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caldwellzag
10-01-2018, 09:35 AM
https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/1046813266431893505

TexasZagFan
10-01-2018, 09:47 AM
Creighton? DePaul? Two head scratchers.

caldwellzag
10-01-2018, 09:49 AM
Yeah I was a little shocked there!

willandi
10-01-2018, 10:10 AM
May come up, not necessarily on the list

Zagceo
10-01-2018, 12:01 PM
University of Oregon has $25 BILLION dollar sugar daddy.... who's surprised they made the list?

soccerdud
10-01-2018, 12:24 PM
University of Oregon has $25 BILLION dollar sugar daddy.... who's surprised they made the list?

that's interesting, because it would be the first i've heard of any nike involvement. even if this doesn't mean that nike is currently part of the investigation, i can't imagine that they'll stay out of it very long-- and it could begin with something as simple as catching a handler on wiretap saying "oregon is looking at this kid, too."

Pleasant Peninsula
10-01-2018, 01:28 PM
that's interesting, because it would be the first i've heard of any nike involvement. even if this doesn't mean that nike is currently part of the investigation, i can't imagine that they'll stay out of it very long-- and it could begin with something as simple as catching a handler on wiretap saying "oregon is looking at this kid, too."

Bol Bol got paid paid to go to go quack quack.

/wild ass speculation

Bogozags
10-01-2018, 02:44 PM
I just found this on Espn.go.com and thought it was an interesting tidbit of their article...

"Balsa Koprivica: Koprivica, a 7-foot center and son of former Serbian pro player Slavisa Koprivica, was born in Belgrade and moved to the U.S. with his mother in 2015. He has attended three high schools since arriving in Florida, most recently Montverde Academy. He is ranked 42nd in the 2019 ESPN Top 100. He is considering Gonzaga, Baylor and Florida State, among other schools."

Pleasant Peninsula
10-01-2018, 03:01 PM
I just found this on Espn.go.com and thought it was an interesting tidbit of their article...

"Balsa Koprivica: Koprivica, a 7-foot center and son of former Serbian pro player Slavisa Koprivica, was born in Belgrade and moved to the U.S. with his mother in 2015. He has attended three high schools since arriving in Florida, most recently Montverde Academy. He is ranked 42nd in the 2019 ESPN Top 100. He is considering Gonzaga, Baylor and Florida State, among other schools."

Interesting. Does this have anything to do with the topic at hand?

TheBunnieRancher
10-01-2018, 03:28 PM
I believe that Balsa was linked to this scandal with one of the Florida schools. Gonzaga seems to be around a number of kids that are being recruited by other schools that are using questionable tactics.

doctorzag
10-01-2018, 03:28 PM
Surprised San Diego state is not mentioned.

Bogozags
10-01-2018, 04:50 PM
Interesting. Does this have anything to do with the topic at hand?

I assume so as I found this tidbit on ESPN where this was part of an article discussing this topic

jazzdelmar
10-01-2018, 05:31 PM
Surprised San Diego state is not mentioned.

Me, too. I’m assuming Fisher took the dirty laundry with him. Several sacks of it.

bdmiller7
10-01-2018, 06:16 PM
I assume so as I found this tidbit on ESPN where this was part of an article discussing this topic

I read that article too. It names the schools, coaches, agents, and players linked to this FBI investigation, Balsa is on that list. Another article today on ESPN made it sound like he was considering skipping college and turning pro. I'm sure he could get on a Euro team easy enough.

bartruff1
10-01-2018, 06:44 PM
No way I would ever get on that jury.....based upon what has been in the media, this is a tempest in a teapot with the criminalization of the NCAA Rule Book......What North Carolina did and got away with was the most shameful incident I have ever heard of..... it is one thing for a fan or a coach or a player or a agent to have broken the NCAA Rules, it is a completely different thing for a University to engage in academic fraud for years...

willandi
10-01-2018, 07:03 PM
No way I would ever get on that jury.....based upon what has been in the media, this is a tempest in a teapot with the criminalization of the NCAA Rule Book......What North Carolina did and got away with was the most shameful incident I have ever heard of..... it is one thing for a fan or a coach or a player or a agent to have broken the NCAA Rules, it is a completely different thing for a University to engage in academic fraud for years...

And for the NCAA to refuse to get involved!

kitzbuel
10-01-2018, 07:07 PM
Nike EYBL offices were raided by the FBI last year about the same time UA was.
that's interesting, because it would be the first i've heard of any nike involvement. even if this doesn't mean that nike is currently part of the investigation, i can't imagine that they'll stay out of it very long-- and it could begin with something as simple as catching a handler on wiretap saying "oregon is looking at this kid, too."

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

soccerdud
10-01-2018, 10:16 PM
Nike EYBL offices were raided by the FBI last year about the same time UA was.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

oh yeah? i musta missed that. thanks for the heads up.

caldwellzag
10-02-2018, 05:56 AM
More names/schools to add to the list mentioned yesterday.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1046816747695886342

kitzbuel
10-02-2018, 08:34 AM
oh yeah? i musta missed that. thanks for the heads up.Sorry, it wasn't a raid, it was subpoenas.

https://usatodayhss.com/2017/report-nike-eybl-employees-subpoenaed-by-fbi-as-amateur-basketball-scandal-escalates

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

caldwellzag
10-02-2018, 09:07 AM
More interesting information.

https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1047169938673291267

Zagceo
10-02-2018, 09:16 AM
More interesting information.

https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1047169938673291267


The term "sneakers" is most commonly used in the Northeastern United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeastern_United_States) and South Florida (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Florida).[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakers#cite_note-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakers#cite_note-2) It is also used in North Carolina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina) and parts of Canada (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada).

someone should update the wiki site for "sneakers"...add Eugene

Kong-Kool-Aid
10-02-2018, 09:17 AM
https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/1047165520523546624

"During opening statement this morning, Jim Gattto's atty promised evidence would show Oregon offered "an atronomical amount of money" to recruit Brian Bowen to play for the Ducks. The $100,000 deal to attend Louisville was to "level the playing field.""

jazzdelmar
10-02-2018, 09:57 AM
https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/1047165520523546624

"During opening statement this morning, Jim Gattto's atty promised evidence would show Oregon offered "an atronomical amount of money" to recruit Brian Bowen to play for the Ducks. The $100,000 deal to attend Louisville was to "level the playing field.""

Phenomenal. Bye bye Dana.

maynard g krebs
10-02-2018, 11:09 AM
Bol Bol got paid paid to go to go quack quack.

/wild ass speculation

His father, Manute, donated most of his NBA fortune to building hospitals in Sudan. Bol idolizes his father and wants to carry on his work.

I suppose anything's possible. But it should be noted that Bol was shown the way the Ducks used Chris Boucher on the perimeter as the blueprint for how he'd play. And it should be noted that there are 3 Ducks from the final 4 team that are in the NBA that didn't project there out of HS, and all doing well. From a basketball point of view, it's a good fit and probably the best system he could find for his talents.

IMO wild ass speculation is a good thing to avoid. Maybe the Ducks are as crooked as Zona, USC et al; time will tell, but there's no reason to say bad things about this kid.

GorgeZag
10-02-2018, 11:20 AM
https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/1047165520523546624

"During opening statement this morning, Jim Gattto's atty promised evidence would show Oregon offered "an atronomical amount of money" to recruit Brian Bowen to play for the Ducks. The $100,000 deal to attend Louisville was to "level the playing field.""


If it was such a large amount of money, why didn't he take it and sign with them. Also weird that Altman nor anyone associated with Oregon was on the list of names of coaches being looked at. Very interesting.

Also interesting is the continued hatred and jealousy of Oregon on this board. Don't we have bigger fish to fry?

DixieZag
10-02-2018, 11:30 AM
His father, Manute, donated most of his NBA fortune to building hospitals in Sudan. Bol idolizes his father and wants to carry on his work.

I suppose anything's possible. But it should be noted that Bol was shown the way the Ducks used Chris Boucher on the perimeter as the blueprint for how he'd play. And it should be noted that there are 3 Ducks from the final 4 team that are in the NBA that didn't project there out of HS, and all doing well. From a basketball point of view, it's a good fit and probably the best system he could find for his talents.

IMO wild ass speculation is a good thing to avoid. Maybe the Ducks are as crooked as Zona, USC et al; time will tell, but there's no reason to say bad things about this kid.

I do agree that one needs to guard against speculation, and it wouldn't be the first time that an attorney over promised in an opening statement. And I don't consider the kids as "guilty" if they did accept money. They are legally an infant at 17, couldn't sign a binding contract if they tried (mostly) so it's not like I think any of it should be held against the kid personally, some are just feeding families.

Still, opening argument is limited to what one believes they can prove so it seems likely more than wild speculation at this point.

As you said, wait and see, though.

maynard g krebs
10-02-2018, 11:36 AM
Still, opening argument is limited to what one believes they can prove so it seems likely more than wild speculation at this point.



The allegation was about Bowen, who was openly being shopped around by his father. The wild speculation reference by Pleasant was about Bol, about whom there have been no allegations. The latter is all I was addressing.

Zagceo
10-02-2018, 11:46 AM
If it was such a large amount of money, why didn't he take it and sign with them. Also weird that Altman nor anyone associated with Oregon was on the list of names of coaches being looked at. Very interesting.

Also interesting is the continued hatred and jealousy of Oregon on this board. Don't we have bigger fish to fry?

OREGON..... headquarters of NIKE and US headquarters of ADIDAS

could get extra special attention in this trial

JPtheBeasta
10-02-2018, 11:50 AM
If it was such a large amount of money, why didn't he take it and sign with them. Also weird that Altman nor anyone associated with Oregon was on the list of names of coaches being looked at. Very interesting.

Also interesting is the continued hatred and jealousy of Oregon on this board. Don't we have bigger fish to fry?

I have no personal animus toward Oregon but this story has intrigue because they routinely have been on recruits that GU was also interested in. They are also the most immediate competition for recruits in the region and if players were paid to play there, that is interesting information to me.

jazzdelmar
10-02-2018, 11:59 AM
I have no personal animus toward Oregon but this story has intrigue because they routinely have been on recruits that GU was also interested in. They are also the most immediate competition for recruits in the region and if players were paid to play there, that is interesting information to me.

Right on. Ducks are invariably leading contender for top rung domestic recruits. If they’re cheating, that’s news. Who are bigger fry, btw?

DixieZag
10-02-2018, 12:11 PM
The allegation was about Bowen, who was openly being shopped around by his father. The wild speculation reference by Pleasant was about Bol, about whom there have been no allegations. The latter is all I was addressing.

My mistake, I see now your distinction. Thank you.

Zagceo
10-02-2018, 03:16 PM
rules vs laws


In her opening statement, Donnelly emphasized that breaking NCAA rules is not necessarily breaking federal law.

"The NCAA rules are the not the laws of the country," she said. "It's like a kids' after-school soccer league, if that soccer league also brought in $1 billion a year. These aren't the laws. They're the equivalent of the rules in your apartment building. If you break them, you haven't broken the law. It is not against the law to violate NCAA rules."
Donnelly told the jury that Gatto thought of the schemes as a "win-win-win" scenario that benefited all three parties involved: the universities, by getting top-ranked players; Adidas, by getting top players at Adidas-sponsored schools; and the players and families, by getting money to tide them over until they could play professionally.

maynard g krebs
10-02-2018, 05:15 PM
Right on. Ducks are invariably leading contender for top rung domestic recruits. If they’re cheating, that’s news. Who are bigger fry, btw?

As far as I can remember, Richardson is the only current Duck that even drew a mention on this board as a potential recruit. I doubt the Zags would be ranked a whole lot higher at this point if the Ducks were suddenly to collapse. Oregon's recent success hasn't harmed the Zags in the least, as far as I can tell. In fact, the Zags have risen to their highest level at precisely the same time that Oregon has made their run.

Agree with Gorge Zag on this. Much ado about nothing.

Zagdawg
10-02-2018, 07:46 PM
Bombshells in opening statements of college basketball corruption trial

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/bombshells-in-opening-statements-of-college-basketball-corruption-trial/ar-BBNQKZj?li=BBnb7Kz

willandi
10-02-2018, 09:10 PM
rules vs laws

I am not an attorney, but it does seem to me that the coaches that are complicit have indeed broken state laws. Part of their contracts, I am sure, deal with honesty etc...but in legalese. The ones making the payments are, at the very least, aiding and abetting, and, if they were the ones that initiated the offers, are complicit in suborning the breaking of state laws.
There also would be the issue of crossing state lines in the commission of those crimes, even if they were only crimes at the state level.
Throw in the betting on games, and it does appear to draw the feds in.


Just my opinion.

Zagdawg
10-02-2018, 09:13 PM
Jeff Goodman

Verified account

@GoodmanHoops
12h12 hours ago
More Jeff Goodman Retweeted Jeff Goodman
Bowen’s father made a deal and won’t be prosecuted in exchange for his agreement to testify.



Jeff Goodman

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@GoodmanHoops
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Brian Bowen’s father will be called as a witness by the government in the case. TJ Gassnola — referred to as Gatto’s right-hand man — and financial advisor Munish Sood will also be called to testify over the next few weeks.

Zagceo
10-03-2018, 03:32 AM
How many are really surprised?

Sounds like open bidding wars among programs for kids. Everybody knew it was going on everybody.

jazzdelmar
10-03-2018, 04:30 AM
As far as I can remember, Richardson is the only current Duck that even drew a mention on this board as a potential recruit. I doubt the Zags would be ranked a whole lot higher at this point if the Ducks were suddenly to collapse. Oregon's recent success hasn't harmed the Zags in the least, as far as I can tell. In fact, the Zags have risen to their highest level at precisely the same time that Oregon has made their run.

Agree with Gorge Zag on this. Much ado about nothing.

How about the underperforming point guard?

jazzdelmar
10-03-2018, 04:32 AM
Death knell for Seannie?

JPtheBeasta
10-03-2018, 08:01 AM
How about the underperforming point guard?

I don’t have a great memory for names, but for a few months Oregon seemingly offered everybody GU offered for a while. It was more than just one guy, and it was somewhat of a running joke around here.

Zagceo
10-03-2018, 08:02 AM
if lawyers can prove NCAA knew it was going on... complicit

nobody gets fired ..too big to fail

Zagdawg
10-03-2018, 08:15 AM
Dan Wetzel

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@DanWetzel
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During secret recording played in court today, Christian Dawkins and Merl Code both described Oregon's offer to Brian Bowen to sign there as "astronomical" but no details provided. Bowen was set to go to Oregon but Code said, "let me work the phones and get something done."

Zagdawg
10-03-2018, 08:16 AM
Dan Wetzel

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@DanWetzel
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Financial planner Munish Sood testified about involvement with many players, most notable by NCAA rules standards a $30,000 loan to an associate of Markelle Fultz and an undisclosed payment amount to associate of Kyle Kuzma while at Utah.

caldwellzag
10-03-2018, 08:19 AM
More names coming up today by Hawkins. Have to say Oregon is written all over these names.

https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1047520341411684352

Zagdawg
10-03-2018, 08:26 AM
James Gatto didn't break law in orchestrating payments to recruits, attorneys say

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24872282/former-adidas-executive-james-gatto-break-law-orchestrating-payments-recruits-attorneys-say

Zagdawg
10-03-2018, 08:28 AM
Jeff Borzello

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To me, most interesting part of this morning’s testimony was a video recording of Merl Code discussing Adidas business:
- “We’re not going to do a whole lot to help Tulsa.”
- “If we lose East Carolina . . . so what?”
- “If I let my kid go to Kentucky, I’m not getting him back.”

Zagdawg
10-03-2018, 08:30 AM
Former Adidas exec on trial to claim he broke NCAA rules, not laws, and that's bad news for lots of college basketball teams


https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/former-adidas-exec-on-trial-to-claim-he-broke-ncaa-rules-not-laws-and-thats-bad-news-for-lots-of-college-basketball-teams/

jazzdelmar
10-03-2018, 08:30 AM
More names coming up today by Hawkins. Have to say Oregon is written all over these names.

https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1047520341411684352

Quack, quack, the duck is dead

Zagdawg
10-03-2018, 08:36 AM
Jeff Borzello

Verified account

@jeffborzello
21m21 minutes ago
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Christian Dawkins had a list of college players he was “actively involved with,” including:
- Robert Williams
- Mitchell Robinson
- Collin Sexton
- Brian Bowen
- Troy Brown
- Landry Shamet
- Rawle Alkins
- DeAnthony Melton
- Chimezie Metu

Jeff Borzello

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24m24 minutes ago
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Names given this a.m. by financier Munish Sood:
- Malik Beasley
- Isaiah Whitehead
- Edmond Sumner
- Davon Reed

All four received loans post-draft.

- Kyle Kuzma allegedly had money paid to his handler while in college
- Markelle Fultz allegedly had $30K paid to his trainer

basketballzag
10-03-2018, 08:57 AM
There are the relevant names that were listed in the NYC trial

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DogOItUWwAABx98.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DogOKeOW0AAKY85.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DogO7_KX4AA1xNo.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DogONM1W0AEuL0f.jpg


Oregon's statement after they were linked in federal court.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DojQt_mXUAADxYM.jpg

‘That’s the ultimate objective. You’re trying to push those kids to your affiliated schools. For instance, Indiana, Kansas, Arizona State, Miami are all Adidas schools. So if I could have those kids in my umbrela at the grassroots level and I can funnel those kids to my schools‘...I win at the grassroots level, my colleges win and then hopefully I can sign them as pros. That’s a quick synopsis of how it works.’ -Merl Code on FBI videotape

maynard g krebs
10-03-2018, 11:39 AM
How about the underperforming point guard?

Are you talking about Pritchard? Underperforming would hardly apply. Started as a true fr on a final 4 team, beating out the incumbent upperclassman from an elite 8 team who then transferred. A little surprising to me, but one of the mags (Lindy or Athlon?) had him as preseason Pac POY. Pretty much unanimous all league pick though.
Team did poorly by their standards, not Pritchard himself. Look at his #'s. Didn't get much positive out of the Browns.

I didn't think the Zags were finalists for him anyway, though I don't really know. Committed to Okie before Altman flipped him. That's why I didn't mention him.

And as far as I know, Clarke is the only current Zag who the Ducks recruited (Oregonian/247 both reported they backed off in favor when they lined up the current fr bigs, but who knows?)

IMO there's some perception bias here. The head to head recruiting isn't nearly as much as some imply, and it certainly isn't hurting either.

maynard g krebs
10-03-2018, 11:45 AM
I don’t have a great memory for names, but for a few months Oregon seemingly offered everybody GU offered for a while. It was more than just one guy, and it was somewhat of a running joke around here.

Seemingly would be the operative word here. They didn't offer Tillie, Hachimura, Perkins, Norvell, Petrusev, Larson, Ayayi, Foster, Kispert, Ravet, Watson, or the Lithuanian kid. Not sure if they talked to Crandall but they were full there when he decided to trans. And reportedly (see above) cooled on Clarke when they signed this yr's frosh.

maynard g krebs
10-03-2018, 11:47 AM
More names coming up today by Hawkins. Have to say Oregon is written all over these names.

https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1047520341411684352

Which besides Troy Brown?

MDABE80
10-03-2018, 11:50 AM
It's a lot of depositions coming up. This could go on for a long time. I wonder if these people could focus on the season when there's a potential axe ready to fall. It's good to know none of this involves us. College basketball is in for an awakening. Best to clean things up if they can...….I'm not sure it's possible. I do think innocent people will be drawn into this web of trouble

caldwellzag
10-03-2018, 11:51 AM
Which besides Troy Brown?

That is the main one, but Oregon has come up multiple times in the opening statements, that is more what I was referring to, sorry for the confusion.

jazzdelmar
10-03-2018, 12:14 PM
That is the main one, but Oregon has come up multiple times in the opening statements, that is more what I was referring to, sorry for the confusion.

Don’t apologize. Our Duck fan is whistling thru the graveyard. And in that vein, where is seacatfan?

Zagceo
10-03-2018, 12:22 PM
the hypocrisy....we have coaches making millions from shoe companies...we have Universities making even more

and yet charges are for defrauding Universities.

maynard g krebs
10-03-2018, 01:03 PM
Our Duck fan is whistling thru the graveyard.

How so? Please cite a specific quote. I'm just pointing out facts and questioning hyperbole, imo at least.

Thanks.

I'd just add that at this point, it's interesting that the allegations v Oregon have come from those accused by the FBI, and that Oregon wasn't mentioned in the actual investigation. Guess we'll see. But as Gorgezag pointed out, the schadenfreude here is unbecoming. IMO.

jazzdelmar
10-03-2018, 01:19 PM
How so? Please cite a specific quote. I'm just pointing out facts and questioning hyperbole, imo at least.

Thanks.

I'd just add that at this point, it's interesting that the allegations v Oregon have come from those accused by the FBI, and that Oregon wasn't mentioned in the actual investigation. Guess we'll see. But as Gorgezag pointed out, the schadenfreude here is unbecoming. IMO.

Definition of schadenfreude is pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune. I don’t think this is misfortune, like an injury to a top player. No Zag fan would relish that with any team. No, this is potential criminality or at least sacntionable action by a program. Big difference. IMO. As you rightly point out, we shall see.

JPtheBeasta
10-03-2018, 02:58 PM
Seemingly would be the operative word here. They didn't offer Tillie, Hachimura, Perkins, Norvell, Petrusev, Larson, Ayayi, Foster, Kispert, Ravet, Watson, or the Lithuanian kid. Not sure if they talked to Crandall but they were full there when he decided to trans. And reportedly (see above) cooled on Clarke when they signed this yr's frosh.

Players both teams offered:
Devante Doutrive, Will Richardson, Brandon Williams, Jordan Brown, Kamaka Hepa, David Singleton, Taeshon Cherry

Granted, Oregon offers a lot of players compared to GU, and most of the names above went elsewhere, but both teams have shown interest in the same players. They did acquire the services of Will Richardson, a prospectt that could have provided much needed PG depth at GU This all corroborates the intentionally hyperbolic statement earlier. There is no doubt in my mind that Oregon is in real competition with GU for recruits.

seacatfan
10-03-2018, 03:00 PM
Don’t apologize. Our Duck fan is whistling thru the graveyard. And in that vein, where is seacatfan?

Oh man. I've been minding my own business, staying out of the mens hoops thread. Nothing I can do but wait for the dust to settle. Maybe Arizona is going down big time. Looks like they won't be alone. Maybe if everybody is guilty then nobody is guilty? Or burn the whole thing to the ground and quit bothering with NCAA athletics entirely. I think most people have known for quite a while that there's very little "amateur" about big time college athletics.

You know what's interesting that I just thought of? This is all centered around hoops. Nothing similar is happening in football though right? I think football is too much of a sacred cow, the NCAA can't afford to have that being poked at.

Grand Valley Zag
10-03-2018, 03:11 PM
Players both teams offered:
Devante Doutrive, Will Richardson, Brandon Williams, Jordan Brown, Kamaka Hepa, David Singleton, Taeshon Cherry

Granted, Oregon offers a lot of players compared to GU, and most of the names above went elsewhere, but both teams have shown interest in the same players. They did acquire the services of Will Richardson, a prospectt that could have provided much needed PG depth at GU This all corroborates the intentionally hyperbolic statement earlier. There is no doubt in my mind that Oregon is in real competition with GU for recruits.

I thought I heard somewhere that we offered Miles Norris too.

soccerdud
10-03-2018, 03:45 PM
not that it much matters, but lots of us were really interested in kendall small, and iirc i think the staff was too. was wondering if that's the under-performing pg jazz referenced earlier (currently playing for pacific).

JPtheBeasta
10-03-2018, 04:01 PM
I thought I heard somewhere that we offered Miles Norris too.

It’s very possible. I by no means have encyclopedic knowledge of this stuff and the list above was taken from the offers lists on 247sports. (I only remembered Brandon Williams and Will Richardson specifically but recalled that there were others).

jazzdelmar
10-03-2018, 04:39 PM
Oh man. I've been minding my own business, staying out of the mens hoops thread. Nothing I can do but wait for the dust to settle. Maybe Arizona is going down big time. Looks like they won't be alone. Maybe if everybody is guilty then nobody is guilty? Or burn the whole thing to the ground and quit bothering with NCAA athletics entirely. I think most people have known for quite a while that there's very little "amateur" about big time college athletics.

You know what's interesting that I just thought of? This is all centered around hoops. Nothing similar is happening in football though right? I think football is too much of a sacred cow, the NCAA can't afford to have that being poked at.

You’re always welcome here, Sea. Hang in there.

jazzdelmar
10-03-2018, 04:39 PM
Players both teams offered:
Devante Doutrive, Will Richardson, Brandon Williams, Jordan Brown, Kamaka Hepa, David Singleton, Taeshon Cherry

Granted, Oregon offers a lot of players compared to GU, and most of the names above went elsewhere, but both teams have shown interest in the same players. They did acquire the services of Will Richardson, a prospectt that could have provided much needed PG depth at GU This all corroborates the intentionally hyperbolic statement earlier. There is no doubt in my mind that Oregon is in real competition with GU for recruits.

Brilliant, JP. FACTS are hard to refute.

GorgeZag
10-03-2018, 05:15 PM
I think we were interested in Mike Moser too but that was a while ago. Haven't seen Altman or any assiastant on the list of names yet. Of course Adidas is going to try to take Nike down with them. I'm not going to pretend that players don't get paid at this high level. My opinion is that Oregon going down doesn't do a whole lot for us at this point, I'd argue that Arizona would have more impact. I'm more focused on beating the Dukes and Unc of the world than the ducks.

bartruff1
10-03-2018, 07:59 PM
Adidas and Nike are multi billion dollar global companies....they aren't going down...I can't see how paying coaches or agents or teams or even players or their relatives/friends is a crime …...it is just business...the recipients of those payment might have violated a NCAA rule...

ZagzKrak
10-03-2018, 08:13 PM
Adidas and Nike are multi billion dollar global companies....they aren't going down...I can't see how paying coaches or agents or teams or even players or their relatives/friends is a crime …...it is just business...the recipients of those payment might have violated a NCAA rule...

I'm sure it comes down to Federal Tax Laws...hard to imagine this money being reported in any legal way.

maynard g krebs
10-03-2018, 09:53 PM
Brilliant, JP. FACTS are hard to refute.

Each of the guys he listed could have gone to any of a hundred schools. The top 100-150 kids have what, a dozen or 2 dozen offers? It would be too time consuming to do the research, but even a rudimentary understanding of how math works should suggest that this isn't an abnormal number of crossovers between two schools' recruiting lists. There's probably an equal percentage of overlap with UW, or Arizona, or UCLA.

The salient point I took from JP's post is that 5 of the 6 guys listed went elsewhere. Of course the Zags are in real competition with UO for recruits (along with 50 or maybe a hundred other schools), but Zags' recruiting against Oregon is a drop in the ocean in the big picture of recruiting. Interesting too that the prized Brandon Williams chose Zona over the Zags and Ducks at the end, when they were the only ones implicated in the scandal at the time he decided.

maynard g krebs
10-03-2018, 10:01 PM
Definition of schadenfreude is pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune. I don’t think this is misfortune, like an injury to a top player. No Zag fan would relish that with any team. No, this is potential criminality or at least sacntionable action by a program. Big difference. IMO. As you rightly point out, we shall see.

The definition I fould first says "pleasure, joy or self-satisfaction that comes from learning of or witnessing the TROUBLES, FAILURES, OR HUMILIATION of another". By that definition it doesn't look like your distinction fits. I'll stick with what I said.

WallaWallaZag
10-04-2018, 12:42 AM
The definition I fould first says "pleasure, joy or self-satisfaction that comes from learning of or witnessing the TROUBLES, FAILURES, OR HUMILIATION of another". By that definition it doesn't look like your distinction fits. I'll stick with what I said.

i don't know about pleasure or joy, but i think anyone associated with gonzaga (if gu is truly innocent in all this) has plenty reason to be "self-satisfied" with what's going on...makes the recent accomplishments even more impressive.

on another note, oregon is a regional school with similar recent success so why are you surprised posters are interested??? in fact, any damage to any of the pac 12 schools directly benefits gonzaga from a recruiting standpoint...

jazzdelmar
10-04-2018, 03:45 AM
The definition I fould first says "pleasure, joy or self-satisfaction that comes from learning of or witnessing the TROUBLES, FAILURES, OR HUMILIATION of another". By that definition it doesn't look like your distinction fits. I'll stick with what I said.

If the definition fits, ........ BTW you never responded to my response to your comparison of Rui w the Hawk.....

DixieZag
10-04-2018, 06:25 AM
How so? Please cite a specific quote. I'm just pointing out facts and questioning hyperbole, imo at least.

Thanks.

I'd just add that at this point, it's interesting that the allegations v Oregon have come from those accused by the FBI, and that Oregon wasn't mentioned in the actual investigation. Guess we'll see. But as Gorgezag pointed out, the schadenfreude here is unbecoming. IMO.

That is worth noting because I had presumed (and I think most did) that the accusation came from the US Attorney's office in an opening statement. That matters bc a presentation by the government should be fairly tight and responsible. Near always is.

But, it was made by a defense attorney. Not that defense attorneys are bad or anything of the sort, it is just their job to serve their client, not search for truth, and sometimes that means throw mud.

Glad we all now know.

jazzdelmar
10-04-2018, 07:00 AM
That is worth noting because I had presumed (and I think most did) that the accusation came from the US Attorney's office in an opening statement. That matters bc a presentation by the government should be fairly tight and responsible. Near always is.

But, it was made by a defense attorney. Not that defense attorneys are bad or anything of the sort, it is just their job to serve their client, not search for truth, and sometimes that means throw mud.

Glad we all now know.

Duly stipulated. But smoke-fire also applies. And simply being mentioned got the attention of the folks in Eugene.

bballbeachbum
10-04-2018, 07:39 AM
with GU apparently not involved here, and all the distress and consternation over GU recruiting prowess or lack thereof and 'wins' and 'losses' over the years, it's hilarious. GU clearly the top shelf for clean recruiting, something we can all believe in as sports fans and college hoops lovers, and something for all you Alums to cherish in this world of seemingly never ending corruption

jazzdelmar
10-04-2018, 09:44 AM
with GU apparently not involved here, and all the distress and consternation over GU recruiting prowess or lack thereof and 'wins' and 'losses' over the years, it's hilarious. GU clearly the top shelf for clean recruiting, something we can all believe in as sports fans and college hoops lovers, and something for all you Alums to cherish in this world of seemingly never ending corruption

For non-alums, here is one, as well......

maynard g krebs
10-04-2018, 10:01 AM
If the definition fits, ........ BTW you never responded to my response to your comparison of Rui w the Hawk.....

Yeah I did, if you go back and look at the thread. Post #160. To reiterate, I pointed out that I was responding to Vanzagger's comment that the Zags should use Rui like Magic, Bird, Lebron. I said IF we're gonna make superstar comparisons, that Rui was more along the lines of the Hawk or Dr. J. I was referring to style or position, and the fact that I think Rui is more scorer/spectacular athlete than playmaker/facilitator. Not saying he's on the same level, just responding in context of Vanzagger's post.

jazzdelmar
10-04-2018, 10:15 AM
Apologies. I’ve been traveling. Thanks.




Yeah I did, if you go back and look at the thread. Post #160. To reiterate, I pointed out that I was responding to Vanzagger's comment that the Zags should use Rui like Magic, Bird, Lebron. I said IF we're gonna make superstar comparisons, that Rui was more along the lines of the Hawk or Dr. J. I was referring to style or position, and the fact that I think Rui is more scorer/spectacular athlete than playmaker/facilitator. Not saying he's on the same level, just responding in context of Vanzagger's post.

willandi
10-04-2018, 10:18 AM
Apologies. I’ve been traveling. Thanks.

Here in Washington, to quote the old song, you can 'take a trip and never leave the farm'!

maynard g krebs
10-04-2018, 10:37 AM
Duly stipulated. But smoke-fire also applies.

There are smoke blowing machines as well. Water vapor can look like smoke, at least from a distance. Also interesting that in all these cases (Fultz, Kuzma, Dennis Smith etc) there is a specific dollar amount cited, an opposed to the term "astronomical amount". So if Bowen was being shopped to the highest bidder, why would he have turned down the astronomical offer for a paltry 100k from Louisville? For the hookers maybe?

Nothing from the FBI so far about UO. Mud slinging by the atty of one of those actually accused is all there is so far. Anything's possible, and you nor I know if there's anything behind this or not. I'm not saying there isn't. I'm just saying there's nothing substantiated, and the information available to the public so far doesn't preclude the possibility that mud slinging (slander) is all it is.

All there is here so far is Zag board glee over said mud slinging. Until there's something substantiated, that's what the fact is. Minds function best when open.

Zagceo
10-04-2018, 10:51 AM
There are smoke blowing machines as well. Water vapor can look like smoke, at least from a distance. Also interesting that in all these cases (Fultz, Kuzma, Dennis Smith etc) there is a specific dollar amount cited, an opposed to the term "astronomical amount". So if Bowen was being shopped to the highest bidder, why would he have turned down the astronomical offer for a paltry 100k from Louisville? For the hookers maybe?

Nothing from the FBI so far about UO. Mud slinging by the atty of one of those actually accused is all there is so far. Anything's possible, and you nor I know if there's anything behind this or not. I'm not saying there isn't. I'm just saying there's nothing substantiated, and the information available to the public so far doesn't preclude the possibility that mud slinging (slander) is all it is.

All there is here so far is Zag board glee over said mud slinging. Until there's something substantiated, that's what the fact is. Minds function best when open.

sorry to say.......we've jumped that shark tank.

jazzdelmar
10-04-2018, 11:13 AM
sorry to say.......we've jumped that shark tank.

Blame it on Mark Cuban.

thespywhozaggedme
10-04-2018, 12:14 PM
This scandal sure hasn't hurt Arizona. they're cleaning up:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24893831/top-10-prospect-josh-green-australia-commits-arizona

jazzdelmar
10-04-2018, 12:26 PM
This scandal sure hasn't hurt Arizona. they're cleaning up:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24893831/top-10-prospect-josh-green-australia-commits-arizona

And Brandon Williams moves further down the bench.

JPtheBeasta
10-04-2018, 01:03 PM
And Brandon Williams moves further down the bench.

This undermines the narrative I had in my own head that maybe Williams would play in a two PG lineup. I suppose this guy could drop down and play the 3 but Miller usually uses the more prototypical small forward, it seems to me.

ZagNative
10-04-2018, 02:57 PM
Matt Norlander's CBS Sports report about the status of the trial so far: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-corruption-trial-brian-bowens-father-makes-explosive-allegations-against-several-schools/

ZagMan in Philly
10-04-2018, 05:16 PM
Creighton... Wow. Holy Cow!!

willandi
10-04-2018, 05:48 PM
I read that Bowen SR has immunity from prosecution, but I would think that if he doesn't have proof or corroboration, he can still be sued by some of the schools names he is throwing around.

MileHigh
10-04-2018, 07:09 PM
I read that Bowen SR has immunity from prosecution, but I would think that if he doesn't have proof or corroboration, he can still be sued by some of the schools names he is throwing around.

To win a defamation suit the Plaintiff would have to prove that Bowen lied AND those lies caused them some sort of economic harm. Doubt that they could show either in this instance.

willandi
10-04-2018, 07:17 PM
I read that Bowen SR has immunity from prosecution, but I would think that if he doesn't have proof or corroboration, he can still be sued by some of the schools names he is throwing around.


To win a defamation suit the Plaintiff would have to prove that Bowen lied AND those lies caused them some sort of economic harm. Doubt that they could show either in this instance.

Damages could be easy to prove if alumni donated less. If a full investigation were done and no coroborating evidence were found, that seems like it could be enough...but I am not an attorney or a basketball expert. Just a fan that would like to see a level playing field for all.

Martin Centre Mad Man
10-04-2018, 07:27 PM
I read that Bowen SR has immunity from prosecution, but I would think that if he doesn't have proof or corroboration, he can still be sued by some of the schools names he is throwing around.

Litigating a defamation or libel case is rarely a good idea for a plaintiff. They essentially need to affirmatively disprove every false allegation that the defendant has made AND prove that defendant knew or should have known that the information was false AND prove that the false information damaged their reputation in a meaningful way. These cases can be muddy, rumor-mongering slugfests, because smearing the Plaintiff’s good reputation in open court is a great way to disprove that critical element of “harm to reputation.” If these universities want to keep all of these messy allegations in the news cycle for years to come, a defamation case will do that.

GrizZAG
10-04-2018, 08:49 PM
Just a fan that would like to see a level playing field for all.

Couldn't agree more Will.

Many of us avoid watching NBA because it's so about money, endorsement contracts and so on for a bunch of showboat over paid primadonna types. Pro sports is not a level playing field and college sports fans watch NCABB because it is supposed to be level, or at least we thought it was. This is so disappointing to learn what is really going on. Makes Few and Gonzaga a special individual and place that does it the ethical way. It's sickening to see UNC get away with fake classes unscathed while Randy gets busted for next to nothing really. Shameful.

DixieZag
10-05-2018, 02:36 AM
Couldn't agree more Will.

Many of us avoid watching NBA because it's so about money, endorsement contracts and so on for a bunch of showboat over paid primadonna types. Pro sports is not a level playing field and college sports fans watch NCABB because it is supposed to be level, or at least we thought it was. This is so disappointing to learn what is really going on. Makes Few and Gonzaga a special individual and place that does it the ethical way. It's sickening to see UNC get away with fake classes unscathed while Randy gets busted for next to nothing really. Shameful.

The UNC debacle will forever scar the NCAA

Bogozags
10-05-2018, 03:43 AM
The UNC debacle will forever scar the NCAA

To what debacle are you referring???

That academic scandal has IMO long been forgotten by the country...schools now know another way of keeping their players eligible without penalty...there is now a precedent!

bartruff1
10-05-2018, 05:24 AM
What do you mean forgotten ??? Next you will tell me that panty raids have been forgotten !!!

willandi
10-05-2018, 06:18 AM
Litigating a defamation or libel case is rarely a good idea for a plaintiff. They essentially need to affirmatively disprove every false allegation that the defendant has made AND prove that defendant knew or should have known that the information was false AND prove that the false information damaged their reputation in a meaningful way. These cases can be muddy, rumor-mongering slugfests, because smearing the Plaintiff’s good reputation in open court is a great way to disprove that critical element of “harm to reputation.” If these universities want to keep all of these messy allegations in the news cycle for years to come, a defamation case will do that.

Doesn't Tanya Harding still live in Oregon?

RenoZag
10-05-2018, 07:12 AM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24895503/brian-bowen-sr-accuses-colleges-offering-cash-improper-benefits-son-attend


According to Bowen Sr., Dawkins told him that Arizona assistant coach Joe Pasternack offered $50,000; Oklahoma State assistant coach Lamont Evans offered $150,000 cash, $8,000 for a car and additional money to buy a house; Texas assistant coach Mike Morrell offered to "help me with housing"; and Creighton assistant coach Preston Murphy offered $100,000 and a "good job, a lucrative job."

Pasternack is now the head coach at UC Santa Barbara; Evans is one of three former assistant coaches who are charged in a separate federal case and is accused of accepting bribes from Dawkins and others to influence players to sign with certain agents and financial advisers; Morrell is now the head coach at UNC-Asheville; Murphy, a Saginaw native, is still employed at Creighton.

UCSB athletics spokesman Bill Mahoney said school officials "were not aware" of statements made in court regarding Pasternack prior to Thursday and that they have not been contacted by federal investigators involved in the trial.

23dpg
10-05-2018, 08:53 AM
As others have stated, it’s all about a level playing field.

This situation reminds me of the steroid era in baseball. Barry Bonds was widely considered the best player but he was being over shadowed by the new generation of power hitters. Average to good players were suddenly hitting 40-50 homers a year. (50 Was once almost unobtainable). I remember in the mid 90s, Jay Buhner hit 40 HRs in 3 straight years. First time in decades. Almost laughable now. So Bonds chose to cheat. He felt he had to to stay great. Other guys chose not to. They were still very good, but not superstars. (John Olerud?)

Long story short, I’m worried that Gonzaga will be very good but not great due to the cheating component of other schools.

Btw. Is Kentucky the Barry Bonds of my analogy?

willandi
10-05-2018, 09:09 AM
As others have stated, it’s all about a level playing field.

This situation reminds me of the steroid era in baseball. Barry Bonds was widely considered the best player but he was being over shadowed by the new generation of power hitters. Average to good players were suddenly hitting 40-50 homers a year. (50 Was once almost unobtainable). I remember in the mid 90s, Jay Buhner hit 40 HRs in 3 straight years. First time in decades. Almost laughable now. So Bonds chose to cheat. He felt he had to to stay great. Other guys chose not to. They were still very good, but not superstars. (John Olerud?)

Long story short, I’m worried that Gonzaga will be very good but not great due to the cheating component of other schools.

Btw. Is Kentucky the Barry Bonds of my analogy?

Have their heads increased a whole hat size?

Markburn1
10-05-2018, 09:16 AM
Have their heads increased a whole hat size?

Probably should check for shrinkage a little farther down the human anatomy.

gu03alum
10-05-2018, 09:43 AM
As others have stated, it’s all about a level playing field.

This situation reminds me of the steroid era in baseball. Barry Bonds was widely considered the best player but he was being over shadowed by the new generation of power hitters. Average to good players were suddenly hitting 40-50 homers a year. (50 Was once almost unobtainable). I remember in the mid 90s, Jay Buhner hit 40 HRs in 3 straight years. First time in decades. Almost laughable now. So Bonds chose to cheat. He felt he had to to stay great. Other guys chose not to. They were still very good, but not superstars. (John Olerud?)

Long story short, I’m worried that Gonzaga will be very good but not great due to the cheating component of other schools.

Btw. Is Kentucky the Barry Bonds of my analogy?

Duke is Barry Bonds.

Kentucky is Sammy Sosa and Kansas is Mark McGwire.

The college I'm having trouble assigning is Jose Canseco. I was thinking maybe UNC for it's years and years of academic cheating.

Zagceo
10-05-2018, 09:47 AM
you have Phil Knight and his wife donating close to $ 1 BILLION DOLLARS to University of Oregon and people wanna believe its possible to have a level recruiting environment.

Olympics used to be amateur until they weren't

maynard g krebs
10-05-2018, 11:08 AM
Interesting that Bowen's dad couldn't recall Oregon offering money, when he rattled off the precise amounts/perks offered by others. Maybe- I don't know, this is a radical thought around here- could it be because they didn't?

maynard g krebs
10-05-2018, 11:12 AM
you have Phil Knight and his wife donating close to $ 1 BILLION DOLLARS to University of Oregon and people wanna believe its possible to have a level recruiting environment.

Olympics used to be amateur until they weren't

Ironic. Oregon was a perennial bottom feeder until a couple of decades ago. Small market, isolated, little to no recruiting base. I say ironic because Knight's money just made them competitive with the league/nation's upper tier, i.e. leveled the playing field for them. If they were winning natl champships and dominating, you'd have a point. Schools like USC,UCLA, Zona, Stanford, UW aren't hurting compared to the Ducks.

bartruff1
10-05-2018, 11:30 AM
Interesting that Bowen's dad couldn't recall Oregon offering money, when he rattled off the precise amounts/perks offered by others. Maybe- I don't know, this is a radical thought around here- could it be because they didn't?

Who knows what a agent or a fan might do....even at Gonzaga.....but I would be amazed to find out that anyone on the staff at Oregon is involved with a NCAA violation...…. much less a crime.....

Bowen doesn't sound very creditable to me....about anything....

Hoopaholic
10-05-2018, 05:53 PM
Who knows what a agent or a fan might do....even at Gonzaga.....but I would be amazed to find out that anyone on the staff at Oregon is involved with a NCAA violation...…. much less a crime.....

Bowen doesn't sound very creditable to me....about anything....
Unless the thousands of hours of wire taps reinforces his statement?

bartruff1
10-05-2018, 06:42 PM
Obviously

bartruff1
10-06-2018, 09:04 AM
I'm sure it comes down to Federal Tax Laws...hard to imagine this money being reported in any legal way.

Why wouldn't the recipients just call them loans.....I assume it is not against the law to borrow money....

Bogozags
10-07-2018, 11:36 AM
I think they can be called whatever you like but that is not what they are...reminds me of the payola days.

TexasZagFan
10-07-2018, 12:50 PM
Why wouldn't the recipients just call them loans.....I assume it is not against the law to borrow money....

Forgiveness of debt is taxable income. The loan documents would be thoroughly scrutinized by the IRS.

bartruff1
10-07-2018, 01:26 PM
Forgiveness of debt is taxable income. The loan documents would be thoroughly scrutinized by the IRS.

I would assume any of these players would be able to pay off nearly any loan with walking around money….after they turn pro...

RenoZag
10-10-2018, 08:20 PM
Former Adidas consultant T.J. Gassnola testified Wednesday that he made payments to the relatives of five players, including the family of Deandre Ayton, the No. 1 overall pick in June's NBA draft by the Phoenix Suns.

Gassnola was called as a government witness in its wire fraud case against Adidas executive James Gatto, Adidas consultant Merl Code Jr. and runner Christian Dawkins. The prosecution is expected to continue its direct examination of Gassnola on Thursday, before the defense will cross-examine him.


De Sousa remains eligible and a member of the Kansas basketball team.

De Sousa enrolled at Kansas last December, but was held out of competition while waiting to be cleared by the NCAA. He didn't get to play until January.

"I obviously can't really comment on what's ongoing," Kansas coach Bill Self said Wednesday. "But I can say this, in the past I've made a statement that we certainly believe, based on the information we have, that this thing would have a positive resolution. But that was also based on the information that we had. So, you know, who knows what could potentially happen in the next, you know, whatever period of time? But I'm taking the approach, as everybody is on our team, that we're going to have Silvio De Sousa playing for us this year."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24952089/ex-adidas-consultant-tj-gassnola-says-paid-father-deandre-ayton

kitzbuel
10-11-2018, 08:32 AM
I would assume any of these players would be able to pay off nearly any loan with walking around money….after they turn pro...They would still have to report the loans as assets on their FAFSA, the failure to do so being fraud.

I think it is safe to suspect that these payments were not recorded as either income or loans on the offending student FAFSA forms.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

DixieZag
10-11-2018, 08:36 AM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24952089/ex-adidas-consultant-tj-gassnola-says-paid-father-deandre-ayton

Translated out of Self Legalese: "We may or may not have paid him, that all depends on whether the FBI has the evidence, and I don't know what all they have, so I am not saying anything about it. Given that we may or may not have paid him, we're going to play him every minute we possibly can while I believe he can help us win. As soon as I see evidence that hurts us to that end, I will re-evaluate then."

Mantua
10-11-2018, 08:46 AM
Translated out of Self Legalese: "We may or may not have paid him, that all depends on whether the FBI has the evidence, and I don't know what all they have, so I am not saying anything about it. Given that we may or may not have paid him, we're going to play him every minute we possibly can while I believe he can help us win. As soon as I see evidence that hurts us to that end, I will re-evaluate then."

I understand that lawyers are coaching the coaches and that there’s a lot at stake for individual coaches and players, programs and administrators and schools. Unfortunately, everyone is getting the message that ethics and morality depend on what you can get away with.

caldwellzag
10-11-2018, 08:55 AM
Some crazy testimony coming out again this morning. Funny all the Adidas employees are saying the same thing about these payments, not looking good for the programs.

If you don't follow Jeff on Twitter you should he has some great stuff.

https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1050428813459492864

https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1050428452749410304

bartruff1
10-11-2018, 11:29 AM
They would still have to report the loans as assets on their FAFSA, the failure to do so being fraud.

I think it is safe to suspect that these payments were not recorded as either income or loans on the offending student FAFSA forms.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


I am not aware that the students/athletes are being charged with crimes.....don't know why a relative or a friend would be filling out a student loan application.....

If someone paid Ayton $100,000 for a years worth of basketball at Arizona, they got a hell of a deal, he will probably make twice that per game this year...

There is still a presumption of innocence in the courtrooms...... as opposed to the media....and speaking of the media, they are not paying much attention to this at all..

HillZag
10-11-2018, 11:48 AM
Yep. Until the Knights got involved, Oregon was nothing in either football or basketball.

JPtheBeasta
10-11-2018, 01:02 PM
It’s interesting that one player allegedly took shoe money to pay off a booster at another school. What a tangled mess. The misguided assumption is that this wouldn’t happen if we just paid the players. Unless these schools are paying top recruits in the 100K/year neighborhood it seems that there is still going to be a problem with this.

CDC84
10-11-2018, 01:19 PM
Meanwhile, in Louisville country, Dan Wetzel has penned a piece on whether the Cardinal should get the death penalty

https://sports.yahoo.com/louisville-basketball-get-death-penalty-latest-revelations-college-hoops-trial-225857521.html

kitzbuel
10-11-2018, 01:38 PM
I am not aware that the students/athletes are being charged with crimes.....don't know why a relative or a friend would be filling out a student loan application.....

If someone paid Ayton $100,000 for a years worth of basketball at Arizona, they got a hell of a deal, he will probably make twice that per game this year...

There is still a presumption of innocence in the courtrooms...... as opposed to the media....and speaking of the media, they are not paying much attention to this at all..
There is the collusion and the associated bribery that seems to be the focus of the investigation. The ‘SAs’ are not the big fish.

willandi
10-11-2018, 02:50 PM
There is the collusion and the associated bribery that seems to be the focus of the investigation. The ‘SAs’ are not the big fish.

Agreed, but they are old enough to sign a binding contract and to know right from wrong.

If they will do this, what is to stop them from taking money in the NBA to shave points? Just a rhetorical question and one that I have no knowledge of it happening...but everyone has a price, and they have already shown what theirs is.

kitzbuel
10-11-2018, 03:37 PM
Agreed, but they are old enough to sign a binding contract and to know right from wrong.

If they will do this, what is to stop them from taking money in the NBA to shave points? Just a rhetorical question and one that I have no knowledge of it happening...but everyone has a price, and they have already shown what theirs is.
This is about the FBI getting convictions. They will focus their efforts on the big money offenders. Those are not the SAs.

willandi
10-11-2018, 06:42 PM
This is about the FBI getting convictions. They will focus their efforts on the big money offenders. Those are not the SAs.

You are undoubtedly correct, but there is enough to go around.

I was more pointing at what should be a concern at both the NCAA and NBA levels. If they are willing to cheat for $10 thou as freshman, or $100 thou, what will they do for an extra $5M cash?

bartruff1
10-11-2018, 08:34 PM
$5,000,000...… coincidence ?....That happens to be what Larry Scott the Comish of the Conference of Champions makes a year for making sure the rules are being followed...... and the officials are not interfered with...…. and overruled by his office…..

Might be time for the Presidents to tidy things up a bit...

Zagceo
10-12-2018, 04:58 AM
Balsa Koprivica: Koprivica, a 7-foot center and son of former Serbian pro player Slavisa Koprivica, was born in Belgrade and moved to the U.S. with his mother in 2015. He has attended three high schools since arriving in Florida, most recently Montverde Academy. He is ranked 42nd in the 2019 ESPN Top 100. He is considering Gonzaga, Baylor and Florida State, among other schools.http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24813412/what-watch-college-hoops-biggest-scandal-goes-trial

ZagNative
10-12-2018, 12:04 PM
Matt Norlander and Gary Parrish talk in a podcast about the recruiting corruption case which Norlander has been attending: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-podcast-why-its-not-been-a-good-week-for-programs-involved-in-corruption-trial/

23dpg
10-12-2018, 12:31 PM
Matt Norlander and Gary Parrish talk in a podcast about the recruiting corruption case which Norlander has been attending: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-podcast-why-its-not-been-a-good-week-for-programs-involved-in-corruption-trial/

I just listened to that podcast. So, so dirty. I think i need a shower.

ZagNative
10-12-2018, 01:05 PM
I just listened to that podcast. So, so dirty. I think i need a shower.I obviously am not smart enough to serve on the jury during that trial. What a convusing mess ...

ZagsGoZags
10-13-2018, 12:21 PM
you have Phil Knight and his wife donating close to $ 1 BILLION DOLLARS to University of Oregon and people wanna believe its possible to have a level recruiting environment.

Olympics used to be amateur until they weren't

and Bartruff says if AZ paid their Center Anton (sp?) $100,000 they got a hell of a deal.


I can appreciate that realists can raise the factual awareness of people who are naive or gullible. And if some parties are found guilty of bribery in paying cash to basketball recruits (or their family or atttorneys), I can appreciate Zagceo and Bartruff not being surprised. We are all in charge of our opinions, they are our personal property, and people generally feel their voice is but a tiny squeak in a hurricane when it comes to trying to keep a system running with some level of integrity.

But I would like to point out that countries with populations that are not outraged by bribery, or lets say, govt. officials looking the other way if their athletes are doping (eg. Chinese women long distance runners in the 1990's, Russia right now, and East Germany in the 1980's) are just the kind of citizens these authoritarian states need to get away with their shenanigans. One of my best friends was nonchalant about Armstrong's biking 'success' and Barry Bonds doping. I argued that it wasn't fair to the athletes not using steroids but competing against them in the same competitions. His reply was if they don't like it they should use steroids themselves, then we would have a level playing field. All athletes would be doping. I suppose this argument could be used against me now. If GU fans aren't bothered by the zags playing against teams where top recruits are paid under the table, what is the logical extension here? That if GU did the same thing we would have a level playing field. I argue it is crucial for a system to have integrity, and when not, its members need to express, and politically act it out if they are willing, outrage when cheaters are caught. Since Mark Few would never do this, then we would have to get a different set of coaches who would begin under the table operations.

I watched the Movie "The Insiders" with a student from South America. When tobacco companies were caught lying to the public about whether they believed nicotine was addictive, and Brown & Williams even thought of buying CBS so they could block the story airing, I was outraged. But the student sitting next to me was amused, and teased me about being silly. Only a fool would be surprised that Big Money (corporations or Fed. Govt., etc.) lies and deceives the public about everything. He reminded me that in his country most people would not watch a program like that because they already know they are being screwed by big power. I reminded him that was the difference between his country and the USA.

Personally I am offended the the zags have to play against some giant blue blood programs who may funnel funds (violations of NCAA rules) to recruits, then we lose to those teams by a few points in the big games. Because there are enough people offended and outraged, it makes good copy for journalists and editors to run the stories. The jaded people are not interested in hearing what they already know anyway. If the public is not outraged by hearing of a scandal that affects them, then why should journalists and investigators for the public interest even waste their time? Maybe I am a goodie, goodie two shoes type of guy, but I hope the punishments for those found guilty are significant at the .05 level. When I think of how far we went (National Championship game) the FIRST TIME WE HAD A TRUE 5 STAR PLAYER, Zach Collins, and compare our smallish college to many Blue Bloods who have a couple or more 5 star recruits most years, it will make me furious if I learn that some of those 5 star jocks are on the take, when the zags aren't. It will make me want to boil some of those elite programs in their blue blood. I'll take the red-blooded honesty of Few and other programs who want to make/or keep Division One basketball a system of fair competitions.

bartruff1
10-13-2018, 12:50 PM
That is not my position and that is not my argument.... nor do I believe it is CEO's....of course it is morally wrong to cheat and everyone should be outraged and they should be punished if guilty....what I am saying is that it is a NCAA violation and subject to NCAA rules and sanctions....not a violation of the law......and that is the argument the defense is making...that it is the NCAA's responsibility to make and enforce the rules and level the field as much as practical...

As for Ayton's worth...my point is that everyone, including Gonzaga and Saint Mark are exploiting these kids....the schools and the coaches are making millions ….

Take your lantern to Washington DC...that is where the FBI should be investigating...you can't swing a dead cat by the tail in DC without hitting a half dozen criminals.

Zagceo
10-13-2018, 01:52 PM
What really sucks is when a school like UNC spends millions of dollars on litigation against NCAA and wins a case that makes a mockery of education.

I want Zags to always play by the rules.

I expect blue bloods do whatever it takes to land whales.

bartruff1
10-13-2018, 02:04 PM
What really sucks is when a school like UNC spends millions of dollars on litigation against NCAA and wins a case that makes a mockery of education.

I want Zags to always play by the rules.

I expect blue bloods do whatever it takes to land whales.

Of course, but I am sure glad we are playing North Carolina....imo the worst cheaters in the history of college basketball....except maybe for UCLA...:)

jazzdelmar
10-13-2018, 03:30 PM
Of course, but I am sure glad we are playing North Carolina....imo the worst cheaters in the history of college basketball....except maybe for UCLA...:)

Nothing compares to UCLA and that false idol Wooden.

Bogozags
10-15-2018, 11:31 AM
I just found and read this in an ESPN article written by Mark Schlabach ESPN Senior Writer:

"On Aug. 9, 2017, Townsend texted Gassnola and wrote, "Coach Self just talked to Fenny let me know how it goes."

A few hours later, Gassnola texted Self: "Hall of Fame. When you have 5 minutes and your [sic] alone call me."

Later that night, after Self hadn't responded, Gassnola texted him again: "I talked with Fenny."

"We good," Self asked via text.

"Always," Gassnola replied. "That's [sic] was light work. Ball is in his court now."

According to cell phone records presented during Monday's testimony, Gassnola and Self had a five-minute, six-second phone call later that night. Gassnola testified that he didn't recall what the men talked about. His phone was not being monitored via FBI wiretaps at the time.

On Sept. 19, 2017, three days before Kansas announced that it had agreed to a 12-year, $191 million contract extension with Adidas, Gassnola texted Self and thanked him for helping the sponsorship deal get done.

Self responded: "I'm happy with Adidas. Just got to get a couple real guys."

Gassnola replied: "In my mind, it's KU, bill self. Everyone else fall into line. Too (expletive) bad. That's what's right for Adidas basketball. And I know I am RIGHT. The more you win, have lottery pics [sic] and you happy. That's how it should work in my mind."

Self responded: "That's how ur works. At UNC and Duke." Gassnola replied at Kentucky as well.

"I promise you I got this," Gassnola wrote. "I have never let you down. Except Dyondre lol. We will get it right."

When Michael Schacter, Gatto's defense attorney, asked Gassnola if "Dyondre" was a reference to former Arizona player Deandre Ayton, Gassnola replied, "It is."
[/I]

My question to those keeping up with this trial, "Does this indicate that Kansas Coach Bill Self might have been involved in "pay to play?"

gu03alum
10-15-2018, 12:15 PM
I just found and read this in an ESPN article written by Mark Schlabach ESPN Senior Writer:


Wow!

Mantua
10-15-2018, 12:20 PM
My question to those keeping up with this trial, "Does this indicate that Kansas Coach Bill Self might have been involved in "pay to play?"


Sure looks like it.

ZagNative
10-15-2018, 12:27 PM
That's incredible. Hard to believe Self can keep his job after that. Here's the link to the whole article: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24990651/texts-show-kansas-coaches-knew-adidas-role-silvio-de-sousa-recruitment


NEW YORK -- Former Adidas consultant T.J. Gassnola testified in federal court Monday that he didn't believe that Kansas Jayhawks coach Bill Self and assistant coach Kurtis Townsend were aware he was facilitating money from the sneaker company to the parents or guardians of high-profile recruits to ensure they signed with the Jayhawks.

But text messages between Gassnola, Self and Townsend presented by defense attorneys on Monday indicated the Kansas coaches were at least aware of Gassnola's involvement in the Jayhawks' recruitment of current player Silvio De Sousa, a native of Angola.

The testimony and revelation of the text messages came during the federal criminal trial involving Adidas executive James Gatto, Adidas consultant Merl Code and Christian Dawkins, a runner for former NBA agent Andy Miller. The men are charged with wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud by allegedly funneling money from Adidas to the families of recruits at Kansas, Louisville, Miami and NC State.

ZagNative
10-15-2018, 12:54 PM
Gary Parrish column: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/texts-between-kansas-coach-bill-self-and-ex-adidas-rep-show-how-high-level-college-basketball-recruiting-works/


The most interesting text messages between Bill Self and T.J. Gassnola that were shared Monday in federal court were the ones that came after the former Adidas consultant thanked the Kansas coach for whatever role he played in getting KU's 12-year contract extension done with the apparel company in September 2017.

Self, according to The Kansas City Star, told Gassnola he was happy with Adidas before adding "just need to get a couple real guys."

"In my mind, it's KU, Bill Self. Everyone else fall into line. Too (expletive) bad," Gassnola replied. "That's what's right for Adidas basketball. And I know I'm right. The more you have lottery picks and you happy. That's how it should work in my mind."

"That's how ur (sic) works. At UNC and Duke," Self replied.

Gassnola answered by saying Kentucky as well.

Self welcomes the help from Adidas because, he believes, North Carolina and Duke get similar help from Nike. So does Kentucky, Gassnola proclaims.

Simply put, this has been college basketball for a while.

Self was right.

That's how it works.

Now do I have proof that Nike has paid prospects to go to Nike schools, or that Under Armour has paid prospects to go to Under Armour schools? No. (The feds might, though.) But what I do know is that coaches have long believed both Nike and Under Armour assist Nike and Under Armour schools in recruiting exactly the same way it's been proven Adidas assisted Kansas, NC State and Louisville in recruiting.

Mantua
10-15-2018, 01:04 PM
Gary Parrish column: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/texts-between-kansas-coach-bill-self-and-ex-adidas-rep-show-how-high-level-college-basketball-recruiting-works/

So Self’s rationale is "I’m cheating to stay competitive with other schools who are cheating. I don’t care about how this affects the player's lives."

What does “blue blood" really mean now?

ZagNative
10-15-2018, 01:07 PM
So what the hell is the NCAA doing about this disaster? Is the FBI's involvement a reaction against the NCA's inaction? What can be done to prod the NCAA to act?

jazzdelmar
10-15-2018, 01:43 PM
So what the hell is the NCAA doing about this disaster? Is the FBI's involvement a reaction against the NCA's inaction? What can be done to prod the NCAA to act?

Bupkis. Ever hear the NCAA head talk? You’ll need a bottle of antacid.

MDABE80
10-15-2018, 01:55 PM
So Self’s rationale is "I’m cheating to stay competitive with other schools who are cheating. I don’t care about how this affects the player's lives."

What does “blue blood" really mean now?
It means the FBI could take down college basketball mostly for the Blue Bloods. If UNC got away with their issue, anyone can. Pay the fine, blame some assistants or donors and that's that. There is simply too much money here. Dirty and nasty business it seems. I'm glad GU is nowhere near this. But the guys we compete with are. Now what? Don't kick over a rock unless you really want to know what's under it. The schools that are big time will be nailed but lightly. Death sentences for all these higher end programs would end college basketball as we know it presently. Something will happen. Even if the offenders had their wins, titles, etc expunged, does anyone really think a kid wouldn't go the blue blood schools that are more along the lines of "historical" programs.? I think they would.

TexasZagFan
10-15-2018, 02:15 PM
Coach K has spoken from Olympus:
"I think [college basketball] is actually pretty clean," he told ESPN on Monday.

He may be sending the NCAA our way, though.


He also said he's more concerned with grad transfers than cheaters.

"Guys have lost jobs because their two best players who were going to return are grad transfers," he told ESPN. "Instead of 'That's my NCAA team,' now it's my 8-22 team. That has happened. I'm more concerned about that kinda stuff than the stuff in New York. I think that's a little sensationalism."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24990621/duke-blue-devils-coach-mike-krzyzewski-says-college-basketball-actually-pretty-clean

Pacific can breathe a bit easier...:lmao:

primal23
10-15-2018, 02:22 PM
Coach K has spoken from Olympus:

He may be sending the NCAA our way, though.



http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24990621/duke-blue-devils-coach-mike-krzyzewski-says-college-basketball-actually-pretty-clean

Pacific can breathe a bit easier...:lmao:

This strikes me as an attempt at a distraction.
But like you said since it came from coach K it’s got to be gospel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mr Vulture
10-15-2018, 02:32 PM
That is not my position and that is not my argument.... nor do I believe it is CEO's....of course it is morally wrong to cheat and everyone should be outraged and they should be punished if guilty....what I am saying is that it is a NCAA violation and subject to NCAA rules and sanctions....not a violation of the law......and that is the argument the defense is making...that it is the NCAA's responsibility to make and enforce the rules and level the field as much as practical...

As for Ayton's worth...my point is that everyone, including Gonzaga and Saint Mark are exploiting these kids....the schools and the coaches are making millions ….

Take your lantern to Washington DC...that is where the FBI should be investigating...you can't swing a dead cat by the tail in DC without hitting a half dozen criminals.

I would disagree with your statement that Gonzaga and even the bigger schools are "exploiting" these kids. My reasoning is this, the majority of athletic programs are not making "millions" in the end and often are working in the red without major donations from boosters. The major revenue sports are what fund the remainder of the athletic department at most schools and whether we choose to acknowledge it or not, the degree is a big deal if the athlete takes advantage of it.

If you want to say the NCAA, which is netting billions is exploiting them, I would say that is much more accurate.

Mr Vulture
10-15-2018, 02:34 PM
Coach K has spoken from Olympus:

He may be sending the NCAA our way, though.



http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24990621/duke-blue-devils-coach-mike-krzyzewski-says-college-basketball-actually-pretty-clean

Pacific can breathe a bit easier...:lmao:

Coach K is a moron if he thinks a kid transferring with a degree is a bigger issue. How about recruiting athletes year after year that have no intention of getting a degree Coach K? He is a clueless fool if he believes the garbage he says.

Martin Centre Mad Man
10-15-2018, 03:31 PM
Coach K is a moron if he thinks a kid transferring with a degree is a bigger issue. How about recruiting athletes year after year that have no intention of getting a degree Coach K? He is a clueless fool if he believes the garbage he says.

Agreed. I don’t believe for a moment that Duke cares about the welfare of programs in mid-major leagues.

Graduate transfers are not harming college basketball. If a kid from the Summit League is disciplined enough to earn a degree with eligibility remaining and then chooses to go play for a bigger program, let him have that reward for his hard work.

bdmiller7
10-15-2018, 03:44 PM
I would disagree with your statement that Gonzaga and even the bigger schools are "exploiting" these kids. My reasoning is this, the majority of athletic programs are not making "millions" in the end and often are working in the red without major donations from boosters. The major revenue sports are what fund the remainder of the athletic department at most schools and whether we choose to acknowledge it or not, the degree is a big deal if the athlete takes advantage of it.

If you want to say the NCAA, which is netting billions is exploiting them, I would say that is much more accurate.

The NCAA does not net billions, or even gross billions. The NCAA gets about 760 million a year for the basketball tourney contract. 96 percent of that goes back to the 350+ D1 schools and a little to the D2 schools in a variety of ways. The NCAA keeps about 4 percent, around 30 million, for administrative expenses and salaries. One tourney basically funds all other college athletics and 90 NCAA championships.

bdmiller7
10-15-2018, 03:58 PM
A big reason the NCAA has trouble monitoring and disciplining schools is they lack the funds and the authoritative power. The only way they can hurt schools is withholding money if they can prove wrong doing.

bdmiller7
10-15-2018, 04:03 PM
Roger Goodell makes more money than the entire NCAA.

SLOZag
10-15-2018, 04:10 PM
Roger Goodell makes more money than the entire NCAA.

I don't think so. "It's not clear how much Goodell was paid in 2016 and 2017. His salary was cut continually between 2012, when he made $44.2 million, and 2015. That is when the NFL dropped its federal tax exemption. As a result, Goodell's salary is no longer public. Goodell took the job in 2006. Between 2008 and 2015, he was paid more than $205 million."

https://money.cnn.com/2017/11/13/news/companies/nfl-roger-goodell-contract-report/index.html

JPtheBeasta
10-15-2018, 04:53 PM
Agreed. I don’t believe for a moment that Duke cares about the welfare of programs in mid-major leagues.

Graduate transfers are not harming college basketball. If a kid from the Summit League is disciplined enough to earn a degree with eligibility remaining and then chooses to go play for a bigger program, let him have that reward for his hard work.

I agree. It rewards the late bloomers or players who put in the hard work to be a better player at a better program, or allows a person who is languishing in a system that is not a good fit to move to a better situation for his future. Of course, Coach K’s comments come from a coach-centric (and fan-base centric, to be fair) position. If a coach can quit on his team and move on to greener pastures, a player should have some freedom, as well.

Bogozags
10-15-2018, 06:02 PM
I have said this several times before...

This ESPN headline says it all!

Duke and UNC lead the title hunt, and other futures to like Duke was the odds on favorite and GU was second with UNC third...so maybe ESPN just forgot that GU was second, ya think!

Duke, UNC, UK, KU, UCLA, AZ, IU are the main "Blue Bloods" and the ones that the NATION follows and wants to hear about all the time...These schools make money for ESPN via advertising...GU just isn't at that level and they do not want to give them the same status...

Look at UCF...they didn't move in the recent football polls...they are discounted because they are not a P-5 school...

It is all about money and the NCAA really doesn't want to get involved in this pay-to-play situation because if they did and put AZ, KU, NCST and Miami on probation, then all those kids playing at those schools could leave and find another school and play immediately...

"IF" by chance the NCAA has to get involved, it won't be until after the trial and not effect these schools this season...then the schools will be give an chance to rebut the accusations and while doing so, decided to self-impose a tournament ban and reduce allowable scholarships and then the NCAA will say, "Your self-imposed penalty is sufficient!"

Money is POWER, POWER corrupts and that is where we are today...

If any of us think the playing table is level, then I know a ski resort in the Florida Keys that is selling ownership shares for only $100 each...



Maybe all scholarships should go by the way side and actually do away with the need to have an NCAA altogether and just have "Club Teams!" No that wouldn't work either as the shoe companies would find a way to get Club Teams to wear their gear and of course slip a few grand under the table so those teams play in their uni's and shoes...IT IS JUST TO LATE to fix this problem...JUST TOO MUCH MONEY!

Of course this is just my opinion...

kitzbuel
10-15-2018, 06:44 PM
This strikes me as an attempt at a distraction.
But like you said since it came from coach K it’s got to be gospel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://uploads.scratch.mit.edu/users/avatars/1580/8045.png

ZagDad84
10-15-2018, 09:13 PM
If I remember correctly, the NCAA made a change in their rules that permits them to use information & documentation obtained by legal authorities in any judgements they may decide to pursue against member schools.

I expect that the NCAA will do absolutely nothing until, at the earliest, the FBI is entirely done with their case if they choose to do anything at all. If it so happens that by the time everybody indicted by the FBI is tried and sentenced and the NCAA begins (??) their investigation into the allegations made in the FBI case, it is likely that this year's NCAA tournament will be over and another group of one-and-doners will be gone to the NBA.

It does make sense for the NCAA to wait until the FBI has presented all of their evidence and the FBI trials concluded before they begin their investigation. Nothing says the NCAA will do anything, but if they do something, don't expect it until long after the FBI has concluded their business.

ZagDad

bartruff1
10-17-2018, 08:37 AM
Oh my.....Zion Williamson….Duke's superstar freshman may have been looking for a job, cash and housing from Kansas and Adidas .....

zagssuperfan
10-17-2018, 09:00 AM
Oh my.....Zion Williamson….Duke's superstar freshman may have been looking for a job, cash and housing from Kansas and Adidas .....

I'm sure he went to Duke for free though, cause coach K says they are clean....

bartruff1
10-17-2018, 09:06 AM
I'm sure he went to Duke for free though, cause coach K says they are clean....

No doubt...

willandi
10-17-2018, 09:07 AM
I'm sure he went to Duke for free though, cause coach K says they are clean....

I AM sure they shower frequently. That must be what he meant.

mgadfly
10-17-2018, 09:31 AM
I would disagree with your statement that Gonzaga and even the bigger schools are "exploiting" these kids. My reasoning is this, the majority of athletic programs are not making "millions" in the end and often are working in the red without major donations from boosters. The major revenue sports are what fund the remainder of the athletic department at most schools and whether we choose to acknowledge it or not, the degree is a big deal if the athlete takes advantage of it.

If you want to say the NCAA, which is netting billions is exploiting them, I would say that is much more accurate.

I think there are at least two ways to think about the "NCAA." One way is to narrowly define it as the official non-profit organization charged with enforcing the athletic rules at member organizations (colleges and universities). However, I think "NCAA" is used by some to mean both the organization in its official capacity as well as member institutions (or at least those athletic directors, coaches, players that profit or are governed by the NCAA rules).

Saying, "the NCAA is investigating UNC for ..." means something different than "the NCAA basketball season should be very competitive..." Maybe the NCAA organization has a three on three tournament at headquarters or something, but I'm pretty sure we all know that NCAA is meant to include all the schools.

The NCAA that exploits players is the NCAA organization along with NCAA members, athletic directors and coaches. They've set up a system of amateur sports that prevents a free market supply and demand model on one side (those on the court) of the labor equation, while setting up a free market based on supply and demand on the other side of the labor equation (coaches, ADs, schools, and -to a lesser degree-the NCAA officials that draw salaries from NCAA revenues). By doing so, and continuing to support it, a bigger slice of the pie goes to the free market driven side of the equation making those who derive incomes from it much richer than if they had to share revenues with those on the other side of the equation.

And I understand that many NCAA regulated sports, like water polo, are not generating revenues. But what does that have to do with anything? If we are going to use a business model then water polo shouldn't exist outside of club sports or players pay-to-play or something. If we are going to use an amateur athletics model, Coach K shouldn't be a millionaire (and neither should Mark Few). They should receive salary based on an amateur athletics model. So just the same way we say a scholarship is perfectly fine compensation for both the water polo player and the top basketball recruit in the world, we should be saying the $135,000 per year a water polo coach earns (I googled an article on it, that is decent compensation), is the same $135,000 per year that a basketball coach earns.

It is the mixing of these two systems, amateur sports with free market enterprise, that incentivizes people to exploit others. Just saying their exploitation leads to good things (like women's sports or whatever) doesn't eliminate the hypocrisy and exploitation. If the major sports are going to be businesses, their labor should be treated like labor in a business environment.

caldwellzag
10-17-2018, 09:34 AM
Wow I can't believe this comment. Poor Universities!!!

https://twitter.com/PeteBrush/status/1052609755791978497

maynard g krebs
10-17-2018, 09:53 AM
I'm sure he went to Duke for free though, cause coach K says they are clean....

Duke is Duke. They just might be able to get kids who are bright enough to wait a year for their fortune (and avoid any potential taint) and use that year at Duke to augment their brand. Which the tv exposure will do. Don't really know, but it seems logical.

And no, I'm not a Duke fan. Just whining on their behalf. (Or, as I prefer to call it, using common sense logic.)

Zagceo
10-17-2018, 10:04 AM
I think there are at least two ways to think about the "NCAA." One way is to narrowly define it as the official non-profit organization charged with enforcing the athletic rules at member organizations (colleges and universities). However, I think "NCAA" is used by some to mean both the organization in its official capacity as well as member institutions (or at least those athletic directors, coaches, players that profit or are governed by the NCAA rules).

Saying, "the NCAA is investigating UNC for ..." means something different than "the NCAA basketball season should be very competitive..." Maybe the NCAA organization has a three on three tournament at headquarters or something, but I'm pretty sure we all know that NCAA is meant to include all the schools.

The NCAA that exploits players is the NCAA organization along with NCAA members, athletic directors and coaches. They've set up a system of amateur sports that prevents a free market supply and demand model on one side (those on the court) of the labor equation, while setting up a free market based on supply and demand on the other side of the labor equation (coaches, ADs, schools, and -to a lesser degree-the NCAA officials that draw salaries from NCAA revenues). By doing so, and continuing to support it, a bigger slice of the pie goes to the free market driven side of the equation making those who derive incomes from it much richer than if they had to share revenues with those on the other side of the equation.

And I understand that many NCAA regulated sports, like water polo, are not generating revenues. But what does that have to do with anything? If we are going to use a business model then water polo shouldn't exist outside of club sports or players pay-to-play or something. If we are going to use an amateur athletics model, Coach K shouldn't be a millionaire (and neither should Mark Few). They should receive salary based on an amateur athletics model. So just the same way we say a scholarship is perfectly fine compensation for both the water polo player and the top basketball recruit in the world, we should be saying the $135,000 per year a water polo coach earns (I googled an article on it, that is decent compensation), is the same $135,000 per year that a basketball coach earns.

It is the mixing of these two systems, amateur sports with free market enterprise, that incentivizes people to exploit others. Just saying their exploitation leads to good things (like women's sports or whatever) doesn't eliminate the hypocrisy and exploitation. If the major sports are going to be businesses, their labor should be treated like labor in a business environment.

and the Olympics eliminated the amateur part years ago

CDC84
10-17-2018, 10:31 AM
Look at UCF...they didn't move in the recent football polls...they are discounted because they are not a P-5 school...

Not related to the scandal........most people do not realize this, but UCF has the 2nd largest enrollment of any public university in the United States of America. 66,000+. Only Texas A&M is larger. The only reason why UCF doesn't belong to a power 5 conference is because the university didn't exist before 1963. Just like Gonzaga is an odd ball men's basketball program in that their program generates more revenue and profit than any Pac 12 school besides UCLA and Zona (look it up - it's true), UCF even being associated with schools like Utah State, Toledo, and Louisiana Tech in football is also odd ball and kind of unfair. Plus the state of Florida is a gold mine for prep football recruiting. Miami, FSU and Florida are not what they used to be......

I still cannot believe that the past 2 seasons, UCF has had scheduled games vs. BCS teams cancelled. Talk about rotten luck. They are actually hosting Stanford next season. Watch.....that game will get wiped out due to a hurricane warning......

23dpg
10-24-2018, 11:36 AM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25072946/james-gatto-merl-code-christian-dawkins-found-guilty-college-basketball-pay-play-trial

Will this change anything?

strikenowhere
10-24-2018, 11:47 AM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/adidas-executive-two-others-found-guilty-in-college-basketball-corruption-trial-1540408813

Gatto & Dawkins guilty

MDABE80
10-24-2018, 12:38 PM
Some rules will change and these 3 will see some time but the NCAA won'
t go after institutions in a big way. You do not kill the goose who's sending you big gold eggs weekly AND keeps you in power.

basketballzag
10-24-2018, 12:44 PM
Some rules will change and these 3 will see some time but the NCAA won'
t go after institutions in a big way. You do not kill the goose who's sending you big gold eggs weekly AND keeps you in power.

The next FBI basketball trial is set for April involving the Oregon coaches. I suspect a plea deal will be reached.

bdmiller7
10-24-2018, 01:02 PM
The next FBI basketball trial is set for April involving the Oregon coaches. I suspect a plea deal will be reached.

I think its coaches from Arizona, USC, and Oklahoma St.

Zagdawg
10-24-2018, 01:05 PM
College Basketball Corruption Trial: In the end, a guilty verdict was what was always coming

https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/10/24/college-basketball-corruption-trial-in-the-end-a-guilty-verdict-was-what-was-always-coming/

Zagdawg
10-24-2018, 01:36 PM
Alicia Jessop

Verified account

@RulingSports
1h1 hour ago
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The maximum sentences the 1st set of defendants face in the FBI NCAA basketball corruption case are as follows:

Christian Dawkins: 200-years
James "Jim" Gatto: 80-years
Merl Code: 80-years

Martin Centre Mad Man
10-24-2018, 01:51 PM
It doesn’t really feel like Kansas and Louisville were victimized by these acts of wire fraud. They feel more like co-conspirators in these crimes - to the extent that these actions constitute crimes.

jazzdelmar
10-24-2018, 02:10 PM
Boeheim. Ever classless.

The verdict doesn’t mean anything,” Boeheim said. “What’s there has to be repaired. What’s there is not good. Obviously it’s not good, but we have to isolate. It’s one sneaker company, one guy, and they obviously broke an awful lot of NCAA rules.

“It’s very damaging what has happened, and the most damaging part is that there were coaches involved, assistant coaches involved, and that’s not good for college basketball.”

Entering his 43rd season at his alma mater, Boeheim is second all-time in coaching victories. He’s also been on the receiving end of an NCAA suspension for nine games in 2015 and sanctions levied against the school’s men’s basketball program for academic improprieties and extra benefits provided during his tenure.

But Boeheim underscored not once during his time in college basketball has he been asked for money or requested money be paid to anyone.

Mantua
10-24-2018, 02:26 PM
It doesn’t really feel like Kansas and Louisville were victimized by these acts of wire fraud. They feel more like co-conspirators in these crimes - to the extent that these actions constitute crimes.


Bill Self made a deal?

bartruff1
10-24-2018, 02:43 PM
It doesn’t really feel like Kansas and Louisville were victimized by these acts of wire fraud. They feel more like co-conspirators in these crimes - to the extent that these actions constitute crimes.

I agree...that is the most convoluted logic....but of course I was not on the jury or at the trial....it looked like a house of cards to me with the other charges dependent upon a guilty on the so called fraud charge....the appeal will be interesting...witch hunt...no collusion....sad.

Zagceo
10-24-2018, 02:53 PM
NEW BALANCE jumping in


NBA agent and Klutch Sports co-founder Rich Paul called the choice of top prospect Darius Bazley (http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/222152/darius-bazley) to forgo college and opt for a $1 million shoe-company internship the product of a broken system, saying Wednesday the on-court component of the next seven months was "the one thing that we were missing."
Bazley, ranked the No. 13 prospect in the 2018 by ESPN, decommitted from Syracuse in March and said he planned to play in the NBA's G League. This week, he again changed course, landing a first-of-its-kind, three-month job with New Balance, a deal Paul brokered.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25074140/rich-paul-darius-bazley-1-million-internship-result-broken-system

DixieZag
10-24-2018, 03:22 PM
Alicia Jessop

Verified account

@RulingSports
1h1 hour ago
More
The maximum sentences the 1st set of defendants face in the FBI NCAA basketball corruption case are as follows:

Christian Dawkins: 200-years
James "Jim" Gatto: 80-years
Merl Code: 80-years

The maximum is just about never handed down, and never for first time offenders in a non-violent crime. I read 2-4 years most likely.

TexasZagFan
10-24-2018, 03:59 PM
NEW BALANCE jumping in



http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25074140/rich-paul-darius-bazley-1-million-internship-result-broken-system

Good thing I buy my shoes through Orthofeet.com. I don't have to be a party to the Swoosh and the other denizens of the swamp.

https://www.orthofeet.com/

O/T, but over the past several months, I bought a pair of walking shoes and a pair of sandals. By far, they're the most comfortable shoes I've ever worn. I wore the sandals on vacation, walking 5+ miles a day at the theme parks we visited...Legoland and Disneyland. My feet felt great all the time.

They're not as stylish of course, but they're more than passable in the looks department. Prices are very reasonable.

seacatfan
10-24-2018, 05:09 PM
200 year max? That's just stupid. I guess that'll teach 'em. Of course they'll have to stick him in a cryogenic freezing chamber so that he survives long enough to serve his full sentence. Do we have those yet? I saw it in a Sylvester Stallone movie several decades ago, it must be a real thing by now...

WallaWallaZag
10-25-2018, 12:14 AM
200 year max? That's just stupid. I guess that'll teach 'em. Of course they'll have to stick him in a cryogenic freezing chamber so that he survives long enough to serve his full sentence. Do we have those yet? I saw it in a Sylvester Stallone movie several decades ago, it must be a real thing by now...

heck, wasn't han solo frozen in the 70's...technique should be perfected by now =)

JPtheBeasta
10-25-2018, 06:00 AM
heck, wasn't han solo frozen in the 70's...technique should be perfected by now =)

I like where your head is but I think the thawing out is the hard part.

bigblahla
10-25-2018, 06:29 AM
My ignorance of the law is about to show.... hopefully someone can explain this to me...

What is the crime in offering a kid or his parents or guardian money to get him to attend a certain university on behalf of a shoe company? Does anyone actually believe the coaches didn't know or weren't a party to theses actions?

I understand the morality but for me it's the coaches involved that should be strung up... if Bill Self was indeed involved in the texting conversation as indicated then the President of the Kansas University and the board of trustees owe it to their institution to vilify and fire his lying, cheating azz.... all coaches from every institution involved should receive similar treatment.... that includes good ol Roy and his unbelievable I didn't know BS from the UNC academic scandal....

Just my opinion...

Go !! Zags!!!

willandi
10-25-2018, 06:48 AM
My ignorance of the law is about to show.... hopefully someone can explain this to me...

What is the crime in offering a kid or his parents or guardian money to get him to attend a certain university on behalf of a shoe company? Does anyone actually believe the coaches didn't know or weren't a party to theses actions?

I understand the morality but for me it's the coaches involved that should be strung up... if Bill Self was indeed involved in the texting conversation as indicated then the President of the Kansas University and the board of trustees owe it to their institution to vilify and fire his lying, cheating azz.... all coaches from every institution involved should receive similar treatment.... that includes good ol Roy and his unbelievable I didn't know BS from the UNC academic scandal....

Just my opinion...

Go !! Zags!!!

I agree 100%.

They were found guilty of fraud. I believe the coaches are at least as guilty. I also don't know the law, but do believe that all those at state schools have violated their morality clause and should be fired. Private schools is a bit harder, but any private school founded on a religious platform would have their own standards, which should apply to the coaches as well.

mgadfly
10-25-2018, 06:57 AM
I agree 100%.

They were found guilty of fraud. I believe the coaches are at least as guilty. I also don't know the law, but do believe that all those at state schools have violated their morality clause and should be fired. Private schools is a bit harder, but any private school founded on a religious platform would have their own standards, which should apply to the coaches as well.

Private religious schools have options consistent with their conduct codes. Forgiveness or accountability. Some may think it depends on how many games you've won for which lesson God would want you to learn.

Bogozags
10-25-2018, 07:46 AM
Good thing I buy my shoes through Orthofeet.com. I don't have to be a party to the Swoosh and the other denizens of the swamp.

https://www.orthofeet.com/

O/T, but over the past several months, I bought a pair of walking shoes and a pair of sandals. By far, they're the most comfortable shoes I've ever worn. I wore the sandals on vacation, walking 5+ miles a day at the theme parks we visited...Legoland and Disneyland. My feet felt great all the time.

They're not as stylish of course, but they're more than passable in the looks department. Prices are very reasonable.

Sounds like maybe your feet have some issues...could it be from PT’ing in those Army boots?

Bogozags
10-25-2018, 07:55 AM
Bill Self made a deal?

I posted that in another thread and from what I read, none of the news articles are even referencing his actions, so he probably never did it!

CDC84
10-25-2018, 08:07 AM
They don't call him Bill "Self" for nothing........

EEzag
10-25-2018, 09:15 AM
They don't call him Bill "Self" for nothing........

Is there any talk of this investigation spilling into NCAA football? Seems kind of odd that most (not all) of the programs under investigation don't have premier football programs...almost as if they were excluded from any investigation. Maybe just the conspiracy theorist in me. carry on.

strikenowhere
10-25-2018, 09:31 AM
Is there any talk of this investigation spilling into NCAA football? Seems kind of odd that most (not all) of the programs under investigation don't have premier football programs...almost as if they were excluded from any investigation. Maybe just the conspiracy theorist in me. carry on.

Certainly is possible, but basketball is a much less anonymous sport, player-wise. These blue-chip recruits have a decent shot at becoming a household name, with all that entails for the company that snags them in terms of branding/awareness/celebrity. With football, it seems like that would be much harder to cultivate, simply because the pool of potential recruits is so much larger and the chances of snagging a future star is much lower. That's my uninformed take.

ZagDad84
10-25-2018, 11:12 AM
My ignorance of the law is about to show.... hopefully someone can explain this to me...

What is the crime in offering a kid or his parents or guardian money to get him to attend a certain university on behalf of a shoe company? Does anyone actually believe the coaches didn't know or weren't a party to theses actions?

I understand the morality but for me it's the coaches involved that should be strung up... if Bill Self was indeed involved in the texting conversation as indicated then the President of the Kansas University and the board of trustees owe it to their institution to vilify and fire his lying, cheating azz.... all coaches from every institution involved should receive similar treatment.... that includes good ol Roy and his unbelievable I didn't know BS from the UNC academic scandal....

Just my opinion...

Go !! Zags!!!

From what I read, the entire conviction was based on the schools being the "Victim" in this case. The kids, parents, guardians, etc. took money from the shoe companies through their representatives, which they knew would make the kids no longer eligible to play college BB. Thus, the guilty parties "defrauded" the schools from what they thought was an eligible player when they offered the kid the scholarship.

Of course the only way this works is if the jury felt that the schools did not know that the kid was getting paid which obviously was not the case with Bill Self. The attorneys for the guilty parties felt no need to justify their actions because they knew the schools were involved, thus they did not defraud anybody they just broke some NCAA rules, but no state/federal laws. The prosecution only had a case for conviction for fraud if they convince the jury that somebody was defrauded. If they could make the jury believe the schools knew nothing about the money changing hands then there actually was a victim, the poor colleges who were deprived of the use of the services of the paid party.

You can bet the next trial will take an entirely different tack, seeing as how this trial went. I think the trial for the next group of parties is next April.

ZagDad

kitzbuel
10-25-2018, 11:16 AM
My ignorance of the law is about to show.... hopefully someone can explain this to me...

What is the crime in offering a kid or his parents or guardian money to get him to attend a certain university on behalf of a shoe company? Does anyone actually believe the coaches didn't know or weren't a party to theses actions?

I understand the morality but for me it's the coaches involved that should be strung up... if Bill Self was indeed involved in the texting conversation as indicated then the President of the Kansas University and the board of trustees owe it to their institution to vilify and fire his lying, cheating azz.... all coaches from every institution involved should receive similar treatment.... that includes good ol Roy and his unbelievable I didn't know BS from the UNC academic scandal....

Just my opinion...

Go !! Zags!!!

The crime is that they fraudulently provided money to the students and their families and assisted in concealing the money so the families could avoid having the income reported for scholarship consideration purposes which is violation of US Code.

Zagceo
10-25-2018, 11:29 AM
Paying losing coaches MILLIONS of dollars is much more of a fraud to Universities )

willandi
10-25-2018, 11:43 AM
Paying losing coaches MILLIONS of dollars is much more of a fraud to Universities )

I really agree with this. I think state schools should pay coaches in line with what they pay the Governor, who SHOULD be the highest paid state employee.
This would briefly give private schools an edge until they realized that they could also pay in line with that pay scale
Coaches would still coach, getting paid $250,000 os so plus endorsement deals (which would be closely scrutinized after this fiasco).
The additional money netted by the school could help fund athletics and/or go to the general student fund.

bartruff1
10-25-2018, 11:45 AM
The crime is that they fraudulently provided money to the students and their families and assisted in concealing the money so the families could avoid having the income reported for scholarship consideration purposes which is violation of US Code.

I don't believe they were ever charged with that....

kitzbuel
10-25-2018, 11:50 AM
I don't believe they were ever charged with that....

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/999006/download

"...making and concealing bribe payments to high school student-athletes and their families.."

strikenowhere
10-25-2018, 11:56 AM
I really agree with this. I think state schools should pay coaches in line with what they pay the Governor, who SHOULD be the highest paid state employee.
This would briefly give private schools an edge until they realized that they could also pay in line with that pay scale
Coaches would still coach, getting paid $250,000 os so plus endorsement deals (which would be closely scrutinized after this fiasco).
The additional money netted by the school could help fund athletics and/or go to the general student fund.

Don't the boosters pay most of the tab for high-paid coaches?

Zagceo
10-25-2018, 12:00 PM
remember when Lebron was driving a $50k hummer to high school as amateur baller.

good old days

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/14/sports/basketball-lebron-james-s-suv-prompts-an-investigation.html

kitzbuel
10-25-2018, 12:06 PM
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/999006/download

"...making and concealing bribe payments to high school student-athletes and their families.."

The US Code 18 (a) states "Whoever, knowing that the property involved in a financial transaction represents the proceeds of some form of unlawful activity, conducts or attempts to conduct such a financial transaction which in fact involves the proceeds of specified unlawful activity...shall be sentenced to a fine of not more than $500,000 or twice the value of the property involved in the transaction..."

Concealing income is an unlawful activity.

kitzbuel
10-25-2018, 12:07 PM
remember when Lebron was driving a $50k hummer to high school as amateur baller.

good old days

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/14/sports/basketball-lebron-james-s-suv-prompts-an-investigation.html

That was fine. He did not have any Federal requirement to report income because he did not go to college. None of what these agents did would be illegal if it was not done with a student-athlete.

Zagceo
10-25-2018, 12:13 PM
That was fine. He did not have any Federal requirement to report income because he did not go to college. None of what these agents did would be illegal if it was not done with a student-athlete.

doesn't sound to fine IMO


Clair Muscaro, the commissioner of the Ohio High School Athletic Association, said the athletic association was concerned about the source of James's vehicle. According to The Associated Press, Muscaro said:
''If he has violated any of the rules, he would have to give up his amateur eligibility from the time the car was delivered. We have not yet talked to the school. We'll see if they know anything about it. I think it is important for our member schools to know what's going on.''

kitzbuel
10-25-2018, 12:36 PM
doesn't sound to fine IMO

Unfortunately, law and what is right don't always intersect.

MDABE80
10-25-2018, 12:45 PM
Very very unethical and sometimes reflects the intent of the law. But often behavior is in the gray zone where no law covers the behavior. I guess we can't make laws for everything.

Zagceo
10-25-2018, 01:25 PM
file under strange timing


Adidas will partner to fund an initiative with the University of Louisville (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/97/louisville-cardinals) that is "focused on building ethical leadership in college athletics," the school said in a release on Wednesday.


A 10-year, $160 million extension of the agreement between the sportswear giant and the university kicked in July 1 after the school reviewed and reevaluated its relationship with Adidas after the FBI investigation was announced.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25077156/louisville-cardinals-adidas-partner-initiative-build-ethical-leadership-college-athletics

ZagDad84
10-25-2018, 01:49 PM
That was fine. He did not have any Federal requirement to report income because he did not go to college. None of what these agents did would be illegal if it was not done with a student-athlete.

Do not believe this is correct. There is a limit on how much a single person can gift another person and the Hummer would have far exceeded that amount. If the Hummer was a gift (title in LaBron's mom's name) then she would have a responsibility to report the difference between the gift maximum and the value of the Hummer. However, if the Hummer was only leased, then the value of the lease may not have exceeded the gift maximum.

An interesting side note for WA residents. If you are gifted a car, you cannot, later, gift the car to another individual. Any single vehicle can only be gifted once. The State of WA wants their cut on the second and all subsequent transactions.

ZagDad

bartruff1
10-25-2018, 02:00 PM
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/999006/download

"...making and concealing bribe payments to high school student-athletes and their families.."

Thanks Kitz...

kitzbuel
10-25-2018, 02:08 PM
Thanks Kitz...

I was interested in finding out exactly what it was that would bring the FBI in so had to go to the actual source. Interestingly enough, it is not the false statements that the families made that is being prosecuted, it is the facilitating the transactions (wire fraud) that is being prosecuted.

bigblahla
10-25-2018, 02:19 PM
Dealing with the Govt..... is always an uphill battle... it is not a prosecutors job to find justice, his job is to convict.......if the text that indicated Bill Self knew about the proposed transaction exists.... it can't be fraud, but it is collusion to cheat.... and that is beyond shameful and a mockery to college basketball, student athletes and honest coaches everywhere....

Just my opinion...

Go!! Zags!!!

CDC84
10-25-2018, 02:27 PM
Is there any talk of this investigation spilling into NCAA football? Seems kind of odd that most (not all) of the programs under investigation don't have premier football programs...almost as if they were excluded from any investigation. Maybe just the conspiracy theorist in me. carry on.

It is the general practice of many universities to throw basketball under the bus to protect football. You can count on that happening at universities ranging from Ohio State to USC. If anything shady is going on within the football program that might leak out, I am sure the athletic dept is more than happy to cooperate with any investigation related to the basketball operation in order to distract investigators of any type.....whether the NCAA or FBI. I know someone who advised Thad Matta about whether or not he should leave Xavier to go to OSU. He was told, "if there's a lot of prep talent in state, do so, but keep in mind that they will run you through the meat grinder to protect football.."

Bogozags
10-25-2018, 05:26 PM
Is there any talk of this investigation spilling into NCAA football? Seems kind of odd that most (not all) of the programs under investigation don't have premier football programs...almost as if they were excluded from any investigation. Maybe just the conspiracy theorist in me. carry on.


Here is a headline form ESPN that I found interesting...it is the second one this week!

John Emery, nation's top running back recruit, de-commits from Georgia

Why are these recruits leaving schools after their verbal commitment? I know this happens frequently in Football BUT it would seem there is something amiss here...if 5* basketball recruits are being courted then it only stands to reason that 5* football recruits might be courted as well...very interesting IMO

JPtheBeasta
10-25-2018, 05:54 PM
Here is a headline form ESPN that I found interesting...it is the second one this week!

John Emery, nation's top running back recruit, de-commits from Georgia

Why are these recruits leaving schools after their verbal commitment? I know this happens frequently in Football BUT it would seem there is something amiss here...if 5* basketball recruits are being courted then it only stands to reason that 5* football recruits might be courted as well...very interesting IMO

There was money allegedly involved in Cam Newton's recruitment in college.

bdmiller7
10-25-2018, 06:46 PM
Here is a headline form ESPN that I found interesting...it is the second one this week!

John Emery, nation's top running back recruit, de-commits from Georgia

Why are these recruits leaving schools after their verbal commitment? I know this happens frequently in Football BUT it would seem there is something amiss here...if 5* basketball recruits are being courted then it only stands to reason that 5* football recruits might be courted as well...very interesting IMO

In basketball when a kid commits the other schools stop recruiting in general. Not so in football. Coaches still recruit and kids even make official visits to other colleges even after they've verbally committed.

23dpg
10-25-2018, 07:51 PM
In basketball when a kid commits the other schools stop recruiting in general. Not so in football. Coaches still recruit and kids even make official visits to other colleges even after they've verbally committed.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3aVMifEWMZIc3EyXsh/giphy.gif

seacatfan
10-25-2018, 08:31 PM
Heck, in football they keep recruiting even after a kid signs a LOI. UW had a highly rated LB from Reno signed. There were some issues during the summer about whether he qualified academically or not. He eventually asked for a release from his LOI (due to family reasons and needing to be closer to home allegedly), it was granted, and ONE DAY LATER he committed to Alabama. That was FAST! Very fishy. Some said family pressured him into it. Tuscaloosa sure the hell ain't closer to Reno than Seattle is.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi4pKecoqPeAhUmHTQIHVFKBP4QFjABegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.seattletimes.com%2Fsports%2F uw-husky-football%2Fformer-5-star-ale-kaho-days-after-being-granted-his-release-from-uw-huskies-to-play-for-alabama%2F&usg=AOvVaw0HZtOiXEa26V7I9SkVLBHd

seacatfan
10-25-2018, 08:32 PM
Anyway I'm in agreement and asked about it either earlier in this thread or a different thread. However dirty men's hoops is, it's nothing compared to football. But sacred cows must not be touched.

willandi
10-25-2018, 09:14 PM
It is the general practice of many universities to throw basketball under the bus to protect football. You can count on that happening at universities ranging from Ohio State to USC. If anything shady is going on within the football program that might leak out, I am sure the athletic dept is more than happy to cooperate with any investigation related to the basketball operation in order to distract investigators of any type.....whether the NCAA or FBI. I know someone who advised Thad Matta about whether or not he should leave Xavier to go to OSU. He was told, "if there's a lot of prep talent in state, do so, but keep in mind that they will run you through the meat grinder to protect football.."

I fully believe that Gonzaga runs a spotlessly clean program. However...should an impropriety show up, will they change the football record?

willandi
10-29-2018, 01:20 PM
Good thing I buy my shoes through Orthofeet.com. I don't have to be a party to the Swoosh and the other denizens of the swamp.

https://www.orthofeet.com/

O/T, but over the past several months, I bought a pair of walking shoes and a pair of sandals. By far, they're the most comfortable shoes I've ever worn. I wore the sandals on vacation, walking 5+ miles a day at the theme parks we visited...Legoland and Disneyland. My feet felt great all the time.

They're not as stylish of course, but they're more than passable in the looks department. Prices are very reasonable.

What are the walking shoes? I have a pair of sandals that I have worn out in the 2 years I have had them...almost daily wear, year round...even in the snow.
I intend to replace them and want a pair of walkers as well. Together they should last 4+ years.

TexasZagFan
10-29-2018, 01:44 PM
What are the walking shoes? I have a pair of sandals that I have worn out in the 2 years I have had them...almost daily wear, year round...even in the snow.
I intend to replace them and want a pair of walkers as well. Together they should last 4+ years.

Here's the pair I ordered several months ago, the Monterey Bay black.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0946/7630/products/footwear-monterey-bay-black-1_600x.jpg?v=1538749616

Haven't worn them enough lately, too much rain over the past month. I've really warmed up to their "tieless system". It gives me a headstart when I'm in a competition with Big D.

willandi
10-29-2018, 01:59 PM
Here's the pair I ordered several months ago, the Monterey Bay black.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0946/7630/products/footwear-monterey-bay-black-1_600x.jpg?v=1538749616

Haven't worn them enough lately, too much rain over the past month. I've really warmed up to their "tieless system". It gives me a headstart when I'm in a competition with Big D.

Thanks.