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View Full Version : Athon's Top 25. Oct 5 , 2018



MDABE80
10-12-2018, 12:54 PM
https://athlonsports.com/college-basketball/college-basketball-top-25-2018-19

Zags at 4 and a FF pick. Kansas, Kentucky and Duke also predicted for a FF berth. Wouldn't THAT be nice!!!

Zagceo
10-12-2018, 01:20 PM
I'm thinking Josh might play with a little chip on his shoulder if he sees articles like this

Josh a starter on a championship team that was 90 sec from a NATTY and gets no mention in this article.

jazzdelmar
10-12-2018, 03:30 PM
I'm thinking Josh might play with a little chip on his shoulder if he sees articles like this

Josh a starter on a championship team that was 90 sec from a NATTY and gets no mention in this article.

Josh has enough shoulder issues. I’d rather see him play with the joy and abandon he had before Georgia mugged him.

ZagWhoShotLibertyValance
10-12-2018, 06:00 PM
Josh has enough shoulder issues. I’d rather see him play with the joy and abandon he had before Georgia mugged him.

yup, it totally changed his game. one of my favorite posts of yours was prior to Josh's sophomore season, where you were waxing eloquent about Josh and your expectations for his career. Its weird how people only see your critiques of him but have not understood how much of a genuine upbeat hot-to-trot fan you were before the long term psychological impact of his injury became apparent. The reason I remember this is how I agreed with you so much-- But, yeah, what a phrase--joy and abandon. That is what I remember about him as a frosh.

Of course, kick a guy in his face and he changes :-)

He is one of the best PGs in the nation-- but a different player than he was.

MickMick
10-12-2018, 07:09 PM
I find the upside of this team really hard to gauge.

Like others, I believe they are very capable of reaching the final four. On the other hand, I think back to how Florida State dominated the Zags last year by being defensively disruptive with length/athelticism and basically destroying the Zags in transition.

I don't buy into the argument that Tillie was missing and that is the sole reason why they lost. I believe Florida State would have been as much of an athletic mismatch for him, as they were for the rest of the Zag team. The only Zag player that could remotely matchup physically was Rui. Otherwise it was a length/athletic mismatch.

What is it that could enable this squad to beat last season's Florida State? What is strikingly different about this Zag team from last year? I would say it is based on two things:

1) The addition of Clarke and how well he fits in. Clarke could have matched up physically against that Seminole squad.

2) The level of improvement/consitency of Rui and Norvell from last March until now.

I believe that Tillie and Perkins will play at basically the same level as last season. That isn't necessarily a criticism as they were both very productive when considering the season as a whole.

raise the zag
10-12-2018, 07:30 PM
The only Zag player that could remotely matchup physically was Rui. Otherwise it was a length/athletic mismatch.

I agree yet our gameplan vs FSU was awful and our Coaches admitted we didn't employ the best strategy.

We tried to run with them. An 11 deep team who ranked 2nd in transition offense. Played right into their hands of turnovers and isolation ball.

The moment we slowed it down, played possession by possession basketball, we made a dent. We countered their athleticism.

Tillie's bouncy athleticism would have made a huge difference. He pulls an extra 6'11" big away from the hoop on offensive sets, forced to guard him. Not to mention his natural ability for volleyball tip ins and helping defend.

It didn't help we were ice cold from 3, our 'we can run too' mentality worked against us, we lost a starting post player minutes before too off, forcing Rui to force it, & leaving J3 all alone in the paint & on the boards (he held his own on the boards).

Zagdawg
10-12-2018, 07:40 PM
Gonzaga Guru Retweeted

Mike Schmitz

Verified account

@Mike_Schmitz
Oct 11
More
In Spokane to watch a loaded Gonzaga team. First live look at Rui Hachimura since last season. The 6-8 Japanese forward is coming off a strong summer with the national team. Zach Norvell and Killian Tillie also in line for big years. Freshman big Filip Petrusev also one to watch.

MDABE80
10-12-2018, 11:32 PM
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-10-08/kentucky-no-1-andy-katzs-preseason-power-36-college

From Oct 10. He likes Kentucky Kansas, and Gonzaga.

Reborn
10-13-2018, 03:42 AM
I believe Tillie's absence hurt the Zags a lot, but I think I've talked enough about that already. How can this team be better than last year. Clarke is a good place to start. He will be a force inside, and bring the kind of defense in the paint that we didn't have last year. Perkins Will be better. So will Rui. And let's not forget Petrusive. I really like this kid. He's going to surprise many people.

jazzdelmar
10-13-2018, 04:00 AM
Gonzaga Guru Retweeted

Mike Schmitz

Verified account

@Mike_Schmitz
Oct 11
More
In Spokane to watch a loaded Gonzaga team. First live look at Rui Hachimura since last season. The 6-8 Japanese forward is coming off a strong summer with the national team. Zach Norvell and Killian Tillie also in line for big years. Freshman big Filip Petrusev also one to watch.


Best 3d baseman ever, Michael Jack Schmidt. No? Not him? ;)

jazzdelmar
10-13-2018, 04:03 AM
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-10-08/kentucky-no-1-andy-katzs-preseason-power-36-college

From Oct 10. He likes Kentucky Kansas, and Gonzaga.


Katz don’t kount. When it comes to the Zags, his views need to be taken with all the salt in the Sea of Galilee.

bigblahla
10-13-2018, 05:33 AM
Katz don’t kount. When it comes to the Zags, his views need to be taken with all the salt in the Sea of Galilee.

If that is the case then not a single opinion on this board counts either... we're all homers to one degree or another.... on this one Jazz we disagree.... but that's okay life would be boring if we all thought the same.... the season can't get here fast enough...

Just my opinion...

Go!! Zags!!!

jazzdelmar
10-13-2018, 05:37 AM
If that is the case then not a single opinion on this board counts either... we're all homers to one degree or another.... on this one Jazz we disagree.... but that's okay life would be boring if we all thought the same.... the season can't get here fast enough...

Just my opinion...

Go!! Zags!!!

Big diff, Blah. Katz is a purported expert....we are just fans. Homerism becomes us, not him.....

JPtheBeasta
10-13-2018, 07:58 AM
I agree yet our gameplan vs FSU was awful and our Coaches admitted we didn't employ the best strategy.

We tried to run with them. An 11 deep team who ranked 2nd in transition offense. Played right into their hands of turnovers and isolation ball.

The moment we slowed it down, played possession by possession basketball, we made a dent. We countered their athleticism.

Tillie's bouncy athleticism would have made a huge difference. He pulls an extra 6'11" big away from the hoop on offensive sets, forced to guard him. Not to mention his natural ability for volleyball tip ins and helping defend.

It didn't help we were ice cold from 3, our 'we can run too' mentality worked against us, we lost a starting post player minutes before too off, forcing Rui to force it, & leaving J3 all alone in the paint & on the boards (he held his own on the boards).

Just the mental let-down of losing Tillie right before the game was enough to have me worried at the tip. Then I saw our most athletic player on the floor, Rui, have his shots altered by their length. Players like Larsen might have been the answer in that game, because his girth and size might have given their length some problems, but he obviously wasn’t ready to contribute in that way— and is no longer with the team. Knowing Rui, Florida St was a big learning experience and he’ll be ready to go the next he sees length like that.

Zagceo
10-13-2018, 08:30 AM
Josh has enough shoulder issues. I’d rather see him play with the joy and abandon he had before Georgia mugged him.

so true jazz.

Markburn1
10-13-2018, 09:39 AM
You guys really need to listen to Coach Few in his press conference after the game. He makes the point that Florida State's length and athleticism was taken into account before the game and Tillie was a big part of being able to counter that. Few felt one of the turning points in the game was the last two minutes before halftime when he was forced to sit Rui and J3 because of foul trouble. He felt that Tillie being available would have allowed him to play one or both of them without worrying too much about a third foul. Also, he continually refers to missing open shots as a major factor in the game. The box score bears that out. Perkins, Melson and Norvell were a combined 10-36 and 4-17 from three. Few points out that many of those were uncontested shots. They had their chances especially when they closed to four or five points in the second half. They missed several shots, any one of which would have changed the dynamics of the game. It is obvious that Few, while giving credit to Florida State, felt that he had the better team and the game plan to beat Florida State.


I believe, with a full roster, Gonzaga would have beaten FSU seven times out of ten. The Zags were plenty athletic to compete. The season ALWAYS ends up with a loss unless you win the National Championship. Placing so much emphasis on the final game to define "What went wrong???" is a fool's game.


Can the Zags learn from that loss? Absolutely. But, lamenting that they can't compete against "long and athletic" is misguided. Gimme a couple wide open threes that didn't fall and, as Few says, make a couple bunnies at the rim and that game has a different outcome.

MDABE80
10-13-2018, 10:52 AM
Big diff, Blah. Katz is a purported expert....we are just fans. Homerism becomes us, not him.....
The best part is that Katz has several “experts” who agree with him.��

bigblahla
10-13-2018, 11:51 AM
Big diff, Blah. Katz is a purported expert....we are just fans. Homerism becomes us, not him.....

This board is filled with experts.... and none of them have purports ;)

Go!! Zags!!!

sittingon50
10-13-2018, 12:14 PM
This board is filled with experts.... and none of them have purports ;)

Go!! Zags!!!

Wrongo blah. I got one out of a Cracker Jack box just the other day!

MontanaCoyote
10-14-2018, 06:51 AM
I agree yet our gameplan vs FSU was awful and our Coaches admitted we didn't employ the best strategy.

We tried to run with them. An 11 deep team who ranked 2nd in transition offense. Played right into their hands of turnovers and isolation ball.

The moment we slowed it down, played possession by possession basketball, we made a dent. We countered their athleticism.

Tillie's bouncy athleticism would have made a huge difference. He pulls an extra 6'11" big away from the hoop on offensive sets, forced to guard him. Not to mention his natural ability for volleyball tip ins and helping defend.

It didn't help we were ice cold from 3, our 'we can run too' mentality worked against us, we lost a starting post player minutes before too off, forcing Rui to force it, & leaving J3 all alone in the paint & on the boards (he held his own on the boards).

Had the opportunity to talk to a big FSU fan about two weeks ago. His take was that they were at their very best that night against the Zags, that they hadn’t played that good a game all year. Just goes to show how hard it is to get to the Final Four. Anything can happen and probably will.

Ekrub
10-14-2018, 08:44 AM
yup, it totally changed his game. one of my favorite posts of yours was prior to Josh's sophomore season, where you were waxing eloquent about Josh and your expectations for his career. Its weird how people only see your critiques of him but have not understood how much of a genuine upbeat hot-to-trot fan you were before the long term psychological impact of his injury became apparent. The reason I remember this is how I agreed with you so much-- But, yeah, what a phrase--joy and abandon. That is what I remember about him as a frosh.

Of course, kick a guy in his face and he changes :-)

He is one of the best PGs in the nation-- but a different player than he was.

Think his change in play is more of a symptom of being in the mark few system than breaking his jaw. There aren't going to be any white chocolates getting pt on this team, for better or worse

jazzdelmar
10-14-2018, 09:06 AM
Think his change in play is more of a symptom of being in the mark few system than breaking his jaw. There aren't going to be any white chocolates getting pt on this team, for better or worse

Too bad, if thatís accurate. Never thought Iíd see a chucker like Norvell given the greenest of lights. Post Ammo that is.

23dpg
10-14-2018, 09:55 AM
Too bad, if that’s accurate. Never thought I’d see a chucker like Norvell given the greenest of lights. Post Ammo that is.

I think that’s more of a statement of substance over style. Jason Williams would never throw a straight forward pass when a no-look behind the back pass was available. Mark Few does like shooters.

Zagsker
10-14-2018, 04:55 PM
yup, it totally changed his game. one of my favorite posts of yours was prior to Josh's sophomore season, where you were waxing eloquent about Josh and your expectations for his career. Its weird how people only see your critiques of him but have not understood how much of a genuine upbeat hot-to-trot fan you were before the long term psychological impact of his injury became apparent. The reason I remember this is how I agreed with you so much-- But, yeah, what a phrase--joy and abandon. That is what I remember about him as a frosh.

Of course, kick a guy in his face and he changes :-)

He is one of the best PGs in the nation-- but a different player than he was.

Huh?

DixieZag
10-15-2018, 01:52 AM
Huh?

There is a theory that Josh at times plays with just a second of hesitation or doubt since the broken jaw versus Georgia. Obviously we can't objectively determine whether it is true without hearing his views over time, but it would certainly be understandable. I know that I do not appreciate the amount of force delivered in that blow - and how terrifying it must have been, and coming just games into his college season, it would be weird for such a severe blow to the head to not change a player in a subtle way.


I don't know enough basketball to really talk FSU strategy, but I know that the impact on my thoughts going to the jump was that we'd been taken from the team that would dictate the game and determine our own fate, to the team that would need FSU to play badly. And it seemed as though the players and coaches were in shock they'd lost Tills. Again understandable, going against the strange team that was all athletes, low skill, we lose our 2nd best athlete, and the guy who in the WCC couldn't miss.



As for the basis for the FF talk, I like the point about Clarke, but realistically we're so fortunate to hear we won't have a huge drop from J3, it seems unrealistic to expect a big step up. Rui, however, need only improve half as much between year 2-3 as he did last year and we will see a player like we haven't seen since Morrison.

TexasZagFan
10-15-2018, 05:48 AM
There is a theory that Josh at times plays with just a second of hesitation or doubt since the broken jaw versus Georgia. Obviously we can't objectively determine whether it is true without hearing his views over time, but it would certainly be understandable. I know that I do not appreciate the amount of force delivered in that blow - and how terrifying it must have been, and coming just games into his college season, it would be weird for such a severe blow to the head to not change a player in a subtle way.


I don't know enough basketball to really talk FSU strategy, but I know that the impact on my thoughts going to the jump was that we'd been taken from the team that would dictate the game and determine our own fate, to the team that would need FSU to play badly. And it seemed as though the players and coaches were in shock they'd lost Tills. Again understandable, going against the strange team that was all athletes, low skill, we lose our 2nd best athlete, and the guy who in the WCC couldn't miss.



As for the basis for the FF talk, I like the point about Clarke, but realistically we're so fortunate to hear we won't have a huge drop from J3, it seems unrealistic to expect a big step up. Rui, however, need only improve half as much between year 2-3 as he did last year and we will see a player like we haven't seen since Morrison.

My concern with Rui is living up to the preseason hype, i.e. preseason AA team. Personally, I think he'll be fine.

GrizZAG
10-15-2018, 08:18 AM
I know that I do not appreciate the amount of force delivered in that blow - and how terrifying it must have been, and coming just games into his college season, it would be weird for such a severe blow to the head to not change a player in a subtle way.

When we are that age and our bodies are so strong we seem indestructible in our minds. At age 22 I learned the hard way when I tried to use my back to lift a ridiculous amount of weight and blew a disc completely out of my spine. Once a hugely traumatic event like that happens, it does indeed stay in your mind and makes you more careful. 40+ years later I am still probably a tad over-careful.

GonzagasaurusFlex
10-15-2018, 02:06 PM
My concern with Rui is living up to the preseason hype, i.e. preseason AA team. Personally, I think he'll be fine.

I’ve had that thought too....more along the lines of him trying too hard to validate the expectations and forcing things. I think Norvell and Perkins are gonna be superb this year from deep. Just so many weapons that this team’s biggest challenge will be to find that flow where ball moves around and different guys lead the team in scoring on different nights. Rui doesn’t need to score 20+ ppg for this team to be its best, nobody does in fact.

JoeysZag
10-16-2018, 07:40 PM
UW ranked 20. Upset risk December 5th at The Kennel.

MDABE80
10-16-2018, 08:11 PM
Welcome Joey. Yes very true!

White lightning
10-16-2018, 08:19 PM
UW ranked 20. Upset risk December 5th at The Kennel.I brought this up earlier. Washington is going to be much improved. With so many tough matchups this season its going to be tough for the zags to take a breath. A lot of forum member scoff at Washington and the weakness of the pack 12. With coach Hopkins, in his second year I believe, and 4 very athletic returning starters who have honed the "Syracuse" 2-3 zone I think it will be a tough game. A perfect non comferance game playing against a zone d team will pay dividends in March. Zags by 10 in a low scoring close till the end game.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Idahomie
10-16-2018, 08:50 PM
Katz donít kount. When it comes to the Zags, his views need to be taken with all the salt in the Sea of Galilee.

Well, in that case, we should be taking Katz's opinion as Gospel or "Good News", because the Sea of Galilee is a freshwater lake.

jazzdelmar
10-17-2018, 03:33 AM
Well, in that case, we should be taking Katz's opinion as Gospel or "Good News", because the Sea of Galilee is a freshwater lake.

Praise the lord, thank you for that correction. How about the Salton Sea? :)

LongIslandZagFan
10-17-2018, 04:37 AM
Think you are shooting for the Dead Sea... it has the most salt.

TexasZagFan
10-17-2018, 05:04 AM
Think you are shooting for the Dead Sea... it has the most salt.

I hear that Moraga Reservoir has become more salty over the past 15 years or so. :lmao:

jazzdelmar
10-17-2018, 05:14 AM
Think you are shooting for the Dead Sea... it has the most salt.

Exactly right. Thx Guyland.

JPtheBeasta
10-17-2018, 05:44 AM
If pundits decided who wins games I would be more worried.

LongIslandZagFan
10-17-2018, 07:17 AM
I hear that Moraga Reservoir has become more salty over the past 15 years or so. :lmao:

http://memecrunch.com/meme/BH5FH/well-played-sir/image.gif

billyberu
10-17-2018, 07:57 AM
I hear that Moraga Reservoir has become more salty over the past 15 years or so. :lmao:Let us drink from the chalice. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181017/568d84904e6b6374ddd2619491702e71.gif

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

thespywhozaggedme
10-17-2018, 08:08 AM
I hear that Moraga Reservoir has become more salty over the past 15 years or so. :lmao:

You sir win the internet for today!

:000tens:

sittingon50
10-17-2018, 11:54 AM
Let us drink from the chalice. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181017/568d84904e6b6374ddd2619491702e71.gif

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

billy, you're freaking me out!!

CDC84
10-18-2018, 10:32 AM
You guys really need to listen to Coach Few in his press conference after the game. He makes the point that Florida State's length and athleticism was taken into account before the game and Tillie was a big part of being able to counter that. Few felt one of the turning points in the game was the last two minutes before halftime when he was forced to sit Rui and J3 because of foul trouble. He felt that Tillie being available would have allowed him to play one or both of them without worrying too much about a third foul. Also, he continually refers to missing open shots as a major factor in the game. The box score bears that out. Perkins, Melson and Norvell were a combined 10-36 and 4-17 from three. Few points out that many of those were uncontested shots. They had their chances especially when they closed to four or five points in the second half. They missed several shots, any one of which would have changed the dynamics of the game. It is obvious that Few, while giving credit to Florida State, felt that he had the better team and the game plan to beat Florida State.


I believe, with a full roster, Gonzaga would have beaten FSU seven times out of ten. The Zags were plenty athletic to compete. The season ALWAYS ends up with a loss unless you win the National Championship. Placing so much emphasis on the final game to define "What went wrong???" is a fool's game.


Can the Zags learn from that loss? Absolutely. But, lamenting that they can't compete against "long and athletic" is misguided. Gimme a couple wide open threes that didn't fall and, as Few says, make a couple bunnies at the rim and that game has a different outcome.

Excellent point. It was also the "shock" of losing Tillie just moments before the game. It wasn't as if they didn't know if he was or wasn't going to play, and the players had to prepare for either scenario. It was a freak thing that happened just before tip time. It was a situation that was really hard for the guys and the staff to deal with.

Florida State was also not all that great of a team. I think having Tillie, at worst, makes the game way more competitive.

Zagceo
10-22-2018, 06:49 AM
Nevada is #5 Washington #20

Scrimmages have consequences