PDA

View Full Version : So just how squeaky clean is Gonzaga athletics?



MontanaCoyote
06-20-2018, 01:18 PM
I’ll tell you just how squeaky clean we are and I’m pleased to report it!


I had special Montana license plates made to honor my favorite player’s all time NCAA win record.

The plate is really striking (maybe I can get my grandson to post a picture later today) and reads.

PK 137


Well how to get a replicate I’ve had made to Shem?

Called Gonzaga athletics and spoke with the director of the compliance department. He was really nice and entirely sympathetic. “Can you give me an address so I can send it to Shem?” “Sorry,” could be an NCAA compliance problem.” OK, can I send you the replicate and have you mail it to him.” “Sorry, but potential NCAA compliance problem.” OK, can I send it to you so you can give it to him this summer when he comes back to finish up some class work?” “Really sorry, but another possible NCAA compliance problem.”

That’s how squeaky clean We are. To get any cleaner would take antiseptics!

PS If anyone on this board knows when Shem will be on campus and would be willing to scout him out and give him the replicate plate I will be happy to send it to you. If anyone is willing and able you could send me an address via personal notification to assure privacy.

If this doesn’t work I’ll just wait until someone posts that Shem is back in town, motor on over
and give it to him myself. He shouldn’t be too hard to spot!

kitzbuel
06-20-2018, 01:58 PM
Not sure we can do that, might be a compliance issue.

[emoji16]

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

Zags_Fanatic
06-20-2018, 04:10 PM
I’ll tell you just how squeaky clean we are and I’m pleased to report it!


I had special Montana license plates made to honor my favorite player’s all time NCAA win record.

The plate is really striking (maybe I can get my grandson to post a picture later today) and reads.

PK 137


Well how to get a replicate I’ve had made to Shem?

Called Gonzaga athletics and spoke with the director of the compliance department. He was really nice and entirely sympathetic. “Can you give me an address so I can send it to Shem?” “Sorry,” could be an NCAA compliance problem.” OK, can I send you the replicate and have you mail it to him.” “Sorry, but potential NCAA compliance problem.” OK, can I send it to you so you can give it to him this summer when he comes back to finish up some class work?” “Really sorry, but another possible NCAA compliance problem.”

That’s how squeaky clean We are. To get any cleaner would take antiseptics!

PS If anyone on this board knows when Shem will be on campus and would be willing to scout him out and give him the replicate plate I will be happy to send it to you. If anyone is willing and able you could send me an address via personal notification to assure privacy.

If this doesn’t work I’ll just wait until someone posts that Shem is back in town, motor on over
and give it to him myself. He shouldn’t be too hard to spot!

Have your grandson send him a picture on twitter or instagram and offer to send it to him. Should be the quickest and most direct way for him to see it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Zaggin' it
06-20-2018, 07:10 PM
I know you're well-intentioned, but the clear issue from a compliance standpoint seems to be getting him this item. Why push it? You've been told by a compliance person that it's not allowable. While it might seem silly and minor, you can extrapolate out (quite a ways admittedly) the consequences for a program whose alumni provide things to past players. The very distant (admittedly) extension of this is "play for us and I'll get you a job/car/cash/vanity license plate/insert your extra benefit" 2 years after you're done playing. Silly, understably, but a rule is a rule. When you're told no, why keep looking for an angle?

GoZags
06-21-2018, 06:03 AM
I know you're well-intentioned, but the clear issue from a compliance standpoint seems to be getting him this item. Why push it? You've been told by a compliance person that it's not allowable. While it might seem silly and minor, you can extrapolate out (quite a ways admittedly) the consequences for a program whose alumni provide things to past players. The very distant (admittedly) extension of this is "play for us and I'll get you a job/car/cash/vanity license plate/insert your extra benefit" 2 years after you're done playing. Silly, understably, but a rule is a rule. When you're told no, why keep looking for an angle?

This ....

MontanaCoyote
06-21-2018, 06:23 AM
This ....

I understand this concern (critique) but while it would be a compliance problem for GU athletics to help me in any way, shape or form, (and I concur 100% with their position) I don’t think there’s a problem if a fan, like myself and acting entirely on his own, gives a player a picture of something, in this case a picture of a license plate.

I’m not trying to push the envelope here, just want Shem to have something to hang on the wall. If that IS a compliance problem, I won’t do it. Geese, just an old man trying to give a shout out to his favorite player.

GoZags
06-21-2018, 06:26 AM
I understand this concern (critique) but while it would be a compliance problem for GU athletics to help me in any way, shape or form, (and I concur 100% with their position) I don’t think there’s a problem if a fan, like myself and acting entirely on his own, gives a player a picture of something, in this case a picture of a license plate.

I’m not trying to push the envelope here, just want Shem to have something to hang on the wall. If that IS a compliance problem, I won’t do it. Geese, just an old man trying to give a shout out to his favorite player.

I've had some interactions with Shannon and Mike vis a vis compliance issues. I won't begin to say I "understand" everything that's going on. I just know I abided by what I was told. That being said ... sharing a picture on Instagram or Twitter doesn't seem to "me" to be an issue.

ZagaholicPodcast
06-21-2018, 06:28 AM
I understand this concern (critique) but while it would be a compliance problem for GU athletics to help me in any way, shape or form, (and I concur 100% with their position) I don’t think there’s a problem if a fan, like myself and acting entirely on his own, gives a player a picture of something, in this case a picture of a license plate.

I’m not trying to push the envelope here, just want Shem to have something to hang on the wall. If that IS a compliance problem, I won’t do it. Geese, just an old man trying to give a shout out to his favorite player.

Fret not, sir...the NCAA will be a relic of the past in the not-so-distant future, and you can have license plate parties for any and all.

scott257
06-21-2018, 07:15 AM
Just follow him on Twitter and ask him yourself if he would want a copy. Don’t go through the University. Any interaction with the school has privacy issues associated and since he is no longer a student athlete he can respond directly and the NCAA has nothing to say about it.

willandi
06-21-2018, 07:30 AM
Just follow him on Twitter and ask him yourself if he would want a copy. Don’t go through the University. Any interaction with the school has privacy issues associated and since he is no longer a student athlete he can respond directly and the NCAA has nothing to say about it.

That's what it seems like to me too. I understand that there could be boosters willing to pay off players after they have left, but once he has graduated, he is a private person. Bypassing all ties to the school should be OK. For such a small value item it should be obvious to anyone that it isn't paying for play...well anyone but the NCAA.

ZagaholicPodcast
06-21-2018, 07:34 AM
That's what it seems like to me too. I understand that there could be boosters willing to pay off players after they have left, but once he has graduated, he is a private person. Bypassing all ties to the school should be OK. For such a small value item it should be obvious to anyone that it isn't paying for play...well anyone but the NCAA.

Isn't this where someone inserts a 'secret double probation for Pacific' joke?

LongIslandZagFan
06-21-2018, 07:38 AM
Just going to throw this out there... but it IS a compliance issue. Well intentions aside. You are giving a player a "gift". Regardless of the value... it is a potential violation. Whether you go through the university or not. I get what you are trying to do... but just as easily someone could say they wanted to give him a far more expensive gift as a thank you, etc. That would look like a after the fact payment of the player. Yes, you are just trying to do something nice. But it still isn't good... and I actually get the NCAA stance.

TexasZagFan
06-21-2018, 07:42 AM
A bit O/T, but for Big D's Christmas present, I want to give him a couple of posters made from photos I took last summer of him with Rui and Zach, and have them autographed by the players. How, and if, can that be arranged? Naturally, I'll gladly pay for all shipping costs.

LongIslandZagFan
06-21-2018, 07:43 AM
That's what it seems like to me too. I understand that there could be boosters willing to pay off players after they have left, but once he has graduated, he is a private person. Bypassing all ties to the school should be OK. For such a small value item it should be obvious to anyone that it isn't paying for play...well anyone but the NCAA.

So... in that scenario... let's do this.

I am a booster (or fan) for Kentucky. I have a bunch of money and I want recruit A to go to play for the Wildcats. I approach the student athlete and tell them 1 year after graduation that I will pay them $100,000. Private person or not... the intent is there. THAT is why the rule is in place.

I know it sounds lame... but whether it is something small or big... it is a problem.

bartruff1
06-21-2018, 07:58 AM
Common sense is dead.....throughout our society.....you should never ask a question if you are not prepared to accept the answer....it is most always better to beg forgiveness than to seek permission... .

it would have been a simple matter to have just sent it to his club with "Attention Shem"...….

I can't image a gift of a nominal value is a problem...

soccerdud
06-21-2018, 08:01 AM
Isn't this where someone inserts a 'secret double probation for Pacific' joke?

who?

Zagceo
06-21-2018, 08:03 AM
and yet rules don’t apply to all.....Steve Ballmer could pay Reid Travis millions even though Ballmer attended Stanford.

willandi
06-21-2018, 08:07 AM
So... in that scenario... let's do this.

I am a booster (or fan) for Kentucky. I have a bunch of money and I want recruit A to go to play for the Wildcats. I approach the student athlete and tell them 1 year after graduation that I will pay them $100,000. Private person or not... the intent is there. THAT is why the rule is in place.

I know it sounds lame... but whether it is something small or big... it is a problem.

You are right! Could you loan me the $30 that the plate frame costs? I will accept the $100,000 and promise to pay back the $30.00

MontanaCoyote
06-21-2018, 08:10 AM
Thanks for all comments. I’ll find a way or two as suggested. Will “work” my grandson to get a picture of the plate posted.

LongIslandZagFan
06-21-2018, 08:14 AM
Common sense is dead.....throughout our society.....you should never ask a question if you are not prepared to accept the answer....it is most always better to beg forgiveness than to seek permission... .

it would have been a simple matter to have just sent it to his club with "Attention Shem"...….

I can't image a gift of a nominal value is a problem...

So if 10,000-15,000 people decide to give small "gifts" to former players at say Duke... you'd be OK with that?

Zagceo
06-21-2018, 08:19 AM
So if 10,000-15,000 people decide to give small "gifts" to former players at say Duke... you'd be OK with that?

say a former duke player writes a book.....can these 10,000 -15,000 Duke fans buy the book?

LongIslandZagFan
06-21-2018, 08:34 AM
say a former duke player writes a book.....can these 10,000 -15,000 Duke fans buy the book?

Completely different. That isn't a gift. That is him being paid for something he created.

Zagceo
06-21-2018, 08:39 AM
Completely different. That isn't a gift. That is him being paid for something he created.

the title could be....The struggle of Duke basketball...by I.M. Hubris.......1 page

LongIslandZagFan
06-21-2018, 08:46 AM
the title could be....The struggle of Duke basketball...by I.M. Hubris.......1 page

Again, not the same.

But if I am a recruit and I know if I go to school X that I will likely be showered with post-graduation gifts as opposed to school Y where I won't impacts that recruit's decision

Like it or not it is the rule and the rule is there for a reason. If you are going to allow even the small gifts then big schools have a huge advantage over smaller schools with less alums. Also, where exactly would the cut-off be? If any gift can be given after they graduate... is $100,000 OK.. what about $500,000? In the end whether it is $20 or $30,000 in value... it is still a violation.

soccerdud
06-21-2018, 08:57 AM
it's generally best to tread carefully when dealing with an unclear rule enforced by idiots.

willandi
06-21-2018, 09:04 AM
Again, not the same.

But if I am a recruit and I know if I go to school X that I will likely be showered with post-graduation gifts as opposed to school Y where I won't impacts that recruit's decision

Like it or not it is the rule and the rule is there for a reason. If you are going to allow even the small gifts then big schools have a huge advantage over smaller schools with less alums. Also, where exactly would the cut-off be? If any gift can be given after they graduate... is $100,000 OK.. what about $500,000? In the end whether it is $20 or $30,000 in value... it is still a violation.

I know the point you are making, but how many players, after graduation, get a job locally at, I am assuming, a higher than normal starting pay, with the justification that people will come in to buy a car from XXXX? It is the same as a gift, even though the individual does have to show up and go through the motions.

bartruff1
06-21-2018, 09:47 AM
So if 10,000-15,000 people decide to give small "gifts" to former players at say Duke... you'd be OK with that?

Of course not.... and that would be a obvious attempt to game the system..... and involving thousands.... would be easy to identify ....good grief...zero tolerance is for morons ...going to Gonzaga you should know you will never have to pay for a beer in Spokane bar....:cheers:

GrizZAG
06-21-2018, 10:08 PM
MT Coyote...
How about drafting a short letter to the NCAA compliance enforcement and lay it out that Shem was your favorite player and you would like to send him this small item asking for their approval before hand? Go with the response. If they say it could be a violation but they are ambiguous in their response, bail out and call it a day.

MileHigh
06-22-2018, 05:08 AM
I have nor combed the NCAA rulebook recently, but I doubt the NCAA has any say so in what transpires between a booster and a former student athlete. If that were the case, anyone that ever bought at ticket to a Gonzaga game wouldnt be able to hire a former player, buy a former player a drink, or rent a former player a home. That would mean Quinn Snyder (fits definition of Duke booster) cannot provide any benefits to Grayson Allen, and he is his new boss!

I could see where a school would be prohibited from doing anything to give a former player an extra benefit, but it seems keeping private citizens from interacting with one another in whatever way they please is borderline unconstitutional

CDC84
06-22-2018, 10:07 AM
Some pretty reputable college basketball commentators feel that the NCAA at times oversteps their boundaries when it comes to punishing basketball programs for the actions of players whose eligibility has expired. A classic case was Fresno State in the 90's who got nailed with an academic fraud charge by the NCAA for two seniors who, one month after their final season had ended, "hired" a couple of Fresno State students (completely outside the athletics program) to write papers for them so they could head off to the camps in preparation for the NBA draft. The NCAA came down on Fresno State really hard......almost as though the kids were having academic support tutors write papers for them as juniors at the end of the fall semester. While they were playing b-ball.

At what point can a basketball program be held or not held responsible for the actions regarding their ex-student athletes? The moment the basketball season ended, those 2 student-athletes had zero athletic eligibility left. They couldn't play anymore. They pursued fraudulent assistance from students who were no way connected to the athletics program. It seems to me to be a university issue involving 2 students who cheated and 2 other students who assisted with the cheating. All four guys should have been sent packing from Fresno State by FSU's academic administration. Why does the NCAA need to be in there?? The kids had no more playing eligibility left.

It just seems like they have better things to do. I know there are quite a few college basketball pundits who also don't like the NCAA having "their own" academic eligibility requirements. Again, that's university matter with the admissions process and the school's administration. Why does the NCAA need to be involve. If a school says the kid has been admitted, he should be able to play. The NCAA doesn't need their own rules. I understand the NCAA double checking to see that a kid didn't attend a phony prep school, if the kid didn't cheat on a number of exams if they get tips, etc. In truth, the university should also be looking into these matter before they admit a student-athlete, but some pretty reputable writers strongly feel that the NCAA shouldn't be "acting" like a university with their own set of academic requirements. Again, that's the college's job. It just confuses things.

willandi
06-22-2018, 11:09 AM
Some pretty reputable college basketball commentators feel that the NCAA at times oversteps their boundaries when it comes to punishing basketball programs for the actions of players whose eligibility has expired. A classic case was Fresno State in the 90's who got nailed with an academic fraud charge by the NCAA for two seniors who, one month after their final season had ended, "hired" a couple of Fresno State students (completely outside the athletics program) to write papers for them so they could head off to the camps in preparation for the NBA draft. The NCAA came down on Fresno State really hard......almost as though the kids were having academic support tutors write papers for them as juniors at the end of the fall semester. While they were playing b-ball.

At what point can a basketball program be held or not held responsible for the actions regarding their ex-student athletes? The moment the basketball season ended, those 2 student-athletes had zero athletic eligibility left. They couldn't play anymore. They pursued fraudulent assistance from students who were no way connected to the athletics program. It seems to me to be a university issue involving 2 students who cheated and 2 other students who assisted with the cheating. All four guys should have been sent packing from Fresno State by FSU's academic administration. Why does the NCAA need to be in there?? The kids had no more playing eligibility left.

It just seems like they have better things to do. I know there are quite a few college basketball pundits who also don't like the NCAA having "their own" academic eligibility requirements. Again, that's university matter with the admissions process and the school's administration. Why does the NCAA need to be involve. If a school says the kid has been admitted, he should be able to play. The NCAA doesn't need their own rules. I understand the NCAA double checking to see that a kid didn't attend a phony prep school, if the kid didn't cheat on a number of exams if they get tips, etc. In truth, the university should also be looking into these matter before they admit a student-athlete, but some pretty reputable writers strongly feel that the NCAA shouldn't be "acting" like a university with their own set of academic requirements. Again, that's the college's job. It just confuses things.

Didn't the NCAA admit that they have no jurisdiction with the UNC decision (aside from Pacific, of course).

bdmiller7
06-22-2018, 12:00 PM
Didn't the NCAA admit that they have no jurisdiction with the UNC decision (aside from Pacific, of course).

It wasn't a violation at UNC because those b.s. courses were available to all students. By that standard all MTCoyote has to do to be in compliance is make a copy of the plate available to all former GU students. Then it wouldn't be a perk for basketball players.

Shanachie
06-22-2018, 12:51 PM
I have nor combed the NCAA rulebook recently, but I doubt the NCAA has any say so in what transpires between a booster and a former student athlete. If that were the case, anyone that ever bought at ticket to a Gonzaga game wouldnt be able to hire a former player, buy a former player a drink, or rent a former player a home. That would mean Quinn Snyder (fits definition of Duke booster) cannot provide any benefits to Grayson Allen, and he is his new boss!

I could see where a school would be prohibited from doing anything to give a former player an extra benefit, but it seems keeping private citizens from interacting with one another in whatever way they please is borderline unconstitutional

I don't think they would likely care about a picture frame (although you never know with the NCAA), but they definitely care what transpires between boosters and former student athletes (rightly so, in my view). This is from gozags.com (http://www.gozags.com/compliance/compliance-topics.html):


Weekly Compliance Topic #7 (Mar. 23, 2005)
This week's compliance topic concerns benefits to former student-athletes. More specifically, the NCAA states that just because an athlete has exhausted his or her eligibility, he or she is not exempt from the extra benefit rule. In other words, after a student-athlete plays the last game as a senior, the athletic department and its boosters are not allowed to reward these former athletes with additional benefits even years later. The NCAA calls this the "cradle to grave" rule, and it is in place because coaches could use post-eligibility rewards as a means of recruiting top athletes, explaining that they cannot receive such benefits while a student-athlete but promising such gifts later.

Another institution was recently punished by the NCAA when it was discovered that a coach provided a free trip to six former student-athletes as a reward for their outstanding careers. Not only did each athlete have to donate the cost of the trip to a charity of their choice, approximately $730, but the institution lost a scholarship in that sport for the 2004-05 season. Further, the head coach was restricted from any off-campus recruiting activities.

soccerdud
06-22-2018, 06:45 PM
oooh, here's a fun one: https://theathletic.com/402663/2018/06/22/the-entirely-random-and-odd-story-of-dick-vitales-ncaa-violation-at-michigan-state/

Mantua
06-22-2018, 06:58 PM
The NCAA rules actually afford some protection to the athletes. If fans were allowed to give small gifts of appreciation and caring, some players would be unimaginably inconvenienced. Most fans have the best of intentions, but consider the exception applied on a large scale. Twitter and instagram are great ways to communicate your appreciation to past players because they are under no obligation to respond.