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View Full Version : Will the Zags see a steady diet of zone D . .



RenoZag
11-17-2018, 07:30 PM
. . .when they get to Maui ? Or will we see man to man ?

If the opposition decides there's one guy they don't want to beat them, who is that Zag ? And if the double teams come, who are they daring to take command and score the basketball ?

Am anticipating the litmus test of this year’s team (so far ) next week at Lahaina Civic Center will be exciting, nail biting, and fun to follow.

And you ?

bartruff1
11-17-2018, 08:20 PM
I suspect they will play a lot of zone(s) intended to limit Gonzaga's inside scoring ....and try to make the Zags beat them with 3's....

Gonzaga shooting 53% overall …...and 33% from the three point line....small sample size....

MickMick
11-17-2018, 08:25 PM
Zone?

Catch n shoot. Kispert. Norvell. Perkins. Swing passes baby!

https://coachingtoolbox.net/basketball-drills/swing-skip-pass-shooting-drill.html


Double team?

Six players average double figures in scoring. I dare the opposition to waste an extra defensive body on one individual Zag. Teams will have trouble keeping up with rotations, let alone attempting to double team.


Full court press?

Two experienced senior guards that can both run the offense, have adequate handles, and have both seen every kind of defense you can throw at them. Additionally, a freak power forward that can dribble the length and stuff.

MDABE80
11-17-2018, 08:37 PM
Depends on the opponent. Duke. If we meet them, won’t zone. They won’t need to. The earlier opponents might if we re too tough inside. We aren’t big down low but superior athletically . Great website Mick!

zagamatic
11-17-2018, 09:27 PM
If teams try to zone us, I can see Rui and Clarke scoring a lot of points from the free throw line area

jazzdelmar
11-18-2018, 01:18 AM
Stop Clarke, is the key. Linchpin of the team on both ends.

Zagger
11-18-2018, 04:22 AM
Think the Zags will see teams try both Z and M2M .... and just plain have a hard time keeping up with the Zags variety of offense and scoring power from starting 5 and then some. There's a reason the lowest Zag score has been 94 so far.

MickMick
11-18-2018, 07:39 AM
Stop Clarke, is the key. Linchpin of the team on both ends.

I agree and disagree.

I agree that Clarke will become a focal point in opposing game plans as more video is revealed and distributed, but it will be more along the lines of blocking him out to mitigate his "put backs" and rebounds. The mantra will be to "body up" Clarke. Clarke is going to have to learn the nuances of making himself available for looks without pushing off and drawing fouls when the focus is to basically maul him.

I disagree, with regard to defending the Zag's offense, that stopping Clarke will stop the team. Rui is such an athletic, offensive force that teams will pay heavily for Clarke's distraction. Hell, it will even open up Kispert sneaking down the baseline for easy points in the paint.

The beauty of the ability to score from all five positions is that the best and only viable defense is to get into the players heads by making the game chaotic and taking them out of their comfort zone. Forcing turnovers and bad shot selection via defensive intensity and aggressiveness (which makes free throw shooting huge). The best opposing defense isn't necessarily by mitigating the Zag's best offensive players, but by exploiting the Zag's weakest ball handlers and passers. In other words, if the Zags play their game, keep their wits about them and don't get rattled, make their free throws, follow the game plan, then they are almost undefendable. It basically harkens back to the days of Morrison, Ravio, and Batista when opponents simply had no alternative but to outscore them.

TexasZagFan
11-18-2018, 08:02 AM
I agree and disagree.

I agree that Clarke will become a focal point in opposing game plans as more video is revealed and distributed but it will be more along the lines of blocking him out to mitigate his "put backs" and rebounds. The mantra will be to "body up" Clarke. Clarke is going to have to learn the nuances of making himself available for looks without pushing off and drawing fouls when the focus is to basically maul him.

I disagree that with regards to Zag's offense, stopping Clarke will stop the team. Rui is such an athletic, offensive force that teams will pay heavily for Clarke's distraction. Hell, it will even open up Kispert sneaking down the baseline for easy points in the paint.

The beauty of the ability to score from all five positions is the best and only viable defense is to get into the players heads by making the game chaotic and taking them out of their comfort zone. Forcing turnovers and bad shot selection. In other words, if the Zags play their game, they are almost unbeatable.

Good points...woe be to the team that focuses their defense on stopping Clarke. IMHO, he's option 1C behind Rui and Zach. This offense is so damn fluid that our 5 starters have excellent offensive abilities all their own. After seeing Corey take it to the hoop against A&M, we have four players that can create their own shot, and Brandon is not that far behind.

The offense is designed to run through Rui, very few college players can guard him one on one. Oh, he'll get a shot blocked every now and then, but his repertoire has vastly expanded since last year.

Josh is the Floor General that has no hesitation in shooting if he's left wide open.

Zach is The Assassin, the cold-blooded shooter who doesn't care if he's missed his last five shots. For that matter, the coaches don't care, either. That's what makes him so dangerous. If you try and double him, he'll find the open man. His basketball IQ is mensa level.

Brandon is the Beast, a J3 player with more athleticism. As he learns to pass out of the double, Zags offense will be even more lethal.

Corey is a feisty bad-ass too, you can see his game growing. If he's left alone by teams doubling on Rui or Brandon, he'll hurt them more often than not.


The beautiful part of the offense is that no one is afraid to take an open shot. We all recall times in previous years where that was not the case. Our first two off the bench, Geno & Filip, are immersing themselves in the system, and you can see their confidence growing.

When a healthy Tillie returns...wow! I would think Corey becomes the 6th man in that scenario, with a 5 man rotation at the 3-4-5 (Rui, BC, KT, CK, and FP), and a 3 man rotation at the 1-2 (Josh, Zach, & Geno).

DixieZag
11-18-2018, 08:08 AM
I agree and disagree.

I agree that Clarke will become a focal point in opposing game plans as more video is revealed and distributed, but it will be more along the lines of blocking him out to mitigate his "put backs" and rebounds. The mantra will be to "body up" Clarke. Clarke is going to have to learn the nuances of making himself available for looks without pushing off and drawing fouls when the focus is to basically maul him.

I disagree, with regard to defending the Zag's offense, that stopping Clarke will stop the team. Rui is such an athletic, offensive force that teams will pay heavily for Clarke's distraction. Hell, it will even open up Kispert sneaking down the baseline for easy points in the paint.

The beauty of the ability to score from all five positions is that the best and only viable defense is to get into the players heads by making the game chaotic and taking them out of their comfort zone. Forcing turnovers and bad shot selection via defensive intensity and aggressiveness (which makes free throw shooting huge). The best opposing defense isn't necessarily by mitigating the Zag's best offensive players, but by exploiting the Zag's weakest ball handlers and passers. In other words, if the Zags play their game, keep their wits about them and don't get rattled, make their free throws, follow the game plan, then they are almost unbeatable.

Nice post.

I also think that the 3 pt% is not indicative of the dangerousness of the team from deep. Norvelle hasn't yet become the high overall percentage 3 pt sniper that Stepp, Morrison, Pangos were, but he scores in bunches and if the defense doesn't reflect the need to stop him early, he alone can bury a team. Crandall is definitely a better shooter than the % indicates, and Josh has yet to need to score.

Any team that focuses too greatly on the low 3pt % and spends too much time zoning and double teaming the twin forwards probably will pay dearly.

bartruff1
11-18-2018, 11:05 AM
Apparently resistance is futile...all opponents will simply be assimilated …..

MickMick
11-18-2018, 11:09 AM
Apparently resistance is futile...all opponents will simply be assimilated …..

Once you go Borg, you never go back :)

Martin Centre Mad Man
11-18-2018, 11:55 AM
Nice post.

I also think that the 3 pt% is not indicative of the dangerousness of the team from deep. Norvelle hasn't yet become the high overall percentage 3 pt sniper that Stepp, Morrison, Pangos were, but he scores in bunches and if the defense doesn't reflect the need to stop him early, he alone can bury a team. Crandall is definitely a better shooter than the % indicates, and Josh has yet to need to score.

Any team that focuses too greatly on the low 3pt % and spends too much time zoning and double teaming the twin forwards probably will pay dearly.

Snacks is shooting over .390 from three for the season and was over .370 as a freshman. All of the snipers you mentioned had seasons with lower percentages than that. In some ways, I think he’s a more dangerous outside threat than Pangos or Raivio, because he can get off his shot against tighter defense than they could. He’s longer and can hit higher ‘degree of difficulty’ shots than they could. I think his shot selection will improve. Just because he can hit the turnaround fadeaway shot with a hand in his face doesn’t mean that it is necessarily the best shot that the offense might find over the life of the shot clock. On the other hand, if the shot clock is winding down and nothing else is there, it’s nice to know that he has a legitimate chance to hit it.

Martin Centre Mad Man
11-18-2018, 12:04 PM
The beauty of the ability to score from all five positions is that the best and only viable defense is to get into the players heads by making the game chaotic and taking them out of their comfort zone. Forcing turnovers and bad shot selection via defensive intensity and aggressiveness (which makes free throw shooting huge). The best opposing defense isn't necessarily by mitigating the Zag's best offensive players, but by exploiting the Zag's weakest ball handlers and passers. In other words, if the Zags play their game, keep their wits about them and don't get rattled, make their free throws, follow the game plan, then they are almost undefendable. It basically harkens back to the days of Morrison, Ravio, and Batista when opponents simply had no alternative but to outscore them.

I think this offense is much more dangerous than the Morrison/Raivio era. This team is far more balanced. Our top seven players are capable of scoring fifteen points on any given night and Rui and Norvelle are a threat to go for thirty. Teams can’t safely cheat away from any player the way they could sag off of PMAC or Mallon.

These kids are also much better defensively as a unit. This team can win a track meet style of game, but they shouldn’t need to.

bartruff1
11-18-2018, 12:05 PM
I am with Jazz...two quick fouls on Clarke would change the game.....If Gonzaga couldn't make threes at home …..I suspect they will have to prove they can do it in Maui..... opponents would rather have Rui and Clarke shooting from 12 feet away than 3 feet above the basket....

I think they will win the first game but then it will get much more difficult....

Reborn
11-18-2018, 01:29 PM
I don't think it really matters. I'm sure we'll see it. Because Gonzaga is such a good passing team, and because we have such a great fast breaking team, I don't think it really matters. But i'm sure we'll see. We have seen a lot of it so far.

Go Zags!!!

GonzagasaurusFlex
11-18-2018, 02:04 PM
The beauty of the ability to score from all five positions is that the best and only viable defense is to get into the players heads by making the game chaotic and taking them out of their comfort zone. Forcing turnovers and bad shot selection via defensive intensity and aggressiveness (which makes free throw shooting huge). The best opposing defense isn't necessarily by mitigating the Zag's best offensive players, but by exploiting the Zag's weakest ball handlers and passers. In other words, if the Zags play their game, keep their wits about them and don't get rattled, make their free throws, follow the game plan, then they are almost undefendable. It basically harkens back to the days of Morrison, Ravio, and Batista when opponents simply had no alternative but to outscore them.

Agree w you 100% that best way to attack this Zags team defensively is high pressure, disruptive D that seeks to speed them up and force turnovers. I think drawing Illini in Maui for game #1 is great because that’s exactly how they defend yet they don’t have same level of athletes / talent as, say, Auburn or Duke. Great opportunity for Zags to experience this kind of commitment to chaotic inducing D that Brad Underwood’s teams go all in on.

LOL earlier poster re: all opponents will simply succumb to Zags greatness. This board is understandably excited about Zags’ talent and ranking this season, but after watching Providence vs Michigan today my thought was either of these teams could beat Zags on a given day (See Furman besting Nova). Providence got beat handily but they go 10 deep all athletic 6’5”. - 6’10” athletes and love to press. Love our Zags but lotta room for growth / prove it games before we pencil them into Maui Championship (or certainly Final Four).

ProVeeZag
11-18-2018, 07:09 PM
Agree w you 100% that best way to attack this Zags team defensively is high pressure, disruptive D that seeks to speed them up and force turnovers. I think drawing Illini in Maui for game #1 is great because that’s exactly how they defend yet they don’t have same level of athletes / talent as, say, Auburn or Duke. Great opportunity for Zags to experience this kind of commitment to chaotic inducing D that Brad Underwood’s teams go all in on.

If we do face the "high pressure", "disruptive", "chaotic" defenses that are anticipated by several posters, it may well come down to how these games are officiated, free throw conversions and bench strength. I sense a real toughness in this Zag team that can overcome adversity resulting from officials who "swallow their whistles". I do think it's critical to keep Rui and Clarke on the floor and out of foul trouble.

EEzag
11-19-2018, 07:05 AM
If we do face the "high pressure", "disruptive", "chaotic" defenses that are anticipated by several posters, it may well come down to how these games are officiated, free throw conversions and bench strength. I sense a real toughness in this Zag team that can overcome adversity resulting from officials who "swallow their whistles". I do think it's critical to keep Rui and Clarke on the floor and out of foul trouble.

Zone or loose M2M on the perimeter, teams will make the Zags beat them from 3, and if they do, the other teams will adjust. Generally, (unless you are playing a zone only team) is a team sticks with zone it's because you haven't made them. You pass to beat a zone, but have to hit 3's when in rhythm.

Reborn
11-19-2018, 07:33 AM
We'll see zones while in Maui. But Gonzaga will destroy them. Good passing beats zones. Gonzaga has a very good passing team.

Zags know how to beat presses. They have played against the best pressing teams and have most often won. West Virginia probably has the best pressing team in the country and the Zags have played against them a few Times. I hope Illinois presses us full-court. I would love to see how the Zags handle it.

Go Zags!!!

Zagceo
11-19-2018, 07:57 AM
Match-up Zone ....might see... and be seen

basketballzag
11-19-2018, 08:24 AM
I predict that Fouls will be called early and often in the Illinois game given the way Illinois plays and Gonzaga's ability to foul.

Reborn
11-19-2018, 10:21 AM
[QUOTE=GonzagasaurusFlex;1407857]LOL earlier poster re: all opponents will simply succumb to Zags greatness. This board is understandably excited about Zags’ talent and ranking this season, but after watching Providence vs Michigan today my thought was either of these teams could beat Zags on a given day (See Furman besting Nova).

I've heard it said that any team can beat anyone on any given day. The reverse of your statement is also very true. Gonzaga could beat both teams on any given day. So if you are try8ing to see is that Gonzaga could win tonight, but it's also true that Gonzaga is going to lose tonight. I wonder what you really think about who will win, if you were to put 50 bucks on.

bballbeachbum
11-19-2018, 11:03 AM
zoning the Zags might help control the screen/roll and dribble penetration depending how it's played; it depends on if the zone is extended to force the dribble or packed to take it away. a viable post/FT line option helps destroy most zones whether packed or not, especially with vision passing to the weakside (OT: watched that video of Timme; he looked pretty good at this, among many things).

if zoned, along with what others have mentioned above, maybe we'll see Zags attack the weakside O glass with Clarke, CK, Rui, Zach, Filip, whoever's off the ball, and hopefully Zags can also win some O long rebounds from the guards in the circle. inside out against zones usually effective with good passing to move the zone (side to side, high to low, etc.) and open gaps to attack with cuts or off the bounce. Zags with a nice toolbox to attack zones seems to me inside out. we'll see if it happens if they are zoned.

vs. pressure D hope to see them just punish the attempt with points at the rim and then pressure the opposition right back!

Aloha to all of you down there representing :cheers: