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View Full Version : Which WCC teams do we not play twice?



Kong-Kool-Aid
05-23-2018, 07:10 AM
As per the new conference rules, who is it we don't play twice? Do we lose our home game against them or they lose theirs against us?

mgadfly
05-23-2018, 07:49 AM
As per the new conference rules, who is it we don't play twice? Do we lose our home game against them or they lose theirs against us?

I thought I read that we used to play 9teams twice for 18 games. Now we will play 7 teams twice and two teams once for 16 games. One of the single games at home, one on the road.

There is some indication that it’d be Team1 (the best from prior year) not playing teams from the bottom twice. But I never saw anything showing the rules exactly. Maybe someone else did.

exclusivelee
05-23-2018, 07:51 AM
As per the new conference rules, who is it we don't play twice? Do we lose our home game against them or they lose theirs against us?Matchups to be determined, but Zags will play every WCC squad at least once. 8 games at home & 8 on the road. 7 home & away, 1 home, 1 away.

For instance, Gonzaga's WCC schedule could shake out like this:

BYU: H&A
LMU: A
Pacific: H&A
Pepperdine: H&A
Portland: H
Saint Mary's: H&A
San Diego: H&A
San Francisco: H&A
Santa Clara: H&A
Total: 8 H & 8 A = 16

El Zag
05-23-2018, 08:38 AM
http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Kong-Kool-Aid http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?p=1389593#post1389593)
As per the new conference rules, who is it we don't play twice? Do we lose our home game against them or they lose theirs against us?

Is this to assume that we desire to play lesser competition in order for "not lose ball" to be successful (if there is such a thing as successfully not losing)? Is the goal to "not lose" ? If it is then you have already lost . You play to win the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I

bartruff1
05-23-2018, 08:39 AM
I favor a complete Conference schedule...

IMHO the best way to determine the Conference Championship.... since any team can beat any other team in any game .....

Don't bother yourself telling me about RPI.....I don't give a fig about RPI.....

And I am aware that Few doesn't give a fig about what I think....

I am just offering a opinion .. I have heard all the opinions on this subject .

realtydog
05-23-2018, 09:09 AM
I don't give a fig about RPI..

appears that you and Randy Bennett have something in common

Zagdawg
05-23-2018, 09:12 AM
I on the other hand care about our RPI and the impact it has with the dance -- so I am very happy we are dropping 2 of the bottom games and adding in 2 good games -- maybe Texas A&M is one of the replacements -- nice to see the league listening to reason and our program moving forward.

Since it is difficult to tell how a team may do in the upcoming year-- I would expect the decision on which 2 games to lose would be based upon the previous years results.

bdmiller7
05-23-2018, 09:26 AM
I would guess Portland and Pepperdine we would only play once since they were the bottom 2 in the conference last year.

ZagsObserver
05-23-2018, 09:40 AM
I on the other hand care about our RPI and the impact it has with the dance -- so I am very happy we are dropping 2 of the bottom games and adding in 2 good games -- maybe Texas A&M is one of the replacements -- nice to see the league listening to reason and our program moving forward.

Since it is difficult to tell how a team may do in the upcoming year-- I would expect the decision on which 2 games to lose would be based upon the previous years results.

This.

On a side note, Pepperdine will be improved next year but they will also be very young. I expect that they will switch places with LMU as one of the bottom two teams the following year.

bartruff1
05-23-2018, 10:58 AM
appears that you and Randy Bennett have something in common

Well, we are both short, fat and bald and will never have to sell real estate...;)

JPtheBeasta
05-23-2018, 11:03 AM
http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Kong-Kool-Aid http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?p=1389593#post1389593)
As per the new conference rules, who is it we don't play twice? Do we lose our home game against them or they lose theirs against us?

Is this to assume that we desire to play lesser competition in order for "not lose ball" to be successful (if there is such a thing as successfully not losing)? Is the goal to "not lose" ? If it is then you have already lost . You play to win the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I

I though the rationale was to avoid playing as many RPI-crushing games against the bottom feeders of the conference.

JAGzag
05-23-2018, 11:12 AM
I though the rationale was to avoid playing as many RPI-crushing games against the bottom feeders of the conference.

A total kick in the pants would be if GU only played SMC once during the regular season! Maybe that would further encourage SMC to work a better OCC schedule.

bartruff1
05-23-2018, 11:16 AM
I though the rationale was to avoid playing as many RPI-crushing games against the bottom feeders of the conference.

JP I do not see how eliminating 6 marque games will help the Conference get better....Gonzaga, BYU and the Gaels are important games not only against each other...... but for the teams that need the revenue and exposure to improve...

VinnyZag
05-23-2018, 11:21 AM
This story on The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/346679/2018/05/10/after-flirting-with-the-mountain-west-gonzaga-got-what-it-wanted-and-the-pieces-are-in-place-for-a-big-year/) seems to indicate that upper-division WCC teams will play each other twice every season.


The solutions the league came up with include: cutting the WCC regular-season schedule from 18 to 16 games, with the upper division teams (as determined by multiyear RPI numbers, the previous year’s conference tournament results and a spring head coaches’ survey) playing each other more often; giving the top two teams a double-bye into the semifinals of the conference tournament, to avoid more matchups and potential upsets against bottom-feeders; and beginning in 2019-20, requiring every team to play annually in an in-season exempt tournament.

JPtheBeasta
05-23-2018, 11:33 AM
JP I do not see how eliminating 6 marque games will help the Conference get better....Gonzaga, BYU and the Gaels are important games not only against each other...... but for the teams that need the revenue and exposure to improve...

I get your points but I like the idea of trying this new format; if it doesn't work out, switching back seems fairly easy to do. The new format gives teams even more motivation to get better in order to avoid the penalty of not playing GU et al (and consequently losing exposure and revenue). It seems a bit like leagues that have two tiers and if you are in the bottom tier you have to play your way up into the better one (I think some professional leagues in Europe work this way). In this new WCC format, the bottom teams theoretically could end up with better records because they are only playing SMC, BYU and GU once. It might actually improve overall conference RPI (which I know you aren't concerned about).

Selfishly, it also gives GU more flexibility with its OOC schedule.

TravelinZag
05-23-2018, 04:01 PM
Good intention, but without an early announcement of conference schedule, there is scant opportunity to schedule quality opposition. Schedule good opponent, home or away, or play fewer games. An unfilled away game cuts costs, an unfilled home game costs nothing except concessions revenue, which has to be peanuts. Would prefer 2 replacement games against teams with RPI above 175 (average), but if not, team can only be hurt, win or lose, against losers.

Go Zags! Only schedule free slots against winners.

jpn17
05-23-2018, 11:41 PM
JP I do not see how eliminating 6 marque games will help the Conference get better....Gonzaga, BYU and the Gaels are important games not only against each other...... but for the teams that need the revenue and exposure to improve...

Those teams have had 7 years to improve from revenue and exposure from playing those 3 teams and 10+ years for SMC and GU and it's just not happening. If they want to continue to guarantee that they host GU and SMC every year then the onus is on them to not finish in the bottom 2 spots of the conference. In the WCC that's not asking a whole lot.

bartruff1
05-24-2018, 12:31 AM
It only took Gonzaga about 40 years .....

kitzbuel
05-24-2018, 01:42 AM
It only took Gonzaga about 40 years .....And Gonzaga did it without a sugar daddy.

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thespywhozaggedme
05-24-2018, 05:25 AM
And Gonzaga did it without a sugar daddy.

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Boom! Mic drop

bartruff1
05-24-2018, 05:59 AM
And Gonzaga did it without a sugar daddy.

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I believe they did, perhaps the most important one being Seattle University.......and someone had to pay to have the toilets removed from the locker room after 1999....

thespywhozaggedme
05-24-2018, 06:05 AM
I believe they did, perhaps the most important one being Seattle University.......and someone had to pay to have the toilets removed from the locker room after 1999....

SU was Gonzagas sugar daddy?

JPtheBeasta
05-24-2018, 09:06 AM
I believe they did, perhaps the most important one being Seattle University.......and someone had to pay to have the toilets removed from the locker room after 1999....

That sounds like a great story. What happened?

bartruff1
05-24-2018, 10:14 AM
For decades Gonzaga was a welfare queen, a bottom feeder if you prefer, and SU.... beginning with the O'Brian boys.... was the hot basketball ticket in the Northwest....... and during the Baylor and Charlie Brown year's one of the hottest tickets in the country.... and yet... they continued to play Gonzaga twice a year.....when Gonzaga couldn't draw flies.... IMHO that is a sugar daddy....
,
I couldn't believe it when the WCC was willing to admit Gonzaga.....

Of course there were and are the sugar daddies of the more conventional type like Harry Magnuson, the McCarthy Family, Pat Kilkenny, and the fans that pay for the charter and build the other athletic facilities..... used to aid the program....."You didn't build this yourself" as a wise man once said...

I was kidding about the toilets .... they are still there even if they are not necessary.... :)

thespywhozaggedme
05-24-2018, 10:35 AM
For decades Gonzaga was a welfare queen, a bottom feeder if you prefer, and SU.... beginning with the O'Brian boys.... was the hot basketball ticket in the Northwest....... and during the Baylor and Charlie Brown year's one of the hottest tickets in the country.... and yet... they continued to play Gonzaga twice a year.....when Gonzaga couldn't draw flies.... IMHO that is a sugar daddy....
,
I couldn't believe it when the WCC was willing to admit Gonzaga.....

Of course there were and are the sugar daddies of the more conventional type like Harry Magnuson, the McCarthy Family, Pat Kilkenny, and the fans that pay for the charter and build the other athletic facilities..... used to aid the program....."You didn't build this yourself" as a wise man once said...

I was kidding about the toilets .... they are still there even if they are not necessary.... :)

So you think that's equivalent to the bottom feeders of our conference doing absolutely nothing whatsoever to improve their program and us supporting them for the past 15 years?

ZagsObserver
05-24-2018, 10:45 AM
For decades Gonzaga was a welfare queen, a bottom feeder if you prefer, and SU.... beginning with the O'Brian boys.... was the hot basketball ticket in the Northwest....... and during the Baylor and Charlie Brown year's one of the hottest tickets in the country.... and yet... they continued to play Gonzaga twice a year.....when Gonzaga couldn't draw flies.... IMHO that is a sugar daddy....
,
I couldn't believe it when the WCC was willing to admit Gonzaga.....

Of course there were and are the sugar daddies of the more conventional type like Harry Magnuson, the McCarthy Family, Pat Kilkenny, and the fans that pay for the charter and build the other athletic facilities..... used to aid the program....."You didn't build this yourself" as a wise man once said...

I was kidding about the toilets .... they are still there even if they are not necessary.... :)

Gonzaga was not terrible back then.

The dollars did not flow back then as they do now.

There was no such thing as an rpi and you were penalized for poor wins as you are today.

Gonzaga wouldn’t be where it is today without continual forward thinking and change as the competitive environment changes. You can’t expect to live off of saving account interest like you used. Sure it worked before (perhaps), but it doesn’t work now.

bartruff1
05-24-2018, 11:34 AM
Well the toilets are still there...and I haven't had a saving account for 65 years...one of the most admirable traits of a successful person is that he hasn't forgotten where he came from and who helped him along the way... that doesn't diminish his accomplishment....now back to the revised scheduling...

Robzagnut
05-24-2018, 01:52 PM
I favor a complete Conference schedule...

IMHO the best way to determine the Conference Championship.... since any team can beat any other team in any game .....

Don't bother yourself telling me about RPI.....I don't give a fig about RPI.....

And I am aware that Few doesn't give a fig about what I think....

I am just offering a opinion .. I have heard all the opinions on this subject .


No thank you. I want the marque game in the middle of the conference schedule to come back. Much better than playing two RPI sucking, boring to watch, soul draining games. Remember these games in the middle of the conference schedule?

09-10 - at Memphis
10-11 - Memphis
11-12 - at Xavier
12-13 - at Butler, (ESPN College Gameday)
13-14 - at Memphis, (ESPN College Gameday)

Can't understand why anyone would want to watch GU play Pepperdine, SD, Santa Clara, SF or Pacific than any of the teams listed above. I'm thinking the players and coaches would prefer that too.

Zagceo
05-25-2018, 07:42 AM
Gonzaga with major league resources playing in a minor league conference is a recipe for trouble.

Less games and more money for Gonzaga is only gonna widen the gap IMO.

Coach Crazy
05-25-2018, 07:50 AM
Well the toilets are still there...and I haven't had a saving account for 65 years...one of the most admirable traits of a successful person is that he hasn't forgotten where he came from and who helped him along the way... that doesn't diminish his accomplishment....now back to the revised scheduling...

You honor those people by being better. Playing a complete conference schedule is a detriment to the progress of GU and honoring those who did so much to make what is happening now, possible. The WCC has nothing to do with that. If I put one of your children in the ocean and strapped an anvil around their neck, and then told them to swim hundreds of miles to shore...how fast would you get that anvil off of them? Pretty quick, right? I want to get the anvil off of GU. I would hope you do, too.

Maybe a false sense of nostalgia is more important than success, for you?

Bogozags
05-25-2018, 01:40 PM
No thank you. I want the marque game in the middle of the conference schedule to come back. Much better than playing two RPI sucking, boring to watch, soul draining games. Remember these games in the middle of the conference schedule?

09-10 - at Memphis
10-11 - Memphis
11-12 - at Xavier
12-13 - at Butler, (ESPN College Gameday)
13-14 - at Memphis, (ESPN College Gameday)

Can't understand why anyone would want to watch GU play Pepperdine, SD, Santa Clara, SF or Pacific than any of the teams listed above. I'm thinking the players and coaches would prefer that too.


I can agree that playing in the WCC is not where we want to be; however, it is where we are and I for one, enjoyed watching every conference game and now with this new schedule we should be able to once again play games with an OOC opponent. I don't like this type of schedule. I would rather have two divisions where in our division we play each team H & H (8 games) and rotate games with the other division playing H & H (five games) every other year for a 18 game schedule. This type of schedule would allow GU to play two more OOC games each season BUT I never got a call from the league office...lol

sittingon50
05-29-2018, 08:29 PM
Rather than start a new thread thought I would tack this "schedule news" on here. Interesting take by Conf. USA:


https://deadspin.com/conference-usa-is-completely-revamping-its-conference-s-1826386373


(courtesy of Stonehouse on the Portland board)

sittingon50
05-29-2018, 08:54 PM
And apparently Pac-12 looking at scheduling changes also:


https://frshoopz.com/cbb/rothstein-pac-12-exploring-new-methods-for-conference-scheduling/



(thanks to MBAGAEL on SMC board)

kitzbuel
05-30-2018, 03:48 AM
And apparently Pac-12 looking at scheduling changes also:


https://frshoopz.com/cbb/rothstein-pac-12-exploring-new-methods-for-conference-scheduling/



(thanks to MBAGAEL on SMC board)More on the PAC 12.

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/pascoe/pac--considering-hybrid--game-basketball-schedule-to-maximize/article_31fbd672-4e6a-11e8-a4b6-9700a38a1b70.html

Looks like the age of regular season conference champs is on the decline. The status of haves and have nots is extending beyond conference affiliation, but will occur inside conferences as well.

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TexasZagFan
05-30-2018, 04:51 AM
More on the PAC 12.

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/pascoe/pac--considering-hybrid--game-basketball-schedule-to-maximize/article_31fbd672-4e6a-11e8-a4b6-9700a38a1b70.html

Looks like the age of regular season conference champs is on the decline. The status of haves and have nots is extending beyond conference affiliation, but will occur inside conferences as well.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

Hybrid schedules such as those discussed IMO make a league more attractive to cable networks.

KStyles
05-31-2018, 09:14 AM
As per the new conference rules, who is it we don't play twice? Do we lose our home game against them or they lose theirs against us?


Gonzaga
Home/Road: BYU, LMU, Pacific, Saint Mary’s, San Diego, San Francisco, Santa Clara
Home: Pepperdine
Road: Portland

http://www.wccsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/053118aaa.html

thebigsmoove
05-31-2018, 10:18 AM
So weird they announced this like 2+ months before last year. I wonder if our new agreement influenced that.

KStyles
05-31-2018, 10:42 AM
So weird they announced this like 2+ months before last year. I wonder if our new agreement influenced that.


This wasn't the schedule announcement. This was just an announcement of the matchups (which wasn't needed last year as playing every other team both home & away was a given).

"Specific dates and times for each game will be announced later this summer after the conference’s league schedule is finalized. "

sittingon50
05-31-2018, 11:11 AM
A little different than what I was expecting (for the teams not named GU).