57 AM
Cool, now let's get back to basketball

+1

jazzdelmar
11-20-2018, 11:59 AM
Seacatzag, that you?

mgadfly
11-20-2018, 12:00 PM
Almost everyone here knows Sean Miller is Arizona's head coach. A few less people here may be aware that over a year ago an ESPN reporter named Mark Schlabach reported that the FBI had wiretaps of Sean Miller offering his star named Deandre Ayton $100,000. Several posters on this board stated with certainty that Miller would lose his job because of this. I argued that we shouldn't automatically believe this to be true, that something a journalist says or writes isn't always true. I was in a small minority. People on this board responded that the reporter couldn't be wrong, or that the FBI would issue a press conference to deny Schlabach if it wasn't true.

I doubt many of these posters will now step forward and admit they were wrong. But let this be a lesson about sports news and also a civics reminder about

1) Presumption of innocence. If someone makes an accusation or assertion, the burden is on them to prove it. A person accused of something can't prove a negative. If I accused the reporter Schlabach of, say driving 90 mph 3 years ago, how could he prove it didn't happen?

2) Just because someone accuses someone of something wrong doesn't mean it happened. False accusations do happen. Repeatedly.

3) Just because a journalist says something doesn't make it any more reliable. It might even be less reliable.

4) Be aware of what you don't know. To the poster who said the accusation must be true otherwise the FBI would have held a press conference, you weren't aware of what you don't know about the FBI.
Are we still allowed to dislike Miller for his comments about what a real man is after the disgraceful brawl between Xavier and Cincinnati after he had left for Zona?

And the presumption of innocence is a criminal law thing, I am pretty sure no one here actually prosecuted Miller. I make judgments about people all the time. I don't require proof beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is a scumbag before I rule then out as unqualified to babysit fit me. I don't like Miller. I don't like his attitude and I don't like the words he uses. No idea about the FBI stuff and I didn't say anything about that. But just because a prosecutor can't get a conviction doesn't mean I have to like a person or even think they aren't guilty.

MDABE80
11-20-2018, 12:12 PM
You mean we have "FAKE NEWS" in athletics too!!??? I gasp!

basketballzag
11-20-2018, 12:14 PM
Are we still allowed to dislike Miller for his comments about what a real man is after the disgraceful brawl between Xavier and Cincinnati after he had left for Zona?

And the presumption of innocence is a criminal law thing, I am pretty sure no one here actually prosecuted Miller. I make judgments about people all the time. I don't require proof beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is a scumbag before I rule then out as unqualified to babysit fit me. I don't like Miller. I don't like his attitude and I don't like the words he uses. No idea about the FBI stuff and I didn't say anything about that. But just because a prosecutor can't get a conviction doesn't mean I have to like a person or even think they aren't guilty.


The ESPN report also linked Dawkins to Arizona head coach Sean Miller via phone records. Phones registered to Dawkins and Miller were connected multiple times between May 3 and July 2, 2017, ESPN reported, citing evidentiary files obtained from the federal trial. Thirteen calls lasted five or more minutes.

The trial is in April and information is still coming out daily so I don't think anyone can say that the allegations are untrue at this stage.

ProVeeZag
11-20-2018, 12:16 PM
You mean we have "FAKE NEWS" in athletics too!!??? I gasp!

Shocking.....SHOCKING!!

Zagceo
11-20-2018, 12:17 PM
and in breaking news....Roy Williams has not been charged with knowingly having knowledge of no show classes by UNCcheats administrators!

in unrelated news.....Pacific sanctions have been extended

bartruff1
11-20-2018, 12:29 PM
Are we still allowed to dislike Miller for his comments about what a real man is after the disgraceful brawl between Xavier and Cincinnati after he had left for Zona?

And the presumption of innocence is a criminal law thing, I am pretty sure no one here actually prosecuted Miller. I make judgments about people all the time. I don't require proof beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is a scumbag before I rule then out as unqualified to babysit fit me. I don't like Miller. I don't like his attitude and I don't like the words he uses. No idea about the FBI stuff and I didn't say anything about that. But just because a prosecutor can't get a conviction doesn't mean I have to like a person or even think they aren't guilty.

Yes, after the University reviewed the incident/situation and allowed the coach back on the job.....as far as I was concerned... the ESPN story was suspect at best.....BUT...

I am with Mgadfly….I lost all respect for him as a person after his comments about the Cincy/X brawl ...in fact I lost all respect for both schools as well.... I believe he recruited some of those kind of " zip them up " players at X and brought one of the jerks to Arizona....

I hope Gonzaga makes him sweat ….:)

kitzbuel
11-20-2018, 12:33 PM
The ESPN report also linked Dawkins to Arizona head coach Sean Miller via phone records. Phones registered to Dawkins and Miller were connected multiple times between May 3 and July 2, 2017, ESPN reported, citing evidentiary files obtained from the federal trial. Thirteen calls lasted five or more minutes.

The trial is in April and information is still coming out daily so I don't think anyone can say that the allegations are untrue at this stage.

Yep. I believe nothing has been settled yet. The trial will determine that.

Zagricultural
11-20-2018, 12:37 PM
Arizona was also mentioned in the Adidas trial. Where there's that much smoke there's probably some fire. I believe it's more likely Arizona paid recruits than not.

zagsfanforlife
11-20-2018, 12:39 PM
Almost everyone here knows Sean Miller is Arizona's head coach. A few less people here may be aware that over a year ago an ESPN reporter named Mark Schlabach reported that the FBI had wiretaps of Sean Miller offering his star named Deandre Ayton $100,000. Several posters on this board stated with certainty that Miller would lose his job because of this. I argued that we shouldn't automatically believe this to be true, that something a journalist says or writes isn't always true. I was in a small minority. People on this board responded that the reporter couldn't be wrong, or that the FBI would issue a press conference to deny Schlabach if it wasn't true.

I doubt many of these posters will now step forward and admit they were wrong. But let this be a lesson about sports news and also a civics reminder about

1) Presumption of innocence. If someone makes an accusation or assertion, the burden is on them to prove it. A person accused of something can't prove a negative. If I accused the reporter Schlabach of, say driving 90 mph 3 years ago, how could he prove it didn't happen?

2) Just because someone accuses someone of something wrong doesn't mean it happened. False accusations do happen. Repeatedly.

3) Just because a journalist says something doesn't make it any more reliable. It might even be less reliable.

4) Be aware of what you don't know. To the poster who said the accusation must be true otherwise the FBI would have held a press conference, you weren't aware of what you don't know about the FBI.


I have some beautiful ocean front property in Compton, Ca to sell you.

Bogozags
11-20-2018, 12:39 PM
The FBI is currently content with the convictions they received but IMO don't think the investigation is completed.

The NCAA still has its investigation and if the evidence on the wiretaps is accurate then I would guess the NCAA enforcement committee will catch up to the violators...

I think the reason these schools have not yet acted on the evidence is due to possible lawsuits - in essence the money schools would have to pay out to "buy off" the coaches' contracts. It cost UL a lot of money to get rid of Pitino and I think that is what these schools have on their mind.

NEC26
11-20-2018, 12:39 PM
Seems your jumping the gun while saying others shouldn't have.

Grand Valley Zag
11-20-2018, 12:51 PM
Almost everyone here knows Sean Miller is Arizona's head coach. A few less people here may be aware that over a year ago an ESPN reporter named Mark Schlabach reported that the FBI had wiretaps of Sean Miller offering his star named Deandre Ayton $100,000. Several posters on this board stated with certainty that Miller would lose his job because of this. I argued that we shouldn't automatically believe this to be true, that something a journalist says or writes isn't always true. I was in a small minority. People on this board responded that the reporter couldn't be wrong, or that the FBI would issue a press conference to deny Schlabach if it wasn't true.

I doubt many of these posters will now step forward and admit they were wrong. But let this be a lesson about sports news and also a civics reminder about

1) Presumption of innocence. If someone makes an accusation or assertion, the burden is on them to prove it. A person accused of something can't prove a negative. If I accused the reporter Schlabach of, say driving 90 mph 3 years ago, how could he prove it didn't happen?

2) Just because someone accuses someone of something wrong doesn't mean it happened. False accusations do happen. Repeatedly.

3) Just because a journalist says something doesn't make it any more reliable. It might even be less reliable.

4) Be aware of what you don't know. To the poster who said the accusation must be true otherwise the FBI would have held a press conference, you weren't aware of what you don't know about the FBI.


Presumption of innocence is for courts. That's it. If you have been accused of horse rustlin, and you're otherwise a stranger, I'm not going to hire you to take care of my horses. I don't owe you an investigation.

23dpg
11-20-2018, 12:52 PM
https://bestteenagersever.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/napoleon-dynamite.jpg

JPtheBeasta
11-20-2018, 01:00 PM
He’s still an underperforming coach and probably shouldn’t have his current job much longer due to poor job performance. He’s a heck of a recruiter, though.

Ezag
11-20-2018, 01:00 PM
It is always guilty until proven innocent especially in the social media era. This scandal was mostly shady agents and consults behind this but I still think Sean is shady.

zagsfanforlife
11-20-2018, 01:19 PM
Sean is a slimeball. Like a lot of coaches. We got a good one.

Martin Centre Mad Man
11-20-2018, 01:23 PM
Almost everyone here knows Sean Miller is Arizona's head coach. A few less people here may be aware that over a year ago an ESPN reporter named Mark Schlabach reported that the FBI had wiretaps of Sean Miller offering his star named Deandre Ayton $100,000. Several posters on this board stated with certainty that Miller would lose his job because of this. I argued that we shouldn't automatically believe this to be true, that something a journalist says or writes isn't always true. I was in a small minority. People on this board responded that the reporter couldn't be wrong, or that the FBI would issue a press conference to deny Schlabach if it wasn't true.

I doubt many of these posters will now step forward and admit they were wrong. But let this be a lesson about sports news and also a civics reminder about

1) Presumption of innocence. If someone makes an accusation or assertion, the burden is on them to prove it. A person accused of something can't prove a negative. If I accused the reporter Schlabach of, say driving 90 mph 3 years ago, how could he prove it didn't happen?

2) Just because someone accuses someone of something wrong doesn't mean it happened. False accusations do happen. Repeatedly.

3) Just because a journalist says something doesn't make it any more reliable. It might even be less reliable.

4) Be aware of what you don't know. To the poster who said the accusation must be true otherwise the FBI would have held a press conference, you weren't aware of what you don't know about the FBI.

This investigation is far from over. Federal investigations like this can take years to resolve. He has not been exonerated. He may still be indicted before this is over.

ZagMan in Philly
11-20-2018, 01:25 PM
Please, he doesn't deserve a thread on our board to claim his innocence.

maynard g krebs
11-20-2018, 01:46 PM
North Carolina didn't commit academic fraud either. And Duke doesn't get every charge/block call late in a close game.

And, of course, Pacific and Saint Mary's are guilty as hell.

Did I leave anything out?