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MontanaZag
11-03-2007, 08:52 AM
Just a little topic to help get us by until the season opens . . .


Who do you think is the greatest "shooter" in Gonzaga History?

My vote goes the man from the land down under, John Rillie, what do you think?

finechina2003
11-03-2007, 09:06 AM
I guess it depends on how you define greatest "shooter". Ravio would get my vote based on what he accomplished from the free throw line; but my vote would go to Adam if greatest "shooter" was based on who was money in a clutch game deciding situation.

siliconzag
11-03-2007, 09:07 AM
nm

MDABE80
11-03-2007, 09:19 AM
Old Zags ( pre 1985)- Burgess

New Zags(post 1985)- Dickau

Hi Sili..welcome back;)

Nevtelen
11-03-2007, 09:30 AM
Ammo. There were other shooters who were better from the outside (Rillie is one) and guys who were better at the line (Raivio), but overall Morrison had the largest repetoire of shots and sunk all of them at a very high rate. And he was clutch. He gets my vote.

gonzagulous
11-03-2007, 09:57 AM
Stepp and Dickau both had beautiful shots and unlimited range.... I think I'd give the edge to Dickau though.

How about another question - who has the best shot at being one of the best shooters in GU history on the current team? I'd have to go with Micah just because I haven't seen any of our new guys play.

finechina2003
11-03-2007, 10:01 AM
From the current team Micah definitely has the best "shot" at being one of the greatest Zag shooters of all time. He is definitely a pure shooter.

jazzdelmar
11-03-2007, 10:10 AM
if i hadda pick one guy to make a gm winner ---- DD ---------not even close. and the shot itself is only half the reason.....the best clutch plyr in my short time on this Zag bandwagon..................ps: I was at the Pep gm at USD; nuff said.................

BobZag
11-03-2007, 10:39 AM
Rillie was a pure shooter and single-handedly shot GU into the Big Dance. DD was most clutch as a shooter. Ammo was a scorer.

Downs has a gorgeous shot.

MontanaZag
11-03-2007, 11:10 AM
Completely agree with Downs on the current squad, he is gonna score a lot of points this year!

bartruff1
11-03-2007, 11:15 AM
No contest...Frank Burgess...led the country in scoring with no real help... no 3 point play.......

Who Dat
11-03-2007, 12:22 PM
It is no contest! Bankhead and Richie are the best. Bankhead was either first or second in the nation in three point shooting percentage his senior year. DD would admit that Richie and Bankhead are better shooters. Burgess was not a shooter. He was a scorer.

ZagNative
11-03-2007, 12:43 PM
Welcome Who Dat! I don't know if this story is subscription only, "Frank Burgess: All-American Zag (http://gonzaga.scout.com/2/256181.html)," but it says this:


The 1960-61 Gonzaga media guide describes Frank’s game:


Burgess scored in his sophomore season mostly on driving layins and short jumpers and one-handers, but as the defense tightened on him last year, as a junior, he added a deadly two-handed set shot from 30-to-40 feet out which enabled him to keep the defense honest.

His speed is deceptive and he employs amazing change- of-pace in all his moves on the court. He likes to take his defense “one-on-one” to fake, feign and maneuver for his favorite shot, a one-handed jumper

zag67
11-03-2007, 12:49 PM
I agree on Burgess. He was a great ball handler and knew how to create his own shot. Layins, short range and long. No 3 point line existed.

Reborn
11-03-2007, 01:31 PM
Good hearing from ya Silli. Hope you had a great Summmer and Fall. Just a few more days.

I never saw Burgess play so it would be hard to vote for him, but I'm sure he would need to be considered. After that it's Morrison. Not even close iMO. Dickau would be next. Did Burgess make 1st team All American? Ammo and Dickau did, and Adam led the nation in scoring. Best shooter to me means exactly that....not best 3 pt shooter, or best pure shooter. Or best shooter when wide open. I think many fans have forgotten ALL of the UNBELIEVABLE shots that Adam Morrison made with 2-3 guys hanging all over him...I'll never forget the San Francisco game....Maybe people are still to hurt over the loss to UCLA, but come on.........Best shooter means the best scorer...period. When you score you get a + sign as a shooter. Adam has the most +'s in my opinion.

wiszag
11-03-2007, 01:50 PM
End of discussion.

Reborn
11-03-2007, 02:28 PM
Wiszag would like to End this discussion, but this one will go on forever, and will continue to be one of the favorite discussions as fans wait for a new season and a new rising star.

former1dog
11-03-2007, 03:13 PM
Best shooter since I've been following the team in1988 is by far Dan Dickau.

SDzagster
11-03-2007, 04:01 PM
Using Abe's criteria - best since 85 is Dickau...but Morrison and Downs are very close.
Before 85, I can't remember seeing Burgess play, but there was a pure shooter named John Brodsky in the late 60's who I would nominate..."saintzag" and "zag67" would remember him.

gu03alum
11-03-2007, 04:05 PM
Post 1995 (I'm too young to remember any further back) 1. Dan Dickau, 2. Adam Morrison, 3. Derek Ravio

Birddog
11-03-2007, 05:02 PM
there was a pure shooter named John Brodsky in the late 60's who I would nominate
Brodsky was pretty good, at one time led the nation in consecutive made free throws with 40 something, but was not in Burgess' league as a shooter. Burgess wins this contest hands down. For modern times I'd pick Dickau, he was money so many times late in the half or late in the game.

If you remember Brodsky, then you should remember Jed Steele, he used to come into the game and bomb away with some long shots that would be 3's nowadays. I used to love it when he would come in and toss in 3, 4, or 5 in a row.

Birddog

Proudzagmom
11-03-2007, 05:17 PM
I have three former players I believe are the best shooters in GU history: Bankhead, DD, and Mo. I am hoping that I can add Bouldin to this list in a few years too. I really like this kid and I am looking forward to watching him this year.

D Hark 2003
11-03-2007, 05:28 PM
That is a tough one to answer but i would have to go with Dickau. Stepp was good but missed a five footer in double ot to win the game against arizona my senior year so call me bitter. After Dickau i would say Morrison and then Frahm and then Rillie.

From this years squad it is going to be Downs with Gray showing that he will be the shooter in a couple years

sofa king
11-03-2007, 05:32 PM
The Aussie FO SHO! My man John Rillie! As great as those early runs in the sweet 16/elite 8 years were, Watching John Rillie go off to get into the tourney the first time (1995?) was unbelievable.

ZagNative
11-03-2007, 05:43 PM
I'm just hoping for great things from Austin and Steven shooting down the road, so that we can etch a second and/or third name on that Dave Teleps Memorial Zags Plaque, "Great Zag Players I Underrated or missed entirely in Scout Rankings," right after Ammo's name.

zagsDH
11-03-2007, 06:02 PM
I would say Rillie or Dickau

SunDevilGolfZag
11-03-2007, 06:30 PM
Rillie initially sticks out in my mind, but I think Jimmy McPhee was perhaps the greatest shooter overall. The guy was absolutely automatic. I've had just enough wine tonight to not be able to statistically back this up, but my instincts are telling me its him. Prove me wrong.

sonuvazag
11-03-2007, 06:35 PM
McPhee worth mentioning. I'm voting for Rillie, though, on the basis of who would win a game of HORSE requiring all shots greater than 19 ft. out. Not giving any consideration to ability to create shot with the dribble which Rillie was not much for. His ability to create a shot meant setting up deeper on the corner until the defense gave up on covering him.

SunDevilGolfZag
11-03-2007, 06:38 PM
I have to say, watching Rillie consisitently can shots from just inside the coaches box was a sight to behold. Amazing!

jimmy b
11-03-2007, 09:24 PM
Dickau and Frahm

tyra
11-03-2007, 10:18 PM
In part, this is a mathematical queston. (Before you pile on, I did say in part) Who has the highest field goal percentage with some reasonable minimum number of shots taken? And btw, is this kind of information available online anywhere?

sittingon50
11-03-2007, 11:26 PM
1. Bill Dunlap 62.5 (80-82)
2. Scott Snider 61.2 (95-96)
3. J.P. 59.8 (04-06)
4. Casey 57.9 (98-01)
6. Zach 56.9 (00-03)
7. John Stockton 55.9 (81-84)
8. Paul Rogers 55.6 (95-97)
9. Jeff Brown 55.5 (92-94)

Zag79
11-04-2007, 08:07 PM
old zag, rillie.
mid zag, dickau.
most recent zag, mo.
raivio also gets a vote form me as far as fts and 3 pt shooting go. stepp is up there but he was the streakiest shooter i have seen.

Bocco
11-04-2007, 09:50 PM
Best shooter? Good arguments can be made for Burgess, Stockton, Morrison and a number of other players.

But of all the players I have seen play at GU since I saw my first game in 1967, who, with the game on the line would I want to take the final, if it goes in the Zags win, shot it would be without question Dan Dickau

MickMick
11-05-2007, 04:48 AM
Who led the nation in scoring for the majority of a season?

stevet75
11-05-2007, 06:20 AM
Burgess and Morrison, not necessarily in that order. Nobody was as consistant as those two.

lothar98zag
11-05-2007, 11:47 AM
The Aussie FO SHO! My man John Rillie! As great as those early runs in the sweet 16/elite 8 years were, Watching John Rillie go off to get into the tourney the first time (1995?) was unbelievable.
not voting for anyone, bu thought these Rillie highlights are worth sharing:

LINK (http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid340410576/bclid367269702/bctid372183785)

btw, make sure to check out the MANY other zag videos on that site (1st post on this site - HERE (http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?t=6298))

23dpg
11-05-2007, 01:27 PM
I don't know who the best shooter is, but it does crack me up when some of you say "no contest" or "isn't even close". Such a black and white answer for such a grey question.........I'll say Stepp.

And 40 foot set shots?

Zag By the Bay
11-05-2007, 03:20 PM
Morrison, McPhee and Blake were all money in my book, but I would have to lean towards Adam.

gamagin
11-05-2007, 05:13 PM
Not too difficult to dispute who shot the best.

Career FG % (from last season's Media Guide)

1. Bill Dunlap 62.5 (80-82)
2. Scott Snider 61.2 (95-96)
3. J.P. 59.8 (04-06)
4. Casey 57.9 (98-01)
6. Zach 56.9 (00-03)
7. John Stockton 55.9 (81-84)
8. Paul Rogers 55.6 (95-97)
9. Jeff Brown 55.5 (92-94)

Dunlap, snider, it looks like, played 2 seasons. J.P., rogers, brown, 3 seasons, and Casey, Zach and Stockton played 4 seasons.

Casey & Zach shot more high percentage shots than Stockton yet Stockton was a hair on a gnats arse less accurate than those dunking and laying in and firing from ohhhhh, 1-3 feet, albeit in traffic.

This leaves Stock, who happens to have done pretty well as a pro, too, holding two all time records that may never be exceeded.

I don't knw what his shooting percentage was in the bigs, but I do know he had very respectable averages and most, like me, were disappointed he didn't shoot more. But he didn't. Even at that he was at or near the top of percentages in threes, twos and free throws.

As for who I most enjoyed watching shoot, well, that brings Ammo & Burgess as essentially interchangeble for entertainment, savvy and accuracy. Dickau and Rillie, J.P., and Billy Suter were great fun. So was derek ravio who killed his share of teams at the charity stripe. money shooter. Jim McPhee, too, holds special sway.

But my all time favorite, the one that made me money and Made GU a household name, was Casey (Calvary) at the bat !

Gentle Giants Jean Claude Lefevre (france), Hans Albertsson (sweden) & George Trontzos (greece) were memorable, too. And Jerry Vermillion.

There were many great Zags.

We were lucky to have seen a few.

But only one is a shoo in for the Hall of Fame. He's already been named among the top 50 in the history of the game.